OT: NEC and Duquesne football

[HailToPitt725]

The NEC is on the brink of extinction after Merrimack and Sacred Heart announce their intention to join the MAAC. There may be additional members leaving as well.

Although Duquesne is in the Atlantic 10, they are an associate member for football. What happens to their football program if the NEC dissolves? I believe Robert Morris is an associate member in the Big South for football… maybe that’s a potential home? If not, do they go big and join the CAA, or perhaps the Patriot League?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

No biggie really. They drop to 7 but can add any random D2 school (IUP or Cal U???) to get back to 8 and keep their auto NCAAT bid. And they'll still have 5 football playing members + football-only Duquesne to make 6 to keep their auto bid. They are probably regretting kicking RMU and Bryant out of their football league though. Maybe they'll add them and allow Merrimack and Sacred Heart to stay for football.

 

[Burgh15]

Super Conferences in D2?

 

[JD1976]

No biggie really. They drop to 7 but can add any random D2 school (IUP or Cal U???) to get back to 8 and keep their auto NCAAT bid. And they'll still have 5 football playing members + football-only Duquesne to make 6 to keep their auto bid. They are probably regretting kicking RMU and Bryant out of their football league though. Maybe they'll add them and allow Merrimack and Sacred Heart to stay for football.

I’ve been hearing IUP and Cal to D-1 for almost 30 years. If it didn’t happen already, I don’t see how they could justify moving up in light of the state system’s glaring financial issues.

 

[Upg bobcat]

Duquesne used to be in MAAC for football, but I am pretty sure the conference no longer sponsors the sport and when MAAC dropped football, Duquesne joined the NEC. I would imagine Merrimack and Sacred Heart will stay in NEC for football.

If NEC football is in jeopardy then, geographically, it would probably make sense to add Duquesne and St. Francis into the Patriot League.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Duquesne used to be in MAAC for football, but I am pretty sure the conference no longer sponsors the sport and when MAAC dropped football, Duquesne joined the NEC. I would imagine Merrimack and Sacred Heart will stay in NEC for football.

If NEC football is in jeopardy then, geographically, it would probably make sense to add Duquesne and St. Francis into the Patriot League.

I think the worry is that this might not be the last departures from the NEC. Supposedly, FDU and Wagner want out and the CAA might be interested. They might not even have enough members to continue forward, let alone sponsor football. Going to be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I think the worry is that this might not be the last departures from the NEC. Supposedly, FDU and Wagner want out and the CAA might be interested. They might not even have enough members to continue forward, let alone sponsor football. Going to be interesting to see what happens.

I dont know why these small schools want mega conferences. They only get 1 NCAA bid. I'd want 8 and only 8. Shoot the MAAC now has 13. What does Merrimack and Sacred Heart bring that league? What would Wagner and FDU bring? That would be 15. Now, maybe they want to go to 16 to break into 2 leagues to get 2 auto bids. The A-Sun tried that and I proposed that for the A10.

MAAC South (NYC area bus league)
Iona
Manhattan
Wagner
FDU
Rider
SPC
Marist
1 more

MAAC North
Merrimack
Sacred Heart
Quinnipiac
Fairfield
Canisius
Niagara
Siena
Mount St. Mary's

 

[Upg bobcat]

I dont know why these small schools want mega conferences. They only get 1 NCAA bid. I'd want 8 and only 8. Shoot the MAAC now has 13. What does Merrimack and Sacred Heart bring that league? What would Wagner and FDU bring? That would be 15. Now, maybe they want to go to 16 to break into 2 leagues to get 2 auto bids. The A-Sun tried that and I proposed that for the A10.

MAAC South (NYC area bus league)
Iona
Manhattan
Wagner
FDU
Rider
SPC
Marist
1 more

MAAC North
Merrimack
Sacred Heart
Quinnipiac
Fairfield
Canisius
Niagara
Siena
Mount St. Mary's

Geographically, that is not a ridiculous conference. Mount St. Mary's is out of place in the north though.

I totally agree that 8 teams make the most sense, although 9 or 10 is reasonable. But the leagues are always chasing the money and I guess Flo Sports or whatever other channels/services out there are willing to pay a bit more if you have more teams.

There is no such thing as a 2 auto-bid league, as least for now, right? What is the status of the NCAAT expansion talks?

 

[HailToPitt725]

I dont know why these small schools want mega conferences. They only get 1 NCAA bid. I'd want 8 and only 8. Shoot the MAAC now has 13. What does Merrimack and Sacred Heart bring that league? What would Wagner and FDU bring? That would be 15. Now, maybe they want to go to 16 to break into 2 leagues to get 2 auto bids. The A-Sun tried that and I proposed that for the A10.

MAAC South (NYC area bus league)
Iona
Manhattan
Wagner
FDU
Rider
SPC
Marist
1 more

MAAC North
Merrimack
Sacred Heart
Quinnipiac
Fairfield
Canisius
Niagara
Siena
Mount St. Mary's

Throw Long Island University from the NEC into the ‘Bus League’ and you’d be set. Too bad SFBK dissolved their athletics program or else they’d be an even more natural fit in that conference.

There’s a lot of mid-major leagues that’d benefit from strategically “trading” a few schools to reduce travel. MAAC and NEC in the northeast, MVC/OVC/Summit in the midwest, etc.

 

[pittdan77]

Saint Francis is in the NEC as well so geographically, they're in the same boat. The Patriot League isn't in the best shape either. Duquesne's problem is that most conferences want a school to be all in for every sport.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Geographically, that is not a ridiculous conference. Mount St. Mary's is out of place in the north though.

I totally agree that 8 teams make the most sense, although 9 or 10 is reasonable. But the leagues are always chasing the money and I guess Flo Sports or whatever other channels/services out there are willing to pay a bit more if you have more teams.

There is no such thing as a 2 auto-bid league, as least for now, right? What is the status of the NCAAT expansion talks?

I know MSM is out of place but I was trying to keep the NY/NJ schools together.

In this hypothetical example, the MAAC North and MAAC South would be 2 entirely different conferences so each would get an auto bid. The A-Sun planned to do that but got raised by CUSA. Each could play a 14 game regular season schedule and the play the other 8 schools in the non-con so it would still be like 1 16 team league but with 2 auto bids.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Saint Francis is in the NEC as well so geographically, they're in the same boat. The Patriot League isn't in the best shape either. Duquesne's problem is that most conferences want a school to be all in for every sport.

It’s too bad Davidson and Dayton compete in the non-scholarship Pioneer League. Otherwise, the A-10 could theoretically sponsor football again:

Davidson
Dayton
Duquesne
Fordham
Rhode Island
Richmond
UMass (FBS)

The A-10 and CAA could also use some “strategic trading” amongst each other to create more geographic-centric leagues.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The NEC added RMU back for lacrosse so I would think that they would be open to adding them back for football. I dont think the NEC is in a position where they can punish football teams for leaving. Maybe you kick out Merrimack because they helped them transition from D2 and left at the first opportunity but they should probably add back RMU football.

 

[HailToPitt725]

The NEC added RMU back for lacrosse so I would think that they would be open to adding them back for football. I dont think the NEC is in a position where they can punish football teams for leaving. Maybe you kick out Merrimack because they helped them transition from D2 and left at the first opportunity but they should probably add back RMU football.

I have a buddy who gradated from Mercyhurst and apparently they’ve looked at moving up to D1 with the NEC being a potential landing spot. They’re already D1 in hockey and have a loyal alum base. I think they’d be a good fit and it’d give them an extra football member (eventually).

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

I thought this was about possibly recruiting Duquesne’s QB to play at Pitt next year. They somehow threw for 230 yards and a couple of TDs on the same defense that held 5-star Phil to 80 yards and 3 picks. I know having better QB play than Duquesne is a lot to ask, but a boy can dream, right?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I have a buddy who gradated from Mercyhurst and apparently they’ve looked at moving up to D1 with the NEC being a potential landing spot. They’re already D1 in hockey and have a loyal alum base. I think they’d be a good fit and it’d give them an extra football member (eventually).

I never really thought about Mercyhurst but yea, that would make a lot of sense since Erie has to be one of the largest markets without D1 sports. Not that Erie is that big but the county has 270K people and is 90+ minutes away from St. Bonaventure, Cleveland State, Youngstown State, and SUNY-Buffalo and obviously with those being mid-majors or a non-P6/high major like SBU, no one in Erie is going to follow those teams. I also thought Gannon would be a possibility.

 

[HailToPitt725]

I never really thought about Mercyhurst but yea, that would make a lot of sense since Erie has to be one of the largest markets without D1 sports. Not that Erie is that big but the county has 270K people and is 90+ minutes away from St. Bonaventure, Cleveland State, Youngstown State, and SUNY-Buffalo and obviously with those being mid-majors or a non-P6/high major like SBU, no one in Erie is going to follow those teams. I also thought Gannon would be a possibility.

Yeah, I think those are the types of programs that would move up into the NEC versus, say, IUP or Slippery Rock. They’re developing a profile as the small, private, northeast conference for those who can’t land an MAAC invite.

 

[USN_Panther]

Geographically, that is not a ridiculous conference. Mount St. Mary's is out of place in the north though.

I totally agree that 8 teams make the most sense, although 9 or 10 is reasonable. But the leagues are always chasing the money and I guess Flo Sports or whatever other channels/services out there are willing to pay a bit more if you have more teams.

There is no such thing as a 2 auto-bid league, as least for now, right? What is the status of the NCAAT expansion talks?

Mt St Mary's is in Emmitsburg Maryland. That is only a few km from PA. I would consider that northern. Definitely northern weather.

 

[Upg bobcat]

Mt St Mary's is in Emmitsburg Maryland. That is only a few km from PA. I would consider that northern. Definitely northern weather.

Totally agree, but the conference divisions proposed above was that the South Division include all NYC or NYC suburb schools, so the North Division would be essentially be "north of NYC." Mt St Mary's is definitely south of NYC so it's a fish out of water in that Division.

I guess you could rename the divisions to something like Metro Division (the NYC area) and Regional Division (everyone else), but MSM still would have some tougher travel relatively speaking.

 

[rmf05]

I’ve been hearing IUP and Cal to D-1 for almost 30 years. If it didn’t happen already, I don’t see how they could justify moving up in light of the state system’s glaring financial issues.

For awhile when Atwater was their President, IUP considered going 1aa. When they studied it, it was very clear that they couldn't do it. IUP has never fielded a full compliment of D2 schollies. No PSAC school has. In fact, they aren't allowed to. There is a much greater chance of those schools dissolving altogether or going D3.

 

[bwh05]

For awhile when Atwater was their President, IUP considered going 1aa. When they studied it, it was very clear that they couldn't do it. IUP has never fielded a full compliment of D2 schollies. No PSAC school has. In fact, they aren't allowed to. There is a much greater chance of those schools dissolving altogether or going D3.

I think increased it scholarship number a few years ago so they are pretty close to the full 36 now. I want to say they went from 22 to 30?

I do agree that there's no way they move up levels at this point, and it's more likely they move down than up with the loss of enrollment and financial issues.

 

[jtownknowitall]

For awhile when Atwater was their President, IUP considered going 1aa. When they studied it, it was very clear that they couldn't do it. IUP has never fielded a full compliment of D2 schollies. No PSAC school has. In fact, they aren't allowed to. There is a much greater chance of those schools dissolving altogether or going D3.

IUP lost to both Gannon and Seton Hill this year. In football!

The PSAC isn't going anywhere though. They may add a few schools as I'm not so sure the Mountain East Athletic Conference is very sturdy.

 

[HailToPitt725]

I have a buddy who gradated from Mercyhurst and apparently they’ve looked at moving up to D1 with the NEC being a potential landing spot. They’re already D1 in hockey and have a loyal alum base. I think they’d be a good fit and it’d give them an extra football member (eventually).

Bumping this thread because it appears Mercyhurst is moving forward with a jump to D1:

 

[Upg bobcat]

For awhile when Atwater was their President, IUP considered going 1aa. When they studied it, it was very clear that they couldn't do it. IUP has never fielded a full compliment of D2 schollies. No PSAC school has. In fact, they aren't allowed to. There is a much greater chance of those schools dissolving altogether or going D3.

When I was young, I don't think there was a single 1-AA team in western PA. Closest one was Youngstown State (who was very good at the time). Now there are a bunch -- Duquesne, RMU, St. Francis, and now Mercyhurst. I think IUP could probably find a fit within I-AA. Besides the now local 1-AA teams, there are other schools within a bus ride away with Patriot League, other NEC members, etc. Schollies is obviously an issue, but IUP has a pretty big enrollment I believe and maybe they can find some alums to fund it.

 

[pafootballguy]

When I was young, I don't think there was a single 1-AA team in western PA. Closest one was Youngstown State (who was very good at the time). Now there are a bunch -- Duquesne, RMU, St. Francis, and now Mercyhurst. I think IUP could probably find a fit within I-AA. Besides the now local 1-AA teams, there are other schools within a bus ride away with Patriot League, other NEC members, etc. Schollies is obviously an issue, but IUP has a pretty big enrollment I believe and maybe they can find some alums to fund it.

IUP or any other D2 program moving up would not have to fund the full 63 scholarships immediately. They were terrible, but SFU only funded 35 scholarships for a long time and only recently started giving more than 55. It would be fun to see IUP and Slippery Rock make that jump.

 

[pittdan77]

I think IUP could probably find a fit within I-AA. Besides the now local 1-AA teams, there are other schools within a bus ride away with Patriot League, other NEC members, etc. Schollies is obviously an issue, but IUP has a pretty big enrollment I believe and maybe they can find some alums to fund it.

IUP can't even fill their dorms anymore because enrollment has tanked so badly.

 

[Upg bobcat]

IUP can't even fill their dorms anymore because enrollment has tanked so badly.

I just looked it up ... IUP's enrollment is still about four times bigger that SFU, more than twice the enrollment of Mercyhurst, three times the enrollment of RMU, etc.

 

[pittdan77]

I just looked it up ... IUP's enrollment is still about four times bigger that SFU, more than twice the enrollment of Mercyhurst, three times the enrollment of RMU, etc.

Pitt's enrollment is almost three times less than the University of Phoenix.

 

[NTOP]

I just looked it up ... IUP's enrollment is still about four times bigger that SFU, more than twice the enrollment of Mercyhurst, three times the enrollment of RMU, etc.

SFU isn't a public school, nor is Mercyhurst or Gannon. Tough to spend a lot of cash.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Pitt's enrollment is almost three times less than the University of Phoenix.

Well Phoenix is a much larger city than Pittsburgh.

 

[Panther Holla]

Duquesne to the ACC when Pitt joins Big Ten.

 

[NTOP]

Well Phoenix is a much larger city than Pittsburgh.

Is it still largely a "virtual" school??

 

[pittdan77]

Well Phoenix is a much larger city than Pittsburgh.

Well, yeah. I'm being funny but I guess the point is that I don't think enrollment matters that much. There's a lot more to it.

 

[Upg bobcat]

Well, yeah. I'm being funny but I guess the point is that I don't think enrollment matters that much. There's a lot more to it.

If the enrollment numbers of PSU and Pitt were reversed, I am willing to bet Pitt would have higher average attendance than PSU, even with Pitt being in a major metro area with infinitely more entertainment options every Saturday competing with the football program to get butts in the seats.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Bumping this thread because it appears Mercyhurst is moving forward with a jump to D1:

View embedded media

This awesome if true. I have said for years that Erie should have a D1 team and that Erie is probably thr largest market in the country without one. I'd love to see Pitt basketball play a "road game" at Erie Insurance Arena vs Mercyhurst. Would be great for NET and the place would be 75% Pitt fans.

 

[pittdan77]

If the enrollment numbers of PSU and Pitt were reversed, I am willing to bet Pitt would have higher average attendance than PSU, even with Pitt being in a major metro area with infinitely more entertainment options every Saturday competing with the football program to get butts in the seats.

Oh yeah. My comment was in reference to school enrollment versus participation in D1 versus D2.

 

[pittdan77]

This awesome if true. I have said for years that Erie should have a D1 team and that Erie is probably thr largest market in the country without one. I'd love to see Pitt basketball play a "road game" at Erie Insurance Arena vs Mercyhurst. Would be great for NET and the place would be 75% Pitt fans.

I don't think a team that was sub-500 in D2 is going to do a lot for Pitt's NET.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

that would make a lot of sense since Erie has to be one of the largest markets without D1 sports.

Fun fact, Erie is not even the largest market in Pennsylvania without D1 sports.

Or even in the top five.

I have a feeling that you think that Erie is a lot bigger than what it actually is.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Fun fact, Erie is not even the largest market in Pennsylvania without D1 sports.

Or even in the top five.

I have a feeling that you think that Erie is a lot bigger than what it actually is.

Huh? Its the 4th largest city in Pennsylvania behind Allentown, which has Lehigh in the town right next to it. I consider Lehigh to be in the "Allentown market." Can you find any cities larger than Erie without a D1 team in its market?

 

[Upg bobcat]

Huh? Its the 4th largest city in Pennsylvania behind Allentown, which has Lehigh in the town right next to it. I consider Lehigh to be in the "Allentown market." Can you find any cities larger than Erie without a D1 team in its market?

And then right on the other side of Lehigh is Lafayette.