OT: Coaches cant call "in game" timeouts..

[Pghfan]

sorry if I am joining the party late here, I've been in football mode.. Just saw the new secondary rules taking effect and saw this.. Always thought how absolutely ridiculous a coach can call a timeout in mid action, it would basically be the equivalent of a football coach calling a timeout before his QB gets sacked.. Happy about this.. Also one less timeout.. Anything to make college basketball less "Fragmented" is a good thing..

Players can now dunk in warmups? Uhhh OK, cool?

 

[anon_d97v9o3a8b6xr]

So this means no timeout when your team struggles to get to half court before 10 seconds? I always hated that coaches could call timeout there and get a fresh 10 second clock.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

So this means no timeout when your team struggles to get to half court before 10 seconds? I always hated that coaches could call timeout there and get a fresh 10 second clock.

I think a player on the court can still call the time out.

 

[anon_d97v9o3a8b6xr]

If the player can make the timeout than the 10 second clock should be left where they called it. No more refresh after timeout.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Don't know what the rule is on that--maybe they get a new ten, maybe not.

 

[wbrpanther]

Don't know what the rule is on that--maybe they get a new ten, maybe not.

They get a new 10 and that is stupid.

 

[Pghfan]

I think a player on the court can still call the time out.

Im ok if the player with the ball has clear possession. It's the guy who is trapped and about to have a 10 second violation and the coach from across the court calls one of his 12 timeouts.. Annoys the hell out of me.. Or the player who jumps out of bounds to catch the ball and while he is in mid air, still calls a timeout.. I know this rule wont effect this but it's ridiculous..

 

[Harve74]

Im ok if the player with the ball has clear possession. It's the guy who is trapped and about to have a 10 second violation and the coach from across the court calls one of his 12 timeouts.. Annoys the hell out of me.. Or the player who jumps out of bounds to catch the ball and while he is in mid air, still calls a timeout.. I know this rule wont effect this but it's ridiculous..

I think the rule was already changed about stopping a guy from calling time out while falling out of bounds.

 

[Pghfan]

regarding the dunk in pregame thingy.. I'd say this rule wasn't enforced. I saw a youtube clip of Sam Young doing 720, somersault, reverse, flip in air dunks pre game.. Harve, maybe you are right. I found it so funny that some guy would dive for a ball out of bounds, catch it in air and call timeout, all to gain one possession. Cool move if it's late in a tie game but I'd see this at the 3 minute mark in first half with a score of 6 - 4 and then hear the announcers say how great of a play it is.. Uh no, it's nothing but another unnecessary tv time out for a game that has too many break in actions as it is..

 

[Pitt79]

The stupidest thing is when the guy is in the air flying out of bounds and they give him a time out! LOL, they should not allow that.

 

[KiwiJeff]

The stupidest thing is when the guy is in the air flying out of bounds and they give him a time out! LOL, they should not allow that.

It isn't allowed, and wasn't last season either.

 

[vinniep33]

sorry if I am joining the party late here, I've been in football mode.. Just saw the new secondary rules taking effect and saw this.. Always thought how absolutely ridiculous a coach can call a timeout in mid action, it would basically be the equivalent of a football coach calling a timeout before his QB gets sacked.. Happy about this.. Also one less timeout.. Anything to make college basketball less "Fragmented" is a good thing..

Players can now dunk in warmups? Uhhh OK, cool?

Games will be 5x as fun to watch this year because coaches can't call TOs and the shorter shot clock.

 

[Harve74]

regarding the dunk in pregame thingy.. I'd say this rule wasn't enforced. I saw a youtube clip of Sam Young doing 720, somersault, reverse, flip in air dunks pre game.. Harve, maybe you are right. I found it so funny that some guy would dive for a ball out of bounds, catch it in air and call timeout, all to gain one possession. Cool move if it's late in a tie game but I'd see this at the 3 minute mark in first half with a score of 6 - 4 and then hear the announcers say how great of a play it is.. Uh no, it's nothing but another unnecessary tv time out for a game that has too many break in actions as it is..

The no dunking in pregame was enforced as soon as the refs came out on the court, generally in the final warm-up period. Nobody was watching before that and some guys often did dunk.

FWIW, the first time a nationally televised game has to be delayed because a bent rim has to be replaced will probably be the end of allowing pregame dunks.

 

[KiwiJeff]

Games will be 5x as fun to watch this year because coaches can't call TOs and the shorter shot clock.

I doubt most will see any difference.

 

[Pghfan]

regarding the dunk in pregame thingy.. I'd say this rule wasn't enforced. I saw a youtube clip of Sam Young doing 720, somersault, reverse, flip in air dunks pre game.. Harve, maybe you are right. I found it so funny that some guy would dive for a ball out of bounds, catch it in air and call timeout, all to gain one possession. Cool move if it's late in a tie game but I'd see this at the 3 minute mark in first half with a score of 6 - 4 and then hear the announcers say how great of a play it is.. Uh no, it's nothing but another unnecessary tv time out for a game that has too many break in actions as it is..

I doubt most will see any difference.

Kiwi, I think the shorter clock will definitely be a difference maker..

 

[Pghfan]

The no dunking in pregame was enforced as soon as the refs came out on the court, generally in the final warm-up period. Nobody was watching before that and some guys often did dunk.

FWIW, the first time a nationally televised game has to be delayed because a bent rim has to be replaced will probably be the end of allowing pregame dunks.

This makes sense Harve, I think the youtube I watched was real early, well before the typical "layup line" pre game shootaround. Probably when they come out and mess around, stretch, then go back into locker room, then come back out again for pre-game..

Honestly, I cant for the life of me imagine why this rule would be addressed. I am not pro or anti one way or another, just curious why it's even on the radar.. On this note, I hope to High heaven some dude shatters a backboard on some tomahawk dunk pre-game, that would be fantastic..

 

[Harve74]

This makes sense Harve, I think the youtube I watched was real early, well before the typical "layup line" pre game shootaround. Probably when they come out and mess around, stretch, then go back into locker room, then come back out again for pre-game..

Honestly, I cant for the life of me imagine why this rule would be addressed. I am not pro or anti one way or another, just curious why it's even on the radar.. On this note, I hope to High heaven some dude shatters a backboard on some tomahawk dunk pre-game, that would be fantastic..

LOL,

 

[KiwiJeff]

regarding the dunk in pregame thingy.. I'd say this rule wasn't enforced. I saw a youtube clip of Sam Young doing 720, somersault, reverse, flip in air dunks pre game.. Harve, maybe you are right. I found it so funny that some guy would dive for a ball out of bounds, catch it in air and call timeout, all to gain one possession. Cool move if it's late in a tie game but I'd see this at the 3 minute mark in first half with a score of 6 - 4 and then hear the announcers say how great of a play it is.. Uh no, it's nothing but another unnecessary tv time out for a game that has too many break in actions as it is..

Kiwi, I think the shorter clock will definitely be a difference maker..

I suspect less than 10% of shots originate with less than 5 seconds on the clock. OK, will it have "some" impact. Perhaps. I don't expect the average fan will notice anything different though. The biggest change will be to the yinzers, who will have to change their mantra from "passing around the perimeter for 35 seconds" to "passing around the perimeter for 30 seconds". I'm sure it will take them awhile to adjust.

 

[levance2]

The biggest change will be to the yinzers, who will have to change their mantra from "passing around the perimeter for 35 seconds" to "passing around the perimeter for 30 seconds". I'm sure it will take them awhile to adjust.

Instead of being patient and getting a reasonable shot off with 10 on the clock, that will now be only 5, and result in more people lamenting Pitt waiting until the final seconds.

 

[Pghfan]

I suspect less than 10% of shots originate with less than 5 seconds on the clock. OK, will it have "some" impact. Perhaps. I don't expect the average fan will notice anything different though. The biggest change will be to the yinzers, who will have to change their mantra from "passing around the perimeter for 35 seconds" to "passing around the perimeter for 30 seconds". I'm sure it will take them awhile to adjust.

Kiwi, I don't think it's completely unfounded yinzer talk, this passing around the perimeter critique on Dixon.. I've seen many times where we had a 3 man weave going at top of circle for the better part of the shot clock. It was something you'd see at a globetrotter game with the exception of the defenders following the figure 8..

 

[KiwiJeff]

Kiwi, I don't think it's completely unfounded yinzer talk, this passing around the perimeter critique on Dixon.. I've seen many times where we had a 3 man weave going at top of circle for the better part of the shot clock. It was something you'd see at a globetrotter game with the exception of the defenders following the figure 8..

Reality would prove you wrong. Most games, Pitt typically had fewer than 10 possessions that went that way. If I had to guess, it would be about 6 possessions per game that the first shot of the possession was launched with 5 seconds or less on the shot clock, excluding times where it is being intentionally to burn clock at the end of the game. Most everyone does that.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Games will be 5x as fun to watch this year because coaches can't call TOs and the shorter shot clock.

I'm not sure why anyone would think that it's going to be much different when Jamie Dixon can't call a live ball timeout but he can still tell one of his players to call one. Will it really be that different when Dixon tells James Robinson to tell Jamie Luckie that we want a timeout rather than Dixon just telling him himself?

 

[Harve74]

I'm not sure why anyone would think that it's going to be much different when Jamie Dixon can't call a live ball timeout but he can still tell one of his players to call one. Will it really be that different when Dixon tells James Robinson to tell Jamie Luckie that we want a timeout rather than Dixon just telling him himself?

Well, Jamie won't be able to call a time out while Lamar is driving to the hoop for the winning basket, which almost cost us a game two years back.

It will reduce the degree of control most coaches had in critical split-second situations, giving a little more control to the players. Let's see, taking control of a critical decision away FROM a 50 year old coach and giving it to a 19 year old player in front of thousands of screaming fans and the pressure of a TV audience. What could possibly go wrong?

There is a school of thought out there, often led by ex-players, that says the game should be in the hands of the players, not the coaches. It would be more "pure" that way. That seems fine from a high-minded, philosophical point of view.

But, we can see THAT style every day on a playground or at an AAU tournament. There is a reason why most "great" coaches win games and are highly paid. It is because they can coach and because of that, their teams win games.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Instead of being patient and getting a reasonable shot off with 10 on the clock, that will now be only 5, and result in more people lamenting Pitt waiting until the final seconds.

Gets it.

 

[Pghfan]

college basketball is "over-coached" and has become a fragmented, tough-to-watch game.. Hopefully this helps this, it won't solve it but it could help.. Harve, good call on the timeout from Dixon on Lamar's drive, still cant believe that really happened..

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

college basketball is "over-coached" and has become a fragmented, tough-to-watch game.. Hopefully this helps this, it won't solve it but it could help.. Harve, good call on the timeout from Dixon on Lamar's drive, still cant believe that really happened..

We won that game, either way.

And no- it's not over-coached.

It's under-officiated. Obstruction is the name of the game, and that's what REALLY needs to change to create more flow.

 

[Pghfan]

We won that game, either way.

And no- it's not over-coached.

It's under-officiated. Obstruction is the name of the game, and that's what REALLY needs to change to create more flow.

I believe it is over coached but cant disagree with your last statement either. It's similar to hockey where the officiating or lack thereof is diminishing talent and giving advantages to less skilled teams/players.. Sort of a movement for parity.. OK I guess but damn if it isn't torture to watch..

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I believe it is over coached but cant disagree with your last statement either. It's similar to hockey where the officiating or lack thereof is diminishing talent and giving advantages to less skilled teams/players.. Sort of a movement for parity.. OK I guess but damn if it isn't torture to watch..

In fairness... obstruction and creating a rock-fight, is what elevated our program. We won ugly by strategy.

 

[Harve74]

I believe it is over coached but cant disagree with your last statement either. It's similar to hockey where the officiating or lack thereof is diminishing talent and giving advantages to less skilled teams/players.. Sort of a movement for parity.. OK I guess but damn if it isn't torture to watch..

It's over-exposed. I really don't think most of the country only wants to wach the best teams run over lesser opponents. I think most viewer like the parity. The networks pay billions for the upsets of March Madness. The first weeked is bout Cinderella, then the big boys get the next two weeks.

But, don't mistake it. Upsets sell, probably better than excellence.

 

[Harve74]

In fairness... obstruction and creating a rock-fight, is what elevated our program. We won ugly by strategy.

There was a great article linked last year on how Bobby Knight ruined college basketball. Basically, everything Howland and Dixon did, they copied directly from Knight. So did dozens of other coaches. The college game changed.
They (the profession) copied it BECAUSE IT WORKS.

Knight beat teams which played Wooden's UCLA style. Effort and technique CAN beat skill, if the rules allow. We'll see if the rule makers can succeed in taking back the game to the free-flowing style of the 60's. A few NBA teams have the highly skilled players to pull that off, but mostly, I think playing that way with average college players may be even more of a disaster.

 

[Pghfan]

In fairness... obstruction and creating a rock-fight, is what elevated our program. We won ugly by strategy.

I was thinking this.. I loved, LOVED those teams because we won ugly and controlled the clock.. Each possession was used effectively. But watching other teams do it is painful.. Winning 58 - 43 like those pitt teams did is fun... for pitt fans.

 

[Pghfan]

It's over-exposed. I really don't think most of the country only wants to wach the best teams run over lesser opponents. I think most viewer like the parity. The networks pay billions for the upsets of March Madness. The first weeked is bout Cinderella, then the big boys get the next two weeks.

But, don't mistake it. Upsets sell, probably better than excellence.

aren't we over this fascination with cinderalla teams yet?? I remember when vcu made the final four, everyone loved the story except me.. Yeah it's great, the little guy, but problem is, you have to watch them.. You know what is cooler than watching a final four team with VCU in it?? Watching a talented team play..

 

[levance2]

college basketball is "over-coached"

I have never understood the fascination with that term. Why are you paying a coach millions of dollars to sit there and shut up? Let him do his job and win the game.

 

[Pghfan]

I have never understood the fascination with that term. Why are you paying a coach millions of dollars to sit there and shut up? Let him do his job and win the game.

I understand you point and I wish I could correctly verbalize my point.. By over coached, I mean these endless timeouts, this "treat every possession like gold" I mean of course you want a good coach but that should be more with the system. Run your sets, implement your system, recruit players that fit your system. That's great, but the fluidity of the college game is lacking for various reasons. fans have been complaining about it but now you see the talking heads on espn even addressing it.. We all have our theories why but basketball needs to "flow" a little bit. This constant stop-start-stop-start is hard to watch.. It is a very fragmented game. Wish I could explain it better..

Check out the link below. Article in SI. Covers some of what I am referring too.

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/02/26/hoop-thoughts-college-basketball-scoring-pace

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

I understand you point and I wish I could correctly verbalize my point.. By over coached, I mean these endless timeouts, this "treat every possession like gold" I mean of course you want a good coach but that should be more with the system. Run your sets, implement your system, recruit players that fit your system. That's great, but the fluidity of the college game is lacking for various reasons. fans have been complaining about it but now you see the talking heads on espn even addressing it.. We all have our theories why but basketball needs to "flow" a little bit. This constant stop-start-stop-start is hard to watch.. It is a very fragmented game. Wish I could explain it better..

Check out the link below. Article in SI. Covers some of what I am referring too.

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/02/26/hoop-thoughts-college-basketball-scoring-pace

As a Pitt fan, why would you want changes that to the game that would surely be bad for Pitt? The changes wished for by those who want fluidity only serve to make the 'blue blood" programs and the big cheaters have an even greater advantage over everyone else than they already enjoy because they take real hard-nosed defense out of the equation. I want Pitt to win at the highest rate possible. Sorry; but, if that means less fluidity and a less aesthetically pleasing style of play that's what I want.

If you want aesthetically pleasing fluidity go watch, "street ball," AAU ball and the NBA!

 

[levance2]

I really could not care less what ESPN talking heads think about the game. I want Pitt to play well and I want Pitt to win games. I don't care if Dixon needs 20 timeouts to do it.

Should Narduzzi have held his timeouts against UNC and just "let the players flow" and run out the clock? This is how the game works.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It's over-exposed. I really don't think most of the country only wants to wach the best teams run over lesser opponents. I think most viewer like the parity. The networks pay billions for the upsets of March Madness. The first weeked is bout Cinderella, then the big boys get the next two weeks.

But, don't mistake it. Upsets sell, probably better than excellence.

The networks most certainly do not pay billions for upsets. The networks would much rather be showing Kentucky - Duke than Butler - VCU, because Kentucky - Duke squashes Butler - VCU in the ratings. And that's all they care about.

The networks will hype the upsets and talk up the Cinderellas, because what other choice do they have? But the ratings when the blue bloods play are generally higher than the ratings when the little guys play, most often by a large amount, which is why you see Duke on TV all the time and VCU not nearly as much.

 

[Pittx9]

They get a new 10 and that is stupid.

Yeah I don't think not allowing the coach to call a timeout is a good thing. But giving them a new 10 seconds is absolutely ridiculous. Let the coach call a timeout if he wants, but when you go back to inbound the ball again the clock should not reset.