What would you have needed from the Vikings (or another contender who lost their QB) to trade Pickett to them? With this being a deep QB draft, I'd have done it for a 2nd and a 3rd. Maybe a 2nd and a 4th.
OT: Hypothetical Pickett Trade
- Thread starter TheWerewolfFromTwilight
- Start date
Not sure why you'd ask for anything less than their first and another like a 3rd.
The Steelers would be a laughing stock trading him for a 2nd and anything else.
The Steelers would be a laughing stock trading him for a 2nd and anything else.
Unproven #20 pick with two less years of control. Dunno if you're getting what you paid for him plus more (and I know there have been some silly trades for guys Belichick stashed on the 2-deep). Regardless, I'm just asking for the least amount you as a fan would accept.
Last edited:
Why would we trade him for anything less than a 1st? He's the best QB on the roster for a team that's about middle of the pack. And we aren't finished with evaluating him (for reasons I won't get into).
It's a silly hypo because it's not realistic for those reasons above.
Did you me make this post just to take a backhanded shot at Pickett?
Why? I'm not a big believer in Pickett but he's their best QB and the team is sitting in a playoff spot right now. Trading him right now would be one of the wildest trades ever made. I'd only do it if someone offered a deal you can't refuse.
2nd and a 3rd for me. Tank a little this year; take a QB in a deep class with the #13ish pick next year; two seconds and two thirds to help fill holes. Restart the QB rookie contract pay scale. Super Bowl in 2026.
Desperate team who is a contender and likely to be picking in the mid or late 20s. There's no trade without their 1st round pick, and they'd have to throw in at least a third. And that's if you think Pickett isnt the future, because if you think he is you're going to want a lot more.
Think about what proven good QBs command in the trade market.
Your scenario is ridiculous, but you've thought he was a bust since he was drafted. Most others don't share your opinion.
Sam Darnold was a similar performing QB at this point and he went for a 2nd, 4th, and 6th. No one is giving a 1st and 3rd.
Who knows what Minny's evaluation of him is, but he probably was not on a lot of team's board as a first.
Don't see how this helps them, though. His prime value is to the Steelers who invested the first in him and don't have any better options on hand
Don't see how this helps them, though. His prime value is to the Steelers who invested the first in him and don't have any better options on hand
Sam Darnold played 3 seasons before he was traded, made twice the salary, and wasn't traded to anyone thought to be in contention (draft position).
Nevermind that KP already has more comebacks than Darnold has in his entire career.
The Steelers would laugh at that.
It’s actually not the craziest idea ever. Personally I’d rather see Kenny play in a real offense…and statistically there is no difference between him and the #3 QB on our roster for their careers within this steeler offense. There would be no net loss for this year going to Rudolph. The problem is, this coach wouldn’t play Rudolph, he’d go with turnover Mitch.
He's not a proven good QB, so that's not relevant. And I don't consider him a bust - more of a reach, like Terrell Edmunds. I don't think he's done anything to disprove the concerns about him being a first round pick at the time as much as he's validated them.
He's not the guy you build your offense around. That can be fine some years, but he's not going to thrive unless everything around him is in place. I don't think it's a sin to want your quarterback to be a special player. That's a pretty tried and true formula. I think Pickett can be solid, but his arm isn't even close to guys like Kirk Cousins and Geno Smith, let alone the elites.
The Jets were also the worst team in the NFL and were a miracle win from getting Trevor Lawrence. They gave Darnold 3 full seasons and then fired the GM and the Coach and rebooted. They had to trade Darnold. They still had 3 other very good profiles to pick from.
Neither Steelers nor the Vikings pick will be low enough to get Caleb Williams or Drake Maye and it's unclear what other 1st round QBs might be available and whether they will be good. Right now, they all look like similar longshots to Kenny. None have the profile of Justin Fields, who I thought was the 2nd best QB in 2021. Maybe JJ McCarthy has the numbers of Zach Wilson but he doesn't have the arm. None of the other guys have the upside of Trey Lance or Mac Jones's polish. Bo Nix is literally older Kenny in a worse conference. Michael Penix is Mr. Glass, is a full year older than Kenny was at the draft, and also plays in a worse conference. And all of those guys might go before either of our picks. Nor would we be able to trade two 1sts for a rookie QB because none of those other teams would trade with us.
None of those factors are the same with the Steelers. We'd be trading Kenny for like the 4th best pass rusher in the draft and then we'd be looking to start Jimmy G or Jameis. That would be silly.
Last edited:
I'm thinking now he's probably lucky the Steelers picked him, the way he's playing any normal team would start thinking he's a bust and start planning to move on, the Rooneys on the other hand hate to ever change anything. hate to admit they were wrong, will probably start him 3-4 years even if he continues to suck, maybe even pay him a second contract at a cheap rate, like they did Kordell when it was clear he sucked. With the way he's playing he could be the next Josh Rosen and be out of the league or in the XFL if he was with a normal team.
I never said he was. I simply asked what it takes to get a proven good QB? It's going to take multiple number 1s, or some crazy combo of picks and players.
Kenny's 20 games in with the worst OC in football. His eval isn't close to complete for me.
Last edited:
Kenny misses plays every game however he’s been a plus player by some measurements. But you have to wonder what kind of coaching he’d be getting elsewhere.
People keep pointing to that failed TD pass to DJ. I get it, but I have a different take:
I used to coach with a guy who ran the same drills every single practice. It used to annoy me because as his assistant I felt like other things needed to be worked on. But I wasn’t the boss. Well, the boss here runs that same “seven shots” drill every day. Therefore this offense has plenty of experience together down around the goal line. And Pickett generally does pretty well in that drill. So that miss was simply a miss. It happened by the slimmest of margins.
However every minute they spend on that drill is one less minute they spend on the other things. Seems to me they have to do better getting to the red zone and should spend more time on other things. There was a 3rd and 2 on Sunday when Kenny hit Warren for no gain. But if Kenny holds onto the ball a split second longer, he had Pickens flashing open for a big gain. These are the types of nuances Kenny should be coached on and hopefully he is…but there’s no indication he is. They’d rather spend their time working on red zone drills when they should be working on ways to get into the red zone first. Whether it’s the run game or the pass game, we aren’t coached well and therefore don’t execute. And of course the defense always knows whether it’s a run play or pass play so execution is going to be difficult anyways.
Nice post.
We are still at the stage were in most years the qb draft talent is highly over valued.
IMO Maye is a big nfl talent and Williams is worthy of a very high pick.
The rest are KP give or take.
Apparently he's been playing hurt with a pretty nagging injury so I don't think anyone would consider him a "bust". If anything, there should be some scrutiny of the franchise for not employing a backup who doesn't just heave the ball into triple coverage.
Why do you feel the 4-4 Vikings are in a better position to make a playoff run than the 4-3 Steelers.
Its a mess overall.
KP clearly is missing plays, but Canada is a pure disaster, Mike Tomlin being the only coach in the NFL willing to trigger the Peter Principle by making him an OC at that level. And it's like each player / unit on offense feels its their responsibility every game to do something stupid to derail at least one drive.
Who said that? This was labeled a hypothetical and pitched after the trade deadline was already over.
Although given the strengths of the two conferences, the Vikings probably are in a better position if the QB situation is exactly equal.
This year could easily see 5 QBs in the first round depending on who enters the draft. Williams, Maye, Nix, Penix Jr., McCarthy will want out of the Michigan shadow, Ewers, Jurkovich. Sorry, that last one was supposed to be in the TE pool.
Nix has 3 years as a solid SEC QB and 2 years as a phenomenal PAC QB (A far superior conference than the Coastal when Pickett played. In 2022 he played 5 teams that finished int he top 25 and will likely have another 5 this season. Kenny played a whopping 2 in his Heisman finalist season).
Penix will be 1 month older than Pickett was on draft day.
I get your points about the differences between the two at the time of trade, but do you really think a team is giving up a 1st and 3rd for a QB that has more INTs than TDs and a 35 QBR? Why would they do that when they can trade their 1st and 3rd to move up into the top 15, possibly top 10 to get a younger QB?
The question was what would it take for you to trade KP to the Vikings or another contender. Neither the Vikings (with a serviceable QB) or any contender are moving up into the top 10 trading their 1st and a 3rd, and likely not even the top 15.
They're trading for a QB because they have a team they think can win now, not building for the future. Under your scenario they should just tank and get a good pick.
You don't fire sale a low cost QB 20 games in because he isn't lighting it up in Matt Canada's offense behind the worst OL in the NFL.
Last edited:
The 7 shots drill must be very scripted, it's pretty easy to guess the RZ play calls, it's frustrating to watch how often they pass-pass-pass to the RZ, then usually go run-run-incomplete fade pass-FG. why is it so rare for them to go early down pass to the middle of the end zone?
Nix is on track to play 59 games, almost a full season more than Pickett. His best season stats - with all of that extra experience - are broadly similar to Pickett's. Efficiency is ever so slightly better, raw numbers are way worse. He will not play a top 20 defense (KP played a top 10 in Clemson and won). His 2nd hardest defense isn't in the top 50. He's literally Kenny Pickett in a worse conference.
Penix, similar story. Terrible conference. Throws way more INTs than Pickett. Four season ending injuries, including both ACLs and a shoulder.
McCarthy like I said will have a similar profile to Zach Wilson in a better conference. Which is good. Raw numbers kinda suck and I hope for his sake that is a product of his offense. I don't know enough about scouting to say that he's an NFL starter for sure. I doubt his arm is as good as Wilson's.
Again, these are not players you dump Kenny for. They are not sure things. If we could dump Kenny for a profile like Justin Fields then yes I would. I would not do it for a guy who played in 59 games on a similar arc to Kenny. It would be ludicrous to do that. And again, that's even assuming they finish low enough to draft any of these guys which is no guarantee. You absolutely do not trade KP for a 2nd round pick, or worse, and then use that pick on a developmental OT while starting Mitch Trubisky. You'd have to be completely mental or just an arsonist to do that.
Let's not pretend that Pickett played good defenses. It's basically a toss up with who faced worse defenses.
Guess how many defenses Kenny played against in his final year that were ranked higher than 90th in passing yards allowed per game. The answer is 5. Seven teams that Pickett faced were ranked 90th or worse in passing defense, including 124th, 126th, and 129th (out of 130 teams). The average passing defensive rank that Pickett faced was 82nd.
Nix is on pace to face 5 teams better than 90th and 7 team worse than 90th. He will also face (if rankings remain) 3 top 10 worst pass defenses just as Pickett did. His average pass defense faced will be 93rd. But his efficiency is no just slightly better. He's got 21 TDs to 1 Interception. He's completion percentage is 11% higher than Pickett's final season. His passer rating is 13 points higher. His 4th season stats were light years better than Kenny's.
Absolutely nothing against Pickett, I think the two are very comparable in terms of ability and production. The biggest difference is they are on 2 completely different offenses. Would Nix raw stats be higher if he wasn't playing on one of the best rushing teams in the nation? Definitely. Would his efficiency numbers go down at the same time? Also yes.
Either way, the original argument was that somehow the PAC was worse than the 2019-21 Coastal. Not that he faced worse defenses.
it wont happen but i'd like to see the steelers look into Tanneyhill for next year, especially if Levis is their man.
No self respecting QB in free agency is coming to PGH as long as Canada is OC.
That's the very first problem that needs fixed. Other thing, if I'm going to go blow some money in FA, I'm getting some OL-men before I blow a wad on QB. Doesn't matter who you put back there when there are plays where the QB can't even make a read on his primary receiver.
Then you need .to hope they don't go find another Neanderthal OC who believes in 1970s pound the rock garbage and get a 2024 pass offense strategist. Likely Tomlin and Rooney are too stupid to choose modernity.
Limiting the comparison to PAC vs. the "Coastal" is a convenient way to eliminate the best defense either played, which is Clemson. I agree that Kenny played crap defenses, too, from an overall standpoint. But 2021 Clemson was the best by a good margin at preventing scoring and he beat them.
And if you want to keep arguing about who was better, Kenny put up 40 more passing yards per game. He rushed for 6 more per game. Kenny averaged .5 TD more per game.
But all of that is besides the point. They are essentially the same player: a super old, super experienced prospect who probably isn't going to be a dominant NFL QB because we just don't ever see guys who need 50+ starts to prove they can play in the NFL. I would not trade Kenny for the opportunity to draft the next Kenny.
This is such a stupid hypo for this exact reason. It shouldn't happen, it's not going to happen, and neither party involve would want it to happen. I regret replying in the first place because I knew it was a trap lol.
And we need to ask ourselves why they still stink!! We don’t develop any players on offense. What’s our OL coach doing? We can’t run the ball and our 1st round RB still can’t hit a hole. What’s our RB coach doing? Whats our receiver coach doing? DJ is our high priced receiver and he still giveth and he still taketh away. When has any player in our offense gotten better? Can we think of anyone?
What’s munchak doing these days?
Where does the Steelers rank in run offense compared to pass offense?
Tenn is giving up 100+ yards per game rushing. They are one of the worst in the league against the run. Screw all the Kenny talk. Would you bet any money on any of our backs getting 100 yards? 80? 60? 50? The whole thing is a joke.
i agree and i dont know. i see former OL sucking and leaving the steelers and suceeeding elsewhere, makes me think coaching is an issue..
alot of that going around recently, players not doing well wearing steelers uniforms and having success after leaving. Reminds me of the pirates. it didnt used to be this way..'
but i agree, the Cole is terrible, was decent last year and is horrible this year. Chuks has always been blah.
Similar threads
