Numbers don’t lie

[TFBaum]

I will be the first on here that really wanted HCPN to work out at Pitt. Last year was a pure outlier. Not counting the current 36 - 22 in the ACC. I haven’t seen one Pitt game this season so I am only going by results. The mean matters Narduzzi mean (rounding ) is basically 8 - 5. That is who he is. I listen to Moneyball the Wharton School podcast. These are nerds discussing sport. And Cade Massey called Narduzzi a caveman of modern football.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

I will be the first on here that really wanted HCPN to work out at Pitt. Last year was a pure outlier. Not counting the current 36 - 22 in the ACC. I haven’t seen one Pitt game this season so I am only going by results. The mean matters Narduzzi mean (rounding ) is basically 8 - 5. That is who he is. I listen to Moneyball the Wharton School podcast. These are nerds discussing sport. And Cade Massey called Narduzzi a caveman of modern football.

I’d mention what happened firing Wanny (who certainly a “caveman” offensive tendency) with no intent to upgrade, and the disasters that resulted; but many here despise Wanny for whatever bizarre reason, and are just thrilled he was gone, regardless of the utterly worthless near-decade of terrible football that followed.

So, remember the cautionary tale of Jamie Dixon, who is beloved (legitimately) by these same people. Whose defensive-minded coaching style is likely also considered in the “ caveman” category by this guy and had us on a .600 pace near the end. So we dumped him. But subsequently hired a total disaster and then what seems also a disaster, and a result our once-.600 hoops program is now totally dead.

It isn’t who you get rid of. It’s who you replace him with. Whom do you propose to hire in Duz place?

Note that I’m not necessarily disagreeing that Duz should not have delivered better results here, just that this is a school that doesn’t care about winning, so it’s nearly 100% chance we would botch the replacement. Pitt is a good university, but terrible at running its 2 professional sports franchises (which is absolutely what major college sports are).

 

[TFBaum]

I’d mention what happened firing Wanny (who certainly a “caveman” offensive tendency) with no intent to upgrade, and the disasters that resulted; but many here despise Wanny for whatever bizarre reason, and are just thrilled he was gone, regardless of the utterly worthless near-decade of terrible football that followed.

So, remember the cautionary tale of Jamie Dixon, who is beloved (legitimately) by these same people. Whose defensive-minded coaching style is likely also considered in the “ caveman” category by this guy and had us on a .600 pace near the end. So we dumped him. But subsequently hired a total disaster and then what seems also a disaster, and a result our once-.600 hoops program is now totally dead.

It isn’t who you get rid of. It’s who you replace him with. Whom do you propose to hire in Duz place?

Note that I’m not necessarily disagreeing that Duz should not have delivered better results here, just that this is a school that doesn’t care about winning, so it’s nearly 100% chance we would botch the replacement. Pitt is a good university, but terrible at running its 2 professional sports franchises (which is absolutely what major college sports are).

No idea who to replace Narduzzi. I think Pitt Administration is probably a 8 - 5 annual record. FWIW after the pay outs from these big coaching firings what AD in their right mind would give $100 million contracts? With the portal a good coach and coaching staff can construct a winning team every year. Please note I did not say championship team.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I’d mention what happened firing Wanny (who certainly a “caveman” offensive tendency) with no intent to upgrade, and the disasters that resulted; but many here despise Wanny for whatever bizarre reason, and are just thrilled he was gone, regardless of the utterly worthless near-decade of terrible football that followed.

So, remember the cautionary tale of Jamie Dixon, who is beloved (legitimately) by these same people. Whose defensive-minded coaching style is likely also considered in the “ caveman” category by this guy and had us on a .600 pace near the end. So we dumped him. But subsequently hired a total disaster and then what seems also a disaster, and a result our once-.600 hoops program is now totally dead.

It isn’t who you get rid of. It’s who you replace him with. Whom do you propose to hire in Duz place?

Note that I’m not necessarily disagreeing that Duz should not have delivered better results here, just that this is a school that doesn’t care about winning, so it’s nearly 100% chance we would botch the replacement. Pitt is a good university, but terrible at running its 2 professional sports franchises (which is absolutely what major college sports are).

Pitt isnt and shouldn't fire Narduzzi as the buyout is too great and they'd likely do worse. They should hope that someone like a Purdue, Maryland, Indiana, etc takes him off our hands.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

He's 57-40. That's a 58.76% winning percentage that averages out to a 7.05 - 4.95 regular season record (basically 7-5) and a 7.64 - 5.36 overall record (including the bowl game).

So not even an 8-5 coach, really. Is that good enough for Pitt? Probably up to each individual person to be the judge.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

He's 57-40. That's a 58.76% winning percentage that averages out to a 7.05 - 4.95 regular season record (basically 7-5) and a 7.64 - 5.36 overall record (including the bowl game).

So not even an 8-5 coach, really. Is that good enough for Pitt? Probably up to each individual person to be the judge.

What is his record vs P5 teams? What is his record vs P5 teams who arent Duke and Syracuse?

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I’d mention what happened firing Wanny (who certainly a “caveman” offensive tendency) with no intent to upgrade, and the disasters that resulted; but many here despise Wanny for whatever bizarre reason, and are just thrilled he was gone, regardless of the utterly worthless near-decade of terrible football that followed.

So, remember the cautionary tale of Jamie Dixon, who is beloved (legitimately) by these same people. Whose defensive-minded coaching style is likely also considered in the “ caveman” category by this guy and had us on a .600 pace near the end. So we dumped him. But subsequently hired a total disaster and then what seems also a disaster, and a result our once-.600 hoops program is now totally dead.

It isn’t who you get rid of. It’s who you replace him with. Whom do you propose to hire in Duz place?

Note that I’m not necessarily disagreeing that Duz should not have delivered better results here, just that this is a school that doesn’t care about winning, so it’s nearly 100% chance we would botch the replacement. Pitt is a good university, but terrible at running its 2 professional sports franchises (which is absolutely what major college sports are).

I don't think we should fire him, because he keeps our floor at a respectable level. However, it's getting to a point where we may have to dramatically change the structure of our coaching staff and create a "director of offense" position or something that pays better than a mere coordinator position and hire someone who relieves Narduzzi of absolutely having anything to do with the offense. In fact, we should hire someone just to shadow Narduzzi and remind him how stupid his ideas for this offense are at all times. If Narduzzi even raises a finger to begin to interject anything offense-relate, this guy needs to hit him on the head with a rubber hammer and tell him to shut up immediately.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

What is his record vs P5 teams? What is his record vs P5 teams who arent Duke and Syracuse?

Duke and Syracuse count every bit as much as Vanderbilt, Indiana, Rutgers, etc.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Duke and Syracuse count every bit as much as Vanderbilt, Indiana, Rutgers, etc.

Yea but I am wondering what his record is vs P5 teams who haven't been near the bottom of the ACC every year.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Yea but I am wondering what his record is vs P5 teams who haven't been near the bottom of the ACC every year.

Off the top of my head, he's 41-37 against the P5 and ND. Duke has only had 3 really bad seasons since he's been here.

Either way, that's just doctoring up the numbers, which I'm not interested in. The 41-37 speaks for itself. And everyone can make their own judgments as to whether or not that's good enough for Pitt. It's a 52.56 winning %. Against P5 competition, we win slightly more than we lose.

 

[Upg bobcat]

Unfortunately, 8-5 makes him the most successful Pitt coach of my lifetime, and I am in my late 30s. So based on my experience (which does go back decades), he's the best I've seen. It's hard for me to be as critical on him as some of you that experienced Majors I and Sherrill.

I also think it's not such a good idea to formulate an opinion on whether a coach should be fired by listening to "nerd" podcasts instead of actually watching the team play.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

He's 57-40. That's a 58.76% winning percentage that averages out to a 7.05 - 4.95 regular season record (basically 7-5) and a 7.64 - 5.36 overall record (including the bowl game).

So not even an 8-5 coach, really. Is that good enough for Pitt? Probably up to each individual person to be the judge.

We haven't been ranked in a final top 10 poll in 40 years. 7-5, 8-5 is what Pitt football is.

 

[TFBaum]

He's 57-40. That's a 58.76% winning percentage that averages out to a 7.05 - 4.95 regular season record (basically 7-5) and a 7.64 - 5.36 overall record (including the bowl game).

So not even an 8-5 coach, really. Is that good enough for Pitt? Probably up to each individual person to be the judge.

I played around with his record I think I excluded the bowl games and current season. I was only pointing out that he is reverting to his mean. What Pitt does regarding his future is not my point.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

We haven't been ranked in a final top 10 poll in 40 years. 7-5, 8-5 is what Pitt football is.

Is that good enough? I honestly don't know. Because we can certainly roll the dice and end up even worse. If Virginia Tech, UNC, WVU, etc. can struggle and have some down years, we certainly can also.

I was saying, "Eh, big deal" about the Sweet 16 a little over a decade ago, but then things happen and it all gets put into perspective.

All in all, I'd keep Narduzzi (and we don't really have a choice anyway). But I do wish he would have an epiphany and realize he doesn't know everything about how to run an efficient college offense.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Off the top of my head, he's 41-37 against the P5 and ND. Duke has only had 3 really bad seasons since he's been here.

Either way, that's just doctoring up the numbers, which I'm not interested in. The 41-37 speaks for itself. And everyone can make their own judgments as to whether or not that's good enough for Pitt. It's a 52.56 winning %. Against P5 competition, we win slightly more than we lose.

41-37 vs P5 isnt good enough any way you slice it.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

41-37 vs P5 isnt good enough any way you slice it.

Well college football obviously masks that with buy-a-wins.

At any rate, something I find interesting about Narduzzi is that his best season here might have been sandwiched between his two worst.

We had way too much talent to be 5-5 against the P5 in 2020.

We have way to much talent to be 2-3 against the P5 this season.

Well, to the extent that those results specifically fall on the head coach, I guess. Getting/developing that talent is half the battle, so you can't dismiss that part. But the whole Cignetti thing is looking like a disaster.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

In fact, we should hire someone just to shadow Narduzzi and remind him how stupid his ideas for this offense are at all times. If Narduzzi even raises a finger to begin to interject anything offense-relate, this guy needs to hit him on the head with a rubber hammer and tell him to shut up immediately.

Thanks for the laugh... at least I still can after that wretched offensive performance.

 

[cruzer]

Unfortunately, 8-5 makes him the most successful Pitt coach of my lifetime, and I am in my late 30s. So based on my experience (which does go back decades), he's the best I've seen. It's hard for me to be as critical on him as some of you that experienced Majors I and Sherrill.

I also think it's not such a good idea to formulate an opinion on whether a coach should be fired by listening to "nerd" podcasts instead of actually watching the team play.

Wow. How sad. All you've ever seen from Pitt is mediocrity. I had the good fortune to arrive at Pitt as a freshman when we had a guy named Dorsett and we won the natty. I've seen what good teams look like and I can tell you this ain't one.

When you've been served shit on a shingle your entire life you really don't know what filet mignon tastes like.

Cruzer

 

[Upg bobcat]

Wow. How sad. All you've ever seen from Pitt is mediocrity. I had the good fortune to arrive at Pitt as a freshman when we had a guy named Dorsett and we won the natty. I've seen what good teams look like and I can tell you this ain't one.

When you've been served shit on a shingle your entire life you really don't know what filet mignon tastes like.

Cruzer

I've had the pleasure of watching outstanding individual players at Pitt--Fitzgerald and Donald are the two that really stand out, but Martin, Revis, McCoy, Conner, Boyd, Pickett, Addison and others have been amazing, too. Despite some incredibly special players, I have not gotten to see a truly incredible team. Last year was as close as I have seen, and that team still lost to a MAC school. Losing to Western Michigan was really pathetic when you think about it.

 

[CJsE]

In fact, we should hire someone just to shadow Narduzzi and remind him how stupid his ideas for this offense are at all times. If Narduzzi even raises a finger to begin to interject anything offense-relate, this guy needs to hit him on the head with a rubber hammer and tell him to shut up immediately.

So Pitt needs to get Narduzzi an Auriga to whisper in his ear "memento defensionis"

 

[Duneaux Harm]

He is the third best coach in conference since he came to ACC. His out of conference is one of the worst. I cannot tell from the website if the out of conference includes all games or just FBS teams only.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

He's 57-40. That's a 58.76% winning percentage that averages out to a 7.05 - 4.95 regular season record (basically 7-5) and a 7.64 - 5.36 overall record (including the bowl game).

So not even an 8-5 coach, really. Is that good enough for Pitt? Probably up to each individual person to be the judge.

No, it isn’t.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

He is the third best coach in conference since he came to ACC. His out of conference is one of the worst. I cannot tell from the website if the out of conference includes all games or just FBS teams only.

I mean as much as we make fun of the BIG and especially the BIG west, is being third best that great? The ACC has been bad outside of Clemson since Duzz arrived

 

[CJsE]

He is the third best coach in conference since he came to ACC. His out of conference is one of the worst. I cannot tell from the website if the out of conference includes all games or just FBS teams only.

I believe he's 3-10 vs P5 non-ACC.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I believe he's 3-10 vs P5 non-ACC.

If I count ND (I know they were technically in the ACC one season) and bowl games, I'm coming up with 3-12

Wins:
PSU
Tennessee
WVU

Losses:
ND x 3
PSU x 3
Northwestern
Iowa
Oklahoma State x 2
Tennessee
Michigan State

 

[PittMan2003]

I’d mention what happened firing Wanny (who certainly a “caveman” offensive tendency) with no intent to upgrade, and the disasters that resulted; but many here despise Wanny for whatever bizarre reason, and are just thrilled he was gone, regardless of the utterly worthless near-decade of terrible football that followed.

So, remember the cautionary tale of Jamie Dixon, who is beloved (legitimately) by these same people. Whose defensive-minded coaching style is likely also considered in the “ caveman” category by this guy and had us on a .600 pace near the end. So we dumped him. But subsequently hired a total disaster and then what seems also a disaster, and a result our once-.600 hoops program is now totally dead.

It isn’t who you get rid of. It’s who you replace him with. Whom do you propose to hire in Duz place?

Note that I’m not necessarily disagreeing that Duz should not have delivered better results here, just that this is a school that doesn’t care about winning, so it’s nearly 100% chance we would botch the replacement. Pitt is a good university, but terrible at running its 2 professional sports franchises (which is absolutely what major college sports are).

Yeah this is the thing. We would be worse off firing him as of now.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

I believe he's 3-10 vs P5 non-ACC.

So based on that he would be 16-5 against non power 5 schools. It is odd to me he can win against our conference but stink it up outside of it. It’s not like we are getting Alabama and Ohio STate.

 

[CJsE]

If I count ND (I know they were technically in the ACC one season) and bowl games, I'm coming up with 3-12

Wins:
PSU
Tennessee
WVU

Losses:
ND x 3
PSU x 3
Northwestern
Iowa
Oklahoma State x 2
Tennessee
Michigan State

You forgot the Standford loss in the Sun Bowl, I wasn't counting ND but I should have.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

You forgot the Standford loss in the Sun Bowl, I wasn't counting ND but I should have.

Ah, true. So 3-13 against the P5 and ND OOC (including the weird 2020 ND ACC season).

 

[CJsE]

So based on that he would be 16-5 against non power 5 schools. It is odd to me he can win against our conference but stink it up outside of it. It’s not like we are getting Alabama and Ohio STate.

It's almost like all of the experts and rankings outside of the ACC fanbase has consistently put the ACC at the bottom or at #4 in the P5 strength hierarchy...

 

[Duneaux Harm]

It's almost like all of the experts and rankings outside of the ACC fanbase has consistently put the ACC at the bottom or at #4 in the P5 strength hierarchy...

If you look at the numbers there is a strong representation of ACC schools in the middle with only Clemson at the top. Also not as many in the bottom 3rd as other conferences either. I would definitely say the ACC is in that 3.7 spot of power 5. Certainly better than Pac 12 and better than a lot of Big 12 schools.

 

[CJsE]

If you look at the numbers there is a strong representation of ACC schools in the middle with only Clemson at the top. Also not as many in the bottom 3rd as other conferences either. I would definitely say the ACC is in that 3.7 spot of power 5. Certainly better than Pac 12 and better than a lot of Big 12 schools.

Well the Massey Composite has the ACC at
2022 - 5th
2021 - 4th
2020 - 5th
2019 - 5th
2018 - 4th

Big12-
2022 - 1st
2021 - 2nd
2020 - 1st
2019 - 2nd
2018 - 2nd

So no, I don't think that the numbers and consensus opinion is that the ACC is arguably better than the Big12 overall.

 

[Burgh15]

Great coaches adapt and Narduzzi seems to largely run the same schemes. His defense needs updated. Use elements from it that work and add some wrinkles. The offense doesn't even resemble a modern offense and multiple times over the past 5-6 years have had teams that couldn't throw the ball. I don't expect 10+ wins every season, but Pitt could've develop into a team where an 8-win season was a down year.

 

[pittjas]

I will be the first on here that really wanted HCPN to work out at Pitt. Last year was a pure outlier. Not counting the current 36 - 22 in the ACC. I haven’t seen one Pitt game this season so I am only going by results. The mean matters Narduzzi mean (rounding ) is basically 8 - 5. That is who he is. I listen to Moneyball the Wharton School podcast. These are nerds discussing sport. And Cade Massey called Narduzzi a caveman of modern football.

You haven’t watched a Pitt game this season?

 

[Schaef60]

This is Pitt, who are you going to get that’s any better?If you’re Under 40 years old last year is the best you’re going to get.Save the film

 

[Usuallyunusual-partdeux]

I will be the first on here that really wanted HCPN to work out at Pitt. Last year was a pure outlier. Not counting the current 36 - 22 in the ACC. I haven’t seen one Pitt game this season so I am only going by results. The mean matters Narduzzi mean (rounding ) is basically 8 - 5. That is who he is. I listen to Moneyball the Wharton School podcast. These are nerds discussing sport. And Cade Massey called Narduzzi a caveman of modern football.

If you haven't seen 1 Pitt game all year why are you here? Perhaps work schedule or something. I'm only asking because I remember you being posting in the past. Most Pitt fans are like rubber neckers during a crash....even when we know it's going to be ugly it's hard to look away.