Ode to Mike 412

[Fk_Pitt]

Just heard Spain has been in 29 major soccer finals in various competitions and levels since 2001, which is amazing in itself…but in those finals they have won every single one of them. 29 for 29. That’s statistically impossible you would think, especially in a sport that sometimes comes down to a coin flip. I’m not going to source it and research it to see which levels and competitions were included, but I’d bet USA basketball doesn’t have that success rate.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Just heard Spain has been in 29 major soccer finals in various competitions and levels since 2001, which is amazing in itself…but in those finals they have won every single one of them. 29 for 29. That’s statistically impossible you would think, especially in a sport that sometimes comes down to a coin flip. I’m not going to source it and research it to see which levels and competitions were included, but I’d bet USA basketball doesn’t have that success rate.

They are probably counting youth tournaments but that's still a crazy number to believe.

I think the thing that is misleading is that the average English player isnt as good as the average player from Spain, France, Italy, and Germany. But since they are from England, they play in the EPL so we know their names. Spain fielded a team of guys from Real Sociedad and teams we dont even know and waltzed through because they had the best players.

 

[pitt90seven]

english soccer player ratings are very similar to the dallas cowboys' player ratings.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

english soccer player ratings are very similar to the dallas cowboys' player ratings.

This may be true. However…

Regarding Spain, they’ve cracked the code though. They seem to play chess while England and France play checkers. They are good from player 1 to player 22 (or in Chelsea’s case player 1 to player 55 hahahaha). Im no historian, but this era for Spain lacks top end star power. How many of their starting 11 would start for England? But combined, their 11 is superior. They know how to play and they know where they are playing the ball before it’s on their foot every single time. Take any given player off the Spain field at any position. Are they the same team? Id say yes. I would think taking any given starter off spains field is less impactful than taking any given England starter off the field.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

This may be true. However…

Regarding Spain, they’ve cracked the code though. They seem to play chess while England and France play checkers. They are good from player 1 to player 22 (or in Chelsea’s case player 1 to player 55 hahahaha). Im no historian, but this era for Spain lacks top end star power. How many of their starting 11 would start for England? But combined, their 11 is superior. They know how to play and they know where they are playing the ball before it’s on their foot every single time. Take any given player off the Spain field at any position. Are they the same team? Id say yes. I would think taking any given starter off spains field is less impactful than taking any given England starter off the field.

I think most would start for England but since they grew up in Spain they play in La Liga and we dont know them. I dont think this Spanish team has the star power of their Golden Era but all those guys could play for top English clubs and start for England. The average English player has a notoriety advantage because they grew up in England and have an easier path to the EPL and worldwide recognition since everyone on the planet watches it.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I think most would start for England but since they grew up in Spain they play in La Liga and we dont know them. I dont think this Spanish team has the star power of their Golden Era but all those guys could play for top English clubs and start for England. The average English player has a notoriety advantage because they grew up in England and have an easier path to the EPL and worldwide recognition since everyone on the planet watches it.

Who would start for England? Go…. I doubt more than 3 would.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Who would start for England? Go…. I doubt more than 3 would.

All of them?

 

[Fk_Pitt]

All of them?

You really don’t follow it that closely do you ? It’s ok. No one says you have to know what you’re talking about when it comes to this.

 

[mike412]

Not that they needed him, but imagine if Messi had decided to play for Spain back when he was 18 instead of Argentina. Back then, the Spanish team had Xavi, Iniesta, Xabi Alonso and David Silva in the midfield, Carles Puyol and Sergio Ramos at CB, a bunch of superb left and right backs, and David Villa and Fernando Torres up front. Oh, and Ilker Cassilas and Victor Valdez as GK. Add Messi and Spain might never have lost a game. He was eligible. He had lived in Spain since he was 13 and his whole family was there by the time he was 17.

Spain doesn’t play the tiki-taka style that Barcelona won with back then, but they utilize many of its precepts: Ball possession; pressing to win the ball back right after losing it; playing out from the back with a GK who is good with his feet. They add much more playing direct to that though, trying to break wingers free with long balls. Barcelona has essentially adopted that strategy now.

I know they have won 29 titles since the 21st Century began. I didn’t know it before yesterday, but that number was all over the news here after the Olympic win. I heard some say that was 29 wins in 29 title matches and I found that hard to believe. I can think of tourneys they have been knocked out of before the finals, but I honestly can’t think of a title game they have lost.

The funny thing is that I am much more partial to Italy as a country than I am to Spain. I speak Italian; I love the people. I love Barcelona and San Sebastián (home of Real Sociedad) but I am pretty neutral about the rest of Spain. Except for Rome, I love everywhere I have been in Italy.

However, I hate the way Italians play soccer. I have hated it ever since they essentially crippled my first soccer hero, Marco Van Basten. The Italian game has no flow to it. And I love the flow of the Spanish game. It is just beautiful to watch when they are in synch.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Not that they needed him, but imagine if Messi had decided to play for Spain back when he was 18 instead of Argentina. Back then, the Spanish team had Xavi, Iniesta, Xabi Alonso and David Silva in the midfield, Carles Puyol and Sergio Ramos at CB, a bunch of superb left and right backs, and David Villa and Fernando Torres up front. Oh, and Ilker Cassilas and Victor Valdez as GK. Add Messi and Spain might never have lost a game. He was eligible. He had lived in Spain since he was 13 and his whole family was there by the time he was 17.

Spain doesn’t play the tiki-taka style that Barcelona won with back then, but they utilize many of its precepts: Ball possession; pressing to win the ball back right after losing it; playing out from the back with a GK who is good with his feet. They add much more playing direct to that though, trying to break wingers free with long balls. Barcelona has essentially adopted that strategy now.

I know they have won 29 titles since the 21st Century began. I didn’t know it before yesterday, but that number was all over the news here after the Olympic win. I heard some say that was 29 wins in 29 title matches and I found that hard to believe. I can think of tourneys they have been knocked out of before the finals, but I honestly can’t think of a title game they have lost.

The funny thing is that I am much more partial to Italy as a country than I am to Spain. I speak Italian; I love the people. I love Barcelona and San Sebastián (home of Real Sociedad) but I am pretty neutral about the rest of Spain. Except for Rome, I love everywhere I have been in Italy.

However, I hate the way Italians play soccer. I have hated it ever since they essentially crippled my first soccer hero, Marco Van Basten. The Italian game has no flow to it. And I love the flow of the Spanish game. It is just beautiful to watch when they are in synch.

Good stuff

 

[pitt90seven]

GK: simon vs pickford = push
RW: carvajal vs walker = push
CB: le normand vs stones = push
CB: la porte vs guehi = la porte had a great career but as it stands, i'd go with MG
LW: cucerella vs shaw = shaw stinks so sideshow bob it is.
MF: rodri vs maino = rodri
MF: ruiz vs rice = i'm not a rice fan. go with ruiz.
MF: almo vs foden = i think foden is overrated but nonetheless, pep likes him well enough. we'll give this one to england.
RW: yamal vs saka = saka....for now.
LW: nico williams vs bellingham = bellignham
CF: morata vs kane = kane

i got england 5, spain 3, and 3 pushes. other opinions welcomed. maybe @mike412 has better input on the spanish players than me.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

GK: raya vs pickford = push
RW: carvajal vs walker = push
CB: le normand vs stones = push
CB: la porte vs guehi = la porte had a great career but as it stands, i'd go with MG
LW: cucerella vs shaw = shaw stinks so sideshow bob it is.
MF: rodri vs maino = rodri
MF: ruiz vs rice = i'm not a rice fan. go with ruiz.
MF: almo vs foden = i think foden is overrated but nonetheless, pep likes him well enough. we'll give this one to england.
RW: yamal vs saka = saka....for now.
LW: nico williams vs bellingham = bellignham
CF: morata vs kane = kane

i got england 5, spain 3, and 3 pushes. other opinions welcomed. maybe @mike412 has better input on the spanish players than me.

That’s fair but it depends on how they are deployed too. If you deploy Foden, Kane and Saka across the front, with Bellingham at the 10 where he was La Liga’s player of the year, then that’s a clean sweep for England, and by a good distance too.

Foden-EPL player of the Year
Kane-Bundesliga’s runaway winner for goals and points
Bellingham-La LIGA player of the year

Not to mention Cole Palmer, the EPL #2 goal scorer (only Haaland scored more) is kept on the bench by this group.

You had Cucurella over Shaw and I probably would too…but when healthy Chillwell is the left back for England, and Cucurella was Chiily’s backup at Chelsea. On the other side Walker was only there because Reece James wasn’t fit. Some argue James is the best right back in world when fit. Carvajal is a damn good player though.

So from your group, I could argue that it’s like 7-2 England with 2 pushes…or something. 🤷🏽‍♂️Lol.

But think about who I asked the question to…he said La Liga’s player of the year couldn’t start for Spain. Need we say more?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You really don’t follow it that closely do you ? It’s ok. No one says you have to know what you’re talking about when it comes to this.

Well, yes, I dont follow La Liga but Spain's players certainly looked better than England's. It wasnt a flukey win. It wasn't just "tactics." England is ALWAYS overrated.

 

[pitt90seven]

That’s fair but it depends on how they are deployed too. If you deploy Foden, Kane and Saka across the front, with Bellingham at the 10 where he was La Liga’s player of the year, then that’s a clean sweep for England, and by a good distance too.

Foden-EPL player of the Year
Kane-Bundesliga’s runaway winner for goals and points
Bellingham-La LIGA player of the year

Not to mention Cole Palmer, the EPL #2 goal scorer (only Haaland scored more) is kept on the bench by this group.

You had Cucurella over Shaw and I probably would too…but when healthy Chillwell is the left back for England, and Cucurella was Chiily’s backup at Chelsea. On the other side Walker was only there because Reece James wasn’t fit. Some argue James is the best right back in world when fit. Carvajal is a damn good player though.

So from your group, I could argue that it’s like 7-2 England with 2 pushes…or something. 🤷🏽‍♂️Lol.

But think about who I asked the question to…he said La Liga’s player of the year couldn’t start for Spain. Need we say more?

*note - had to edit ESP GK - i put raya by accident.

and yet, almost all of the spanish players CLEARLY outplayed their english counterparts at the euros. hell, merino, a squad type player for spain, outplayed all of the english midfielders. and probably the only english players to outplay their counterparts were: 1 - walker was on the team of the tournament, and 2 - guehi (everything i've read has him as england's best performer of the tournament). but even those two are VERY debateable.

* for reference:

Euro 2024 team of the tournament​

Mike Maignan (France); Kyle Walker (England), Manuel Akanji (Switzerland), William Saliba (France), Marc Cucurella (Spain); Dani Olmo (Spain), Rodri (Spain), Fabian Ruiz (Spain); Lamine Yamal (Spain), Jamal Musiala (Germany), Nico Williams (Spain).

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Well, yes, I dont follow La Liga but Spain's players certainly looked better than England's. It wasnt a flukey win. It wasn't just "tactics." England is ALWAYS overrated.

Yes they are overrated as a team. Always are. And many of their players are overvalued and overpriced in the transfer market. But the point is, and the world knows it, this group of English players are simply regarded as superior individually and inferior vs Spain cumulatively.