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President Stache

Heisman Winner
Dec 4, 2010
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Glaswhen? Glasnow biotches.

Well, 4 of the starters are up now in Pittsburgh, and cant say I think any are worse than what we had. I would have to think if we can trade Frankie, Locke or Neise for anything we should go ahead and do so. I think Tallion and Glasnow together with inning limits will be one spot that stays and Cole is coming back, Kuhl is more than serviceable, and the new lefty Brault looks to be no worse than Locke/Neise. The bullpen is lights out, Nicasio transitioning there is a great move and Melancon is Melancon.

Defense looks sharp, Frazier has provided a spark, Kang is having issues with various curves, but gosh, if you would pick one guy on the team you think that wouldnt happen to, I woulda picked him. But, the team is turning around. I look for Bell to surplant Jaso later, Jaso is not better than Sean Rod, and is horrible on the base paths, and Cutch you think just has to come around soon. With a favorable schedule coming up, maybe we make a run.
 
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Good to know that we can conclude that Brault, he of 4 major league innings, is at least as good as two guys with a combined 300 appearances
 
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KennyTheKangaroo said:
Good to know that we can conclude that Brault, he of 4 major league innings, is at least as good as two guys with a combined 300 appearances
Click to expand...

The Pirates have concluded that Niese is no longer needed, as they have him on the trade market. Won't get anything for him because he's garbage, which is why that trade was dumb to begin with.
 
Disagree with you MVK Neise is marketable a left handed starting pitcher personally I would trade locke before I would Neise. We have seen Jeff Locke first half success before followed by his second half failures. Definitely bring Bell up.
 
Have you seen Niese pitch last year or this year? They might get a low A project for him.

He was removed from the rotation last year in NY now he's being removed this year.
 
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I would trade Locke and Niese for a case of warm beer, and a box of broken bats.
 
I have seen Neise & Locke and to me Neise is the better pitcher. Locke doesn't have it between his ears you would probably get a double a or a single a prospect for Locke. Neise you would get a triple a or a marginal major leaguer.
 
yourhired said:
I have seen Neise & Locke and to me Neise is the better pitcher. Locke doesn't have it between his ears you would probably get a double a or a single a prospect for Locke. Neise you would get a triple a or a marginal major leaguer.
Click to expand...

Neither one is any good, neither would get anything special in return, certainly nothing described as a prospect (meaning a top 15 prospect from another organization). In regards to Niese, you're not getting a marginal major leaguer for a subpar major leaguer with a $10m contract.
 
KennyTheKangaroo said:
Good to know that we can conclude that Brault, he of 4 major league innings, is at least as good as two guys with a combined 300 appearances
Click to expand...

I didnt conclude anything... just basing opinion on my vast baseball knowledge. I have no idea what Brault will or wont be. But, we are pretty sure what Neise and Locke are... not a knock on those 2 guys either, but are OK major league starters. I would rather take a look at an unproven commodity that has shown promise than keep the mediocrity. If Brault or whoever fail, we always have that known mediocre commodity to fall back on.

Edit: I am aware that negativity surrounds the minds of Pittsburghers like mosquitos on a fisherman, but the fact is the Pirates are playing better lately, and no matter what the reason is, you cant dispute some energy has been infused into the team. Needed a shake-up.
 
yourhired said:
I have seen Neise & Locke and to me Neise is the better pitcher. Locke doesn't have it between his ears you would probably get a double a or a single a prospect for Locke. Neise you would get a triple a or a marginal major leaguer.
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Could probably get a bullpen flyer for Niese, along the lines of Joe Blanton last year or Ernesto Frieri the year before that. A guy on the verge of being DFA'd who you gamble will get hot for a month or two. Obviously the Pirates didn't trade for Blanton last year (he actually did get DFA'd), but you could get an arm like that for someone like Niese given how easy both will be to get rid of.

Locke might bring back an actual prospect, like a lower level 40 FV type guy (basically a future bullpen piece or platoon bat in AA right now). He's a legit 5th starter, albeit as a guy who is into arbitration so has less value as a trade chip.

Liriano is a total wild card. He's been worse than both this year but some team might believe he can bounce back.

Contracts matter. It's why the Pirates couldn't get squat for Walker. He had no surplus value (same as Niese).
 
Glasnow write-up from Baseball Prospectus. As they note, there are going to be some growing pains with repeating his mechanics and developing his changeup into something resembling average:

"Background: Glasnow was a fifth-round pick in 2011, highlighting the tremendous work the Pirates' scouting and player development has done in selecting and grooming players. He has been steadily rising up our Top 101 rankings checking in at 42nd, 21st and 11th over the past three years. He was signed out of high school in Santa Clara, California and turns 23 next month.

Scouting report: Standing six-foot-eight, length is an advantage for Glasnow’s fastball. In his most recent start on Saturday night at Toledo, he reached as high as 97, sitting in the mid 90s the entire night. Throwing downhill, he had sink and run, totaling up to a plus-plus pitch. His curveball rivals his fastball, coming in hard with 11-5 break, but also backing up to 12-6 occasionally to give it a different look. These are his bread-and-butter pitches, focusing heavily on a mix of the two. The changeup is a work in progress as he struggles with command of it. Many believe it will be at least an average pitch in the majors, which will come with time and reps.

The big issues for Glasnow have been his control, command and working with runners on. Because of his height his mechanics and delivery will always require some upkeep to ensure consistency, and this is doubly true with runners on. In a recent start his tempo changed with men aboard, and he was visibly uncomfortable, throwing over multiple times, and struggling with his command. If this is a problem in Triple-A, it will only be exploited in the majors."
 
President Stache said:
Glaswhen? Glasnow biotches.

Well, 4 of the starters are up now in Pittsburgh, and cant say I think any are worse than what we had. I would have to think if we can trade Frankie, Locke or Neise for anything we should go ahead and do so. I think Tallion and Glasnow together with inning limits will be one spot that stays and Cole is coming back, Kuhl is more than serviceable, and the new lefty Brault looks to be no worse than Locke/Neise. The bullpen is lights out, Nicasio transitioning there is a great move and Melancon is Melancon.

Defense looks sharp, Frazier has provided a spark, Kang is having issues with various curves, but gosh, if you would pick one guy on the team you think that wouldnt happen to, I woulda picked him. But, the team is turning around. I look for Bell to surplant Jaso later, Jaso is not better than Sean Rod, and is horrible on the base paths, and Cutch you think just has to come around soon. With a favorable schedule coming up, maybe we make a run.
Click to expand...

Frankie hasn't pitched well at all this year. He would be great trade bait with a year and a half left on his contract but the return value has to have been diminished the way he has been pitching. Locke has pitched pretty well the past month. Neise is solid for a back of the rotation guy. The bullpen has been lights out which has fueled Pittsburgh's hot streak.

I would like to see Taillon, Glasnow and Kuhl stay up the rest of the year. Get what you can for Frankie. Hope that Cole comes back strong. This team can make a big run if the stating pitching can match what the bullpen has been doing the rest of the year. Their starting 8 and bench are the best they have had in a long long time. And if Bell can come up and supplant Jaso at first so much the better.
 
From JJ Cooper:
Tyler Glasnow career avg against: 172. No other MILB SP has posted a qualifying season with a .172 or better avg against in past 10 years.

Walks don't matter as much when you don't allow hits and K a ton of batters.
 
mvk112 said:
From JJ Cooper:
Tyler Glasnow career avg against: 172. No other MILB SP has posted a qualifying season with a .172 or better avg against in past 10 years.

Walks don't matter as much when you don't allow hits and K a ton of batters.
Click to expand...

Also from JJ Cooper:

"With Brault/Kuhl Pirates get SPs who are lower ceiling but reliable rookie SPs. Glasnow could go out and throw 7 no-hit or be done after 2."

Walks are going to insert a ton of volatility into Glasnow's season. They matter quite a bit.
 
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Walks do matter... but overpowering stuff is something you cant overlook.

My whole thoughts on this is Glasnow just doesnt have control he needs, BUT, he isnt going to get that control over the next month, or maybe never really. But, even with his control issues he has been a dominant pitcher. He can TRY to improve his control issues at AAA and be there 2 more years and still have the same issues, or bring him up and see how he does here. I like the move. He has had a solid year at AAA now, and quite frankly has had Tim Lincecum type numbers in the minors. If he can come up and be any where close to a Lincecum for us we are doing great.

As for Brault, I vision this guy as a version 2 of Locke. Both are Buerle/Glavine types. Locke is inconsistent and a little bit of a head case, maybe v2 will work better. I have no idea, I like Braults delivery and arm slot... but I liked Locke too when he was in Bradenton in the minors and I had him out at our pitching clinic there. Neise is a seasoned pitcher, and wont get rattled. I like that as well. But, we cant line the team with 5 era type back of the rotation guys and hope to win pennants. Frankie has always been a bit erratic. He has great stuff, but so streaky. With his contract and upside I think we have to keep him though of the 3.
 
President Stache said:
Walks do matter... but overpowering stuff is something you cant overlook.

My whole thoughts on this is Glasnow just doesnt have control he needs, BUT, he isnt going to get that control over the next month, or maybe never really. But, even with his control issues he has been a dominant pitcher. He can TRY to improve his control issues at AAA and be there 2 more years and still have the same issues, or bring him up and see how he does here. I like the move. He has had a solid year at AAA now, and quite frankly has had Tim Lincecum type numbers in the minors. If he can come up and be any where close to a Lincecum for us we are doing great.

As for Brault, I vision this guy as a version 2 of Locke. Both are Buerle/Glavine types. Locke is inconsistent and a little bit of a head case, maybe v2 will work better. I have no idea, I like Braults delivery and arm slot... but I liked Locke too when he was in Bradenton in the minors and I had him out at our pitching clinic there. Neise is a seasoned pitcher, and wont get rattled. I like that as well. But, we cant line the team with 5 era type back of the rotation guys and hope to win pennants. Frankie has always been a bit erratic. He has great stuff, but so streaky. With his contract and upside I think we have to keep him though of the 3.
Click to expand...

Glasnow needs to come up and refine himself further at the MLB level, there's no doubt that he needs challenged, I just think the hype is out of control -- similar to Polanco. Glasnow's rated highly because of his potential, not his current abilities. Every single writeup is basically "he's really good and guys can't square him up, but he's also unable to command his pitches, function with runners on, and will probably get squared up more in the majors unless he develops his changeup -- so expect some blow ups, too".

Similar to Polanco, he can tighten these things up in time, but he needs to be challenged in order to really have that happen. Glasnow is going to be exciting, but I'd be surprised if he's some kind of panacea. The goal was never for him to dominate this year, it was to come up and take his rookie lumps alongside the other AAA arms so that they can just go and not look back next year.

Francisco Liriano was another guy who lived by striking out a ton of guys and inducing weak contact -- then his style of pitching saw hitters adjust, his walks just blew up, and have now became unmanageable. Glasnow's BB/9 in AAA would currently be the 2nd highest in the majors -- behind only Francisco Liriano. And, typically, a guy who comes up from AAA is going to see his K's dip and his BB's increase. It's a massive gap between MLB and AAA in this era.

I think Brault can be a Jon Niese or Wei-Yin Chen type. Solid 4th starter who is pretty consistently in the 2.0-3.0 WAR range in his prime years. Command/control lefty with some deception. If he can be the Pirates' 5th starter, that's all the better.
 
mvk112 said:
From JJ Cooper:
Tyler Glasnow career avg against: 172. No other MILB SP has posted a qualifying season with a .172 or better avg against in past 10 years.

.
Click to expand...

It's quite a stretch to extrapolate his performance in the leagues he's pitched to MLB, though.
 
Pittbaseball11 said:
Glasnow needs to come up and refine himself further at the MLB level, there's no doubt that he needs challenged, I just think the hype is out of control -- similar to Polanco. Glasnow's rated highly because of his potential, not his current abilities. Every single writeup is basically "he's really good and guys can't square him up, but he's also unable to command his pitches, function with runners on, and will probably get squared up more in the majors unless he develops his changeup -- so expect some blow ups, too".

I think Brault can be a Jon Niese or Wei-Yin Chen type. Solid 4th starter who is pretty consistently in the 2.0-3.0 WAR range in his prime years. Command/control lefty with some deception. If he can be the Pirates' 5th starter, that's all the better.
Click to expand...

I agree with most everything, and truly enjoy your posts when you post, as you are very knowledgeable, and really if you had your own baseball blog I would read it (not just cause we are pitt baseball brothers). But I think you arent really giving the kid his due. His hype is on his current abilities. He is DOMINATING at the minor league level

His career in the minors has this line:
LEVE W L ERA G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR HB BB SO AVG WHIP GO/AO
Minors 35 18 2.01 98 97 0 0 0 0 479.1 285 142 107 22 16 230 614 .172 1.07 0.90

His hits to inning pitch is extraordinary. His career has batters batting .172 and even with his walks his whip is 1.07. He has developed his changeup and really his issue from the games I saw him pitch is his curve is so nasty he cant control it, and when hitters lay off it, they tend to walk. His ceiling is very high. As for hype, I think it is more a Pittsburgh thing, as he is only rated as an excellent prospect, he isnt in the top 3 on any list. Should he be? Based on the numbers you would have to think it is not just hype, it is actual performance. With a future rotation of Cole, Glasnow and Tallion... that is some sick pitching. Im excited to see how this pans out.

by the way... I would look for the Pirates to pick up Ryan Webb
 
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President Stache said:
I agree with most everything, and truly enjoy your posts when you post, as you are very knowledgeable, and really if you had your own baseball blog I would read it (not just cause we are pitt baseball brothers). But I think you arent really giving the kid his due. His hype is on his current abilities. He is DOMINATING at the minor league level

His career in the minors has this line:
LEVE W L ERA G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR HB BB SO AVG WHIP GO/AO
Minors 35 18 2.01 98 97 0 0 0 0 479.1 285 142 107 22 16 230 614 .172 1.07 0.90

His hits to inning pitch is extraordinary. His career has batters batting .172 and even with his walks his whip is 1.07. He has developed his changeup and really his issue from the games I saw him pitch is his curve is so nasty he cant control it, and when hitters lay off it, they tend to walk. His ceiling is very high. As for hype, I think it is more a Pittsburgh thing, as he is only rated as an excellent prospect, he isnt in the top 3 on any list. Should he be? Based on the numbers you would have to think it is not just hype, it is actual performance. With a future rotation of Cole, Glasnow and Tallion... that is some sick pitching. Im excited to see how this pans out.

by the way... I would look for the Pirates to pick up Ryan Webb
Click to expand...

Appreciate it and I definitely am not trying to kill the guy. I do think he's pretty talented, and I think he's going to be great in time -- I just think he might have some initial struggles, similar to Jose Berrios and Julio Urias.

As you said, he struggles to control the curve at times, and without a changeup teams just sit on his fastball. Usually that leads to walks, but I think at the ML level he's going to get hit more, too. I think if he has a day where he's spotting the curveball that he will be REALLY good, and I think if he's missing that he's going to be pretty damn bad and kill the bullpen.

I do think he was overly hyped in Pittsburgh more so than nationally, which tends to be the case. Pittsburgh has seemingly been proclaiming him ready and clamoring for him for months, whereas I've yet to see anybody who has seen him in person say "he's ready".

It would be great to see him have a good start tomorrow and provide another shot in the arm heading into the break.

Webb wouldn't surprise me at all as some bullpen depth for the 2nd half. Big time ground ball guy, ERA is higher than his peripherals -- that's a combination the Pirates tend to go for.
 
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I think the Pirates should trade McCutchen while he is worth something, they have plenty of good young outfielders they could bring up and or move Around who they have
 
Pittbaseball11 said:
Glasnow needs to come up and refine himself further at the MLB level, there's no doubt that he needs challenged, I just think the hype is out of control -- similar to Polanco. Glasnow's rated highly because of his potential, not his current abilities. Every single writeup is basically "he's really good and guys can't square him up, but he's also unable to command his pitches, function with runners on, and will probably get squared up more in the majors unless he develops his changeup -- so expect some blow ups, too".

Similar to Polanco, he can tighten these things up in time, but he needs to be challenged in order to really have that happen. Glasnow is going to be exciting, but I'd be surprised if he's some kind of panacea. The goal was never for him to dominate this year, it was to come up and take his rookie lumps alongside the other AAA arms so that they can just go and not look back next year.

Francisco Liriano was another guy who lived by striking out a ton of guys and inducing weak contact -- then his style of pitching saw hitters adjust, his walks just blew up, and have now became unmanageable. Glasnow's BB/9 in AAA would currently be the 2nd highest in the majors -- behind only Francisco Liriano. And, typically, a guy who comes up from AAA is going to see his K's dip and his BB's increase. It's a massive gap between MLB and AAA in this era.

I think Brault can be a Jon Niese or Wei-Yin Chen type. Solid 4th starter who is pretty consistently in the 2.0-3.0 WAR range in his prime years. Command/control lefty with some deception. If he can be the Pirates' 5th starter, that's all the better.
Click to expand...
Along those lines, I forget the exact quote, but Tallion said something to the effect that it is much harder to get people out in the majors. You can't overwhelm them like you can at AAA.
 
Cap pitt said:
I think the Pirates should trade McCutchen while he is worth something, they have plenty of good young outfielders they could bring up and or move Around who they have
Click to expand...

In due time. You don't want to trade him now, when he is at his lowest value. You have 2 more years of club control after this season. You also want Austin Meadows to prove he is ready. You don't sell low.
 
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Cap pitt said:
I think the Pirates should trade McCutchen while he is worth something, they have plenty of good young outfielders they could bring up and or move Around who they have
Click to expand...
You could see that but not till next year at the earliest.
 
Nobody expects Glasnow and Taillon to have sub 2.00 ERAs in the majors but they're going to both be much better than Nicasio, Niese, and Locke were/are.

It's ridiculous that people continue to defend the organization for putting those three out there in the rotation for half the season so far.
 
Then again, Glasnow may never give up a hit. A joke they wasted so much time with him in AAA.
 
mvk112 said:
Nobody expects Glasnow and Taillon to have sub 2.00 ERAs in the majors but they're going to both be much better than Nicasio, Niese, and Locke were/are.

It's ridiculous that people continue to defend the organization for putting those three out there in the rotation for half the season so far.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to defend them, but I also at the same time understand why they did it. Running an MLB franchise isn't like running your fantasy baseball team. There are so many things to take into consideration.
 
pittdan77 said:
What's obvious is that whatever plan the franchise had for the season has pretty much blown up in their face.
Click to expand...
Blown up so hard that they still sit over .500 and are only 2.5 games out of a WC spot?

Whatever the plan was for this year, I do know that the next 3-5 years look exceptionally bright.
 
Pittguy1980 said:
I'm not going to defend them, but I also at the same time understand why they did it. Running an MLB franchise isn't like running your fantasy baseball team. There are so many things to take into consideration.
Click to expand...

And that's a load of crap. If you want to be a championship contender, you gotta give your team best chance to win. That means Glasnow/Taillon in April, not June/July.
 
pittdan77 said:
What's obvious is that whatever plan the franchise had for the season has pretty much blown up in their face.
Click to expand...
And yet they find themselves in the thick of the wild card race despite the fact that they have had some significant injuries. I don't think the Pirates themselves expected to be much better than they are. They seemed to be willing to drop a bit this year and then next year hope the young pitchers(along with kingman and Cumpton) can make for a good rotation. I have no problem with that, I don't expect them to sign Happ to a 3 year deal when he has never been more than a 5th starter except for a short time last year. Now I will have a problem if they are real close next year or in 2018 and they don't attempt to add a player at a need position.
 
Pittguy1980 said:
Blown up so hard that they still sit over .500 and are only 2.5 games out of a WC spot?

Whatever the plan was for this year, I do know that the next 3-5 years look exceptionally bright.
Click to expand...

They won 98 last year and punted on the first half of the year. Being 2.5 out of the 2nd wild card at this point isn't a thing to celebrate.
 
mvk112 said:
And that's a load of crap. If you want to be a championship contender, you gotta give your team best chance to win. That means Glasnow/Taillon in April, not June/July.
Click to expand...

The best way to win a championship is maximize your chances and assets. That
Wand not making rash decisions that may seem to help the short term, but greatly impact the long term in a negative way.

Like I said, this isn't your fantasy baseball team.
 
mvk112 said:
And that's a load of crap. If you want to be a championship contender, you gotta give your team best chance to win. That means Glasnow/Taillon in April, not June/July.
Click to expand...
Do that and you lose a year of control which might be the difference between a very good team or just a good team in 5 or 6 years when you lose a guy like Tailon, assuming he becomes a stud. Or look at it in Coles case. I believe the pirates have control for 3 more years, had they moved him up right away it would be two. You have to be smart as long as they are attempting to win and actually investing in the system I don't have a problem with it. Now when they were drafting guys like Moskos and sanchez just because they thought they could sign them cheaply thats when I have a problem but they are extending guys like Marte, Polanco, Liriano and Cervelli.
 
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