OT: Of course Arietta is losing his control in THIS game.....

[pitt-girl]

Who knows how this game will end up but sheesh. Looked like the Cy Young winner against us.

(Edit: Ok maybe I spoke too soon. I just dislike that guy so much and I honestly believe he is being juiced by something.)

 

[Pittx9]

The guy is like a whiny little 4 year old girl. IMO the Cardinals are in Patriots/Penn State territory as far as teams I would never root for no matter what. But it might be worth it to see Arrieta lose and complain about something.

 

[PantherO]

I have no proof, but how does one go from being cut as a 5th Starter to having the best 2nd half in major league history?

 

[Pittx9]

I have no proof, but how does one go from being cut as a 5th Starter to having the best 2nd half in major league history?

Probably by training with Roger Clemens. And by training I mean, using that fountain of youth needle. Could be completely wrong, but I'll be honest, never considered Arrieta much of a top-end pitcher until mid-2015 season. Odd.

 

[pitt-girl]

Probably by training with Roger Clemens. And by training I mean, using that fountain of youth needle. Could be completely wrong, but I'll be honest, never considered Arrieta much of a top-end pitcher until mid-2015 season. Odd.

If the Cubs advance, just look at him on the mound. The guy isn't necessarily "cut", but as close as I've ever seen in that position. Look at him and then look at all the other pitchers that get on the mound that day. He either has a cutting edge training/nutrition program or...... Even last night the announcers were commenting on the amazing difference in his appearance since his days at TCU.

 

[Pittx9]

He either has a cutting edge training/nutrition program

My guess would be no on that lol. Too much of an undisciplined punk to commit himself to something like that.

 

[NTOP]

My guess would be no on that lol. Too much of an undisciplined punk to commit himself to something like that.

If they trade him to the Giants, he can use Bonds' old hats.

 

[Pittx9]

If they trade him to the Giants, he can use Bonds' old hats.

Lol, in 5 years when his head turns into a melon.

 

[sherepower]

I said that last week after he beat the Pirates. Dude is using hgh

 

[Pittx9]

I said that last week after he beat the Pirates. Dude is using hgh

I hate the One Game Playoff, I think fans have the right to complain and not bitch about it. I like the strict punishments for steroids use, but if it ends up being true, I think if fans use that as an excuse why Bucs lost would just be whining. I don't care who pitched for the Cubs, Cole didn't pitch well right out of the gate. Totally killed momentum.

 

[pitt-girl]

I said that last week after he beat the Pirates. Dude is using hgh

When does the MLB test for any of these banned substances during the season? Is it weekly/biweekly/monthly, etc.

 

[Pittx9]

Arrieta uses Coghlan's pee for drug tests.

 

[sherepower]

When using hgh. Players are always one step ahead of the testing. Meaning they are using a form that does not come up as positive or getting tipped off by someone who is conducting the test.

Believe me. I am the last person who would accuse someone using. However, looking at how he is now built. Plus, his results over the last year. Definitely seems to me a red flag

 

[Pittx9]

When using hgh. Players are always one step ahead of the testing. Meaning they are using a form that does not come up as positive or getting tipped off by someone who is conducting the test.

Believe me. I am the last person who would accuse someone using. However, looking at how he is now built. Plus, his results over the last year. Definitely seems to me a red flag

I'm with you on most points. I would never accuse someone of using unless it's obvious. Like Roger Clemens, I hated him so bad at the time because everyone was worried about Barry Bonds, when it was way more obvious the first time Clemens took the mound after coming back that he was all juiced up. IMHO, Barry being black they made him the posterboy. Clemens basically got a free pass until he was finally found guilty but anyone who saw him in Houston, I don't know how you couldn't tell. People venomously disagreed with me, but I really thought it was that obvious. Around 40 years old and pitching harder than ever. Yeah, that just happens naturally.

 

[PantherO]

I was looking at Google images trying to compare him now to when he was with the orioles. Hard to tell with that beard, but that may be why he wears it.

Anyway, just think if it comes out in a couple years that he was using. Will the Pirates and the fans be compensated?? Of course not. Or, will MLB sweep it under the rug? Most likely.

I think all MLB players need tested before the play offs. But the PA will never allow that. But that in itself is a red flag.

 

[Pittx9]

But the PA will never allow that.

One of the biggest problems in pro sports. Take Tom Brady for example. Another one of the biggest crybabies in sports. Instead of taking his punishment like a man, the Player's Union takes the appeal to Supreme Court! Supreme Court should never be involved in something that ONLY has to do with sports.
If anyone was wronged by Goodell abusing his power, it was Big Ben. He was never found guilty of anything! He took his punishment like a man though, because while he did nothing illegal, he realized he used poor judgement. I think he is now a better man because of it.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Arrieta Schmerrieta. After watching guys like Hosmer, Rasmus, Correa, Bryant, Rizzo, Cespedes, Granderson all have big hits and offensive games yesterday your Buctober underscores that the Pirates can't spell the word clutch if you spotted them a C-U-T-C-H!!!

 

[Pittx9]

Arrieta Schmerrieta. After watching guys like Hosmer, Rasmus, Correa, Bryant, Rizzo, Cespedes, Granderson all have big hits and offensive games yesterday your Buctober underscores that the Pirates can't spell the word clutch if you spotted them a C-U-T-C-H!!!

Ironic McCutchen has been one of our least clutch performers come October the past few years. Alvarez 2 years ago when we made NLDS was one of the few that provided any offense consistently.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

McCutchen has batted 321/441/357 in the postseason and 400/538/400 in Wild Card games for his career.

Rob Rossi got ridiculed pretty badly yesterday (yet again) by the national guys for his awful hackjob suggesting McCutchen's an issue in the postseason.

 

[Pittx9]

McCutchen has batted 321/441/357 in the postseason and 400/538/400 in Wild Card games for his career.

Rob Rossi got ridiculed pretty badly yesterday (yet again) by the national guys for his awful hackjob suggesting McCutchen's an issue in the postseason.

I wouldn't say he's an issue, just has not driven in runs in the postseason. Logically though, that could just simply come from other guys not being on base. So while he hasn't done a lot to lead the Bucs to a win, you're right that it is not his fault.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

I wouldn't say he's an issue, just has not driven in runs in the postseason. Logically though, that could just simply come from other guys not being on base. So while he hasn't done a lot to lead the Bucs to a win, you're right that it is not his fault.

As Bill Baer astutely pointed out when it was early in the playoffs and runs were mostly scarce -- it's almost like hitters are pre-disposed to face the best-of-the-best pitchers on the best-of-the-best teams.

(Also I'd agree that RBIs are entirely predicated on baserunners in front of you, so it's really not his fault. He's individually producing at a high level, which is all that matters)

 

[Pittx9]

As Bill Baer astutely pointed out when it was early in the playoffs and runs were mostly scarce -- it's almost like hitters are pre-disposed to face the best-of-the-best pitchers on the best-of-the-best teams.

To veer off topic slightly, as I've said I think the one game Wild Card round is absurd. I heard someone talking the other day about something I was unaware of that Theo Epstein proposed. What he said was Epstein proposed a best of 3 series (which is what I think is the best possible scenario), but the first day would be a day/night doubleheader at the home team's venue. What do you or others think about that possible scenario?

 

[Pittbaseball11]

To veer off topic slightly, as I've said I think the one game Wild Card round is absurd. I heard someone talking the other day about something I was unaware of that Theo Epstein proposed. What he said was Epstein proposed a best of 3 series (which is what I think is the best possible scenario), but the first day would be a day/night doubleheader at the home team's venue. What do you or others think about that possible scenario?

I would be fine with it. Ultimately, I side with the Fangraphs article below. Baseball is such a weird, fluky, unpredictable game that I don't think there is any way to structure it so that the best team wins with any regularity. It's always going to be highly dependent on luck and hot streaks -- things that can persist for months, halves of seasons, or full seasons.

I don't think there's really any way to "fix" baseball, because the playoff concept in baseball doesn't really allow it.

The Delicious Unfairness of the Wild Card

 

[Pittx9]

I would be fine with it. Ultimately, I side with the Fangraphs article below. Baseball is such a weird, fluky, unpredictable game that I don't think there is any way to structure it so that the best team wins with any regularity. It's always going to be highly dependent on luck and hot streaks -- things that can persist for months, halves of seasons, or full seasons.

I don't think there's really any way to "fix" baseball, because the playoff concept in baseball doesn't really allow it.

The Delicious Unfairness of the Wild Card

Agreed. I just think if the ALCS/NLCS and World Series are best of 7, the ALDS/NLDS are best of 5, it would make a lot of sense IMO to make the Wild Card best of 3. Arrieta is no doubt way out of the league that even Gerrit Cole is even in. But, I think if Happ and Liriano pitch Games 2 and 3, I find it hard to believe the Cubs could have beat them.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Agreed. I just think if the ALCS/NLCS and World Series are best of 7, the ALDS/NLDS are best of 5, it would make a lot of sense IMO to make the Wild Card best of 3. Arrieta is no doubt way out of the league that even Gerrit Cole is even in. But, I think if Happ and Liriano pitch Games 2 and 3, I find it hard to believe the Cubs could have beat them.

I agree, although then you get into how even the best laid plans in baseball can still mean nothing. Who's to say something fluky doesn't happen in one of those games to cost the Pirates?

Objectively, the Pirates hit Arrieta harder than anybody hit him all year in the Wild Card game -- those balls were just almost all hit directly at fielders. Arrieta was good, but if the Pirates' hard-hit balls go for hits anywhere close to the normal amount, he probably gets pulled shortly after Marte knocks in 1 or 2 runs with the bases loaded.

Similar to them not being able to find any sort of evidence of "clutch" being repeatable or controllable (in the sense that players/teams can continuously raise their performance above their true abilities), they haven't been able to find pitchers who can dictate whether or not hard-hit balls find fielders' gloves. Pitchers can limit hard contact, but once hard contact is made it's mostly luck.

 

[Pittx9]

Who's to say something fluky doesn't happen in one of those games to cost the Pirates?

Very possible. But for that to happen in 3 games, you ultimately deserve to lose. Every game in the regular season is part of a 2, 3, 4 game series. To make a playoff game one and done is just the dumbest thing ever IMO.

 

[PittPoker]

Again, losing Kang just ruined our offense. We win the division if we got Cespedes for the stretch run - reminds me of a younger better Marlon Byrd. We needed a bat like that - our guys are way too inconsistent, too streaky and they aren't clutch. At the time Polanco was really struggling - Cespedes would have been the difference maker, a bat like that - wow.

 

[Pittx9]

Again, losing Kang just ruined our offense. We win the division if we got Cespedes for the stretch run - reminds me of a younger better Marlon Byrd. We needed a bat like that - our guys are way too inconsistent, too streaky and they aren't clutch. At the time Polanco was really struggling - Cespedes would have been the difference maker, a bat like that - wow.

Wow! I would have loved that! But was there any real talk of the Pirates getting him. I can't see them emptying the farm system to bring him here.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Again, losing Kang just ruined our offense. We win the division if we got Cespedes for the stretch run - reminds me of a younger better Marlon Byrd. We needed a bat like that - our guys are way too inconsistent, too streaky and they aren't clutch. At the time Polanco was really struggling - Cespedes would have been the difference maker, a bat like that - wow.

As good as Cespedes was, be careful to overstate his contributions to the Mets too much. The media hyped him up because creating storylines and narratives is what they do, but there was a lot more that went on than just Cespedes.

They got d'Arnaud back and healthy around that same time, Conforto got called up and played regularly, then they had the random hot streaks from Wilmer Flores and Curtis Granderson. All of those guys raked, along with Cespedes. He didn't turn them around by himself.

Also don't forget he wasn't really even that hot of a commodity. The Mets initially traded for Carlos Gomez, the perceived best OF available, but their owner vetoed the deal due to the dollars he would be owed over the years. Hindsight is a killer in baseball, there's a lot of 2nd guessing and confirmation bias, and that's just not constructive in such a streaky sport.

It's always important to remember that trade deadline moves are a crapshoot, with very little predictability and -- honestly -- very little expected value added to a team's actual production. One player is just too small of a contributor to a team's wins and losses. And, let's not forget that Gregory Polanco was unconsciously hot himself for most of the 2nd half. I'm not sure the upgrade would have been THAT stark.

It's similar to Byrd with the Pirates. He was fine, but his production was also a total aberration -- a product of a fluky career year he's never come close to matching -- and in addition to the usual suspects, Jose Tabata somehow managed to be extremely good for 2 months as well alongside him (remember, Marte missed a lot of time). One guy never, ever, ever, ever, ever explains one team's successes/failures on his own. Just look at Bryce Harper and Mike Trout's teams this year.

 

[PittPoker]

Wow! I would have loved that! But was there any real talk of the Pirates getting him. I can't see them emptying the farm system to bring him here.

Believe it or not, there were some reports that Cespedes would be a good and needed addition but nothing that claimed the Pirates were seriously interested. Again just my opinion but I think our offense needed a guy like that, kinda like we needed Byrd in 2013. Polanco came on for a month, 6 weeks but struggled mightily down the stretch. But then again, almost the whole team struggled offensively the last month of the season once Kang went down.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

As Bill Baer astutely pointed out when it was early in the playoffs and runs were mostly scarce -- it's almost like hitters are pre-disposed to face the best-of-the-best pitchers on the best-of-the-best teams.

(Also I'd agree that RBIs are entirely predicated on baserunners in front of you, so it's really not his fault. He's individually producing at a high level, which is all that matters)

No HR's, no RBI's, no XBase hits.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

No HR's, no RBI's, no XBase hits.

Not making outs. #1 most important aspect when it comes to run scoring/creating. It's why bunts are dying and teams are accepting higher error totals for the sake of converting more balls in play into outs.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Not making outs. #1 most important aspect when it comes to run scoring/creating. It's why bunts are dying and teams are accepting higher error totals for the sake of converting more balls in play into outs.

You need your star to deliver some big hits. You excusing McCutcheon for his post season failures to do this is the same people who absolve Sid Crosby and Geno Malkin for their lack of post season production. You both are wrong.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

You need your star to deliver some big hits. You excusing McCutcheon for his post season failures to do this is the same people who absolve Sid Crosby and Geno Malkin for their lack of post season production. You both are wrong.

He's had a grand total of 10 ABs during Wild Card games. This narrative is beyond retarded. He's hitting 400/538/400 in Wild Card games. He's more than doing his part.

Oh wait....."McCutcheon". Nevermind. Not worth dealing with the Madden/Rossi line of reasoning from casual observers.

 

[deepelemblues]

Arrieta's last 2-3 innings of the WC game he was losing his stuff and the Pirates couldn't convert. That's where they really missed Kang, he was almost a lock to lay down at least a single in those situations.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

He's had a grand total of 10 ABs during Wild Card games. This narrative is beyond retarded. He's hitting 400/538/400 in Wild Card games. He's more than doing his part.

Oh wait....."McCutcheon". Nevermind. Not worth dealing with the Madden/Rossi line of reasoning from casual observers.

Yeah and I am not sure what you are talking about.

McCutcheon was 1-4 this wild card game. 1 single. That is .250
McCutcheon was 0-3 last year, with 3 LOB. Nada. That is .000
McCutcheon was 2-3 in 2013 against the Reds, that is .667, but again, it was Martin and Byrd with the big hits.

Against the Cards in 2013 McCutcheon was 5 for 19, no RBI's, that is .278 So not sure what number you are quoting.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

He's had a grand total of 10 ABs during Wild Card games. This narrative is beyond retarded. He's hitting 400/538/400 in Wild Card games. He's more than doing his part.

Oh wait....."McCutcheon". Nevermind. Not worth dealing with the Madden/Rossi line of reasoning from casual observers.

Yeah and I am not sure what you are talking about.

McCutcheon was 1-4 this wild card game. 1 single. That is .250
McCutcheon was 0-3 last year, with 3 LOB. Nada. That is .000
McCutcheon was 2-3 in 2013 against the Reds, that is .667, but again, it was Martin and Byrd with the big hits.

Against the Cards in 2013 McCutcheon was 5 for 19, no RBI's, that is .278 So not sure what number you are quoting.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Arrieta's last 2-3 innings of the WC game he was losing his stuff and the Pirates couldn't convert. That's where they really missed Kang, he was almost a lock to lay down at least a single in those situations.

There was also some bad luck. Marte scorched that ball.

 

[deepelemblues]

There was also some bad luck. Marte scorched that ball.

that too.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Yeah and I am not sure what you are talking about.

McCutcheon was 1-4 this wild card game. 1 single. That is .250
McCutcheon was 0-3 last year, with 3 LOB. Nada. That is .000
McCutcheon was 2-3 in 2013 against the Reds, that is .667, but again, it was Martin and Byrd with the big hits.

Against the Cards in 2013 McCutcheon was 5 for 19, no RBI's, that is .278 So not sure what number you are quoting.

I'm quoting his Wild Card numbers because that is the only context in which he has accumulated none of the counting stats you mentioned. In a paltry 28 postseason AB's total he has a 321/441/357 triple slash line. Also it was 2-4 this year in the Wild Card game for him.

If clutch were a thing there would be a better argument. If there was any evidence whatsoever that players can influence when they get hits or HRs, there would be an argument. But at this point it's just small sample noise and a lack of opportunity. He's producing at a high level. His lack of accumulation of counting stats within a small sample is meaningless.

Neil Walker has RBI's and is a stellar 2-31 in the playoffs.

People always want to ascribe these intangible qualities to players and the playoffs rather than acknowledging that it's random and fluky and there's no evidence to support any of these claims or referendums.