new Big 12 and American deals

[Sean Miller Fan]

The Big 12's isn't really new, but they added $40 million to it, mainly to carry all the B12 Championship games through 2024 when their current deal expires. The big change is that all schools but Texas will play all games (football, basketball, etc) on ESPN+ which are not picked up by ESPN or FOX. Most games will still be broadcast by a linear channel but those that aren't go to the pay streaming service. All schools but Texas have to play 1 football game on ESPN+ and there will be a Big 12 branded area on ESPN+ similar to ACC Network Extra on ESPN3. They didn't say this specifically but it sounds like ESPN would have bought the "3rd tier content" back from these schools but not sure on that. The per school total is up to $22 million/year now.

Also, the American signed a new TV deal which will pay its members $7 million/year which is a huge increase for them. Their big change is all games will be on ESPN+ which aren't on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ABC (football), or CBS (basketball).

AS we can see, sports TV deals keep increasing and ESPN is phasing out ESPN3 in favor of ESPN+.

 

[ThePanthers]

Shows their Tier 3 rights they kept shouting about wasn't worth that much, which most people knew. Also got less for their championship game than what Fox was paying.

Also, OU is in the same boat as Texas. Their home games are not part of the ESPN plus deal. And the difference between ESPN plus and the ACC/SEC plus is that you must pay additional to view it. $4.99 a month or $49.99 a year. If you have the cable that has ESPN family of networks the SEC/ACC Network plus is free.

Still a good deal for the Big XII though as these schools don't have to produce their own "tier 3" content and therefore should save them money and provide additional exposure.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Shows their Tier 3 rights they kept shouting about wasn't worth that much, which most people knew. Also got less for their championship game than what Fox was paying.

Also, OU is in the same boat as Texas. Their home games are not part of the ESPN plus deal. And the difference between ESPN plus and the ACC/SEC plus is that you must pay additional to view it. $4.99 a month or $49.99 a year. If you have the cable that has ESPN family of networks the SEC/ACC Network plus is free.

Still a good deal for the Big XII though as these schools don't have to produce their own "tier 3" content and therefore should save them money and provide additional exposure.

My guess is that in the next ACC and SEC contracts, which are still a ways away, ACCNE and SECN+ will become stream only pay services so if your game isnt on a linear channel, you have to buy a subscription (which would probably also include ACCN and SECN games).

 

[ThePanthers]

My guess is that in the next ACC and SEC contracts, which are still a ways away, ACCNE and SECN+ will become stream only pay services so if your game isnt on a linear channel, you have to buy a subscription (which would probably also include ACCN and SECN games).

That's like 17 years away. Who knows how things will be.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Shows their Tier 3 rights they kept shouting about wasn't worth that much, which most people knew. Also got less for their championship game than what Fox was paying.

Also, OU is in the same boat as Texas. Their home games are not part of the ESPN plus deal. And the difference between ESPN plus and the ACC/SEC plus is that you must pay additional to view it. $4.99 a month or $49.99 a year. If you have the cable that has ESPN family of networks the SEC/ACC Network plus is free.

Still a good deal for the Big XII though as these schools don't have to produce their own "tier 3" content and therefore should save them money and provide additional exposure.

Big12 was looking for ~$20M for each of their remaining conference championship games. This is what Fox was paying (~$25 million for their 2017 championship game) and they had an option to buy the remaining 3 games (2019, 2021, & 2023) and turned them down.

So ESPN picked them up on the discount sales rack for $40M total, or at most $13.3M for each considering that 5 to 6 years of "Tier 3" media rights to all schools not named Texas and Oklahoma was thrown in as a bonus (they already own UT and shove all that stuff on the Long Horn Network). These "Tier 3" media rights include at least one football game a year, men's basketball games not picked up for linear broadcasts, and the rest of the sports from each of the eight schools which will be placed on a streaming-only paywall ESPN+ service. As noted by everyone that knows anything about these rights, media rights to these "Tier 3" events are nearly worthless filler material unlike what classic realignment kooks would have you believe, and this proves how little value they are. ESPN+ is also not what I'd consider great exposure compared to traditional linear network channels of the Big10, SEC, ACC, and even the Pac and LHN which carry a ton of these filler contests.

This was a deal with sobering realities for the B12, and probably at least $15M less than they anticipated for those games, despite the happy face they tried to paint on it.

 

[ThePanthers]

Big12 was looking for ~$20M for each of their remaining conference championship games. This is what Fox was paying (~$25 million for their 2017 championship game) and they had an option to buy the remaining 3 games (2019, 2021, & 2023) and turned them down.

So ESPN picked them up on the discount sales rack for $40M total, or at most $13.3M for each considering that 5 to 6 years of "Tier 3" media rights to all schools not named Texas and Oklahoma thrown in as a bonus (they already own UT and shove all that stuff on the Long Horn Network). These "Tier 3" media rights include at least one football game a year, men's basketball games not picked up for linear broadcasts, and the rest of the sports from each of the eight schools which will be placed on a streaming-only paywall ESPN+ service. As noted by everyone that knows anything about these rights, media rights to these "Tier 3" events are nearly worthless filler material unlike what classic realignment kooks would have you believe, and this proves how little value they are. ESPN+ is also not what I'd consider great exposure compared to traditional linear network channels of the Big10, SEC, ACC, and even the Pac and LHN.

This was a deal with sobering realities for the B12, and probably at least $15M less than they anticipated for those games, despite the happy face they tried to paint on it.

Agree. As for the exposure, I'm comparing it to their school streaming network or regional RSNs they were previously on. But definitely not at the level of the conference dedicated linear network.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Agree. As for the exposure, I'm comparing it to their school streaming network or regional RSNs they were previously on. But definitely not at the level of the conference dedicated linear network.

And really, there is the question about whether regional RSNs are better for exposure than ESPN+. One could argue, exposure wise, an RSN on regional cable/satellite might be better for exposure than a paywall streaming service. But the future will answer that.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

The Big 12's isn't really new, but they added $40 million to it, mainly to carry all the B12 Championship games through 2024 when their current deal expires. The big change is that all schools but Texas will play all games (football, basketball, etc) on ESPN+ which are not picked up by ESPN or FOX. Most games will still be broadcast by a linear channel but those that aren't go to the pay streaming service. All schools but Texas have to play 1 football game on ESPN+ and there will be a Big 12 branded area on ESPN+ similar to ACC Network Extra on ESPN3. They didn't say this specifically but it sounds like ESPN would have bought the "3rd tier content" back from these schools but not sure on that. The per school total is up to $22 million/year now.

Also, the American signed a new TV deal which will pay its members $7 million/year which is a huge increase for them. Their big change is all games will be on ESPN+ which aren't on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ABC (football), or CBS (basketball).

AS we can see, sports TV deals keep increasing and ESPN is phasing out ESPN3 in favor of ESPN+.

ESPN3 which now is WatchESPN is free while ESPN+ is a pay service.

Risky propostion!

I wouldn't pay to watch college football. There are so many great games on the major networks DirectTV all day long on Saturday.

I'd rather watch Alabama Auburn and check in on the score of my team rather than pay ESPN.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

That's like 17 years away. Who knows how things will be.

Originally, it was 2026-27 but yes I guess they renegotiated it when the ACCN was announced. Are you sure 17 years away thing is for their entire contract and not just the ACCN?

If it is 17 years away then obviously ESPN will not wait that long. I'd suspect new ACC and SEC streaming services within 5 years then. Maybe a cheaper price if you just want ACCNE or SECN+ content and a more expensive price if you are a cord cutter and you want the ACCN and SECN games.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Agree. As for the exposure, I'm comparing it to their school streaming network or regional RSNs they were previously on. But definitely not at the level of the conference dedicated linear network.

Right now, ESPN+ is less exposure for those B12 billion dollar 3rd Tier rights games. For example, locally, if WVU is on ATTSN, I may turn it on a few minutes. I dont pay for ESPN+ so now I cant do that but even if I did pay for that, there is no chance I am streaming WVU/YSU or Texas Tech/McNeese St.

BTW, ATTSN is now losing Pitt, WVU, ACC, and Big 12 content. I believe the only college content they will have left is Big East Basketball through subpackages they buy from Fox. They and the RSNs also lost the Champions League to Turner who put most of it on their Bleacher Report Live app. So, ATTSN will purely be Pirates, Pens, and really really bad filler.

 

[Mikefln]

ESPN3 which now is WatchESPN is free while ESPN+ is a pay service.

Risky propostion!

I wouldn't pay to watch college football. There are so many great games on the major networks DirectTV all day long on Saturday.

I'd rather watch Alabama Auburn and check in on the score of my team rather than pay ESPN.

Disney announced on Friday their answer to Netflix with Disney+. That means Disney currently owns Hulu, ESPN+ and in a year Disney + . My guess in the next few years Disney puts all 3 together as a monthly service and try to really attack NetFlix. We shall see. With all that said Long Disney. My only regret is I didn't buy earlier than I did and I didn't buy more than I did.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Disney announced on Friday their answer to Netflix with Disney+. That means Disney currently owns Hulu, ESPN+ and in a year Disney + . My guess in the next few years Disney puts all 3 together as a monthly service and try to really attack NetFlix. We shall see. With all that said Long Disney. My only regret is I didn't buy earlier than I did and I didn't buy more than I did.

Eventually, there will be separate streaming services for Disney, Hulu, FX (which they own now), ESPN+, mainstream ESPN/2/U, SECN, ACCN, LHN and you could probably get the "whole package" for a discounted cost. I have been saying for what seems like a decade that the demise of ESPN was way overblown. They are going direct to consumer and will still print money.

 

[ThePanthers]

Eventually, there will be separate streaming services for Disney, Hulu, FX (which they own now), ESPN+, mainstream ESPN/2/U, SECN, ACCN, LHN and you could probably get the "whole package" for a discounted cost. I have been saying for what seems like a decade that the demise of ESPN was way overblown. They are going direct to consumer and will still print money.

A lot of people have said the demise of ESPN was overblown. In fact it looks like FOX, after an attempt to overtake ESPN is backing off.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/11/...spn-plus-streaming-service-bundle-deal-likely

Disney has already said it will likely bundle it's streaming services. Eventually when these services are mainstream, you'll likely be paying more for less than cable if you want anything more then barebones.

 

[pittdan77]

Big12 was looking for ~$20M for each of their remaining conference championship games. This is what Fox was paying (~$25 million for their 2017 championship game) and they had an option to buy the remaining 3 games (2019, 2021, & 2023) and turned them down.

So ESPN picked them up on the discount sales rack for $40M total, or at most $13.3M for each considering that 5 to 6 years of "Tier 3" media rights to all schools not named Texas and Oklahoma was thrown in as a bonus (they already own UT and shove all that stuff on the Long Horn Network). These "Tier 3" media rights include at least one football game a year, men's basketball games not picked up for linear broadcasts, and the rest of the sports from each of the eight schools which will be placed on a streaming-only paywall ESPN+ service. As noted by everyone that knows anything about these rights, media rights to these "Tier 3" events are nearly worthless filler material unlike what classic realignment kooks would have you believe, and this proves how little value they are. ESPN+ is also not what I'd consider great exposure compared to traditional linear network channels of the Big10, SEC, ACC, and even the Pac and LHN which carry a ton of these filler contests.

This was a deal with sobering realities for the B12, and probably at least $15M less than they anticipated for those games, despite the happy face they tried to paint on it.

I sort of assumed when I saw The Dude crowing on Twitter about what an amazing deal this was that he was probably only doing the "glass half full" version. Reading deeper, I believe your assessment is correct.

What this deal tells us is that the PAC12 and Big12 are at risk of falling behind. In particular, the Big12 is too unbalanced. I don't know how they hold that together when GOR discussions come around.

 

[Mikefln]

A lot of people have said the demise of ESPN was overblown. In fact it looks like FOX, after an attempt to overtake ESPN is backing off.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/11/...spn-plus-streaming-service-bundle-deal-likely

Disney has already said it will likely bundle it's streaming services. Eventually when these services are mainstream, you'll likely be paying more for less than cable if you want anything more then barebones.

I have been saying this for a couple years. After Netflix, Disney + and maybe a few specialty options the price will be more than cable. People are going to say:

"hey remember when we got 3,000+ channels for $200 instead of 40 channels for $250?"

 

[Mikefln]

I sort of assumed when I saw The Dude crowing on Twitter about what an amazing deal this was that he was probably only doing the "glass half full" version. Reading deeper, I believe your assessment is correct.

What this deal tells us is that the PAC12 and Big12 are at risk of falling behind. In particular, the Big12 is too unbalanced. I don't know how they hold that together when GOR discussions come around.

Agree 100%. If Texas A&M and Missouri bolted at first chance. Iowa St, Texas Tech, WVU, Kansas State, Etc they realize there is no SEC in their future to save the day. They will take whatever they can get, because they know their place is behind Texas and Oklahoma.

 

[pittdan77]

Agree 100%. If Texas A&M and Missouri bolted at first chance. Iowa St, Texas Tech, WVU, Kansas State, Etc they realize there is no SEC in their future to save the day. They will take whatever they can get, because they know their place is behind Texas and Oklahoma.

This deal makes it all worse. If you look at the American, is there any school there that turns the Big12 down even if there's huge income disparity? No way. So everyone there is replaceable unless the other schools in the Big12 go into open rebellion or arrange a fallback plan with another conference. What's the value of that group without the big 2? Can they strike out alone and add enough value to another conference?

The only thing I'm sure of is that Pitt is better off in the ACC than WVU is in the Big12.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I sort of assumed when I saw The Dude crowing on Twitter about what an amazing deal this was that he was probably only doing the "glass half full" version. Reading deeper, I believe your assessment is correct.

What this deal tells us is that the PAC12 and Big12 are at risk of falling behind. In particular, the Big12 is too unbalanced. I don't know how they hold that together when GOR discussions come around.

What ever the Dude says, it is ALWAYS 100% the opposite. You'd think with the amount of absolute BS he throws at the wall, one thing would have turned out to be true just by the law of averages. But no, he's that much of an absolute fraud.

 

[Ambst95]

Disney announced on Friday their answer to Netflix with Disney+. That means Disney currently owns Hulu, ESPN+ and in a year Disney + . My guess in the next few years Disney puts all 3 together as a monthly service and try to really attack NetFlix. We shall see. With all that said Long Disney. My only regret is I didn't buy earlier than I did and I didn't buy more than I did.

I hear you on the wish I'd had bought more DIS. The bundle they build is going to be a Netflix killer.

 

[PittPanthers90]

So, ATTSN will purely be Pirates, Pens, and really really bad filler.

I though the Pirates WERE bad filler!

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I sort of assumed when I saw The Dude crowing on Twitter about what an amazing deal this was that he was probably only doing the "glass half full" version. Reading deeper, I believe your assessment is correct.

What this deal tells us is that the PAC12 and Big12 are at risk of falling behind. In particular, the Big12 is too unbalanced. I don't know how they hold that together when GOR discussions come around.

I would say its actually a bad deal for the Big 12. They got $13.33 million for each B12CG which is about what it's worth and gave away their 3rd tier games for essentially free and now their fans will have to pay to get those games and watch them on their phones instead of their 70 inch TVs.

The ACC and SEC got standalone networks from ESPN for their "third tier" content. The B12 got a branded area on an app that you have to pay for. That tells you all you need to know

 

[ThePanthers]

https://awfulannouncing.com/espn/espn-big-12-streaming-championship-game-pricing.html

Confirms ESPN paid like $13.33M for the 3 championships games and pretty much nothing for the ESPN plus content, pretty much confirming the Tier 3 rights the Big XII kook fans touted brought millions are not worth close that much.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

https://awfulannouncing.com/espn/espn-big-12-streaming-championship-game-pricing.html

Confirms ESPN paid like $13.33M for the 3 championships games and pretty much nothing for the ESPN plus content, pretty much confirming the Tier 3 rights the Big XII kook fans touted brought millions are not worth close that much.

I (and you and others) said back then that content had very little, if any value. I even said WVU may even be paying ATTSN to air their games. It does not surprise me in the least if these schools gave away these "third tier" games to ESPN for free.

 

[pittdan77]

I (and you and others) said back then that content had very little, if any value. I even said WVU may even be paying ATTSN to air their games. It does not surprise me in the least if these schools gave away these "third tier" games to ESPN for free.

It's possible that WVU was doing okay with their Tier 3. Who knows? Do you think Iowa State was doing as well? Kansas State? Texas Christian? So if everything we heard about WVU's massive Tier 3 money was true, they just had it flushed by the conference and will get under a million now.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It's possible that WVU was doing okay with their Tier 3. Who knows? Do you think Iowa State was doing as well? Kansas State? Texas Christian? So if everything we heard about WVU's massive Tier 3 money was true, they just had it flushed by the conference and will get under a million now.

No they weren't. It's common sense. If we are talking about purely the 1 football game and 5 basketball games which each B12 university controls, my guess is that ATTSN didnt pay them anything at all and similar to the other L8 schools. ATTSN probably gave them a cut of their ad sales for that package which had to be next to nothing. Maybe 100K? And that's probably way overestimating

 

[pittdan77]

No they weren't. It's common sense. If we are talking about purely the 1 football game and 5 basketball games which each B12 university controls, my guess is that ATTSN didnt pay them anything at all and similar to the other L8 schools. ATTSN probably gave them a cut of their ad sales for that package which had to be next to nothing. Maybe 100K? And that's probably way overestimating

I'm not sure why WVU would pay for that but it's beside the point. I was only pointing out the historical claims versus what's happening now. You might also be correct and it explains why it was viewed as a "huge win" for the conference. Something is better than nothing.

 

[ThePanthers]

It's possible that WVU was doing okay with their Tier 3. Who knows? Do you think Iowa State was doing as well? Kansas State? Texas Christian? So if everything we heard about WVU's massive Tier 3 money was true, they just had it flushed by the conference and will get under a million now.

The issue was all of the big xii fanboys were taking the entire tier 3 deals that included coaches shows, advertising, signage,etc and said that is what they were getting for their 1 football game and handful of bb games. In reality, every other school in every other conference has these deals, minus the 1 fb game and 5 bb games. And they made similar if not more than the big xii schools. The extra the big xii got to keep at most was a few hundred thousand, which is supported by this deal.

No schools tier 3 stuff outside of Texas was ever worth much.

 

[CrazyPaco]

The issue was all of the big xii fanboys were taking the entire tier 3 deals that included coaches shows, advertising, signage,etc and said that is what they were getting for their 1 football game and handful of bb games. In reality, every other school in every other conference has these deals, minus the 1 fb game and 5 bb games. And they made similar if not more than the big xii schools. The extra the big xii got to keep at most was a few hundred thousand, which is supported by this deal.

No schools tier 3 stuff outside of Texas was ever worth much.

Texas' aren't even worth that much outside of ESPN massively misjudging that market when developing the LHN circa 2010. ESPN miscalculated on that big time, particularly the part where they were prevented from their plan to host high school football on the LHN. It's why you don't see a Notre Dame channel. There's just not enough worthwhile content from one school. Barely enough from 14 team conferences. It was a mistake that won't be repeated.

 

[revampedpanthers]

I have been saying this for a couple years. After Netflix, Disney + and maybe a few specialty options the price will be more than cable. People are going to say:

"hey remember when we got 3,000+ channels for $200 instead of 40 channels for $250?"

More likely I used to get 200 channels for 100 bucks and now I get 40 for 90.

 

[pittdan77]

It was a mistake that won't be repeated.

The question is, what's next. The LHN deal runs past the conference GOR and Fox owns Oklahoma's rights. With Fox taking a pass on the conference championship, it puts ESPN in the driver's seat. Is it possible that Oklahoma and Texas will demand a greater share of the total conference revenue to consolidate and eliminate the individual deals or will they try to force the issue? I'm assuming those two still have leverage.

 

[CrazyPaco]

The question is, what's next. The LHN deal runs past the conference GOR and Fox owns Oklahoma's rights. With Fox taking a pass on the conference championship, it puts ESPN in the driver's seat. Is it possible that Oklahoma and Texas will demand a greater share of the total conference revenue to consolidate and eliminate the individual deals or will they try to force the issue? I'm assuming those two still have leverage.

Probably nothing. UT and OU run their fiefdom and it works for them. OU is the one you probably have to keep your eye but who knows. Luckily, Pitt doesn't have to worry about it.