Not understanding the disappointment in Browne's play

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yes, it was a very vanilla offensive game plan with very few passes downfield and very few passes to WRs in general and maybe that's because Browne is terrible and isnt capable of throwing the ball downfield......or maybe it was by design so as not to give Penn State any routes to study.

Browne was 17-24 for 140 with a TD and 0 INT. He made 3 massive plays late in the game. The 13 yard scramble on 3rd down allowed us to get the 1st on 4th down on the final drive and the well-thrown ball to Ffrench on that drive allowed for a game-winning FG to be attempted. The TD to Weah in OT was extremely well-covered and thrown perfectly in the only spot he could catch it.

Browne should have avoided at least 1 sack but the others, he really cannot be blamed for. Pitt fans still have Tino-itis regarding sacks I guess. Most times, a sack is on the OL and not the QB. Not everyone has Lamar Jackson back there.

I leave you with a link of all of Browne's passes vs Alabama, the best D there is and while Browne didn't have a great game, he held his own.

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

Does anyone have his stats on attempts that were actually downfield on Saturday?

 

[VAPITTALUM]

Yes, it was a very vanilla offensive game plan with very few passes downfield and very few passes to WRs in general and maybe that's because Browne is terrible and isnt capable of throwing the ball downfield......or maybe it was by design so as not to give Penn State any routes to study. I think there were two factors which played into the lack of a downfield threat; the OL didn't seem to gel with the insertion of Morrissey at the C position. Having Bookser back in the lineup with Officer going back to C will pay immediate dividends. Although it may not appear to be a big deal to switch one player our for a game, having a new starter, along with a player not in his natural position caused several breakdowns in the second half. When's the last time we saw O'Neil beaten on the edge to allow a sack? That was the direct result of having to try and make up for another player's ability to get the block inside.

Browne was 17-24 for 140 with a TD and 0 INT. He made 3 massive plays late in the game. The 13 yard scramble on 3rd down allowed us to get the 1st on 4th down on the final drive and the well-thrown ball to Ffrench on that drive allowed for a game-winning FG to be attempted. The TD to Weah in OT was extremely well-covered and thrown perfectly in the only spot he could catch it. I liked some of the things we saw from Browne early and late in the game. In between, there were a bunch of less than memorable plays. There were 2 back-to-back series that raised a few red flags for me which occurred in the second half. Following an excellent punt block/return from Stocker, PITT was unable to power its way in for a TD that would have made it 28-7 (game over). To make matters worse, the kicker then missed a chip shot FG. To start at the YSU 4 and come away with 0 points is painful. On the next drive, following a YSU TD, Browne looked like a deer in headlights and fumbled the ball. The following drive, while trying to set up a game-winning FG, Browne was very lucky not to fumble the ball when he decided to walk behind the line of scrimmage rather than hand the ball off or take a knee.

Browne should have avoided at least 1 sack but the others, he really cannot be blamed for. Pitt fans still have Tino-itis regarding sacks I guess. Most times, a sack is on the OL and not the QB. Not everyone has Lamar Jackson back there. Agree with this. I think the plan of stretch the field a bit more, along with having their full complement of OL back will result in better protection and more time to throw this week. I really hope we see Moss and Davis receive more carries this week. Hall and Ollison had a really tough time outside of two decent runs.

I leave you with a link of all of Browne's passes vs Alabama, the best D there is and while Browne didn't have a great game, he held his own.

View embedded media

 

[Jeffburgh]

That throw away on second down where all he had to do was tuck and run to the open space to pick up the first down and move the chains was truly horrible, a reflection of someone who is as mechanical as he is and gets into a fog during the game. As was the "run" to set up the FG, he was so in his head he didn't see the YSU guys and got blasted.

Being cool, focused and into the game competitively is THE key attribute in a QB, you see this fogginess in QBs you watch a lot, Kordell was like that, at Pitt Matt Lytle was that way, skittish.

That is what has most people's hair on fire. I agree, for the most part, when he had time to, set and threw down field he was mostly OK. But, he has to improve a L O T, I mean a L O T with keeping his head in the game and not panicking in a weeks time, going from a home game at Heinz against YSU to Beaver Stadium.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

Does anyone have his stats on attempts that were actually downfield on Saturday?

I don't have a breakout of his downfield passing attempts, but this stat is pretty telling:

BY QUARTER Yards Per Attempt/ Longest Attempt
1st QUARTER 10.86/30 yards
2nd QUARTER 5.67/10 yards
3rd QUARTER 2.75/6 yards
4th QUARTER 2.25/18 yards

Everything was right around the LOS Saturday. Whether that is a function of game planning, poor OL play for long periods of the game, or both is hard to determine.

 

[pittdan77]

Pretty sure they were too cute with holding back. Sacks came on obvious passing downs. The rocket over the middle to the TE and the game winner was plenty of evidence that Browne will do just fine.

 

[Swervin27]

guys, we did this same thing last year with Nate, Canada, and the offense after the d1-aa game. maybe he isn't the answer, maybe he is but seriously, can we at least learn from last year's mistakes here and critique the QB and offense after some actual D1 games?

 

[Pitt79]

.....or maybe it was by design so as not to give Penn State any routes to study.

At some point, you have to SHOW your playbook if you're at risk of actually losing the game.

 

[pittdan77]

At some point, you have to SHOW your playbook if you're at risk of actually losing the game.

Yeah. Not like it's a huge secret.

 

[Swervin27]

At some point, you have to SHOW your playbook if you're at risk of actually losing the game.

he played with fire last Saturday, no doubt about that.

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

Hypothetically, if you have superior talent you shouldn't have to show your playbook. After the blocked quick kick when pitt was down at the five yard line, Pitt seemed pretty hell bent on just ramming the ball down their throats. That should be enough when you have superior talent. However, YSU really pinned their ears back and fought and won. YSU was beating pitt frequently during one on one battles. If you are losing one on one battles, you can't afford the vanilla playcalling. Then again, if you are losing one on one battles against YSU you have problems.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

guys, we did this same thing last year with Nate, Canada, and the offense after the d1-aa game. maybe he isn't the answer, maybe he is but seriously, can we at least learn from last year's mistakes here and critique the QB and offense after some actual D1 games?

I think most of us posting in this thread echo your sentiments. The stat lines from both the YSU and Villanova games are eerily similar on offense:

C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT QBR
Nathan Peterman 19/32 175 5.5 2 0 53.6
Max Browne 17/24 140 5.8 1 0 75.5

Blewitt even missed two FGs in that game as well.

Most of the concern revolves around the defense's inability (again) to adjust and make plays. Zeise, and I completely understand that he was seeing his first real action, seemed to have a lot of trouble finding his man over the middle. That simply cannot happen against a PSU team who loves to exploit the RB/LB matchups with Barkley.

The concern regarding Browne appears to center around his indecision at times, which almost cost PITT the game on Saturday. Throwing the ball into the ground on a short third down when he could have easily run for a first down without getting touched, inability to score from the 4 yard line of YSU, and the absolutely terrible decision to walk to the spot where he would take a knee for the potential game-winning FG (this easily could have resulted in an injury, fumble return for a TD, etc).

 

[Pitt79]

Hypothetically, if you have superior talent you shouldn't have to show your playbook. After the blocked quick kick when pitt was down at the five yard line, Pitt seemed pretty hell bent on just ramming the ball down their throats. That should be enough when you have superior talent. However, YSU really pinned their ears back and fought and won. YSU was beating pitt frequently during one on one battles. If you are losing one on one battles, you can't afford the vanilla playcalling. Then again, if you are losing one on one battles against YSU you have problems.

They aren't that superior, if they where, they could beat Akron 52-0. What can you say, every year they never pound the crap out of these 3rd rate team. I'd like for once to see a 52-0.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

They aren't that superior, if they where, they could beat Akron 52-0. What can you say, every year they never pound the crap out of these 3rd rate team. I'd like for once to see a 52-0.

Every year, except most recently against Duke (56-14) or Delaware (62-0) in 2014?

 

[wbrpanther]

Yes, it was a very vanilla offensive game plan with very few passes downfield and very few passes to WRs in general and maybe that's because Browne is terrible and isnt capable of throwing the ball downfield......or maybe it was by design so as not to give Penn State any routes to study.

Browne was 17-24 for 140 with a TD and 0 INT. He made 3 massive plays late in the game. The 13 yard scramble on 3rd down allowed us to get the 1st on 4th down on the final drive and the well-thrown ball to Ffrench on that drive allowed for a game-winning FG to be attempted. The TD to Weah in OT was extremely well-covered and thrown perfectly in the only spot he could catch it.

Browne should have avoided at least 1 sack but the others, he really cannot be blamed for. Pitt fans still have Tino-itis regarding sacks I guess. Most times, a sack is on the OL and not the QB. Not everyone has Lamar Jackson back there.

I leave you with a link of all of Browne's passes vs Alabama, the best D there is and while Browne didn't have a great game, he held his own.

View embedded media

What is there to understand? He is the starter. Of course the back up is better and should play.

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

The stat lines from both the YSU and Villanova games are eerily similar on offense:

C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT QBR
Nathan Peterman 19/32 175 5.5 2 0 53.6
Max Browne 17/24 140 5.8 1 0 75.5

The concern regarding Browne appears to center around his indecision at times, which almost cost PITT the game on Saturday.

Another concern with Browne is that he was unable to lead the offense to a single score in the second half of regulation.

Peterman's numbers may have been similar in the game against Villanova, but at least his offense kept generating points in the second half and that team ended up winning by 21 points.

No clue if Browne is going to be able to turn it on like Peterman did or even if the offensive playcalling is going to come close to last year's. We shall see.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

Another concern with Browne is that he was unable to lead the offense to a single score in the second half of regulation.

Peterman's numbers may have been similar in the game against Villanova, but at lest his offense kept generating points in the second half and that team ended up winning by 21 points.

No clue if Browne is going to be able to turn it on like Peterman did or even if the offensive playcalling is going to come close to last year's. We shall see.

I guess Peterman was slightly better in the second half than Browne. He threw for 1 TD to Weah in the 4th quarter (although Browne threw a TD to Weah in OT), with Henderson scoring the other TD on a return. Peterman also gave up a fumble for a TD in the second half.

Not a whole lot of separation between the two opening game examples.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The stat lines from both the YSU and Villanova games are eerily similar on offense:

C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT QBR
Nathan Peterman 19/32 175 5.5 2 0 53.6
Max Browne 17/24 140 5.8 1 0 75.5

The concern regarding Browne appears to center around his indecision at times, which almost cost PITT the game on Saturday.

Another concern with Browne is that he was unable to lead the offense to a single score in the second half of regulation.

Peterman's numbers may have been similar in the game against Villanova, but at least his offense kept generating points in the second half and that team ended up winning by 21 points.

No clue if Browne is going to be able to turn it on like Peterman did or even if the offensive playcalling is going to come close to last year's. We shall see.

In a Live Wire video a few weeks ago, when asked to compare him to a QB, Narduzzi said Nathan Peterman. He said he's very similar to Nate and has the ability to play at the next level.

The problem is Pitt has gone vanilla 2 years in a row against good 1AA programs and the games were much closer than they should have been. Unless you are playing Duq or RMU, Pitt's players aren't good enough to blow people off the line of scrimmage and run it up the middle for 10 yards every play.

 

[Jpripper88]

The throw to Weah was actually not a very well thrown ball. It was thrown short and with a low catch point. He had another 3-4 yards of target area, which would have made it a much easier and likelier play for Weah, but Jester made a great catch. He may have been 17-24, but he was set up to be 24-24 because YSU's defense was very bad and the throws asked of him were extremely easy and he missed some gimme throws.

I think the insistence that we are "hiding routes" and a gameplan is ridiculous. PSU and OkSt have plenty of film on Pitt and Max Browne that holding back hurts Pitt far, far more than it helps us. It costs us valuable live reps running our offense/defense and is makes us a national joke (again) for going to OT with an FCS school.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

In a Live Wire video a few weeks ago, when asked to compare him to a QB, Narduzzi said Nathan Peterman. He said he's very similar to Nate and has the ability to play at the next level.

The problem is Pitt has gone vanilla 2 years in a row against good 1AA programs and the games were much closer than they should have been. Unless you are playing Duq or RMU, Pitt's players aren't good enough to blow people off the line of scrimmage and run it up the middle for 10 yards every play.

If Browne had half of the running ability as Peterman, I would feel a lot better moving forward. He did show the ability to tuck and run against Alabama last year when required, so maybe he has some tricks up his sleeve.

This week is going to tell us what the offense and defense is capable of moving forward; especially with the biggest improvement of the season generally occurring between weeks 1 and 2.

 

[vegasgreed]

Agreed. The other bad thing, he "floats" the ball to much. Against quality DB's, this is going to result in balls being picked.

The throw to Weah was actually not a very well thrown ball. It was thrown short and with a low catch point. He had another 3-4 yards of target area, which would have made it a much easier and likelier play for Weah, but Jester made a great catch. He may have been 17-24, but he was set up to be 24-24 because YSU's defense was very bad and the throws asked of him were extremely easy and he missed some gimme throws.

I think the insistence that we are "hiding routes" and a gameplan is ridiculous. PSU and OkSt have plenty of film on Pitt and Max Browne that holding back hurts Pitt far, far more than it helps us. It costs us valuable live reps running our offense/defense and is makes us a national joke (again) for going to OT with an FCS school.

keep watching.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

The throw to Weah was actually not a very well thrown ball. It was thrown short and with a low catch point. He had another 3-4 yards of target area, which would have made it a much easier and likelier play for Weah, but Jester made a great catch. He may have been 17-24, but he was set up to be 24-24 because YSU's defense was very bad and the throws asked of him were extremely easy and he missed some gimme throws.

I think the insistence that we are "hiding routes" and a gameplan is ridiculous. PSU and OkSt have plenty of film on Pitt and Max Browne that holding back hurts Pitt far, far more than it helps us. It costs us valuable live reps running our offense/defense and is makes us a national joke (again) for going to OT with an FCS school.

I'm sure that PSU had plenty of film on Peterman and Canada before the game last year, and were extremely surprised by what they saw on offense. Will that same success on offense occur again this year? No one knows the answer until the game is played. To say limiting the formations, plays, etc. to 30% (Narduzzi quoted percentage) hurts PITT more than it helps isn't necessarily true based on recent evidence to the contrary. We'll see how it all plays out this weekend.

 

[Pitt79]

Every year, except most recently against Duke (56-14) or Delaware (62-0) in 2014?

It's not common enough, thinking of close games vs. Maine, YSU, Akron, if you're a serious P5 team you pound every I-AA team 50-0 every time.

 

[#99HUGHgreen]

I guess Peterman was slightly better in the second half than Browne. He threw for 1 TD to Weah in the 4th quarter (although Browne threw a TD to Weah in OT), with Henderson scoring the other TD on a return. Peterman also gave up a fumble for a TD in the second half.

Not a whole lot of separation between the two opening game examples.

No question that neither QB played all that well in their first game of the season. It's just a bit less concerning when the team is able to score in the second half of regulation.

That's not to say it's all on Browne, but going scoreless in the both 2nd half quarters against a team like YSU has to have Narduzzi more concerned then he is letting on- or at least it should.

 

[Cathedral Lawn Frisbee]

Bookser coming back will help the OL. More time to survey the field for Browne to find an open receiver. We will find out on Saturday.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

The throw to Weah was actually not a very well thrown ball. It was thrown short and with a low catch point. He had another 3-4 yards of target area, which would have made it a much easier and likelier play for Weah, but Jester made a great catch.

It was late too. If that ball is thrown well and on time, it's an easy catch along the side/back of the endzone. The most concerning part is he stared him down from the snap and still threw it late and short. Credit Weah for coming back to the ball and making a good catch.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Bookser coming back will help the OL. More time to survey the field for Browne to find an open receiver. We will find out on Saturday.

Frankly, he didn't survey anything and locked in on one guy every time. That's my biggest problem with the performance. Not what you expect from a 5th year senior.

 

[rmf05]

Aside from the good comments above, did anyone else notice that he couldn't even handle a simple slide? He tucked the ball, shuffled awkwardly to his right a couple of steps and then froze like a deer in the headlights and got destroyed by a d-lineman. He just seems totally unfit mentally to me. He reminds me of Pat Bostick. He can stand in there against 180 lb DL and LB's and lob passes on target to slow WR's all night at the HS level but looks out of place at the college level. I hope I'm wrong and the play-calling is the culprit.

 

[pittiswhereiamfrom2]

Weeping and gnashing.

 

[upj87]

If Browne had half of the running ability as Peterman, I would feel a lot better moving forward. He did show the ability to tuck and run against Alabama last year when required, so maybe he has some tricks up his sleeve.

This week is going to tell us what the offense and defense is capable of moving forward; especially with the biggest improvement of the season generally occurring between weeks 1 and 2.

yeah, that one always kills me. You are a kid in your early 20's and you lack the ability to simply run away from trouble...

 

[pittdan77]

Honestly, if this is the how the staff will behave before Penn State every year, it's probably best to not play them or make it game three or four.

 

[VAPITTALUM]

Honestly, if this is the how the staff will behave before Penn State every year, it's probably best to not play them or make it game three or four.

What do you mean by this? While I completely understand that this makes the first game of the season somewhat boring, what other negative impact has it had? Not trying to be argumentative, just wondering why you feel this way.

 

[Jpripper88]

I'm sure that PSU had plenty of film on Peterman and Canada before the game last year, and were extremely surprised by what they saw on offense. Will that same success on offense occur again this year? No one knows the answer until the game is played. To say limiting the formations, plays, etc. to 30% (Narduzzi quoted percentage) hurts PITT more than it helps isn't necessarily true based on recent evidence to the contrary. We'll see how it all plays out this weekend.

I doubt they were, but that is also different because all the weapons were different and the offense was different. This year the weapons are the same or worse and HCPN has said they want the offense to be very similar to last year. Plus, I don't think we held back much of anything. I think we still used Henderson in the jet game and the only difference was we didn't try to stretch the field with Weah. The question is whether we can actually do this in the next couple weeks and if we held back or we just cannot really execute. Best case we "held it back" and now the first time we really try to execute will be against a much better team with much more on the line. Meanwhile, we almost lost to an FCS team, at home, in our HC 3rd season. That is pathetic and a laughing stock.

 

[pittdan77]

What do you mean by this? While I completely understand that this makes the first game of the season somewhat boring, what other negative impact has it had? Not trying to be argumentative, just wondering why you feel this way.

Speculating on the "vanilla" nature of the play calling. The whole point of playing this game is as a "tune up" for the regular season. If you're not going to do much and risk a loss because you don't want to show your "true colors", then you've essentially blown your opportunity to take advantage of why YSU is on your schedule.

In other words, why play Penn State if it's going to hurt how you prepare for the season?

 

[Jpripper88]

Aside from the good comments above, did anyone else notice that he couldn't even handle a simple slide? He tucked the ball, shuffled awkwardly to his right a couple of steps and then froze like a deer in the headlights and got destroyed by a d-lineman. He just seems totally unfit mentally to me. He reminds me of Pat Bostick. He can stand in there against 180 lb DL and LB's and lob passes on target to slow WR's all night at the HS level but looks out of place at the college level. I hope I'm wrong and the play-calling is the culprit.

That I just will flat out never understand from a play calling standpoint. Have him hand off to the RB and tell the RB he hits the hole and gets what he can without any cutback. A far, far safer play than trying to have your qb turtle towards the middle of the field and get rocked or slide.

 

[pittdan77]

That I just will flat out never understand from a play calling standpoint. Have him hand off to the RB and tell the RB he hits the hole and gets what he can without any cutback. A far, far safer play than trying to have your qb turtle towards the middle of the field and get rocked or slide.

I question game planning more than anything. If you're questioning the call, it's because they didn't feel like they would need to deal with "must get" third downs and were trying to reach into the play book for something that might work. Let's face it, the last drive and then OT looked okay because they were back in a comfort zone.

 

[Jpripper88]

I question game planning more than anything. If you're questioning the call, it's because they didn't feel like they would need to deal with "must get" third downs and were trying to reach into the play book for something that might work. Let's face it, the last drive and then OT looked okay because they were back in a comfort zone.

I am talking specifically about asking Browne to turtle towards the middle of the field to set up a FG. That has absolutely nothing to do with a game plan. That is 101 and is not affected at all by scouting. It just was absolutely awful play calling, coaching, and execution.

 

[pittdan77]

I am talking specifically about asking Browne to turtle towards the middle of the field to set up a FG. That has absolutely nothing to do with a game plan. That is 101 and is not affected at all by scouting. It just was absolutely awful play calling, coaching, and execution.

Oh. Yeah. Mobility isn't a strength.

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

We'll have a much better read on Browne and the O after a few more weeks. Really, really can't wait to get Aston and Moss back. That will help too.

 

[Burgh15]

Browne made it clear he had all of the physical tools of a pocket passer, but his pocket awareness of vision downfield were a bit of a concern for a grad transfer.