Next year's Grad Transfer Prospects--This wise Board's Thoughts?

[Chairman Moe]

Hypothetical ahead: Lets say pitt gets the best of all worlds: Pitt gets lee and lewis (the l'ville guys) and maia as grad transfers. Maia, Luther, and Young split time at the five. Lee and lewis both average 10 points a game. What do you think pitt's record ends up being? Are lee and lewis worth an extra 2 wins? 3 wins? Five wins?

And why should pitt ever expect to get top tier grad transfers if they do not expect to get top tier recruits? it is a pipe dream for pitt to get first dibbs on grad transfers

If Lee and Lewis had the same results at Pitt as they had at U of L, I believe this is worth at least 3 wins, maybe as many as 5, since we'd have had a higher seed in the ACCT and could've advanced to the semi-finals. 6 seed or higher in the NCAAT as well.

As for our "expectations", I think that the key is playing time. Any grad transfer who's worth seeking will want playing time. Next year's U of L team will be mostly SO and JR, so getting a couple add'l. grad transfers would work for them. If there is a grad transfer out there who plays PG and who would get playing time at Pitt, it would answer a huge need. Would allow one of our newcomers / soph's to work into the position.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Hypothetical ahead: Lets say pitt gets the best of all worlds: Pitt gets lee and lewis (the l'ville guys) and maia as grad transfers. Maia, Luther, and Young split time at the five. Lee and lewis both average 10 points a game. What do you think pitt's record ends up being? Are lee and lewis worth an extra 2 wins? 3 wins? Five wins?

And why should pitt ever expect to get top tier grad transfers if they do not expect to get top tier recruits? it is a pipe dream for pitt to get first dibbs on grad transfers

I have no idea how many more wins but if they landed those 2 I think they'd have been a better team.

If they are going to continue to get what they got I agree. No question. But you never know. I don't think it's wise to just say we're should abandon targeting grad transfers. It would be irresponsible to not go after a kid they think could help even if the chances don't look good.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

A near double double post player who is a rim protectors would have been the difference between being the Sagsrin # 34-39 team and a 10 seed vs having been some where between Sagarin #10 and #15 and a likely 3 or 4 seed. So if we just had Louisville's big vs Maia and Ododa we would have been there.

 

[Piranha]

If we simply added a SG guy like Adam Smith, then we add about 3 more wins and are a Top 20 team. The right Grad Transfer is absolutely worth it.

 

[OhioPittFan]

Jimmy Hall from Kent State would be a guy I'd like to see us pursue and you would think we might have a shot considering he plays at Kent (nearby) and is from NYC (an area we recruit). Hall would give us another strong scoring/rebounding presence to go alongside Young next year. Right now, I'm not sure we have anyone lined up to start next to him. We didn't this year. Our best options are Luther or Jeter, who are both Solid, but not big time rebounders or physical guys. I think Hall would give us some more physicality there.

Hall went for 21 pts and 7 rebs against Pitt this past season.

I think he could be a solid 10 ppg, 6 rebs guy

 

[KiwiJeff]

agree, let's avoid the grad transfer.. Dixon tried it, it failed, what's done is done. Let's not repeat our mistakes...

We got a 5 star player who failed. We should never take any more. Epps was awful, we should stop recruiting New Jersey too.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

King: kinda ironic that both Lee and Lewis went to U of L to finally get to an NCAAT, only to have the "sanctions" bite them in the a$$. Of course, one could speculate that they had some nice "perks" to attract them to play for Pitino. Sadly, when a recruit comes to Pitt, the only women they're promised look like this:

Please no photos of your wife

 

[Fsgolfdr]

What did Pitt have to lose with adding the 5th yr guys ...nothing , they had open scholarships and serious holes to try to fill. They didn't get who they wanted ,but let's not rule out an avenue of improving the roster. The last few yrs have been rough with players leaving hopefully things will be more stable going forward.

 

[Chairman Moe]

Please no photos of your wife

Mom says you don't have to keep referring to her as my wife, son ....

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

At this point, it seems obvious that no one understands the concept of opportunity cost.

 

[NTOP]

It's way too early to worry about it. Possible transfers out would change the potential needs. Late H.S. signees tend to have "issues" of one kind or another. And grad transfers haven't declared yet, for the most part, though I think there's probably a growing list of schools who are actively pursuing guys at other schools. That will get uglier in time. Let the auctions begin!

 

[Harve74]

A near double double post player who is a rim protectors would have been the difference between being the Sagsrin # 34-39 team and a 10 seed vs having been some where between Sagarin #10 and #15 and a likely 3 or 4 seed. So if we just had Louisville's big vs Maia and Ododa we would have been there.

DC, I love your posts and sgree Pitt would be much better with a 6-10-ish, double-double rim-protector. But, if there are any potential 5th year transfers who can do that, they're most likely going to the NBA, not Pitt.

We arguably signed the best rim protector available last off-season and found the same thing Richmond's coaches had seen. While ANO has some skills and potential, he is maddeningly inconsistent. At best. I don't kniw if it is a talent issue or a confidence issue. He seemed to play his best against teams he had previously faced at Richmond, but disappeared most games.

That doesn't mean Dixon should abandon trying to find someone who can help the team. We have at least one open scholarship. I'd prefer a decent developmental big, but Tshimanga reportedly was leaning towards BC. There may or may not be another HS big worth a ride. So, the 5th year route might be the best fit.

Likewise, if Wilson moves on, we coud use an experienced ball handler. And ANY team can always use a shooter. And, we could still have more attrition and scholarships open.

We might sign more 5th year guys or not. Dixon usually prefers a full roster and the competition for anyone still unsigned in the Spring is fierce.

But, the priority this Spring really HAS TO BE recruiting 2017 guys to sign in November. We'll have a bunch of seniors in the rotation leaving and THAT '17 class will have an awful lot to say about the future of the program.

 

[gary2]

DC, I love your posts and sgree Pitt would be much better with a 6-10th, double-double rim-protector. But, if there are any potential 5th year transfers who can do that, they're most likely going to the NBA, not Pitt.

We arguably signed the best rim protector available last off-season and found the same thing Richmond's coaches had seen. While ANO has some skills and potential, he is maddeningly inconsistent. At best. I don't kniw if it is a tlent issue or a confidence issue. Ge seened to play his best gsjst teans e had previously faced at Richmond, but disappeared most games.

That doesn't mean Dixon shoud abandon trying to find someone who can help the team. We have at least one open scholarship. I'd prefer a decent developmental big, but Tshimanga reportedly was leaning towards BC. There may or may not be another HS big worth a ride. So, the 5th year route might be the best fit.

Likewise, if Wilson moves on, we coud use an experienced ball handler. And ANY team can always use a shooter. And, we coud have more attrition and scholarships open.

We might sign more 5th year guys or not. Dixon usually prefers a full roster and the competition for anyone still unsigned in the Spring is fierce.

But, the priority this Spring really HAS TO BE recruiting 2017 guys to sign in November. We'll have a bunch of seniors in the rotation leaving and THAT '17 class will have an awful lot to say about the future of the program.

J.Simmons a must get?

 

[Jpripper88]

I really don't mind it. Some of these kids are graduating in 3 years and getting out. I can't even fathom how that is possible for an athlete. They are restricted to moving to a school to enroll in a program not offered by their original school. Obviously that has been abused. I think if the worst "abuse" in NCAA basketball is kids taking graduate level courses, rather than, say, having sex with school-provided prostitutes, we are doing okay.

I do agree it hurts the smaller schools, and something should be done to help them. I'm really not sure how, though.

Doesn't seem that hard when they are in school in summer every year in this day and age. Most of them are in low difficulty programs and lots of kids come in with credits. Just average 15 each regular semester and 12 a summer and they are at 126 credit hours without any pre-enrollment credits. They obviously have other responsibilities as student athletes, but they also get great support other students don't have access to. I am surprised more (below pro caliber and legitimate student) athletes don't graduate in 3 years. If you are a good player you can probably walk out with a free MBA or similar 2 year grad program degree for free and obviously a huge step up as an athlete entering the job market.

 

[Jpripper88]

What did Pitt have to lose with adding the 5th yr guys ...nothing , they had open scholarships and serious holes to try to fill. They didn't get who they wanted ,but let's not rule out an avenue of improving the roster. The last few yrs have been rough with players leaving hopefully things will be more stable going forward.

The argument is there was an opportunity cost of getting more time for younger players to play and develop. There is no doubt there is at least some value in that. Would it be enough to possibly miss the NCAAT? I'm not sure.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

The argument is there was an opportunity cost of getting more time for younger players to play and develop. There is no doubt there is at least some value in that. Would it be enough to possibly miss the NCAAT? I'm not sure.

First you earn pt in practice and coaches actually get fired by not winning. While development is a nice thought I don't think coaches look far beyond winning the game their playing. Notice whose getting more pt the grad transfers or Cam J or Luther and that's because they earned it.

 

[Jpripper88]

First you earn pt in practice and coaches actually get fired by not winning. While development is a nice thought I don't think coaches look far beyond winning the game their playing. Notice whose getting more pt the grad transfers or Cam J or Luther and that's because they earned it.

Yeah, I just don't think you are grasping the argument. Oh well.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I

Yeah, I just don't think you are grasping the argument. Oh well.

I understand your point , I also wanted to see more of Cam and Ryan all year but you just don't give them pt ,once they showed they deserved it they got it. Would they be better now if they played more in actual games who knows , but maybe part of the reason their playing so well now was the effort it took to get on the court.

 

[levance2]

Doesn't seem that hard when they are in school in summer every year in this day and age. Most of them are in low difficulty programs and lots of kids come in with credits. Just average 15 each regular semester and 12 a summer and they are at 126 credit hours without any pre-enrollment credits. They obviously have other responsibilities as student athletes, but they also get great support other students don't have access to. I am surprised more (below pro caliber and legitimate student) athletes don't graduate in 3 years. If you are a good player you can probably walk out with a free MBA or similar 2 year grad program degree for free and obviously a huge step up as an athlete entering the job market.

Plenty of average students graduate in 5 years, and they aren't practicing for hours every single day.

 

[Harve74]

Doesn't seem that hard when they are in school in summer every year in this day and age. Most of them are in low difficulty programs and lots of kids come in with credits. Just average 15 each regular semester and 12 a summer and they are at 126 credit hours without any pre-enrollment credits. They obviously have other responsibilities as student athletes, but they also get great support other students don't have access to. I am surprised more (below pro caliber and legitimate student) athletes don't graduate in 3 years. If you are a good player you can probably walk out with a free MBA or similar 2 year grad program degree for free and obviously a huge step up as an athlete entering the job market.

Problem with that is carrying 15 credits in semesters when they miss several days of classes every week on road trips. I knew guys when I was an undergrad and they weren't allowed to carry 15 by the coaches. I think the minimum for a full-time student is 9 and most everyone carried the minimum.

Many, if not most of the 5th year transfers are guys who redshirted for one reason or another.

 

[Chairman Moe]

. . . I knew guys when I was an undergrad . . . I think the minimum for a full-time student is 9 credit hours . . .

I abbreviated your quote; I also knew guys when I was an undergrad (same time as you) who were probably only taking 9 credit hours, but they weren't involved in sports - thinking many of them did so to keep their 2-S and not have to go to 'Nam! A few 5th year Sophomores lived next door at the Delta Phi house . . .

 

[Harve74]

I abbreviated your quote; I also knew guys when I was an undergrad (same time as you) who were probably only taking 9 credit hours, but they weren't involved in sports - thinking many of them did so to keep their 2-S and not have to go to 'Nam! A few 5th year Sophomores lived next door at the Delta Phi house . . .

There was a guy on my floor when I was a freshman and sophomore. He never went to class and I never saw him crack a book. He had been a preferred walk-on with the hoops team but quit the team his soph/my freshman year. He told me about the 9-credit thing for athletes. I think he was planning to stay in school as long as possible, which, in 1970 with Viet Nam and the draft still hanging out there., was not the worst plan possible.

Dunno what ever happened to him.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

There was a guy on my floor when I was a freshman and sophomore. He never went to class and I never saw him crack a book. He had been a preferred walk-on with the hoops team but quit the team his soph/my freshman year. He told me about the 9-credit thing for athletes. I think he was planning to stay in school as long as possible, which, in 1970 with Viet Nam and the draft still hanging out there., was not the worst plan possible.

Dunno what ever happened to him.

His name didn't happen to be Bluto Blutarsky, did it? Because if it was then he became a Senator.

 

[Chairman Moe]

His name didn't happen to be Bluto Blutarsky, did it? Because if it was then he became a Senator.

Joe, don't know if you went to Pitt or not, but in the early '70's - prior to the release of the movie Animal House - the Delta Phis were Pitt's version of Faber College's Delta house. Those guys were crazy, lived like slobs, and always had great parties. I'm sure there was a Blutarsky among them ...

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I did go to Pitt, but not quite that long ago.

 

[InfoManiac]

[QUOTE="DT_PITT, post: 1100055, member: 412].....It's probably more likely that Milligan, or even Wilson, will be more ready.....[/QUOTE]

I'm hearing Milligan wisely used his RS year to really improve certain aspects of his game that were lacking.

 

[Jpripper88]

Plenty of average students graduate in 5 years, and they aren't practicing for hours every single day.

I'm aware. That doesn't mean it is hard to do with the resources they have and summer enrollments every year.

 

[Jpripper88]

Problem with that is carrying 15 credits in semesters when they miss several days of classes every week on road trips. I knew guys when I was an undergrad and they weren't allowed to carry 15 by the coaches. I think the minimum for a full-time student is 9 and most everyone carried the minimum.

Many, if not most of the 5th year transfers are guys who redshirted for one reason or another.

The minimum for a full time student is 12 hours. I believe athletes need to pass a minimum of 9 hours to not become ineligible. Far different issue. For many athletes, who are below average students it would be very difficult with the schedule, despite the resources. For average to above average students, who are athletes, it is very achievable and I believe will happen more and more. Especially at non pro factory programs, who only care about keeping kids eligible.