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OT: Enormous Saturday for US Soccer

S

Sean Miller Fan

Lair Hall of Famer
Oct 30, 2001
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Thanks to CONCACAF's scheduling stupidity, their 2017 Confederations Cup representative will be decided on the same day as their 2 2016 olympic representatives since nobody was smart enough to realize that a potential US-Mexico CONCACAF Cup could conflict with Olympic qualifying. The olympics is a U23 Tournament but some US Senior Internationals like DeAndre Yedlin could have helped the U23's qualify if the events didnt conflict. Oh, CONCACAF, never change!

Anyway, the U23's face Honduras at 3:00 with a berth in Rio on the line (though they could back in if they lose by beating Canada and Colombia). FWIW, the game isn't televised in English but it is on Telemundo. They have looked dominant in the group stage and I'm really excited this group can do some damage in Rio like Mexico did in 2012. The olympics is not a big soccer event for FIFA so a lot of times you dont get the best teams and best U23's, especially since they directly conflict with the beginnings of the Euoropean club season. However, the average American doesn't know this so if he turns on the olympics and sees the US team winning games, it could turn some heads. And I think this team can do it. They could call on Yedlin, John Brooks, and Julian Green for Rio and you get 3 overage players. If the US boycots or isnt allowed to play in Copa America Centenario in June because of the corruption scandal involving that tournament (hard to see the USDOJ allowing the US to participate at this point), that means you could get guys like Bradley, Dempsey, and Altidore to come to the olympics as overage players and at that point, the US would probably be one of the favorites as most teams don't send first-choice overage players.

As for the senior MNT, its do or die for Klinsmann, I firmly believe he's gone with a loss. I dont think he's done a bad job but it hasnt been good enough and he's alienated too many people with his disdain for MLS and his off-the-wall player selections. His Julian Green for Landon Donovan World Cup picks looks worse everyday as Green couldn't even make the US U23 qualifying team and is still stuck in the German 4th Division.

That said, I dont think Mexico is very good right now and the US can beat them. This would be lineup:

FW: Dempsey
FW: Altidore (Johansson)
CAM: Bradley
RW: Zardes (Yedlin)
LW: Bedoya
CDM: Jones (Beckerman if it looks like its going to extra time, dont know if Jones has the legs for 120)
RB: Beasley
CM: Besler
CM: Cameron
LB: Johnson
GW: Howard though I know they are going with Guzan which I disagree with a million percent. Howard is a better goalkeper than Guzan. Anybody will tell you that (except for Alexi Lalas).
 
I'm guessing it's being played at or around the same time as the Pitt game?
 
If the US plays well, they should win this game. I don't see Mexico being the Mexico of years past. They've been less impressive the last couple of games with the US. I guess Mexico is healthy and playing in somewhat of a neutral location in California.
I can't find the television info for this game.
 
RJ, the game is on FS1. There is no conflict with the Pitt game because the US - Mexico game doesn't start until either 6:30 or 7:00 local time, so 9:30 or 10:00 here.
 
SMF, just when do you think they should be playing the US - Mexico game? They didn't even know there would be one until a couple of months ago. The Olympic qualifying tournament was scheduled a long time ago. If they weren't going to play the playoff game this weekend, when should it have been? Keep in mind that the next several FIFA play dates are world cup qualifier dates for CONCACAF, so they realistically couldn't go any later.

I'm not saying what is going on Saturday is ideal, but your complaint would have a lot more merit if you would share with all of us a few suggestions for when they should be playing instead.
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
SMF, just when do you think they should be playing the US - Mexico game? They didn't even know there would be one until a couple of months ago. The Olympic qualifying tournament was scheduled a long time ago. If they weren't going to play the playoff game this weekend, when should it have been? Keep in mind that the next several FIFA play dates are world cup qualifier dates for CONCACAF, so they realistically couldn't go any later.

I'm not saying what is going on Saturday is ideal, but your complaint would have a lot more merit if you would share with all of us a few suggestions for when they should be playing instead.
Click to expand...

Why did Olympic Qualifying have to be in October. Its usually been in Feb/Mar. Knowing that a CONCACAF Cup was likely (odds had to be greater than 50% that someone other than the US was going to win the GC), Olympic Qualifying should have been originally set up for a different time.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Thanks to CONCACAF's scheduling stupidity, their 2017 Confederations Cup representative will be decided on the same day as their 2 2016 olympic representatives since nobody was smart enough to realize that a potential US-Mexico CONCACAF Cup could conflict with Olympic qualifying. The olympics is a U23 Tournament but some US Senior Internationals like DeAndre Yedlin could have helped the U23's qualify if the events didnt conflict. Oh, CONCACAF, never change!

Anyway, the U23's face Honduras at 3:00 with a berth in Rio on the line (though they could back in if they lose by beating Canada and Colombia). FWIW, the game isn't televised in English but it is on Telemundo. They have looked dominant in the group stage and I'm really excited this group can do some damage in Rio like Mexico did in 2012. The olympics is not a big soccer event for FIFA so a lot of times you dont get the best teams and best U23's, especially since they directly conflict with the beginnings of the Euoropean club season. However, the average American doesn't know this so if he turns on the olympics and sees the US team winning games, it could turn some heads. And I think this team can do it. They could call on Yedlin, John Brooks, and Julian Green for Rio and you get 3 overage players. If the US boycots or isnt allowed to play in Copa America Centenario in June because of the corruption scandal involving that tournament (hard to see the USDOJ allowing the US to participate at this point), that means you could get guys like Bradley, Dempsey, and Altidore to come to the olympics as overage players and at that point, the US would probably be one of the favorites as most teams don't send first-choice overage players.

As for the senior MNT, its do or die for Klinsmann, I firmly believe he's gone with a loss. I dont think he's done a bad job but it hasnt been good enough and he's alienated too many people with his disdain for MLS and his off-the-wall player selections. His Julian Green for Landon Donovan World Cup picks looks worse everyday as Green couldn't even make the US U23 qualifying team and is still stuck in the German 4th Division.

That said, I dont think Mexico is very good right now and the US can beat them. This would be lineup:

FW: Dempsey
FW: Altidore (Johansson)
CAM: Bradley
RW: Zardes (Yedlin)
LW: Bedoya
CDM: Jones (Beckerman if it looks like its going to extra time, dont know if Jones has the legs for 120)
RB: Beasley
CM: Besler
CM: Cameron
LB: Johnson
GW: Howard though I know they are going with Guzan which I disagree with a million percent. Howard is a better goalkeper than Guzan. Anybody will tell you that (except for Alexi Lalas).
Click to expand...
Please take this to the Olympic Sports board.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Why did Olympic Qualifying have to be in October. Its usually been in Feb/Mar. Knowing that a CONCACAF Cup was likely (odds had to be greater than 50% that someone other than the US was going to win the GC), Olympic Qualifying should have been originally set up for a different time.
Click to expand...

The Olympic tournament was scheduled long before CONCACAF even decided that there would be a playoff if someone other than the US won this summer. This is the first time they ever decided to do this. In the past the winner this past summer would have automatically gotten the berth, so believe it or not CONCACAF is actually doing the US something of a favor here.
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
The Olympic tournament was scheduled long before CONCACAF even decided that there would be a playoff if someone other than the US won this summer. This is the first time they ever decided to do this. In the past the winner this past summer would have automatically gotten the berth, so believe it or not CONCACAF is actually doing the US something of a favor here.
Click to expand...

You're wrong, just admit it. CONCACAF decided on this format in 2012 before the 2013 Gold Cup. They didnt decide on Olympic Qualifying until over a year, maybe 2 years after that. As I said, it was very likely this game was always going to get played since its difficult to win 2 straight GC's to avoid it. CONCACAF should not have taken the chance at a conflicting tournaments. It was one of the dumbest things they could have done.

As it turned out, it was one of the worst days on US Soccer history. The U23's were surprisingly badly outplayed by Honduras. Simply put, Honduras looked like a much better team and would win 9 out of 10 (maybe not, but that's what it looked like). Pretty depressing. Could Yedlin have helped the U23's? We'll never know.

Then the senior team looks like little bro playing against big bro. They fought hard and took it extra time but they were utterly dominated and outclassed against a Mexico team that I didn't think was all that good.

As guys like Donovan retire, and Dempsey, Jones, Beckerman, Beasley age, it doesnt seem like this next generation is any better. There's nobody coming up. I just dont see any improvement in US soccer at the highest level. I think we have increased our depth which MLS has helped. That's nice but you still dont have the top-level US stars. The best US players have had to come back to MLS because they couldnt get enough playing time at goos but not great European clubs and we have precious few players playing week in and week out on the top Euro leagues.
 
But...but...but.....Soccer is going to take over the US!! It is! It is!! I am going to hold my breath and pout until it does!!!

Look, soccer is this country will always be second rate to every one else as long as it is the sole provision of spoiled rich suburban kids.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
But...but...but.....Soccer is going to take over the US!! It is! It is!! I am going to hold my breath and pout until it does!!!

Look, soccer is this country will always be second rate to every one else as long as it is the sole provision of spoiled rich suburban kids.
Click to expand...

You are misunderstanding. The US players still arent very good and wont be for decades if ever. But the VIEWERSHIP and popularity of the sport is exploding. You will see only small incremental growth in the talent of the players over the years but the sport will continue to get massive ratings in the highest competitions.

And its never going to take over the NFL or NBA.

In some ways, soccer in the US is like basketball in China. 50 years ago, the Chinese National team probably would have lost to some American guys who play pickup once a week on Tuesday nights. Nobody in China played or watched. Over the years, the sport has exploded there. That has caused the team to be much better but they still arent at a world-class level and probably never will be. But the future of basketball outside of the US may be in China simply due to eyeballs. That's soccer here. Kids watch it, but they suck at it.
 
Last edited:
Sean Miller Fan said:
You're wrong, just admit it. CONCACAF decided on this format in 2012 before the 2013 Gold Cup.
Click to expand...


That is simply factually incorrect. However given your general relationship with facts it also isn't surprising.

I notice that you still haven't come up with an answer to the question as to which dates would have been better. It's easy to bitch about someone else's decisions when you can't ever attempt to make a guess as to what a better one may have been.
 
Pretty tough loss for the US Soccer team Saturday. I mostly watch international soccer only during the World Cup, even though I really enjoy watching soccer teams if I have a rooting interest. I'm a big supporter of US Soccer though.
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
That is simply factually incorrect. However given your general relationship with facts it also isn't surprising.

I notice that you still haven't come up with an answer to the question as to which dates would have been better. It's easy to bitch about someone else's decisions when you can't ever attempt to make a guess as to what a better one may have been.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? Did you watch the 2013 Gold Cup? It was well-publicized during the entire tournament that the winner would go to a 1 game playoff vs the 2015 champ unless they won 2013 and 2015. When do you think that decision was made? Hint: try sometime before June 2013.

As for what other dates they could have played the Olympic Qualifying Tournement. How about the September international dates? How about February/March? As I said, any time that wouldnt conflict with a CONCACAF Cup that was always very likely to happen. If the U23's have Yedlin, maybe we are in the olympics. And lets not forget, Klinsmann'a top assistant coaches the U23s so its not ideal to not have him during CONCACAF Cup preparations.

Listen, I'm right. You're wrong. Its painfully obvious.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
What was the "massive" ratings it got on Saturday vs football and baseball games?
Click to expand...

Most watched sporting event in the US on Saturday despite very stiff competition as you said. 6.7 million viewers.

Times are changing, demographics are changing. Soccer is here. The US team sucks but people still like the sport.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Soccer is here.
Click to expand...
Awesome! Never played soccer as a kid, but have really grown to like the sport a lot. Was at the AC Milan/Manchester City game at Heinz. Thought it was great. I'm a Milan fan when it comes to soccer and Balotelli since he first started playing big time soccer has been my favorite player (other than Landon Donovan, Clint Dempsey, and the guys who have been stars on the US National Teams.)
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Most watched sporting event in the US on Saturday despite very stiff competition as you said. 6.7 million viewers.

Times are changing, demographics are changing. Soccer is here. The US team sucks but people still like the sport.
Click to expand...

Let's be honest about that demographics. Who did they play? Mexico. ALOT of Mexican natives are here.....so that was the best case scenario.
 
Soccer is fine, especially International Soccer but I find soccer fans to be the most annoying of folks, even more annoying than hockey (and I should know, I am a hockey fan). Soccer fans spend all their energy telling you how foolish you are if you aren't watching it and that it is the world's sport and all of this guilt crap.

And just like hockey, which I frankly don't care if you watch or not and seeing what American Commercial/Consumerism has done to things like the NFL and the NCAA tourney, I DON'T WANT THAT KIND OF POPULARITY WITH HOCKEY. I am perfectly fine in choosing my entertainment interests, and not having a majority approve those choices.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
Soccer is fine, especially International Soccer but I find soccer fans to be the most annoying of folks, even more annoying than hockey (and I should know, I am a hockey fan). Soccer fans spend all their energy telling you how foolish you are if you aren't watching it and that it is the world's sport and all of this guilt crap.

And just like hockey, which I frankly don't care if you watch or not and seeing what American Commercial/Consumerism has done to things like the NFL and the NCAA tourney, I DON'T WANT THAT KIND OF POPULARITY WITH HOCKEY. I am perfectly fine in choosing my entertainment interests, and not having a majority approve those choices.
Click to expand...

I don't claim any specific knowledge about how popular soccer is or isn't, or how much it's popularity is or isn't growing. Personally, all I can say is that I enjoy watching my 10 year old play on Saturdays.

I will assert, however, that I have on more than one occasion found the same thing to be true that you are suggesting. In fact, it almost seems as if there are at least a few soccer fans who almost take it as a personal insult when someone offers the idea that Soccer isn't as big as they believe that it is. Or in short, "them's fightin' words!"

Like I said, I noticed this more than once from my own experience. However, I finally began to believe this was more than my own observation when I heard Greg Giannatti saying the exact same thing on 93.7 the Fan about 2 years ago. He discussed this exact point for a several minutes. I believe his premise was something along the lines of "don't ever try to tell a soccer fan that soccer isn't that popular!"

So when I heard this, I began to believe that maybe this notion was a little more prevalent than in my own little world.

Either that, or he had just recently spoken to the same three people to whom I had spoken.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Listen, I'm right. You're wrong.
Click to expand...

Says the guy who is pissed off that they didn't reschedule a tournament that had been scheduled for a long time because of a game that they didn't know would need to played because of the conflicts it created for at most one or two guys, but who's solution is to move that tournament to a time when World Cup qualifiers are scheduled. If you are bitching about this conflict, why wouldn't you be bitching about the Olympic qualifying tournament conflicting with the World Cup qualifying games if they moved it to next March?

Of course it's no surprise coming from someone who doesn't know that there are no FIFA dates in February, and who also apparently doesn't understand that the Olympic qualifier playoff game is already scheduled for the only FIFA dates in March, so the CONCACAF tournament had to be played pretty much now. Which oddly enough is why they scheduled it for now rather than wait to find out if they should organize the whole Olympic qualifying tournament in about a month, or if it would be OK to wait so that they had two months to organize it. Maybe that's a good idea in the world you live in, but in the real world, not so much.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
Soccer is fine, especially International Soccer but I find soccer fans to be the most annoying of folks, even more annoying than hockey (and I should know, I am a hockey fan). Soccer fans spend all their energy telling you how foolish you are if you aren't watching it and that it is the world's sport and all of this guilt crap.

And just like hockey, which I frankly don't care if you watch or not and seeing what American Commercial/Consumerism has done to things like the NFL and the NCAA tourney, I DON'T WANT THAT KIND OF POPULARITY WITH HOCKEY. I am perfectly fine in choosing my entertainment interests, and not having a majority approve those choices.
Click to expand...

Was there a soccer fan in this thread telling people that they are foolish if they don't like the sport? If there was, I missed it.

Personally I was bored with this thread until someone asked about the "massive" TV ratings vs football. SMF then provided them with the facts and now it's become a "let's bash soccer fans" thread.
 
Btw, I was at a WPIAL HS section championship soccer game last night. It had all of the energy of a Friday night football game. There was a nice crowd, cheerleaders, crazed student section. Only difference was there was not a marching band and admittedly the crowd was about 2/3 of what there would have been for a football game. There weren't many residents or old timers from the communities with no connection to the programs. But plenty of students and soccer fans which filled the AAAA stadium to about 60% capacity.

Anyway, the game was physical and fans got crazy and were verbally going after the officials. I wasn't thrilled with the fan behavior, but I remember thinking to myself that the behavior was similar to what you see on a Friday night football game. So what does the newspaper reporter who covered the game say? He said that's typical of what he sees with soccer fans. Why the reporter said that I have no idea, because if you closed your eyes and listened to it, you'd think you were at a WPIAL football playoff game. Some people will use any opportunity to bash the sport and its fans.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
You are misunderstanding. The US players still arent very good and wont be for decades if ever. But the VIEWERSHIP and popularity of the sport is exploding. You will see only small incremental growth in the talent of the players over the years but the sport will continue to get massive ratings in the highest competitions.

And its never going to take over the NFL or NBA.

In some ways, soccer in the US is like basketball in China. 50 years ago, the Chinese National team probably would have lost to some American guys who play pickup once a week on Tuesday nights. Nobody in China played or watched. Over the years, the sport has exploded there. That has caused the team to be much better but they still arent at a world-class level and probably never will be. But the future of basketball outside of the US may be in China simply due to eyeballs. That's soccer here. Kids watch it, but they suck at it.
Click to expand...

I think so. A few years ago I never watched soccer, but I watched USA/Mexico over whatever college football was on that night, I think ND/Clemson was the big game, and I DON'T CARE and can't focus to pay attention since those teams mean nothing to me. I'm a "rooting interest" viewer, I ROOT for USA, I could care less what happens when two SEC teams square off, even if they are ranked 1 & 2! I can't even watch and I don't, I watch only Pitt and the Steelers in their entirety. I actually watch more soccer now than football, likely because I have more favorite teams than I do in football. And the #1 thing I love about soccer is no commercials and no stoppages.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
What was the "massive" ratings it got on Saturday vs football and baseball games?
Click to expand...
Every viewer is different. Like to me, I only watch religiously sports teams that I care about , and baseball, I never watch even an AB unless it's a Pirates playoffs, I hate that boring shyt so bad, lol. I watched the Pirates lose the WC game and that was the end of my baseball viewing until the next Pirates WC game, lol.
 
Pittx9 said:
Pretty tough loss for the US Soccer team Saturday. I mostly watch international soccer only during the World Cup, even though I really enjoy watching soccer teams if I have a rooting interest. I'm a big supporter of US Soccer though.
Click to expand...
Rooting interest helps of course, I'm a USA and Greece fan, and in UEFA I'm an Olympiacos fan (being Greek helps), and I've adopted DC United in MLS, for whatever reason I can't get attached to any BPL team. And I also attend a few Baltimore Blast indoor soccer games ever year, they are fun, but admittedly a different sport. Also never miss a minute of Catonsville High Girls JV! Lol. I did play a little GK for an adult rec league when I was in grad school at Pitt, so I can kind of relate, that helps you like it, my real impetus has been helping coach some of my daughter's teams and watching all her games the last 6 years. I understand how most people my age don't like it though, having grown up without it even existing and we basically made fun of it, back in the '70s and '80s. But after giving it a chance, I really like it and I definitely watch it over non-Pitt or non-Steelers football just about every time and baseball 1000% of the time, not even a contest there.
 
Pitt79 said:
Rooting interest helps of course, I'm a USA and Greece fan, and in UEFA I'm an Olympiacos fan (being Greek helps), and I've adopted DC United in MLS, for whatever reason I can't get attached to any BPL team. And I also attend a few Baltimore Blast indoor soccer games ever year, they are fun, but admittedly a different sport. Also never miss a minute of Catonsville High Girls JV! Lol. I did play a little GK for an adult rec league when I was in grad school at Pitt, so I can kind of relate, that helps you like it, my real impetus has been helping coach some of my daughter's teams and watching all her games the last 6 years. I understand how most people my age don't like it though, having grown up without it even existing and we basically made fun of it, back in the '70s and '80s. But after giving it a chance, I really like it and I definitely watch it over non-Pitt or non-Steelers football just about every time and baseball 1000% of the time, not even a contest there.
Click to expand...
I like to watch the US games, especially the women's games. I can't just turn on a random soccer game, though. All of the diving, and rolling around on the field injury drama in the men's games is ridiculous. They really need to call the diving penalty waaayyyyy more than they do. I don't think I've ever actually seen it called-just heard that it's an option for the officials.
 
Pitt79 said:
Every viewer is different. Like to me, I only watch religiously sports teams that I care about , and baseball, I never watch even an AB unless it's a Pirates playoffs, I hate that boring shyt so bad, lol. I watched the Pirates lose the WC game and that was the end of my baseball viewing until the next Pirates WC game, lol.
Click to expand...
Soccer is the most boring sport in the world.
Nothing is even a close second
Kick the ball
Kick thee ball harder
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
Says the guy who is pissed off that they didn't reschedule a tournament that had been scheduled for a long time because of a game that they didn't know would need to played because of the conflicts it created for at most one or two guys, but who's solution is to move that tournament to a time when World Cup qualifiers are scheduled. If you are bitching about this conflict, why wouldn't you be bitching about the Olympic qualifying tournament conflicting with the World Cup qualifying games if they moved it to next March?

Of course it's no surprise coming from someone who doesn't know that there are no FIFA dates in February, and who also apparently doesn't understand that the Olympic qualifier playoff game is already scheduled for the only FIFA dates in March, so the CONCACAF tournament had to be played pretty much now. Which oddly enough is why they scheduled it for now rather than wait to find out if they should organize the whole Olympic qualifying tournament in about a month, or if it would be OK to wait so that they had two months to organize it. Maybe that's a good idea in the world you live in, but in the real world, not so much.
Click to expand...

I never said it had to be played during FIFA international dates. In 2012, it was NOT. It should have been played during the September international dates or Nov or March, not during the international dates. By and large, clubs will release U23s for the Olympic Qualifying Tournament. Most are reserve or squad players ar their clubsar that age anyway and they'd rather see them playing games that matter for 2 weeks than appearingin reserve games in Europe. Lets not forget that only the Semifinal and Final was played during the FIFA dates this time.
 
Chaos said:
All of the diving, and rolling around on the field injury drama in the men's games is ridiculous. They really need to call the diving penalty waaayyyyy more than they do. I don't think I've ever actually seen it called-just heard that it's an option for the officials.
Click to expand...

I don't get why Americans are OBSESSED with this issue. It hardly ever happens-ALMOST NEVER- and IMO almost nobody ever seems to draw a call from a fake dive. Calling it WAAAYYYYY more than they do would ruin the game, it would be very AMERICAN to call it more, adding stoppages that are unnecessary. Like in American football where play is constantly being stopped for some useless bullllsht! Better to ignore the "diver" who might or might not be faking, and just play on.
 
paulbl99 said:
Soccer is the most boring sport in the world.
Nothing is even a close second
Kick the ball
Kick thee ball harder
Click to expand...

No, BASEBALL is the most boring piece of shtt sport ever devised. I grew up in the USA, so I watched it growing up, then one day I realized, "why the hell am I watching this CRAP?" And I realized that hell no! I can't stomach watching that garbage and I just quit, on the spot never watched that shht again! Soccer on the other hand is constant relevant action! the way you can tell soccer is a great sport is, what other sports can have tons of exciting moments with a 0-0 score? Baseball meanwhile is 10 guys standing there and 7 of the 10 are doing nothing but scratching their balls 90% of the time. Baseball announcers have to tell stories 90% of the time because there is nothing to describe on the field for the majority of the game.
 
Pitt79 said:
I don't get why Americans are OBSESSED with this issue. It hardly ever happens-ALMOST NEVER- and IMO almost nobody ever seems to draw a call from a fake dive. Calling it WAAAYYYYY more than they do would ruin the game, it would be very AMERICAN to call it more, adding stoppages that are unnecessary. Like in American football where play is constantly being stopped for some useless bullllsht! Better to ignore the "diver" who might or might not be faking, and just play on.
Click to expand...
But they don't ignore the diver-they stop the game and call a foul on the opposing player, which is what annoys me about the men's games. I've played soccer for 30 years, and still can't just turn on a random game. I do enjoy watching the big tournaments like the world cup, I just can't get into watching random games-maybe because I don't have a rooting interest. I watched many of the women's world cup games, and found them to be exciting, though.
 
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