OK I'm Ranting! I can't stand college BB anymore

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I can't stand the hypocrisy. I can't stand the One and Dones. There I said it. I hate it, it is killing the sport and the ratings reflect.

This has nothing to do with the kids. But these teams, specifically Kentucky and Duke that just gorge themselves and fill up and reload with NBA lottery picks year after are at an incredible advantage talent wise.

I am fine with a kid leaving after a year. Hell, I am fine with them leaving after HS. But again, these one and done's, especially some of the usual suspects year after year, hog all the talent. They have 4-5 kids that go to school for one semester. (Think about it, the One and Done's don't even have to take a test in their 2nd semester because by the time grades come out, the season is over, they are declared).

This has to be fixed. It is just so unfair, and so hypocritical of that rat faced Polack and his Duke sycophants thinking they are so much better than everyone else. It has to be changed. Cal's Cal and UK has always skirted the rules, at least he doesn't portray himself as holier than thou.

I have a solution. You are allowed a MAX of 15 scholarships over any 4 year period. If you recruit 5 kids, you have 4 go pro this year, next year you recruit 5 kids and have 4 go pro, well now you only have 5 scholarships to give out over the next 2 years. Teams like Pitt are limited to the number of scholarships because they aren't losing 3 or 4 players to the pros like UK or Duke. (of course in recent years we have seen Pitt have turnover for other reasons).

I am sure there can ways to work this, tweak it, but something like that needs to be implemented, because there are 3-4 programs now making a mockery of college basketball and the one and dones.

OR....allow them to a) go directly to the NBA out of HS or b) give a 3 year commitment to the college ala baseball.

 

[bayardstreet]

Coach K always looks like he just got a whiff of a really bad fart

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I can't stand the hypocrisy. I can't stand the One and Dones. There I said it. I hate it, it is killing the sport and the ratings reflect.

This has nothing to do with the kids. But these teams, specifically Kentucky and Duke that just gorge themselves and fill up and reload with NBA lottery picks year after are at an incredible advantage talent wise.

I am fine with a kid leaving after a year. Hell, I am fine with them leaving after HS. But again, these one and done's, especially some of the usual suspects year after year, hog all the talent. They have 4-5 kids that go to school for one semester. (Think about it, the One and Done's don't even have to take a test in their 2nd semester because by the time grades come out, the season is over, they are declared).

This has to be fixed. It is just so unfair, and so hypocritical of that rat faced Polack and his Duke sycophants thinking they are so much better than everyone else. It has to be changed. Cal's Cal and UK has always skirted the rules, at least he doesn't portray himself as holier than thou.

I have a solution. You are allowed a MAX of 15 scholarships over any 4 year period. If you recruit 5 kids, you have 4 go pro this year, next year you recruit 5 kids and have 4 go pro, well now you only have 5 scholarships to give out over the next 2 years. Teams like Pitt are limited to the number of scholarships because they aren't losing 3 or 4 players to the pros like UK or Duke. (of course in recent years we have seen Pitt have turnover for other reasons).

I am sure there can ways to work this, tweak it, but something like that needs to be implemented, because there are 3-4 programs now making a mockery of college basketball and the one and dones.

OR....allow them to a) go directly to the NBA out of HS or b) give a 3 year commitment to the college ala baseball.

It is the NBA's rule. I believe the NCAA would like to have it changed. Swofford hinted at this at Media Day.

I think what you ate going to see is the baseball rule but modified. You can go out of HS, but if you don't, you cant declare until after your 2nd year out of HS.

 

[levance2]

They have 4-5 kids that go to school for one semester. (Think about it, the One and Done's don't even have to take a test in their 2nd semester because by the time grades come out, the season is over, they are declared).

I agree with your sentiment, but a program that allowed their players to routinely tank their grades before leaving for the NBA would be in APR trouble very quickly. That's what happened at UConn.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Your never going to change the schools or the coaches elite players want to play for .
Aren’t players like Kithcart and Managuilt who transfer after one yr a one and done for the schools they went too ?
Limit scholarships to 10 or 11 players and award bonus scholarships to schools who graduate their players or all their players are on schedule to graduate .

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

I agree with your sentiment, but a program that allowed their players to routinely tank their grades before leaving for the NBA would be in APR trouble very quickly. That's what happened at UConn.

I don't think the coaches in that situation have any control over players bagging second semester classes unless they want to bench them--highly doubt they really would do that--just haven't seen it happen. Also, I don't see how the NCAA has any control over one and done's not attending class second semester since there is no mechanism to enforce that at the present time.

I do agree there should be a rule that penalizes schools ships for players leaving early for the NBA or to play overseas and I am sure a rule could be crafted if there was a will to create one.

How about something like this--

Lose a ship for 3 years for every player who leaves after one year for 2 years for every player who leaves after 2 years and for 1 year for every player who leaves after 3 or more years without graduating. Under this proposal you not only penalize for knowingly recruiting one and done's going to the pros but also for recruiting and retaining players who never get the benefit of the "free" education. This would also put more emphasis on schools running serious academic support programs to ensure players who won't be going pro at least get the education they deserve in exchange for playing.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Your never going to change the schools or the coaches elite players want to play for .
Aren’t players like Kithcart and Managuilt who transfer after one yr a one and done for the schools they went too ?
Limit scholarships to 10 or 11 players and award bonus scholarships to schools who graduate their players or all their players are on schedule to graduate .

Yeah have some formula. The APR stuff is really a joke. Honestly, how can any of these schools who have multiple one and dones every year achieving these?

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I don't think the coaches in that situation have any control over players bagging second semester classes unless they want to bench them--highly doubt they really would do that--just haven't seen it happen. Also, I don't see how the NCAA has any control over one and done's not attending class second semester since there is no mechanism to enforce that at the present time.

I do agree there should be a rule that penalizes schools ships for players leaving early for the NBA or to play overseas and I am sure a rule could be crafted if there was a will to create one.

How about something like this--

Lose a ship for 3 years for every player who leaves after one year for 2 years for every player who leaves after 2 years and for 1 year for every player who leaves after 3 or more years without graduating. Under this proposal you not only penalize for knowingly recruiting one and done's going to the pros but also for recruiting and retaining players who never get the benefit of the "free" education. This would also put more emphasis on schools running serious academic support programs to ensure players who won't be going pro at least get the education they deserve in exchange for playing.

It would encourage more academic fraud .

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

It would encourage more academic fraud .

Better that--at least it can be investigated--than the current blatant hypocrisy.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

The mockery of this is you are even concentrating the talent MORE now than even back in the UCLA era. When Duke had its great teams with Laettner/Hurley/Hill or the UNLV group with LJ/Augman/Hunt etc...even UConn with Okafor/Gordon/Anderson, etc.. They were great teams because they were talented and they played together for a few years, and they didn't just get 3-4 lottery picks each year because they were already filled with scholarship players.

Plus, fans got to know these teams, you had some continuity who to root for, who not? Contrary to some on here, most people don't sit there and follow HS top 100 lists, the sport is losing this identity.

But it is mostly about hogging all the talent with this glitch in the One and Done, where before you had a Carmelo Anthony or Chris Bosh, but not a team full of them that then is followed by a team full of them followed by another group of the same. That is not fun. It was interesting when UK started this, but now it is just over the top.

Allow kids to go directly to the NBA, stop with this ridiculous "amateur" thing and if they declare and aren't drafted or don't like where they are drafted, they can go to college. But then have to stay 2-3 years before they go back into the draft again.

 

[FordhamIII]

Yes, I'm also tired of all these super one and done teams.

To fix just make the scholarship four years. If the player leaves for any reason the school can't use that scholarship for again.

Would also make it more difficult for coaches to run players off the team and make coaches evaluate better to make sure the player will be a good fit to their program.

There will still be one and dones but spread out over more schools.

 

[levance2]

I don't think the coaches in that situation have any control over players bagging second semester classes unless they want to bench them--highly doubt they really would do that--just haven't seen it happen. Also, I don't see how the NCAA has any control over one and done's not attending class second semester since there is no mechanism to enforce that at the present time.

Your APR considers whether players leaving the program do so in good academic standing. It's not a matter of benching freshmen, but more importantly putting them in a no-lose situation to complete a year in good standing.

Here's a very thorough explanation of why UConn was ineligible for the NCAAs because of APR:
https://www.theuconnblog.com/2012/4/24/2971329/what-uconns-apr-score-actually-measures

If anything, guys leaving for the draft actually makes academic performance while enrolled even more important because you are voiding a potential retention credit.

Of the 20 possible APR points UConn failed to earn over the three year stretch from 2007-08 to 2010-11, 17 (85%) were lost via players that were leaving the team. While transfers have the opportunity to waive their point deduction with good grades, there is no difference in the deduction amount between a player who transfers with a sub-2.6 GPA (or to a junior college) and a player who leaves school without graduating.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Yes, I'm also tired of all these super one and done teams.

To fix just make the scholarship four years. If the player leaves for any reason the school can't use that scholarship for again.

Would also make it more difficult for coaches to run players off the team and make coaches evaluate better to make sure the player will be a good fit to their program.

There will still be one and dones but spread out over more schools.

I like this. The only exception I would make if coaches leave, players transfer, the schools can regain those schollies.

 

[upj87]

Coach K always looks like he just got a whiff of a really bad fart

spot on. may I use that?

 

[Fredact]

Yes, I'm also tired of all these super one and done teams.

To fix just make the scholarship four years. If the player leaves for any reason the school can't use that scholarship for again.

Would also make it more difficult for coaches to run players off the team and make coaches evaluate better to make sure the player will be a good fit to their program.

There will still be one and dones but spread out over more schools.

100% agree with this. And the NCAA could do this and whatever rules the NBA puts in is irrelevant. Probably need to increase the scholarships to 15.

 

[Pitt79]

Allow kids to go directly to the NBA, stop with this ridiculous "amateur" thing and if they declare and aren't drafted or don't like where they are drafted, they can go to college. But then have to stay 2-3 years before they go back into the draft again.

THIS^^^ and whoever fails, fails, work at McDonalds F-U. I mean why should we care if someone wasn't as good as they thought they are? I'm thinking 2 of 3 of the Big Baller's kids won't make the NBA.

 

[BFo8]

THIS^^^ and whoever fails, fails, work at McDonalds F-U. I mean why should we care if someone wasn't as good as they thought they are? I'm thinking 2 of 3 of the Big Baller's kids won't make the NBA.

One of his kids has literally zero chance, he’s a mid major type player.

Who knows about the other one, he has a lot of talent but he’s 16 years old. His dad pulling him out of school and sticking him in Lithuania is not going to help his chances.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

One of his kids has literally zero chance, he’s a mid major type player.

Who knows about the other one, he has a lot of talent but he’s 16 years old. His dad pulling him out of school and sticking him in Lithuania is not going to help his chances.

I wouldn't formulate rules to accomodate or mitigate a complete whack job's handling of his children. CYS should be involved, not the NCAA.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Your never going to change the schools or the coaches elite players want to play for .
Aren’t players like Kithcart and Managuilt who transfer after one yr a one and done for the schools they went too ?
Limit scholarships to 10 or 11 players and award bonus scholarships to schools who graduate their players or all their players are on schedule to graduate .

Yeah have some formula. The APR stuff is really a joke. Honestly, how can any of these schools who have multiple one and dones every year achieving these?

Ummm, easy, they pass the kids through. APR just made college "easier" for football and basketball players. Now they get a free pass

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Ummm, easy, they pass the kids through. APR just made college "easier" for football and basketball players. Now they get a free pass

Most of them are there to play their sport . The ones who want an education make sure they get one .

 

[Pittx9]

Isn't baseball you either go out of high school or go to college for at least 2 years? I could be wrong but I could've sworn it was only a minimum of 2 years if you went to college.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Isn't baseball you either go out of high school or go to college for at least 2 years? I could be wrong but I could've sworn it was only a minimum of 2 years if you went to college.

Three, not two. But there are exceptions to that, for instance if you go to a juco you can enter the draft in two years, after your juco eligibility is up.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Three, not two. But there are exceptions to that, for instance if you go to a juco you can enter the draft in two years, after your juco eligibility is up.

Three years is the answer!

For teams like Kentucky, Duke, i.e. The True Bluebloods one year is fine since they seem to "reload" each year with top talent.
For most everyone else losing a top player after year one (for example Adams) really hurts a team and the program.

If players were required to stay in college for three years, more one timer players might skip the U route, and go directly to the NBA which would be good for college basketball.

IMO a minor leauge is necessary to stablize U basketball to sort out those players who are interested in an education and those who aren't.

"its five o'clock somewhere"
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go Pitt & CSU Rams!

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

The d-league/nba two way contract should be increased year one to encourage the one and done types who aren't interested in their education to just skip college. Eliminate the one and done rule then. The players association could probably support that deal but it might be hard to get the owners to pony up when the NCAA is doing the job for them for free. Then those who aren't sure of their pro prospects or who want to get a degree could follow the same rules as now.

The problem is the guaranteed money in the two way contracts is "only" $75,000 and the d-league salaries for players not in the hybrid nba/d-league contracts is only $25,00 a year. That's not the kind of money to deter many players from just going to Kentucky and getting that sort of money under the table.

This is a relatively small number of players -- something like 20 per year at most in the whole country? I wouldn't change the whole scholarship structure or whatever just because of Kentucky and Duke. Come elite eight time I will probably be rooting for Villanova (ugh I know, I know) and Wichita State because I enjoy watching teams who have chemistry that Cal's teams almost never have due to turnover.

 

[ameoba defense]

The problem is the guaranteed money in the two way contracts is "only" $75,000 and the d-league salaries for players not in the hybrid nba/d-league contracts is only $25,00 a year. That's not the kind of money to deter many players from just going to Kentucky and getting that sort of money under the table.

.

You could raise that $25,000 to $50,000, which is around what a solid job would pay, and more than enough to live off of. If they choose not to go that route, and they go to college, they have to do 3 years. The old system benefited the NBA, because the top players were already famous before they reached the league, making them easy to promote. That's not the case with players who only stay one year.

 

[eastcoasthoops]

The mockery of this is you are even concentrating the talent MORE now than even back in the UCLA era. When Duke had its great teams with Laettner/Hurley/Hill or the UNLV group with LJ/Augman/Hunt etc...even UConn with Okafor/Gordon/Anderson, etc.. They were great teams because they were talented and they played together for a few years, and they didn't just get 3-4 lottery picks each year because they were already filled with scholarship players.

Plus, fans got to know these teams, you had some continuity who to root for, who not? Contrary to some on here, most people don't sit there and follow HS top 100 lists, the sport is losing this identity.

But it is mostly about hogging all the talent with this glitch in the One and Done, where before you had a Carmelo Anthony or Chris Bosh, but not a team full of them that then is followed by a team full of them followed by another group of the same. That is not fun. It was interesting when UK started this, but now it is just over the top.

Allow kids to go directly to the NBA, stop with this ridiculous "amateur" thing and if they declare and aren't drafted or don't like where they are drafted, they can go to college. But then have to stay 2-3 years before they go back into the draft again.

Lets be honest, major college athletics is a giant lie. It is professional sports without a payroll for the primary employees. And the academic component is really a necessary evil to reach the desired outcome....revenue. Football and Men's basketball should go the route of professional hockey. A "Juniors" system. It already exists to some degree with the AAU world.

The entrepreneurs who have tried to compete with the NFL and NBA have missed the real opportunity. Compete with the NCAA.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Isn't baseball you either go out of high school or go to college for at least 2 years? I could be wrong but I could've sworn it was only a minimum of 2 years if you went to college.

3 years

 

[Fsgolfdr]

What’s to stop anyone from playing one yr then leaving to play pro ball . Punishing a school is unfair , was Pitt responsible for Adams leaving ?
I don’t see why no ones challenged the legality of not allowing anyone over the age of 18 the right to earn a living .
Taking the top 15-20 guys out of college just makes the game less attractive to advertisers .

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

What’s to stop anyone from playing one yr then leaving to play pro ball . Punishing a school is unfair , was Pitt responsible for Adams leaving ?
I don’t see why no ones challenged the legality of not allowing anyone over the age of 18 the right to earn a living .
Taking the top 15-20 guys out of college just makes the game less attractive to advertisers .

It has been challenged, with Maurice Clarette of Ohio State in football being a relatively recent example. The problem is that every time the players lose in court, because the leagues' collective bargaining deals with the union spell out the terms and conditions of employment, and the courts don't like to overturn things that management and unions have agreed to in their contracts.

 

[Pitt79]

Taking the top 15-20 guys out of college just makes the game less attractive to advertisers .

You really think so? Personally I don't think the vast majority of college basketball fans would know the difference. Only the top 1% of recruiting nerds know who the best high school players are, so if they all went pro, players 20-40 would be the best and that's all they'd know. Like I never heard of Marvin Bagley until I watched Duke vs. Pitt, I bet 90% of the typical basketball fan, who follows a school is the same.

 

[Pittnerski]

Why would any top recruit go straight to the NBA/DLeague on a 2 way contract? They'd make $75k in the D league. Bowan was making $100k tax free for signing up to play at Louisville.

 

[pittbb80]

Lets be honest, major college athletics is a giant lie. It is professional sports without a payroll for the primary employees. And the academic component is really a necessary evil to reach the desired outcome....revenue. Football and Men's basketball should go the route of professional hockey. A "Juniors" system. It already exists to some degree with the AAU world.

The entrepreneurs who have tried to compete with the NFL and NBA have missed the real opportunity. Compete with the NCAA.

You hit the nail on the head. NCAA Hoops supports the NBA rule because those talented kids help the blue bloods (and lets face it thats what the NCAA is all about......they could care less about the middle of the pack smaller schools) maintain their strangle hold on the rest of the competition. It also saves the NBA millions of dollars associated with 1) missing on HS prospects (they get an extra year to evaluate talent at higher levels of competition) 2) signing kids and allowing them time to mature etc.

 

[JS School]

Why would any top recruit go straight to the NBA/DLeague on a 2 way contract? They'd make $75k in the D league. Bowan was making $100k tax free for signing up to play at Louisville.

I just watched a little of an NBA G league (is that what it's called now?) game at a sports bar at lunch. From what I could see there were two (2) people in the stands. There were probably a few more out of view of the tv cameras, but why does the NBA even bother with this if they are paying the players $ 75K? College hoops has to be the best minor league system imaginable.

 

[JS School]

Yes, I'm also tired of all these super one and done teams.

To fix just make the scholarship four years. If the player leaves for any reason the school can't use that scholarship for again.

Would also make it more difficult for coaches to run players off the team and make coaches evaluate better to make sure the player will be a good fit to their program.

There will still be one and dones but spread out over more schools.

I've always been in favor of this idea. Let the big money schools that disagree and ESPN take the NCAA and go start their own 16 or 20 team minor league. All the other schools should start a new enforcement organization and have everyone on an even playing field.

 

[eastcoasthoops]

I've always been in favor of this idea. Let the big money schools that disagree and ESPN take the NCAA and go start their own 16 or 20 team minor league. All the other schools should start a new enforcement organization and have everyone on an even playing field.

The "other" schools won't because they are making too much money.

 

[levance2]

I just watched a little of an NBA G league (is that what it's called now?) game at a sports bar at lunch. From what I could see there were two (2) people in the stands. There were probably a few more out of view of the tv cameras, but why does the NBA even bother with this if they are paying the players $ 75K? College hoops has to be the best minor league system imaginable.

That is why the "pay the players" argument is so silly. The money only exists because the teams are affiliated with schools. The same kids in any other league would make peanuts.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

You really think so? Personally I don't think the vast majority of college basketball fans would know the difference. Only the top 1% of recruiting nerds know who the best high school players are, so if they all went pro, players 20-40 would be the best and that's all they'd know. Like I never heard of Marvin Bagley until I watched Duke vs. Pitt, I bet 90% of the typical basketball fan, who follows a school is the same.

I knew who Bagley was. But I had no idea of the other guys. I looked at a 2018 NBA Mock Draft and I heard of like 6 or 7 of the players. More than half were Freshmen. A couple were HS kids who sat out an extra year (not sure how that was possible), a couple more were Euros, the rest were Sophs and Grayson Allen and Miles Bridges were the only two upperclassmen.

Since now kids are going to Europe for a year, or even sitting out a year, instead of going the college route (which I applaud them for not wanting to engage in the hypocrisy) it is time to allow straight to the NBA draft out of HS. Provided you are 18 or something like that by the draft date. Then lock the kids in for 2 years in college before being eligible again.

Now with the NBA Development league more organized, it makes more sense.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

I just watched a little of an NBA G league (is that what it's called now?) game at a sports bar at lunch. From what I could see there were two (2) people in the stands. There were probably a few more out of view of the tv cameras, but why does the NBA even bother with this if they are paying the players $ 75K?
College hoops has to be the best minor league system imaginable.

good question. my take:
because they can afford it
because teams want reserves to keep their roster at 15 when when they can only play 13 a night and need even a 16th and 17th guy due to injuries. so you have two way contracts
because player development happens there
because tech billionaires want play "lets experiment
with basketball" and own those teams to try weird stuff out
because they want to pay african americans to stick around in the US and not go to europe or china while they follow their dream to play in the NBA
because they want to pay Europeans who were sent down to the D league their full nba salary while they develop so they don't just decide to play in Turkey for three extra years.

it's not that expensive for the NBA to run the WNBA and G league at a break even or loss level when the salaries of those entire LEAGUES are less than a single max contract of, say, Joel Embiid.

 

[R-M-U-h-o-o-p-s-f-a-n]

Your never going to change the schools or the coaches elite players want to play for .
Aren’t players like Kithcart and Managuilt who transfer after one yr a one and done for the schools they went too ?
Limit scholarships to 10 or 11 players and award bonus scholarships to schools who graduate their players or all their players are on schedule to graduate .

Granting more to those that simply graduate players would definitely help the high majors & hurt the mid-majors that lose a lot of players due to transferring.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Granting more to those that simply graduate players would definitely help the high majors & hurt the mid-majors that lose a lot of players due to transferring.

Kids that transfer that are on schedule are not counted against you .

 

[R-M-U-h-o-o-p-s-f-a-n]

Kids that transfer that are on schedule are not counted against you .

True but in his proposal they grant extra Sholarships to those that graduate players. Guess mid-majors could just recruit more JUCO's to help counter it.