OT: Barry Bonds
- Thread starter Slick Manager of Champs
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The thing about Clemente, is his power numbers (and Stargell's) would have been much greater if they didn't play in Forbes Field, but also in the deadball era where Bob Gibson had that season with like a 1.12 ERA.
This is hilarious! Who the hell is Andy Van Slyke? This was his story to massage his own bloated ego. Did Roberto Clemente move over when Gene Clines told him to? Did Dave Parker take orders from Omar Moreno?
people here dislike bonds because of his continued epic failures in the post season, topped off with him throwing what appeared to be a whiffle ball in from short left field against bream.
Had he even hit his weight in '90, '91 or '92 post seasons, he'd be much more liked. Regardless, he wasn't staying in '93.
Had he even hit his weight in '90, '91 or '92 post seasons, he'd be much more liked. Regardless, he wasn't staying in '93.
Who the hell is Andy Van Slyke?...a much, much better defensive outfielder than Bonds ever was, that's who...so your Clemente and Parker analogy here makes no sense...
are you really comparing Bonds defensively to Andy Van Skyke? just move on from this debate because BB isn't even in the same league as AVS. He moved him to left field when he came here from st. Louis and despite being, well white, he had more range than him as well. The arm, not even in the same universe...
Which had what to do with what? Mickey Mantle (white guy) had pretty good range, and by the time I got to see him, he was in his 30s and had knees like Joe Namath. I can just imagine what he would have been like 10 years earlier.
I think since Van Slyke was white, white Pittsburghers thought he should have been able to tell Barry Bonds what to do and Barry Bonds's only response should have been "yes, sir".
Like I said Van Slyke made that story up to massage his own bloated ego. Few people really compared the two players' defense in the 90s while they were both here.
And, if Andy Van Slyke was so certain where that ball was going to be hit, why wasn't he in better position to have made the play on that ball?
Geez, wh is it always about race, every time. they are baseball players, who cares? White Pittsburghers thought AVS should have been able to tell Barry Bonds what to do? What the hell does that even mean?
You are right, few people did compare the two players defense while they were here. Barry couldn't play center so they traded Pena to get a much better defensive player so they could move barry to left field. Barry couldn't play center, they tried early in his career but realized he doesn't have the range or the arm so they got Van Slyke. there is no comparison with regards to their defense. in his prime, in Pittsburgh, he was the premiere defensive center fielder..
Bonds was a great player, a HOF player but nobody was telling him what to do. Not andy, not Leyland, not Pittsburgh, not ownership, nobody.
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Hyperbole is awesome.
You think if Mays, Aaron, Clemente, Ruth, Gehrig, etc...... had access to steroids they wouldnt have smashed Bonds numbers?
Old argument, but saying Bonds was one of the best of his era, fine. Best of all time is kinda crazy
Bonds was busy roid raging his wife at the time to care
https://www.businessinsider.com/what-athletes-looked-like-before-and-after-they-used-steroids-2013-6
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Because it absolutely is about race. Van Slyke, an inferior player to Bonds is beloved by white Pittsburghers while Bonds is hated to the point that this nonsense about Bonds not moving when told to by Van Slyke is still being brought up on message boards nearly thirty years later.
Again, I ask, if Andy Van Slyke knew where Francisco Cabrera was going to hit the ball why didn’t he move himself into better position to make the play seeing how he was the “far better” defensive player?
I don't see this AVS love fest to be honest. guy was a really good player. Pittsburghers not liking barry had nothing to do with skin color. plenty of former athletes that are beloved in this city who are black. barry's demise in Pittsburgh lore is his own doing.
Cabrera hit a line drive between the shortstop and 3rd basemen. You are asking us why andy van slyke didn't line up in shallow left field? That's a serious question?
Yes, since some are implying that he knew exactly where the ball was going, I am. If he had the authority to position Barry Bonds, he should have better positioned himself.
I don't really want to get into this argument but... You are doing what too many pundits and fans do. Confusing the words player and hitter. Barry Bond was a better hitter than Van Slyke. He wasn't a better player than AVS.
Willy Mays was a better POWER hitter than Roberto Clemente. He wasn't a better PLAYER than Roberto Clemente.
People, Ron Cook for example, who say Bonds was the best player in Pirate history are off their rockers.
Now that is totally being Pittsburgh-centric. Giving Willie Mays his due does not detract one bit from Roberto Clemente being ONE OF the greatest ever.
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If you think that Andy Van Slyke was a better baseball player than Barry Bonds you really ought to stop commenting on baseball, because you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
If you think that Roberto Clemente was a better baseball player than Willie Mays you really ought to stop commenting on baseball, because you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
And yet the two of them played at the same time in an era when Gold Glove voting for outfielders was positionless, and somehow Bonds managed to win 8 of them while Van Slyke was winning 5.
Hey, it was probably because Bonds was so popular with the media.
No big fan of either guy, but most people's dislike of Bonds is because he was a first class jerk! He would refuse to sign balls, etc. for charities like Children's hospital, etc. He treated the clubhouse boys like total crap. They hated him, as did most people who ever met him.
Leyland put him in his place in the well publicized tirade, and he behaved as a ballplayer, but continued to be a total jagoff off the field.
Van Slyke was a phony as well. Low keyed, but a jag as well.
He could throw the baseball though. Remember between innings at Three Rivers when the OF'ers would toss the ball back and forth. He ALWAYS threw the ball over a fence to a guy sitting on a high bench in the bullpen off the RF line from straightaway center field. He ALWAYS hit the guy's glove, the guy never had to move it. That was impressive.
He was an excellent centerfielder, had all the tools.
Bonds could run, catch the ball, but he had a candy arm.
He was an excellent hitter, quick hands, even showed good power prior to juicing.
He was NEVER going to resign with Pittsburgh. NEVER!
Leyland put him in his place in the well publicized tirade, and he behaved as a ballplayer, but continued to be a total jagoff off the field.
Van Slyke was a phony as well. Low keyed, but a jag as well.
He could throw the baseball though. Remember between innings at Three Rivers when the OF'ers would toss the ball back and forth. He ALWAYS threw the ball over a fence to a guy sitting on a high bench in the bullpen off the RF line from straightaway center field. He ALWAYS hit the guy's glove, the guy never had to move it. That was impressive.
He was an excellent centerfielder, had all the tools.
Bonds could run, catch the ball, but he had a candy arm.
He was an excellent hitter, quick hands, even showed good power prior to juicing.
He was NEVER going to resign with Pittsburgh. NEVER!
And Bonds is on just about any list of top 10 left fielders of all time. Number 2 on a list ESPN produced in 2016. Bleacher Report had him as the number 2 outfielder ever.
Even if you quibble with the placement he’s in
ELITE company. It blows my mind that people continue to bag on him for his defense. If you don’t understand how great he was defensively - even with his noodle arm (which was quite accurate) - you’re either clueless or blinded by hatred as I said earlier.
And as I said earlier. I’m no fan of Bonds - agree with what Freeport said.
The year after he left I bumped into a couple of guys who were still on the team. Let’s just say they didn’t have anything good to say either so it’s not hard to believe he was a dick in he clubhouse as well. Just overall not a good guy.
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Bonds isn't just on the list of top 10 left fielders of all time. Geez, you'd have to be a blithering idiot to not put him on that list. Bonds is on the list of the top 10 baseball players of all time. And he's almost certainly in the top half of the list.
And yeah, he may very well be on the list of top 10 baseball arseholes of all time too. And maybe in the top half of that list as well.
The interview in the Pirate broadcast booth had to be fun. Am I misremembering but didn’t Greg Brown take every opportunity he ever got to completely and absolutely trash Bonds??
Then after it was over Rock was mumbling something about not signing a card for Barry now, Rock wanted a signed ball once????
That must have been a hoot when Bonds first dropped in there.
Then after it was over Rock was mumbling something about not signing a card for Barry now, Rock wanted a signed ball once????
That must have been a hoot when Bonds first dropped in there.
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Ahh no bologna, he was definitely a much better defensive outfielder than Bonds.
A couple of years ago, the Pirates were playing an afternoon game and they honored Bonds for something. He attended the game at PNC Park for the ceremonies. I had like a 3:00 flight or something like that, the Pirate game was still on, guess who was at the gate for my flight? Yes, Barry Lamar Bonds.
I was sitting three rows behind Andy Van Slyke on his special night a week ago. He left early too.
Top five all time? OMG. You are nuts. I loved him as a player but top five?
There is no universe in which AVS is a better baseball player than Bonds. Your opinion is bad.
Didn't say he was. But in the overall game Bonds wasn't a better player. just and obviously better hitter.
Yeah, totally about race, that is why Pittsburgh hates Willie Stargell and Roberto Clemente so much, Mean Joe and Lynn Swann, Bettis and Jay Hay
