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OT: Duke Football Problems

pittdan77

pittdan77

Athletic Director
Jan 5, 2011
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The Vast Wasteland of Central Pennsylvania
This goes against everything this board claims as fact!

Durham - Duke’s football program is off to a great start on the field with two wins in its first two weeks.

In the Wallace Wade Stadium stands, it’s a different story.

The school’s announced crowd for Saturday’s 41-17 win over Northwestern was 20,241.

That’s barely 50 percent of the stadium’s 40,004 seats filled on a sunny day against a Big Ten opponent. Duke had even offered $5 tickets to those who also donated to Hurricane Harvey relief efforts.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/duke-now/article172812341.html
 
And we think that a 70,000 seat pro stadium is what was necessary to get an ACC invite?
 
What is your point? A program that has never won much at all had a week 1 win over an FCS team so they should have had a sellout crowd? Even if a win over NW ends up bolstering attendance, it is a complete logic fail to use the attendance of that game itself as any measuring stick. If Duke beats Baylor and UNC on the road, then their game against Miami is probably a more reasonable barometer of increased fan interest from winning.
 
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Duke isn't a program where attendance will change overnight. It will take them years and decades of improving the program and consistent focus from the admin there to make a difference.
 
His point is obvious. It was echoed at another site where a poster included photograph's of nearly a dozen lightly attended games for programs similar to Pitt. Some, less attended at Pitt. Most had on campus stadiums. One of them was Cal. UCLA was another. There were many more too.
 
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pittdan77 said:
This goes against everything this board claims as fact!

Durham - Duke’s football program is off to a great start on the field with two wins in its first two weeks.

In the Wallace Wade Stadium stands, it’s a different story.

The school’s announced crowd for Saturday’s 41-17 win over Northwestern was 20,241.

That’s barely 50 percent of the stadium’s 40,004 seats filled on a sunny day against a Big Ten opponent. Duke had even offered $5 tickets to those who also donated to Hurricane Harvey relief efforts.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/duke-now/article172812341.html
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So is the point that other teams that are not top teams also struggle with attendance? I think EVERYONE acknowledges that Pitt does not exactly knock it out of the park when it comes to attendance. So highlighting other struggling schools is supposed to make us feel better? If you compare what Duke's athletic endowment is, and what they raise annually for athletics--they clearly do not need the ticket sales to survive, at least vis-a-vis Pitt. No doubt Duke, like most schools, would love to do better at the gate. Hail to Pitt!
 
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recruitsreadtheseboards said:
There simply are areas where college football matters and areas where it doesn't.
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This is a perfectly simple and accurate statement. As has been stated previously, the schools with the highest attendance numbers fall into one of the following categories:
  1. Massive enrollment/land grant school that pumps out diplomas (see PSU)
  2. In areas where there is literally nothing else going on other than COLLEGE sports (see PSU again, in addition to most teams in the BIG, BIG XII, SEC).
  3. Some combination of the two.
 
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Panther Holla said:
At Duke if they win football games it's like walking down the street and finding money. Only one sport matters in Durham, and it sure ain't football or lacrosse.
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Actually I suspect lacrosse kinda does matter there, maybe even more than football.
 
There's a reason Duke remains in a 9,300 seat capacity basketball arena, too.

They are a small private school, where a lot of the alums are from the northeast, and go back home to work after graduating.

There are some locals who are fans, but Duke is competing with two larger state schools for fans in the region. UNC is c. 10 miles down the road. NCSU isn't much further away.
 
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Duke is a tiny school with very few non-alumni football fans. They also go out of their way to schedule schools like Vandy, Northwestern. etc that are peers in football (something Pitt should do IMO), who bring very few fans. No sane person draws a comparison between them an us.

If we had a small on-campus stadium like they do, our attendance wouldn't change because we actually have a decent sized, loyal following of alumni, students and a few local college ball fans. One thing that would change for the better is the atmosphere surrounding the game's ancillary activities like tailgating, campus visits and promotion, alumni affairs etc. I doubt any of that would have a dynamic impact on our 6-8 win per year program.
 
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rmf05 said:
Duke is a tiny school with very few non-alumni football fans. They also go out of their way to schedule schools like Vandy, Northwestern. etc that are peers in football (something Pitt should do IMO), who bring very few fans. No sane person draws a comparison between them an us.

If we had a small on-campus stadium like they do, our attendance wouldn't change because we actually have a decent sized, loyal following of alumni, students and a few local college ball fans. One thing that would change for the better is the atmosphere surrounding the game's ancillary activities like tailgating, campus visits and promotion, alumni affairs etc. I doubt any of that would have a dynamic impact on our 6-8 win per year program.
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Might be true for all above. Except tailgating. As a Pitt fan who also enjoys tailgating, the initial years of Heinz provided the golden era. That's rapidly going away as surface lots disappear, but at least everyone knew that was going to happen.
 
At SEC schools, places like the Cathedral lawn and Schenley Plaza lawn are opened up for tailgating. Pitt's campus could be amazing for tailgating. Visiting tailgates could be provided for by putting up tents and setting aside space on the Baseball, Softball and Soccer fields.

There are whispers that the VA system is going to be scrapped for a voucher system. If that happens, could the VA-Oakland site be available? The city would be fine with it since the tax rolls would be unchanged. The VA has a 2000-car garage already built. Great views of both campus and downtown. Close proximity to the other sports facilities.
 
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duke got 5 home games with 3:30pm starts or later too. So much for good teams getting the later tv slots..
 
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BFo8 said:
Actually I suspect lacrosse kinda does matter there, maybe even more than football.
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fans and local residents probably root more now out of guilt for the "torch and pitchfork' response they had a few years back.
 
Duke should offer an incentive that any fan who comes and stays thru the 4th quarter gets an autographed picture of the team - the basketball team. That might double, if not triple, their attendance.
 
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Pitt79 said:
Pitt doesn't struggle with attendance IMO, getting 40-50K for Marshall, YSU or Virginia the day before the Steelers get 65K is not bad at all.
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Guess it ultimately depends on your goals and where you want to go? My view is that Pitt aspires to do better, so as long as there are tickets that remain unsold, there will be an opportunity to improve. But to your point, I do not think the present trends/history for Pitt football games is as bad as some portray the situation. Hail to Pitt!
 
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I didn't post this to rail on Duke. What's the point?

We're playing OkSt this week and will draw the usual 40k or more. We need to emulate what programs like OkSt do and make this program work. Took 30 years to screw it up so it won't get fixed in three or four.
 
pittdan77 said:
I didn't post this to rail on Duke. What's the point?

We're playing OkSt this week and will draw the usual 40k or more. We need to emulate what programs like OkSt do and make this program work. Took 30 years to screw it up so it won't get fixed in three or four.
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OKState turned their program around largely based upon an initial huge gift of $165 million dollars. Come up with that kind of money for Pitt...and no doubt it could be done for sure:) Hail to Pitt!
 
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PITTLAW said:
Guess it ultimately depends on your goals and where you want to go? My view is that Pitt aspires to do better, so as long as there are tickets that remain unsold, there will be an opportunity to improve. But to your point, I do not think the present trends/history for Pitt football games is as bad as some portray the situation. Hail to Pitt!
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Of course you'd rather sell more seats, but to act like 45K average in a stadium shared with the Steelers, off campus, in a city of this size is bad, is kind of stupid. It is not bad.
 
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We had 40K for YSU. That isn't shabby for a bad opponent and poor weather. We'll have 50+ on Saturday. The students were outstanding against YSU. I hope they step it up Saturday. The nice thing about our fan base is that its quite a bit younger and more active than some bases that are larger. Its a shame the stadium is so big but our base as it stands is pretty good in relation to our peers. We can someday be like VaTech and WVU who have about 60-65K as soon as the lights come on and they provide an atmosphere that is better than those monster 100K Big Ten houses.
 
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rmf05 said:
We had 40K for YSU. That isn't shabby for a bad opponent and poor weather. We'll have 50+ on Saturday. The students were outstanding against YSU. I hope they step it up Saturday. The nice thing about our fan base is that its quite a bit younger and more active than some bases that are larger. Its a shame the stadium is so big but our base as it stands is pretty good in relation to our peers. We can someday be like VaTech and WVU who have about 60-65K as soon as the lights come on and they provide an atmosphere that is better than those monster 100K Big Ten houses.
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not doubting you but where is the data that our fan base is younger compared to others? I am curious because I do not see anything we have done in the last 10 -15 years to give younger people to be fans of us.
 
Data? Just an observation. Compared to PSU, ND, OSU, Mich who are the big fanbases that some Pitt fans wish we could emulate. The crowds at their games seem old to me. Been to games at Georgia and Ohio St. (Mich) and even though the OSU-Mich game I attended was supposedly "the game of the century" the atmosphere was less electric than the normal Georgia/Tenn game I saw. Frankly the Pitt-Cincy 09' and Pitt-VT 05' games were equal to the Big Game at the Horseshoe. I was struck by how old the crowd was.

I had no rooting interest in either non-Pitt game but I actually felt drained after the Georgia-Ten game because it was so intense with all the screaming by everyone around me.
 
rmf05 said:
Data? Just an observation. Compared to PSU, ND, OSU, Mich who are the big fanbases that some Pitt fans wish we could emulate. The crowds at their games seem old to me. Been to games at Georgia and Ohio St. (Mich) and even though the OSU-Mich game I attended was supposedly "the game of the century" the atmosphere was less electric than the normal Georgia/Tenn game I saw. Frankly the Pitt-Cincy 09' and Pitt-VT 05' games were equal to the Big Game at the Horseshoe. I was struck by how old the crowd was.

I had no rooting interest in either non-Pitt game but I actually felt drained after the Georgia-Ten game because it was so intense with all the screaming by everyone around me.
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tOSU is a tough ticket, even former players can barely get season tickets. I know one of them, he never had season tickets until his 50s when he became active with the Varsity O Club.
 
The state of North Carolina just isn't big on college football. Even UNC struggles to fill the stadium, which is why it tries to set up OV's during basketball season. Go look at the shots from their game against ranked Lville this past weekend. To some extent football in North Carolina is a lot like football at USCw or Miami. You have to really be good and have a big time opponent come to town before the locals take notice.
Duke has it even worse. It's a small school with a small student body, so they desperately need the locals to take notice and come out. But unlike USCw or Miami, the locals are hostile to Duke. The average North Carolina sports fan hates Duke. They root for UNC or NC State. It's why most in-state basketball recruits have traditionally not gone to Duke.
 
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I have been to numerous Texas games and that is old crowd. 50's, 60's and lots of 70 's. not all that rabid
 
caleco's said:
I have been to numerous Texas games and that is old crowd. 50's, 60's and lots of 70 's. not all that rabid
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I'd be willing to bet you don't make it out to Sam Boyd too often, me neither to be honest. I plan on buying Rebel season tickets when the new stadium opens, figure it will be half full and give me the chance to really see the stadium rather than fight the crowds at the Raider games.
 
Pitt drawing 40-55k on average is IMO a great average. The problem is Pitt plays in a stadium that's too big. So even when the team draws 45k it looks empty with 20k bright yellow seats with no butts in them.
 
BFo8 said:
I'd be willing to bet you don't make it out to Sam Boyd too often, me neither to be honest. I plan on buying Rebel season tickets when the new stadium opens, figure it will be half full and give me the chance to really see the stadium rather than fight the crowds at the Raider games.
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I used to go every game. it's an easy drive for me. they kept losing to southern utah, northern az etc. it was painful. I go to about 1 or 2 a year now.
headed to unr this weekend, should be fun
 
HailtoPitt said:
Duke isn't a program where attendance will change overnight. It will take them years and decades of improving the program and consistent focus from the admin there to make a difference.
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Does this scenario sound familiar?????
 
If Pitt's ever to construct something, I believe building it near the Hot Metal Bridge is the ideal spot. Right down the street from Oakland. Just across the bridge from South Side. Plenty of land. Why the hell not? I don't know if it's feasible, but I'd heard some suggest a second, smaller campus nearby as well.
 
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