OT: Big spending Cubs and "Mr. Planter Fasciatis" on the brink of elimination!

[FreeportPanther]

Big spending Cubs, whose payroll is $80 million more than the Indians are on the brink of elimination from the World Series. Proving once again that spending lots of money in MLB does not ensure success!
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy than the Cub's manager.
Three cheers for Beaver Falls own Terry Francona. A proven winner!!

 

[TD_6082]

Even if the Cubs lose the Series, I don't think they are going to go away any time soon.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Even if the Cubs lose the Series, I don't think they are going to go away any time soon.

Of course they won't, they've been around for over 100 years!
But the fact remains spending $$$ does not ensure success!

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

Ain't over yet! Don't jinx the Tribe!

 

[Pittbaseball11]

As always, the biggest benefit of a large payroll is being able to spend your way out of your mistakes and increase your margin of error. It's not a reflection of dollar-for-dollar talent level in today's game. The talent in MLB is disproportionately concentrated in players under 30 years old, which is where you find your cheap, team control salaries.

The Indians have a nice core, I hope they don't spend too much this offseason and cripple themselves going forward because of this year's success (regardless of whether they win or lose this series). The Royals' GM pretty much came out and said they spent way more than they were comfortable with this year, hopefully the Indians don't suffer the same fate. They could remain relevant for several years if they manage themselves well, IMO.

Edit: Here's the tweet about the Royals' payroll this year. They maxed out to capitalize on the end of their window, IMO. Hosmer and Co. are about to hit free agency and my guess is they don't re-sign them:

 

[FireballZ]

Going to the Workd Series isn't success?

 

[UptownPrivileges]

Cubs will ante up... They're desperate !

 

[FreeportPanther]

Going to the Workd Series isn't success?

Not according to some of the baseball guru's who frequent this board. Only winning it is "success"!

 

[thebadby2]

Going to the Workd Series isn't success?

Right. For the first time in 70 years no less. I very much doubt the Cubs fans are bitching about their high payroll.

Plus, why it the OP bashing Joe Maddon? Good manager, class act.

I'm rooting for the Tribe myself, but I always have to shake my head at posts like the OP in this thread.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Right. For the first time in 70 years no less. I very much doubt the Cubs fans are bitching about their high payroll.

Plus, why it the OP bashing Joe Maddon? Good manager, class act.

I'm rooting for the Tribe myself, but I always have to shake my head at posts like the OP in this thread.

You don't remember the Cub's managers smart ass ridiculing statement when his player cheap shotted Kang and tore up his knee?

He said he heard Kang had planter fasciatis! What a smug asshole. Real class act!
Shake your head all you want.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Cubs will ante up... They're desperate !

Could see them trading for pitching this offseason. Free agent market is bad again and this past season's latest round of flops might have teams hesitant to go into it too aggressively.

They've already said they probably won't re-sign Arrieta after next year, so a trade could bolster their rotation for his final year and then give them a couple years of a solid pitcher to soften the blow once Arrieta walks.

 

[JD1976]

Yeah the Cubs have spent some money on pitching, but the majority of their core lineup is young and was developed through their system.

Bryant, Schwarber, Addison Russell, etc are products of not missing on top draft picks and excellent scouting and trading.

 

[Piranha]

Big spending Cubs, whose payroll is $80 million more than the Indians are on the brink of elimination from the World Series. Proving once again that spending lots of money in MLB does not ensure success!
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy than the Cub's manager.
Three cheers for Beaver Falls own Terry Francona. A proven winner!!

Tito is the best manager in baseball. I hope the Tribe win as well. He is actually from New Brighton.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Yeah the Cubs have spent some money on pitching, but the majority of their core lineup is young and was developed through their system.

Bryant, Schwarber, Addison Russell, etc are products of not missing on top draft picks and excellent scouting and trading.

Lackey, Lester, Heyward, Chapman. Don't forget them!

 

[FreeportPanther]

Tito is the best manager in baseball. I hope the Tribe win as well. He is actually from New Brighton.

Sorry, meant to say Beaver County.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Tito is the best manager in baseball. I hope the Tribe win as well. He is actually from New Brighton.

It's truly amazing to see the advantages gained by managers when they are the first to break from tradition and listen to the stat nerds. His bullpen usage has been superb.

 

[thebadby2]

You don't remember the Cub's managers smart ass ridiculing statement when his player cheap shotted Kang and tore up his knee?

He said he heard Kang had planter fasciatis! What a smug asshole. Real class act!
Shake your head all you want.

Here's what I do remember:

1. It was a totally clean play as formally acknowledged by Kang and the Pirates organization;

2. Maddon made that comment right after the game, and the nature and extent of Kang's injury wasn't known until several hours later; and

3. Maddon issued a public explanation after the severity of the injury became known that he and a number of Cubs players had been told on the field that it was plantar fasciitis, and that there's no way he would intentionally make light of an injury to an opposing player.

So yeah, I'll keep shaking my head at your knucklehead post. That said, for my own reasons that have nothing to do with Joe Maddon or the Pirates, go Tribe.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Maddon issued a public explanation after the severity of the injury became known that he and a number of Cubs players had been told on the field that it was plantar fasciitis,

Anyone who even has a passing familiarity with plantar fasciitis, and a major league manager almost certainly does because he has almost certainly been around players who have had it, knows that there is a zero percent chance that Kang's injury was plantar fasciitis. And I mean that literally, a zero percent chance. That quote was always BS designed to deflect blame from him saying something absolutely asinine.

And the fact that the Pirates didn't make a bigger deal out of the play is a sign that the Pirates and Kang have a lot more class than Maddon does. Because that slide was vicious. When the first thing that your body hits on a slide isn't the ground, it's the opponent's knee, that's a dirty play. 100% of the time.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Here's what I do remember:

1. It was a totally clean play as formally acknowledged by Kang and the Pirates organization;

2. Maddon made that comment right after the game, and the nature and extent of Kang's injury wasn't known until several hours later; and

3. Maddon issued a public explanation after the severity of the injury became known that he and a number of Cubs players had been told on the field that it was plantar fasciitis, and that there's no way he would intentionally make light of an injury to an opposing player.

So yeah, I'll keep shaking my head at your knucklehead post. That said, for my own reasons that have nothing to do with Joe Maddon or the Pirates, go Tribe.

If you think that is how it all went down you clearly weren't paying attention or are a Cubs fan. Kang clearly had a very serious knee injury...not sure how anyone, especially someone as intelligent as Maddon seems to be, would interpret that as plantar fasciitis. Nothing against the dude and his team otherwise, but they became enemy number one on that day. Terry Francona is a class act and deserves HOF consideration after what he has done with the Sox and Indians, provided the Indians can close it out. His success dwarfs Maddon's (which is amazing considering how his major league managing career started in Philly).

Also can't stand the Cubs for the continued vilification of Bartman.

And getting to the WS is definitely success but a WS loss doesn't do much for a fan base. I was a Phillies fan in my youth (mid 80s to late 90s) and their WS loss was more painful than all of those losing seasons combined.

If the Indians do win the WS, that leaves only the Superbowl not in the hands of the Cleveland-Pittsburgh corridor. Would be great if the Steelers could turn it around and get it done.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Here's what I do remember:

1. It was a totally clean play as formally acknowledged by Kang and the Pirates organization;

2. Maddon made that comment right after the game, and the nature and extent of Kang's injury wasn't known until several hours later; and

3. Maddon issued a public explanation after the severity of the injury became known that he and a number of Cubs players had been told on the field that it was plantar fasciitis, and that there's no way he would intentionally make light of an injury to an opposing player.

So yeah, I'll keep shaking my head at your knucklehead post. That said, for my own reasons that have nothing to do with Joe Maddon or the Pirates, go Tribe.

Only in your alternate universe.
If you truly believe anything you wrote above, you are a total rube. Your anti Pirate anti Nutting bias has softened your brain!

 

[thebadby2]

Only in your alternate universe.
If you truly believe anything you wrote above, you are a total rube. Your anti Pirate anti Nutting bias has softened your brain!

I am a lifelong metro-Detroiter and Tigers fan. I root for the Pirates on a passing basis when they're good and couldn't really give a flying F about them or Nutting. Other than that you have me pegged. And here's a few words about the play from the people who actually play the game, not the dummies who watch it on TV and think they know what's up:

Kang: "It is unfortunate that what would be considered heads-up baseball would cause such a serious injury," the statement read. "That said, Coghlan was playing the game the way it should be played. I'm confident he meant me no harm. I appreciate everyone's support."

"We're taught to go in hard; we're taught to go in to get the guy off their feet," second baseman Neil Walker said. "Unfortunately, this led to a situation where we have one of our hottest hitters out for probably an extended period of time."

Coghlan said he checked in on Kang, sent a letter to the Pirates' clubhouse after the game and hated to see Kang injured. But he didn't feel the slide was out of line, nor did the Pirates accuse Coghlan of a dirty play.

"It's not like he went way out one way or the other," Pirates manager Clint Hurdle said. "It's a hard slide."

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I am a lifelong metro-Detroiter and Tigers fan. I root for the Pirates on a passing basis when they're good and couldn't really give a flying F about them or Nutting. Other than that you have me pegged. And here's a few words about the play from the people who actually play the game, not the dummies who watch it on TV and think they know what's up:

Kang: "It is unfortunate that what would be considered heads-up baseball would cause such a serious injury," the statement read. "That said, Coghlan was playing the game the way it should be played. I'm confident he meant me no harm. I appreciate everyone's support."

"We're taught to go in hard; we're taught to go in to get the guy off their feet," second baseman Neil Walker said. "Unfortunately, this led to a situation where we have one of our hottest hitters out for probably an extended period of time."

Coghlan said he checked in on Kang, sent a letter to the Pirates' clubhouse after the game and hated to see Kang injured. But he didn't feel the slide was out of line, nor did the Pirates accuse Coghlan of a dirty play.

"It's not like he went way out one way or the other," Pirates manager Clint Hurdle said. "It's a hard slide."

Thank you for proving my point that the Pirates were much classier than Maddon was.

 

[FreeportPanther]

I am a lifelong metro-Detroiter and Tigers fan. I root for the Pirates on a passing basis when they're good and couldn't really give a flying F about them or Nutting. Other than that you have me pegged. And here's a few words about the play from the people who actually play the game, not the dummies who watch it on TV and think they know what's up:

Kang: "It is unfortunate that what would be considered heads-up baseball would cause such a serious injury," the statement read. "That said, Coghlan was playing the game the way it should be played. I'm confident he meant me no harm. I appreciate everyone's support."

"We're taught to go in hard; we're taught to go in to get the guy off their feet," second baseman Neil Walker said. "Unfortunately, this led to a situation where we have one of our hottest hitters out for probably an extended period of time."

Coghlan said he checked in on Kang, sent a letter to the Pirates' clubhouse after the game and hated to see Kang injured. But he didn't feel the slide was out of line, nor did the Pirates accuse Coghlan of a dirty play.

"It's not like he went way out one way or the other," Pirates manager Clint Hurdle said. "It's a hard slide."

And since, baseball changed the rule and outlawed the slide.

None of that excuses the plantar fasciatis wisecrack from Maddon. Low class, actually NO CLASS!

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Even if the Cubs lose the Series, I don't think they are going to go away any time soon.

No...but you never know. Rizzo and Arrieta could have injuries next year. They have a great team, but there are no absolutes.

 

[h2p_5150]

Joe Maddon is a genius in his own mind. He's a good manager with a quirky personality who is good with the media, so he is made out to be a savant. In reality, his in-game managing skills have been poor this post-season, and Francona is far better.

 

[wbrpanther]

Big spending Cubs, whose payroll is $80 million more than the Indians are on the brink of elimination from the World Series. Proving once again that spending lots of money in MLB does not ensure success!
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy than the Cub's manager.
Three cheers for Beaver Falls own Terry Francona. A proven winner!!

Careful. They didn't lose yet.

 

[wbrpanther]

No...but you never know. Rizzo and Arrieta could have injuries next year. They have a great team, but there are no absolutes.

For sure. Maybe 4 of their top players have terrible years next year. As Pirates fans know, that's a possibility.

 

[USN_Panther]

Careful. They didn't lose yet.

I don't think the Cubs organisation has any resiliency whatsoever. They are already blaming the curse or Steve Bartman. They are not coming back from down 3-1.

 

[chethejet]

Cubs are not the NY Yankees of Dodgers who spend big time. Cubs are well managed and have a roster that is still on the come. They have little pitching in the organization, but they can supplement pitching by trade or FA. Do they make mistakes, yes. But no team in the National League can present a roster that talented.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Cubs are not the NY Yankees of Dodgers who spend big time. Cubs are well managed and have a roster that is still on the come. They have little pitching in the organization, but they can supplement pitching by trade or FA. Do they make mistakes, yes. But no team in the National League can present a roster that talented.

They used to spend big. You're right, very well managed now though.

Dodgers are going to be the same. Andrew Friedman was brought in specifically to slash payroll and get rid of the dead weight while still maintaining a winning organization.

I'm interested to see what happens with the Yankees now that Teixeira and A-Rod are off the payroll. I'm sure they'd love to dump Sabathia but doubt there are any takers. They've always been about spending, but it's sunk them big time recently. Wouldn't shock me if they actually kept their current stash of prospects and young guns instead of trading them for old guys.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Well it is 3-2. As much as I don't like rooting for Cleveland, I can't stand Maddon and his smugness.

 

[yesjayme]

Just a little FYI. I grew up with Joe Maddon in Hazleton, and he's a great guy from a wonderful family. What you see as smugness, I see as a typical coal region trait.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Just a little FYI. I grew up with Joe Maddon in Hazleton, and he's a great guy from a wonderful family. What you see as smugness, I see as a typical coal region trait.

Yes because here in Western Pa we don't have that "typical coal region" traits.

 

[Delpanther]

Big spending Cubs, whose payroll is $80 million more than the Indians are on the brink of elimination from the World Series. Proving once again that spending lots of money in MLB does not ensure success!
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy than the Cub's manager.
Three cheers for Beaver Falls own Terry Francona. A proven winner!!

Is it Buctober yet? Call me when Nutsack gets his roster of garbage to the World Series. Raise the Jolly Roger...there's a boobie prize 10-15 years down the road. But there's kielbasa around the corner and that's what counts.

 

[Pitt79]

Of course they won't, they've been around for over 100 years!
But the fact remains spending $$$ does not ensure success!

But I'd take my chances on spending money if I had a choice.

 

[Panther Holla]

A smart GM who understands how to balance advanced metrics with traditional baseball instincts AND has a big bankroll is a tough combination. The Pirates can play the Cub card excuse every year... I bet Bob Nutting has it laminated. I detest the Cubs but appreciate their approach. I'm rooting for Terry and the Tribe, though.