Never thought I would say this, but.........

[jimmoyer]

I am beginning to believe it's time for a change to the Pitt Basketball program at the top. Jamie has been a great coach but all good things must come to an end. This program needs new life, new leadership and new blood. Jamie will find a spot in the Nation that will allow him to flourish and continue to be a great coach, but it's time for Pitt to move on. With all of the changes happening to our University, on the Football front and within the administration, it mike make the most sense to begin a new era of Pitt Basketball and that will require new leadership.
I don't say this as a condemnation of Jamie, because I do still believe he has the ability to be successful at another program. It just comes a time when a change is needed and the writing is on the wall. With all of the changes happening to Pitt, the move to the ACC and a fresh new face in football, new marketing look, a new hoops coach seems like a logical choice.
I realize this is very controversial, but unless something major happens to Jamie's current Team, it is becoming very clear that he has lost the ability to get these players to play to his system. Maybe it's time to change the system, the coaching and the players and move on. All programs go through these transformations and it appear to be Pitts time to change.
Just my humble opinion.

 

[UPitt '89]

Pitt can't move on, even if they wanted to.

They can't pay a $15+ million buyout to Dixon and still be able to afford a new top-quality coach.

They won't be able to afford to buyout the remainder of Dixon's contract until at least around 2019 when the buyout will be half of what it is now.

The only way that Pitt has a different HC before 2019 is if Dixon leaves on his own accord. That's the only way.

 

[bobfree]

Ya they can't you have to hope tcu or maybe Stanford makes a run at him.

But it's my opinion that they indeed will have to make a switch. He looked so unnerved last night I actually felt bad for him.

 

[ClarkLotTgate]

Umm unless one of us is on the board of trustees (which would certainly be something wouldn't it?) we have no idea what Pitt can do in terms of $.

We aren't Maryland strapped for cash... If Pitt wanted to pay him 15 or something they could do it, u don't like cut a check for the whole thing... it's paid over a long period, and usually things like accepting other positions ties into it.

saying pitt can't afford something is as dumb as people talking about nutting's wallet.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

I don't think its time to move on just yet, but I do think the administration needs to force him to rebuild his staff. Put decent money on the table to get higher level assistants. I don't think Jamie is getting the support he needs from his staff and its showing. I'm not sure if the current lack of talent on his staff is related to the previous administration's tendency to do things on the cheap or poor talent evaluation.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Ya they can't you have to hope tcu or maybe Stanford makes a run at him.

But it's my opinion that they indeed will have to make a switch. He looked so unnerved last night I actually felt bad for him.

Hard to bang your head against a wall for 3 years trying to reach players, and have them play so selfishly and lazily on defense.

 

[cabe23]

Ya they can't you have to hope tcu or maybe Stanford makes a run at him.

But it's my opinion that they indeed will have to make a switch. He looked so unnerved last night I actually felt bad for him.

I have argued about this in the past, but not anymore. It pains me to say it because I like Jamie but it seems like we're in a rut and I don't think he'll get out of it. He hasn't recruited that we'll for awhile, the staff sucks, the kid's seem to be tuning him out, our D is a joke and the attendance is down. I don't see how he can be fired though. It's not just the buyout, it's all the backlash Barnes would get if he doesn't have a really good replacement who does well. However, your scenario is the one that could work for both parties. He'd fit really well at Stanford. TCU sucks but is his Alma mater. Neither have an opening at the moment but probably will. I don't think Dixon is a bad coach I think things have gotten stale here. You can tell criticism gets to him, just look at how defensive he is about scheduling. Maybe he will end up thinking it's time for a change and move on. Regardless, I feel the program is stagnating so hopefully some kind of changes are made.

 

[PittPoker]

Pitt can't move on, even if they wanted to.


They won't be able to afford to buyout the remainder of Dixon's contract until at least around 2019 when the buyout will be half of what it is now.

Can they even afford that? Seriously.

 

[MrGee]

Hard to bang your head against a wall for 3 years trying to reach players, and have them play so selfishly and lazily on defense.

He recruited them and hasn't developed them---he's the coach

 

[PittPoker]

He recruited them and hasn't developed them---he's the coach

Exactly. These kids were brought in and in year 3 they are not playing hard and tuning the coaches out, whose fault is that?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Pitt can't move on, even if they wanted to.

They can't pay a $15+ million buyout to Dixon and still be able to afford a new top-quality coach.

They won't be able to afford to buyout the remainder of Dixon's contract until at least around 2019 when the buyout will be half of what it is now.

The only way that Pitt has a different HC before 2019 is if Dixon leaves on his own accord. That's the only way.

Buyouts are rarely: Years left on contact multuplied by annual salary forfeited. It could he structured that way, but probably isn't. Buyouts are usually some, set predetermined figure. Its false to say we just pay him what he would have made.

 

[PittPhantoms]

I think Jamie will be coach for a very long time. He just is going through a very rough period.

Matt wrote something in the pay side a couple weeks back that really scares me but I just don't see any moving on etc...

Pitt may be able to scrape together the money but it doesn't seem well spent to do so.

 

[JD1976]

Jamie is going through a trying period with this program, but are we really talking about firing him?? Come on people. It's ludicrous. The program by all accounts is clean, kids do well in the classroom and NEWSFLASH Pitt is not a blue blood or Georgia or Nebraska football that can fire a coach with a high winning %. If Pitt finds its way into the NCAAs, which I think they will that will be 11 NCAAs, 1 NIT and 1 CBI in 13 years. I'm not a Jamie is God guy, but let's be realistic here. He certainly needs to be pressured by the administration, but it's completely moronic to suggest he should be let go.

 

[PittPoker]

Jamie is going through a trying period with this program, but are we really talking about firing him?? Come on people. It's ludicrous. The program by all accounts is clean, kids do well in the classroom and NEWSFLASH Pitt is not a blue blood or Georgia or Nebraska football that can fire a coach with a high winning %. If Pitt finds its way into the NCAAs, which I think they will that will be 11 NCAAs, 1 NIT and 1 CBI in 13 years. I'm not a Jamie is God guy, but let's be realistic here. He certainly needs to be pressured by the administration, but it's completely moronic to suggest he should be let go.

JD, what gives you any belief we will finish strong and make the NCAA's? Did you watch the game last night? We struggled and it took 2 OT's to beat a 1 win team in conference AT HOME!!! If Wakes makes a few more FT's we lose in regulation. Look we all hope Pitt all of a sudden turns it around but I think there is some turmoil behind the scenes with a few guys and the effort by some has been awful.

I honestly don't see a game left they can win.

 

[bobfree]

Hard to bang your head against a wall for 3 years trying to reach players, and have them play so selfishly and lazily on defense.

Did he inherit these players?

Or did select, scout, recruit, attempt to to develop, coach these players?

He isn't coaching Derry High school.

He's had ample time to reach these guys or recruit over them.

He has no one to blame for this teams lack of skill or desire than himself and his staff.

 

[PittPoker]

Did he inherit these players?

Or did select, scout, recruit, attempt to to develop, coach these players?

He isn't coaching Derry High school.

He's had ample time to reach these guys or recruit over them.

He has no one to blame for this teams lack of skill or desire than himself and his staff.

EXACTLY!!!

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

He recruited them and hasn't developed them---he's the coach

Thank you for your mastery of the obvious.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Did he inherit these players?

Or did select, scout, recruit, attempt to to develop, coach these players?

He isn't coaching Derry High school.

He's had ample time to reach these guys or recruit over them.

He has no one to blame for this teams lack of skill or desire than himself and his staff.

Likewise, thank you for restating the obvious.

 

[JD1976]

JD, what gives you any belief we will finish strong and make the NCAA's? Did you watch the game last night? We struggled and it took 2 OT's to beat a 1 win team in conference AT HOME!!! If Wakes makes a few more FT's we lose in regulation. Look we all hope Pitt all of a sudden turns it around but I think there is some turmoil behind the scenes with a few guys and the effort by some has been awful.

I honestly don't see a game left they can win.

Even if they don't make the NCAA's this year, I still wouldn't advocate moving on. A stern set of goals and expectations should absolutely be placed on him, including his coaching staff make up, one way or another after this year.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Hey I declared in the gamethread if Pitt would have lost...and Artis and Young kept getting PT..I was on the fire Dixon bandwagon.

But...we didn't, and they did end up contributing towards that. (even if their play caused the anguish).

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

I am beginning to believe it's time for a change to the Pitt Basketball program at the top. Jamie has been a great coach but all good things must come to an end. This program needs new life, new leadership and new blood. Jamie will find a spot in the Nation that will allow him to flourish and continue to be a great coach, but it's time for Pitt to move on. With all of the changes happening to our University, on the Football front and within the administration, it mike make the most sense to begin a new era of Pitt Basketball and that will require new leadership.
I don't say this as a condemnation of Jamie, because I do still believe he has the ability to be successful at another program. It just comes a time when a change is needed and the writing is on the wall. With all of the changes happening to Pitt, the move to the ACC and a fresh new face in football, new marketing look, a new hoops coach seems like a logical choice.
I realize this is very controversial, but unless something major happens to Jamie's current Team, it is becoming very clear that he has lost the ability to get these players to play to his system. Maybe it's time to change the system, the coaching and the players and move on. All programs go through these transformations and it appear to be Pitts time to change.
Just my humble opinion.

Ok, but signed thru 2023 with 20m+ still on the table.

 

[whirlybird optio]

JD, what gives you any belief we will finish strong and make the NCAA's? Did you watch the game last night? We struggled and it took 2 OT's to beat a 1 win team in conference AT HOME!!! If Wakes makes a few more FT's we lose in regulation. Look we all hope Pitt all of a sudden turns it around but I think there is some turmoil behind the scenes with a few guys and the effort by some has been awful.

I honestly don't see a game left they can win.

You didn't think they would beat Wake, and thought they would lose out. So I imagine you were pleasantly surprised last night.

 

[PittPoker]

You didn't think they would beat Wake, and thought they would lose out. So I imagine you were pleasantly surprised last night.

I said the game would be close but Pitt would probably lose. That almost happened and probably should have. Was I surprised? Yeah a little but not the least but confident they can win another game.

 

[PantherO]

Bottom line is this isn't the first or second year this team underperformed. It is becoming a trend. And there is really no end in site.

Jamie had a few years of good will stored up. But after this year, I think it will all be used up.

 

[Ski11585]

On one hand, I absolutely understand the sentiment behind the "Fire Dixon" crowd. On the other hand, if I had to bet I'd put my money on a new coach and a new direction headed more towards BC and Wake than towards Louisville or UNC.

My argument has always been that Dixon is the best Pitt can do. A new AD and Chancellor hasn't changed my mind.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Bottom line is this isn't the first or second year this team underperformed. It is becoming a trend. And there is really no end in site.

Jamie had a few years of good will stored up. But after this year, I think it will all be used up.

I wouldn't say a trend..but, certainly, the core of the team the past 2 years is flawed.

And we are certainly much lower performing than we were in the first 9 years of his coaching.

 

[MrGee]

Thank you for your mastery of the obvious.

Then stop making excuses for him---it's not obvious to the Jamie lovers

 

[cabe23]

On one hand, I absolutely understand the sentiment behind the "Fire Dixon" crowd. On the other hand, if I had to bet I'd put my money on a new coach and a new direction headed more towards BC and Wake than towards Louisville or UNC.

My argument has always been that Dixon is the best Pitt can do. A new AD and Chancellor hasn't changed my mind.

So if you're Scott Barnes and you're sitting in the end of season meeting, what do you say to Jamie? You're fired (no), you need to turn it around or else (but don't tell him he needs to make changes), you need to turn it around or else and need to make some staff changes, etc, you're fine and you have my full support?

I guess we need to set a baseline of scenarios as well.
1. Pitt goes 3-2, wins a game in the ACCT, wins a game in the NCAAT and finishes 23-11 (this is about the best, most realistic scenario I can foresee).
2. Pitt loses some combination of games and misses the tourney all together.
3. Pitt finds a way to squeak into the tourney as a poor seed and loses immediately.

 

[Pitt79]

Pitt can't move on, even if they wanted to.

They can't pay a $15+ million buyout to Dixon and still be able to afford a new top-quality coach.

They won't be able to afford to buyout the remainder of Dixon's contract until at least around 2019 when the buyout will be half of what it is now.

The only way that Pitt has a different HC before 2019 is if Dixon leaves on his own accord. That's the only way.

How are you so sure, what they can or can't afford? Are you their accountant or something? No offense, but the way you answer just makes it sound like you've seen the books? You are probably right, PROBABLY, but you can't really know for sure.

 

[Pitt79]

Umm unless one of us is on the board of trustees (which would certainly be something wouldn't it?) we have no idea what Pitt can do in terms of $.

We aren't Maryland strapped for cash... If Pitt wanted to pay him 15 or something they could do it, u don't like cut a check for the whole thing... it's paid over a long period, and usually things like accepting other positions ties into it.

saying pitt can't afford something is as dumb as people talking about nutting's wallet.

Yup, this is what I was thinking! And being a fan of all Pittsburgh sports team, I always kind of laugh at the never ending Yinzer battle cry, every team, every sport, every time.... Uh, WHY DON'T WE DO THIS? ..... ANSWER IS ALWAYS.... "We can't afford! ...." How do we know? Whether it's Pitt, the Steelers, the Pirates, the Penguins, we haven't seen their books, yet always in unison ASSUME that WE CAN'T AFFORD.

 

[Pitt79]

My argument has always been that Dixon is the best Pitt can do.

Why? Is it money? Is it self imposed BS, like they wouldn't hire this guy or that guy? Why is he the best Pitt can do? Just curious, please explain.

 

[cabe23]

Even assuming his buyout is $15 million, which I tend to doubt is that high, there would definitely be a way to figure it out so the school isn't just cutting a check for the full amount the day they fire him (assuming they did of course). I'd be surprised if there weren't some kind of clause that decreases the amount Pitt would have to pay him if he got another job. Say he gets paid $2.5 million here, Pitt fires him, TCU hires him for $1.5, Pitt has to pay the difference. Let's be honest, if Pitt let him go he'd be able to get a job almost immediately if he wanted. I think it's gotten stale here, but I don't think he's a bad coach. A change of scenery might help.

Also, I'm sure Barnes would talk to boosters, shoe people, etc to see if anyone else could ease some of the cost. "Hey rich booster X, you want Jamie gone, well we need to come up with $5 million to do so in addition to $2.5 million to hire coach Slick Jimmy from Big State. It's hard to say what his contract was like not having seen it. It's hard to imagine it's as Dixon friendly as we think, but then again, Steve Pederson was the athletic director.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Then stop making excuses for him---it's not obvious to the Jamie lovers

Who made any excuses for him, exactly?

You're paranoid for no good reason.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Why? Is it money? Is it self imposed BS, like they wouldn't hire this guy or that guy? Why is he the best Pitt can do? Just curious, please explain.

It's money.
It's always money.

Our boosters don't carry much weight.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Even assuming his buyout is $15 million, which I tend to doubt is that high, there would definitely be a way to figure it out so the school isn't just cutting a check for the full amount the day they fire him (assuming they did of course). I'd be surprised if there weren't some kind of clause that decreases the amount Pitt would have to pay him if he got another job. Say he gets paid $2.5 million here, Pitt fires him, TCU hires him for $1.5, Pitt has to pay the difference. Let's be honest, if Pitt let him go he'd be able to get a job almost immediately if he wanted. I think it's gotten stale here, but I don't think he's a bad coach. A change of scenery might help.

Also, I'm sure Barnes would talk to boosters, shoe people, etc to see if anyone else could ease some of the cost. "Hey rich booster X, you want Jamie gone, well we need to come up with $5 million to do so in addition to $2.5 million to hire coach Slick Jimmy from Big State. It's hard to say what his contract was like not having seen it. It's hard to imagine it's as Dixon friendly as we think, but then again, Steve Pederson was the athletic director.

This is how EVERY HIRE/FIRE at EVERY single college happens... Schools tap major booster to see if they are willing to pay the way to enable it.
If they aren't, the dynamic changes.

 

[Ski11585]

Why? Is it money? Is it self imposed BS, like they wouldn't hire this guy or that guy? Why is he the best Pitt can do? Just curious, please explain.

Honestly? I think Pittsburgh is an awful basketball town. The program has minimal tradition, average facilities, etc.

Don't get me wrong - if Dixon is burning out and the program continues floundering, I don't think you can maintain the status quo. But if/when you replace Dixon, what are your expectations? To return to where Pitt was at Dixon's peak? I think that's maybe possible. But to exceed it? I'm not sure Pitt has the built in stuff to do that with any regularity.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Jamie is going through a trying period with this program, but are we really talking about firing him?? Come on people. It's ludicrous. The program by all accounts is clean, kids do well in the classroom and NEWSFLASH Pitt is not a blue blood or Georgia or Nebraska football that can fire a coach with a high winning %. If Pitt finds its way into the NCAAs, which I think they will that will be 11 NCAAs, 1 NIT and 1 CBI in 13 years. I'm not a Jamie is God guy, but let's be realistic here. He certainly needs to be pressured by the administration, but it's completely moronic to suggest he should be let go.

That is not really reflective of the program and job now is it? Almost all of Jamie's success has been in his first 8 seasons. Not the last 5. So when you put numbers out there like this, it isn't a true reflection or barometer of current state.

And yes, Jamie has built up some deserved capital. But not forever. And no, he won't be fired. Not after this year, nor should he.

But I can see Barnes demanding a serious evaluation and retooling of the coaching staff, with needed $$$'s that could cause Jamie to lose his "comfort zone" and at least look.

 

[JD1976]

That is not really reflective of the program and job now is it? Almost all of Jamie's success has been in his first 8 seasons. Not the last 5. So when you put numbers out there like this, it isn't a true reflection or barometer of current state.

And yes, Jamie has built up some deserved capital. But not forever. And no, he won't be fired. Not after this year, nor should he.

But I can see Barnes demanding a serious evaluation and retooling of the coaching staff, with needed $$$'s that could cause Jamie to lose his "comfort zone" and at least look.

Fair enough. We are not trending upward for sure. My only point is he has serious equity in this program and deserves the opportunity to work out of it after a serious evaluation from the new AD.

 

[Spindler]

There is no doubt Jamie can coach. He gets more out of the talent he has than anyone else could ever hope to get. This is evident year in and year out by the success he has had against Syracuse , who gets a top 10 recruiting class every year - Jamie has had much success against the great Jim Boeheim .
If you can coach with the great coaches during the game then the problem is recruiting better players. Jamie needs an infusion of resources provided to PN on the football side.
Slice is making $800K at St. John's that explains Jamie losing his best recruiter.
Jamie needs finances to his coaching staff to improve recruiting, that will fix the basketball problem.

 

[KiwiJeff]

Who made any excuses for him, exactly?

You're paranoid for no good reason.

I am still waiting for MrGee's "long list of transfers who Dixon let get away and thrived". I suspect by the time he answers me, there may actually be a list some time down the road.

Here is the thing with MrGee, when you call out his nonsense as being nonsense, it must be because you love Jamie, not because what he wrote was factually incorrect and/or just plain dumb.