OT: Bob Gibson's feat that we will never see again...
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Here are some Bob Gibson stories. He was one of the most ornery guys who ever played. But he could back it up - and did:
https://mopupduty.com/bob-gibson-stories-and-anecdotes-040714/
https://mopupduty.com/bob-gibson-stories-and-anecdotes-040714/
I was an avid Pirate fan in the 70s.
I remember him throwing a no hitter against us.
We had a GREAT team then.
Roberto Clemente once broke Gibson's leg with a vicious comeback line drive.
Pitch counts for Gibson were irrelevant because no one could see 1/2 of Gibson's pitches!
Pitch counts for Gibson were irrelevant because no one could see 1/2 of Gibson's pitches!
Gibson was probably the greatest right hander in history. Koufax the best lefty. Gibson was phenomenal. I remember I used to eagerly await the newspaper in the morning to check out my hero Roberto's box score [usually 2 for 4 or 3 for 5], and always wanted to see Gibson's line [usually 0 or 1 runs , 2 or 3 hits].
Bob Euker told a great story piggy backing off the Tim McCarver story. He said he was catching Gibson one time and he called time out to go out to the mound. he got half way there and Gibson growled "what the f**k do you want". Uke nearly pissed his pants an told Gibson "I'm just going out to centerfield to talk to [Curt] Flood".
One game, do or die for the Championship, I'm giving the ball to Bob Gibson...without a doubt!
Surely something has had to evolve in the human arm that has caused pitching to cause so many injuries.
They had that "high mound" in those years, that's always cited, anyway. But a guy like him likely would be dominant in any era. Still, consider the (suspected) lively ball, corked bats, new homer-friendly stadiums, batters hopped up on happy juice, managers who count pitches like Oprah counts calories, etc... who knows.
Been watching baseball for 50 years. If I had to choose one guy to pitch to save my life, I would choose Bob Gibson. One of the best big game pitchers of all time.
1968.
Also the year Denny Mclain won 30 games for Detroit.
That WS between St. Louis and the Tigers was amazing.
Lots of HOF'ers in that one!
Don Drysdale was another mean SOB. He hit more guys probably than anyone. He OWNED the inside of the plate and threw very hard.
Pirates had big Bob Veale. He still has the record for Pirates K's in a game at 17 I think.
He wore glasses as thick as coke bottle bottoms. Always sweated a lot and his glasses steamed up. Had a huge white handkerchief he wiped them with.
Batters were afraid because they didn't think he could see!!
Dizzy Dean saw a batter digging in, patiently watched him, then yelled "Dig it a little deeper, you're going to be laying in it in a minute!"
I am convinced that the problem isn’t young pitchers throwing too much when they are coming up. The problem is they don’t throw enough. That kid that threw the no hitter the other night threw 130 pitches. I guess his arm is stilled attached and in good working order.
McCarver goes to the mound. As he approaches the mound, Gibson yells at him “ get behind the plate because the only thing you know about good pitching is that you can’t hit it! “. McCarver went behind the plate.
It wasn’t just Gibson but he was a huge part of it. Pitchers dominated in 1968 like never before. Carl Yastrzemski won the American League batting crown with a .301 batting average, the only player in that league to hit .300.
My dad had
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My dad had US Steel tickets, on the 1st base line, at Forbes Field. Saw a bunch of pirate games as a youth. Could never see the ball when Veale pitched. Just heard the crack in the catchers mitt. And yes, his glasses were coke bottle thick. He also sweated profusely. Needed that big white hankie.
Veale could bring it. You could always hear a crack. Sometimes it was the catchers mitt. Sometimes it was the crack of the bat as another home run was launched.
Personally, I think it is kids throwing too many types of pitches at a young age and then pitchers being coddled in the minors. Warren Spahn averaged more pitches in a start than some pitchers today throw in two. He pitched 42 complete games one season and lost almost half of them. Never had arm trouble. Said he threw a lot of innings as a kid but never threw anything but fastballs. Thought it developed his arm strength.
Remember the huge chaw he’d have in his mouth. One time he got a hit had to slide into second and swallowed the chaw. Got sick and puked all over the bag.
Sal the Barber Maglie would throw at guys heads before they wore helmets. Game has really changed. As in anything money changes things.Would have loved to have seen Gibson pitch to Bonds, when he was crowding the plate. In fact, alot of pitchers in the sixties would have taken his head off.
That's what Bob Prince would call the "radio pitch" ...... the batter could hear it but couldn't see it.
The barber. One of the all time great nicknames.
A lot of the top-notch pitchers of that era were threats with the bat. Gibson, Drysdale, Spahn, Jim Kaat, Steve Carlton, Ferguson Jenkins, Tom Seaver (OK, I'm combining a couple of eras). Vernon Law of the Pirates wasn't quite the long ball threat that those other guys were, but he could help himself with the bat. Probably the only star pitcher of that era who stunk at the plate was Koufax. Then there were guys who may have been better hitters than they were pitchers (Rick Wise, Tony Cloninger, Earl Wilson). That's why I don't favor the DH. One of the most enjoyable aspects of baseball for me is seeing a pitcher contribute at the plate (not just sacrifice bunts).
Koufax actually was a 1B at the University Of Cincinnati before being converted to a P. As terrible a hitter as he was, it probably was a position change that was a good career move.
1965 World Series. Game 7. Koufax pitches on 2 days rest and wins 1-0. The Dodgers didnt have anyone even warm up in the bullpen - it was his ballgame. Guys today go 5 innings on a weeks rest.Koufax actually was a 1B at the University Of Cincinnati before being converted to a P. As terrible a hitter as he was, it probably was a position change that was a good career move.
Absolutely agree on the DH. A guy to add to your list was Robin Roberts of the Phillies. Frequently used as a pinch-hitter.
Likewise. He struck out the side in the 9th inning. Stargell was one of them and was simply overpowered. Willie Stargell had 48 homers that year and of course the Buccos won the World Series. Gibson was throwing bullets that night and it was the first no hitter thrown at Three Rivers Stadium. I think John Cadalaria was the only other one later on in the decade.
Of course by the time he was 30 his arm had turned to mush to the point where he has lived with pain for the rest of his life too. Which is exactly what teams are afraid of.
Pitching five innings a game has really helped the Pirates. In six weeks, three starters have been on the disabled list. It is not only the Pirates, It is an epidemic that is drowning baseball. It is a part of the sissification of America. We pay slave wages to out military and sleep well with no conscience doing so. And yet we see no problem with starters going 5 innings. Koufax accomplished more by age 30 than every pitcher competing in the game today.
Hurdle has used Joe Musgrove as a pinch-hitter a few times (though I have no idea why).
Dick Tracewski says in the biography of Koufax that Alston wanted to start Drysdale. He still was mad at Koufax for not pitching Game One because it was Yom Kippur.
Tracewski said that Alston was a notorious anti-Semite and would say things to Koufax in the locker room that people couldn’t believe. But, he said there was no way the Dodgers were going to let Drysdale pitch game 7. So as soon as Drysdale went down to the bullpen to start loosening up, Maury Wills went into Alston’s office and told him if Koufax didn’t start, he wasn’t playing. Then came Willie Davis. Then Tommy Davis. At that point, Alston storms out of his office and looks at the other Dodgers lined up to tell him they weren’t playing unless Koufax started, and screams at them “Okay, you ****lovers. You get your wish. Koufax starts. But if he ***** up, it’s on you.”
I guess the team knew what they were doing.
But if Alston hated Koufax because he was Jewish, what were his feelings about Wills and the two Davises, not to mention John Roseboro, Junior Gilliam, . . .
The difference is that the average pitcher today throws their average fast ball 10 mph faster than the average guy did 40 or 50 years ago. I saw something a week or so ago that the average MLB fastball so far this season is over 93 mph. It wasn't all that unusual even 30 years ago for a team to not have one player on the team that reached 90 on a regular basis. Now most teams don't have anyone who doesn't regularly throw 90.
And human arms are simply not made to take that kind of stress. Are there some guys that can do it? Sure, there are. But the only way to find out is to try it, and when it doesn't work the guys arm, for all intents and purposes, explodes. And if you are paying a guy $15 or $20 million a season, or if you hope a guy is good enough that some day he will deserve a contract for $15 or $20 million a season, then why would you take the chance?
Add in the fact that relief pitchers are so much better today than they were at any time in baseball history, again, in large part to the fact that they throw the ball so hard, and why would you want your starters pitching more? Unless they change the rules, lower the mound, move the pitching rubber back, limit the number of pitchers on a roster, something like that, the days of starting pitchers regularly going nine innings are NEVER coming back.
