Never thought I would say this, but.........

[raleighpanther]

One ray of hope possibly, is that we have a new AD, one who won't be content with several more years of mediocrity. Smiley would've been, but not Barnes. Barnes wasn't here for the success, and he knows the program is in trouble, so he won't be willing to rest on the past any longer.

I'm not suggesting that he will fire Dixon. What I do think he will do is be proactive in addressing the problem and getting involved and providing support to fix it.

Barnes knows basketball, which the prior AD did not. I'm not saying that will give all the answers, but he should be closer to it. Just as with the football program, you'll probably see more money for assistant coaches and a bigger recruiting budget, and a strong suggestion that he prioritize recruiting skills and connections with new assistant coaching hires.

 

[Delpanther]

Buyouts are rarely: Years left on contact multuplied by annual salary forfeited. It could he structured that way, but probably isn't. Buyouts are usually some, set predetermined figure. Its false to say we just pay him what he would have made.

Employment contracts rarely have that kind of buyout clause. An employee would have to be a idiot to agree to that.

 

[NTOP]

Even assuming his buyout is $15 million, which I tend to doubt is that high, there would definitely be a way to figure it out so the school isn't just cutting a check for the full amount the day they fire him (assuming they did of course). I'd be surprised if there weren't some kind of clause that decreases the amount Pitt would have to pay him if he got another job. Say he gets paid $2.5 million here, Pitt fires him, TCU hires him for $1.5, Pitt has to pay the difference. Let's be honest, if Pitt let him go he'd be able to get a job almost immediately if he wanted. I think it's gotten stale here, but I don't think he's a bad coach. A change of scenery might help.

Also, I'm sure Barnes would talk to boosters, shoe people, etc to see if anyone else could ease some of the cost. "Hey rich booster X, you want Jamie gone, well we need to come up with $5 million to do so in addition to $2.5 million to hire coach Slick Jimmy from Big State. It's hard to say what his contract was like not having seen it. It's hard to imagine it's as Dixon friendly as we think, but then again, Steve Pederson was the athletic director.

One ray of hope possibly, is that we have a new AD, one who won't be content with several more years of mediocrity. Smiley would've been, but not Barnes. Barnes wasn't here for the success, and he knows the program is in trouble, so he won't be willing to rest on the past any longer.

I'm not suggesting that he will fire Dixon. What I do think he will do is be proactive in addressing the problem and getting involved and providing support to fix it.

Barnes knows basketball, which the prior AD did not. I'm not saying that will give all the answers, but he should be closer to it. Just as with the football program, you'll probably see more money for assistant coaches and a bigger recruiting budget, and a strong suggestion that he prioritize recruiting skills and connections with new assistant coaching hires.

You're making big assumptions about Barnes. Who knows what he will or won't do?? My "guess" is that there will be discussions about budgets & staff, and perhaps some disagreement. But firing the best BB coach in our history, because of a couple years of poor performance would be a bad move, and a signal that the AD might not be what we think he is.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Barnes extended Narduzzi after one season where we lost to every good team we played.

He doesn't seem to be the gambling type.

 

[martingale]

Hey I declared in the gamethread if Pitt would have lost...and Artis and Young kept getting PT..I was on the fire Dixon bandwagon.

But...we didn't, and they did end up contributing towards that. (even if their play caused the anguish).

Talk about settling for a very low bar. We should be satisfied that Young and Atria finally played well enough for Pitt to beat Wake Forest in 2 OT at home...

I am not on the fire Dixon bandwagon unless he refuses to change assistants. If that happens, maybe Dixon will pull a Dave and "resign"..

 

[Black_Man_Panther]

Barnes extended Narduzzi after one season where we lost to every good team we played.

He doesn't seem to be the gambling type.

I think Louisville is a good program. Nonetheless, I think the important part of Narduzzi's first year - he didn't lose to any bad team he played. Who was the last Pitt coach who could say that? Sherrill?

 

[Protes]

The time to move on was before he was handed his big contract. We can only hope he can somehow turn the ship around in the next 2-3 years.

 

[Pitt79]

Honestly? I think Pittsburgh is an awful basketball town. The program has minimal tradition, average facilities, etc.

Don't get me wrong - if Dixon is burning out and the program continues floundering, I don't think you can maintain the status quo. But if/when you replace Dixon, what are your expectations? To return to where Pitt was at Dixon's peak? I think that's maybe possible. But to exceed it? I'm not sure Pitt has the built in stuff to do that with any regularity.

It's a matter of will, wanting to. And not giving up before trying. Look at Pitt Football. Between 1975-1985 it was a NATIONAL, BLUE BLOOD Program, on the same level with 'Bama, tOSU, ND. You can't deny it, it was.... HOWEVER they did that, I believe they can repeat it and do it again. But the issue is whether they want to or not, I don't think it's impossible, like most current Pitt fans do, it's more of a matter of the leadership making a decision to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to get there, whatever, EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING they did then when they where there, and maybe.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Pitt wasn't a blue blood..
It had a pixie pair of great coaches over a short time who caught lightning in a bottle.
Both left for greener pastures because we aren't a blue blood.

Same way with hoops reaching #1, twice being an one seed... Were not even close to a blue blood.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

It's a matter of will, wanting to. And not giving up before trying. Look at Pitt Football. Between 1975-1985 it was a NATIONAL, BLUE BLOOD Program, on the same level with 'Bama, tOSU, ND. You can't deny it, it was.... HOWEVER they did that, I believe they can repeat it and do it again. But the issue is whether they want to or not, I don't think it's impossible, like most current Pitt fans do, it's more of a matter of the leadership making a decision to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to get there, whatever, EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING they did then when they where there, and maybe.

They are wanting to. Only a few acc teams spend more. They pay their hc in the top20 with a 10 year contract. They have one of the nicest arenas in the region.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Pitt wasn't a blue blood..
It had a pixie pair of great coaches over a short time who caught lightning in a bottle.
Both left for greener pastures because we aren't a blue blood.

Same way with hoops reaching #1, twice being an one seed... Were not even close to a blue blood.

Pitt pulled the plug on themselves , they elected not to cheat to win athletic contests . The administrators aren't really stupid they know what it would take for Pitt to establish consistent top 20 programs and until they show the commitment to go there holding the teams ,coaches and players to these expectations is unrealistic .

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Pitt pulled the plug on themselves , they elected not to cheat to win athletic contests . The administrators aren't really stupid they know what it would take for Pitt to establish consistent top 20 programs and until they show the commitment to go there holding the teams ,coaches and players to these expectations is unrealistic .

Pitt hoops was as consistent a top 20 team as Pitt football before 40 years ago,
The peak wasn't as high because hoops has a tournament, rather than a selection for its champion...
But on average... Fairly equivalent.

And I don't think Dixon was cheating..
Can't speak to majors since I wasn't born or Sherrill because I was a toddler.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Pitt hoops was as consistent a top 20 team as Pitt football before 40 years ago,
The peak wasn't as high because hoops has a tournament, rather than a selection for its champion...
But on average... Fairly equivalent.

And I don't think Dixon was cheating..
Can't speak to majors since I wasn't born or Sherrill because I was a toddler.

A four or five year run isn't what l'm talking about. Look at some of the Fb players who came through Pitt in the glory years TD, Marino ,Hugh Green ,Ricky Jackson ,Mark May, Russ Grimm, Jimbo Covert all Americans ,hof guys ,that's the caliber of athlete you need to recruit to be a consistent top 20 /10 team JD never had that kind of athlete because the elite guys don't consider Pitt. It's not impossible for Pitt to have good teams every now and then ,but the commitment isn't there to compete against the Dukes ,etc..

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Pitt has a middling tradition in basketball, some periods of success surrounded by years of mediocrity. But to call our facilities average I think is an undersell. When you look at ACC venues, our arena would have to rank near the top. Granted, its a bit of a mausoleum when we aren't winning but that would be true for most schools.

 

[Harve74]

How are you so sure, what they can or can't afford? Are you their accountant or something? No offense, but the way you answer just makes it sound like you've seen the books? You are probably right, PROBABLY, but you can't really know for sure.

In the last year that figures were available, Pitt was/is subsidizing the Athletic Department to the tune of between 10 and about 7.5 million dollars to have it break even. That's WITH the ACC and CFP (College Football Playoff) money. So, Athletics are STILL losing money.

That money is coming out if the General Fund. This is known public information, not speculation.

The shortfall this year will probably may be worse for a number of reasons I'm not going into here.

The Athletic Department budget cannot afford a buyout without taking perhaps $20 millions more from the General fund. There are real questions whether the Trustees would support that. There is SOME support among the Trustees for Pitt's tradition as a football power. Pitt's basketball tradition basically IS Jamie Dixon.,

 

[Pitt79]

Pitt wasn't a blue blood..
It had a pixie pair of great coaches over a short time who caught lightning in a bottle.
Both left for greener pastures because we aren't a blue blood.

Same way with hoops reaching #1, twice being an one seed... Were not even close to a blue blood.

Yeah, they where, they had won a 9th National Title, they where 11-1 and top 5, 3 of 4 years, they where talked about in the same breath as the biggest of the BIG! they where projected as #1 in preseason polls, things that never happened in basketball. They where BIG DOGS, then they just quit pretty much.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

A four or five year run isn't what l'm talking about. Look at some of the Fb players who came through Pitt in the glory years TD, Marino ,Hugh Green ,Ricky Jackson ,Mark May, Russ Grimm, Jimbo Covert all Americans ,hof guys ,that's the caliber of athlete you need to recruit to be a consistent top 20 /10 team JD never had that kind of athlete because the elite guys don't consider Pitt. It's not impossible for Pitt to have good teams every now and then ,but the commitment isn't there to compete against the Dukes ,etc..

Well, Pitt hoops had a 11 year run or so..
so the point still holds.
And aside from 2-3 seasons, those football teams pretty much underachieved with all that talent.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Yeah, they where, they had won a 9th National Title, they where 11-1 and top 5, 3 of 4 years, they where talked about in the same breath as the biggest of the BIG! they where projected as #1 in preseason polls, things that never happened in basketball. They where BIG DOGS, then they just quit pretty much.

Perhaps it's semantics..but that doesn't make us a Blue Blood..no more than the great run WVU had under RichRod made them a Blue Blood.

Blue Bloods are long histories and big money backing them. Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Alabama, Texas...those are blue bloods.

 

[Pitt79]

Blue Bloods are long histories and big money backing them. Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Alabama, Texas...those are blue bloods.

So a history of 9 National Champions over about 60 years is not a long history?

 

[FireballZ]

Per 2010-2014 Financial Reports, the following programs subsidized their AD:

Maryland $18.1, Virginia $13.2, Oregon State $12.3, Colorado $12.2, Washington State $10.1, Arizona State $10.1, Utah $9.9, North Carolina $9.1, Virginia Tech $8.1, Wisconsin $8.1, Florida State $8, Arizona $7.9, Oklahoma State $7.5, Georgia Tech $7.1, Minnesota $7, North Carolina State $6.7, Alabama $6, South Carolina $5.6, California $5, West Virginia $4.4, Auburn $4.4, Clemson $4.4, Florida $4.3, Texas Tech $4.1, Illinois $3.9, Mississippi $3.9, Washington $3.5, Georgia $3.3, Indiana $3, UCLA $2.7, Mississippi State $2.7, Kansas $2.6, Oregon $2.2, Iowa State $2, Arkansas $1.9, Missouri $1.5, Kansas State $1.3, Tennessee $1.3, Texas A&M $1.2, Michigan State $1.1, Kentucky $0.9, Iowa $0.7, Michigan $0.3

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

So a history of 9 National Champions over about 60 years is not a long history?

A history of 9 national championships, most before MY parents were born, and when my grandparents were kids...
isn't relevant.

Pitt isn't a blue blood. Sorry.
We're too cash poor and have FAR too tepid fan support to qualify.

We are more like Miami...a team that dominated for a short stretch, in between wandering in the wilderness.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Pitt has a middling tradition in basketball, some periods of success surrounded by years of mediocrity. But to call our facilities average I think is an undersell. When you look at ACC venues, our arena would have to rank near the top. Granted, its a bit of a mausoleum when we aren't winning but that would be true for most schools.

The Pete seems much nicer now with the ACC renovations, but I've been in the actual inside areas back before the renovations, and the locker rooms and inner areas were REALLY lacking. It's a gorgeous facility on the outside and for students, but in terms of player amenities and whatnot it was about as bare bones as some HS facilities I've been in. The locker room looks really nice now, though, from what I can tell in the Live Wire videos.

As an aside, from people who seem to have some connections within Pitt (i.e. not pantherfan2010) it sounded like Pitt was somewhat willing to let Dixon go to USC, but they were rebuffed by pretty much everyone when they put feelers out so wound up re-upping.

I doubt money is an issue so much as attracting somebody equal or better. IMO you don't ever cut bait unless you have a guy lined up who's more or less guaranteed to be an upgrade. Otherwise, at a school like Pitt, you're just going to constantly cycle through coaches while praying to eventually catch lightning in a bottle.

 

[KiwiJeff]

So a history of 9 National Champions over about 60 years is not a long history?

Rome used to be an Empire. Where are they now? In college sports, 35 years is an eternity. Unless you're over 50 years old, you have never experienced Pitt as a "blue blood". Now it costs more to compete than back then. Things are pretty established right now. The fact we were good when recruit's parents were kids isn't going to play well. You really want to sell Pitt based on a 100 year old NC? Who would care? People are fearing Pitt BB is becoming irrelevant because of a few down years. If that is true, then the FB program is dead and buried as a top school. 35 years is a long time.

 

[Pitt79]

A history of 9 national championships, most before MY parents were born, and when my grandparents were kids...
isn't relevant.

Pitt isn't a blue blood. Sorry.
We're too cash poor and have FAR too tepid fan support to qualify.

We are more like Miami...a team that dominated for a short stretch, in between wandering in the wilderness.

Earlier in this thread, somebody called Michigan State a "blue blood" in basketball. But outside the Magic Johnson year, they where pretty much nothing before the early '90s. So since most of those years when they where nothing where most before MY parents were born, and when my grandparents were kids...
isn't relevant?

Your ideas that older championships aren't relevant is blllsht, I'm not saying Pitt is a blue blood now, but before the '80s, they where up there most of the time. A championship, is a championship is a championship, new ones are not necessarily worth more in terms of history.

And Michigan State can't be a "blue blood", they've only been good recently, it's not a long historic tradition.

How about UCLA basketball? Are they a "blue blood", sure, they where before the '80s, but JUST LIKE PITT FOOTBALL...
A history of X national championships, most before MY parents were born, and when my grandparents were kids...
isn't relevant. RIGHT?

 

[Harve74]

I doubt money is an issue so much as attracting somebody equal or better. IMO you don't ever cut bait unless you have a guy lined up who's more or less guaranteed to be an upgrade. Otherwise, at a school like Pitt, you're just going to constantly cycle through coaches while praying to eventually catch lightning in a bottle.

(SARCASM FONT ON)How could you say that? It worked so WELL for Steve...

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Earlier n this thread, somebody called Michigan State a "blue blood" in basketball. But outside the Magic Johnson year, they where pretty much nothing before the early '90s. So since most of those years when they where nothing where most before MY parents were born, and when my grandparents were kids...
isn't relevant?

Your ideas that older championships aren't relevant is blllsht, I'm not saying Pitt is a blue blood now, but before the '80s, they where up there most of the time. A championship, is a championship is a championship, new ones are necessarily worth more in terms of history.

And Michigan State can't be a "blue blood", they've only been good recently, it's not a long historic tradition.

How about UCLA basketball? Are they a "blue blood", sure, they where before the '80s, but JUST LIKE PITT FOOTBALL...
A history of X national championships, most before MY parents were born, and when my grandparents were kids...
isn't relevant. RIGHT?

Msu isn't a blue blood.
They are elite under izzo.
Uconn is knocking on the door, too.

If Pitt was a blue blood in football it was prior to ww2.
Not anytime after that.

 

[Pitt79]

Msu isn't a blue blood.
They are elite under izzo.
Uconn is knocking on the door, too.

If Pitt was a blue blood in football it was prior to ww2.
Not anytime after that.

Pitt football was very elite 1975-1985, maybe even blue?
How about UCLA, are they a "blue blood"? Before 'Nam Fell for sure, but how abut now?

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Earlier n this thread, somebody called Michigan State a "blue blood" in basketball. But outside the Magic Johnson year, they where pretty much nothing before the early '90s. So since most of those years when they where nothing where most before MY parents were born, and when my grandparents were kids...
isn't relevant?

Your ideas that older championships aren't relevant is blllsht, I'm not saying Pitt is a blue blood now, but before the '80s, they where up there most of the time. A championship, is a championship is a championship, new ones are not necessarily worth more in terms of history.

And Michigan State can't be a "blue blood", they've only been good recently, it's not a long historic tradition.

How about UCLA basketball? Are they a "blue blood", sure, they where before the '80s, but JUST LIKE PITT FOOTBALL...
A history of X national championships, most before MY parents were born, and when my grandparents were kids...
isn't relevant. RIGHT?

We can pick apart the merits of bluebloods/non-bluebloods all we want and perform mental gymnastics and false equivalencies until our fingers are exhausted, but ultimately what matters is perception.

Pitt never has been -- and likely never will be -- perceived as a blueblood or an elite program in either football or basketball. Have they had elite teams? Sure. But the programs as a whole have never been elite. Indiana is perceived as elite/blueblood in basketball. Georgetown is viewed as elite in basketball. Doesn't matter what they have/haven't done recently. They have name value, they have some kind of history that distinguishes them in peoples' minds, and they have support in and around the media to build them up.

Therefore, they're bluebloods and elites. Pitt is a "nice program" who people "can't believe is challenging School X" whenever they're good.

Pitt is a school like LSU or Oklahoma State or Marquette or West Virginia after they made the Final Four. Nice accomplishment, will largely be dismissed, and won't really move the needle in terms of upping the program's status.

 

[Harve74]

Earlier in this thread, somebody called Michigan State a "blue blood" in basketball. But outside the Magic Johnson year, they where pretty much nothing before the early '90s. So since most of those years when they where nothing where most before MY parents were born, and when my grandparents were kids...
isn't relevant?

Your ideas that older championships aren't relevant is blllsht, I'm not saying Pitt is a blue blood now, but before the '80s, they where up there most of the time. A championship, is a championship is a championship, new ones are not necessarily worth more in terms of history.

And Michigan State can't be a "blue blood", they've only been good recently, it's not a long historic tradition.

How about UCLA basketball? Are they a "blue blood", sure, they where before the '80s, but JUST LIKE PITT FOOTBALL...
A history of X national championships, most before MY parents were born, and when my grandparents were kids...
isn't relevant. RIGHT?

79, you really should look up facts occasionally instead of just talking without thinking.

In the 35 years before Majors was hired, Pitt was ranked in tge Final polls 4 times , once in the Top10. That's far from a blue blood, even in your warped world. They had records below .500 26 of those 35 years.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Pitt football was very elite 1975-1985, maybe even blue?
How about UCLA, are they a "blue blood"? Before 'Nam Fell for sure, but how abut now?

No.
I'd say they are a historical blue blood..because they still have the financial backing and name recognition nationally that is appealing.
They clearly aren't a blue blood currently.

 

[Pitt79]

79, you really should look up facts occasionally instead of just talking without thinking.

In the 35 years before Majors was hired, Pitt was ranked in tge Final polls 4 times , once in the Top10. That's far from a blue blood, even in your warped world. They had records below .500 26 of those 35 years.

Still, 75-85 was an elite period and holding 9 National Championships would qualify as a "historical blue blood"

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Still, 75-85 was an elite period and holding 9 National Championships would qualify as a "historical blue blood"

I would suggest you are in the rare minority of people who would call Pitt football a blue blood.
IT doesn't carry the cache or have the dollars supporting it historically.
Definitely not in your lifetime.

 

[KiwiJeff]

No.
I'd say they are a historical blue blood..because they still have the financial backing and name recognition nationally that is appealing.
They clearly aren't a blue blood currently.

I sometimes use a measure of "how many fans does this team have who have no affiliation at all with the school". I have known UK, Kansas, Duke and UNC fans who A) didn't go to the school B) never been to the state the school is in C) may travel to see the team anyway and buy their merchandise.

How many fans does Pitt generate like that? Unless a person went to Pitt (or had a family member go their), or live in a certain radius of Pitt, how many fans do we have elsewhere?

Kinda like the Steelers. They have fans everywhere, even in other countries. Cowboys, Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, Lakers, Celtics. Those are blue bloods. Golden State, not at all, in spite of being good.

 

[Ski11585]

There is no universe in which Pitt was a blue blood in football.

 

[VolPanther]

This program has been one of the top 10 in wins the last 10 years albeit a lot of those wins were racked up against much inferior competition. If you are the AD I think you definitely have to sit down at the end of the year and decide the same commitment to Bball will be made in terms of hiring quality assistants or it won't as was done with football. If you do that and get another Barry here who can recruit kids we were getting 5-7 years ago and we start to right the ship if not we will continue to win 10-12 cupcake games and be lucky to go .500 in ACC play. We have had horrible point guard play compared to what we had with Carl and LeVance and had a lack of any quality center for a long time and I hardly consider Aaron Gray a quality center. Then the question is if you part ways with Jamie well who are you going to get? I mean we aren't NC or Duke where big time names are going to be knocking down the door. I think we got damn lucky Jamie turned out to be so successful but it could have just as easily went the other way when Howland left and Jamie was a dud and we'd be on our third coach by now. I am as frustrated as anyone with this team and the effort they display especially on the defensive side but I hardly want to just cut Jamie loose. I think a commitment needs made to hire some quality assistants get recruiting back to the level it was 5 years ago and re-evaluate in 2 years if things continue down this road then you cut ties.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Still, 75-85 was an elite period

I wonder if you remember that by 84 we were 3-7-1 and in 85 we were 5-5-1. Our "blue blooded-ness", such as it was, ended in 1981. We might not have known it then, but when Jackie Sherrill walked out the door the days of us aspiring to be a blue blood walked out with him.

 

[Piranha]

If UConn is not considered a Basketball Blue Blood, then I don't want to be one. How many national titles do their men's and women's team have over the past 30 years?

 

[Atch]

I am beginning to believe it's time for a change to the Pitt Basketball program at the top. Jamie has been a great coach but all good things must come to an end. This program needs new life, new leadership and new blood. Jamie will find a spot in the Nation that will allow him to flourish and continue to be a great coach, but it's time for Pitt to move on. With all of the changes happening to our University, on the Football front and within the administration, it mike make the most sense to begin a new era of Pitt Basketball and that will require new leadership.
I don't say this as a condemnation of Jamie, because I do still believe he has the ability to be successful at another program. It just comes a time when a change is needed and the writing is on the wall. With all of the changes happening to Pitt, the move to the ACC and a fresh new face in football, new marketing look, a new hoops coach seems like a logical choice.
I realize this is very controversial, but unless something major happens to Jamie's current Team, it is becoming very clear that he has lost the ability to get these players to play to his system. Maybe it's time to change the system, the coaching and the players and move on. All programs go through these transformations and it appear to be Pitts time to change.
Just my humble opinion.

Bring back Gurg so we can go sideways again.