OT: Petersen Sports Complex

[HailToPitt725]

Does anyone know what happened to the planned Track and Field complex they were supposed to build on the former Trees Field site to go along with the rest of the Petersen Sports Complex? Kinda weird that they put up the Sports Dome when Pitt still needs a track and field facility that could've been used for band practices as well. Not to mention, why put it up in the middle of a master plan case study by Populous when they could've done something else with the land? Just curious.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

No clue. Without that land now, where would it go?

 

[HailToPitt725]

No clue. Without that land now, where would it go?

That's what I was wondering. That was the best place for it I thought, a natural fit. Maybe OC Lot? Not a whole lot of room in the upper campus sports section where they'd most likely put it.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Don't quote me on this but I was told about a year ago by someone from the AD that a track and field facility is still in their plans but the Trees Field site was ultimately deemed unsuitable for a track and field because it is too windy up there and would therefore nullify a lot of the results from a record and qualifying standpoint.

At least that's what I was told by someone who would likely know.

As I told the person at the time, I think Pitt should work out something with the city and turn the Schenley Oval into a really nice facility that could be operated by Pitt but used by everyone. It could become the annual host of the WPIAL's and other events. That is such a nice setting that I wouldn't be surprised if even the ACC held events there.

The key is Pitt would have to operate it. That would allow it to carve out time for its teams to use it – Including the marching band. However, if they could work that out, what a venue that would be for everyone!

 

[infinitehighway42]

Don't quote me on this but I was told about a year ago by someone from the AD that a track and field facility is still in their plans but the Trees Field site was ultimately deemed unsuitable for a track and field because it is too windy up there and would therefore nullify a lot of the results from a record and qualifying standpoint.

At least that's what I was told by someone who would likely know.

As I told the person at the time, I think Pitt should work out something with the city and turn the Schenley Oval into a really nice facility that could be operated by Pitt but used by everyone. It could become the annual host of the WPIAL's and other events. That is such a nice setting that I wouldn't be surprised if even the ACC held events there.

The key is Pitt would have to operate it. That would allow it to carve out time for its teams to use it – Including the marching band. However, if they could work that out, what a venue that would be for everyone!

There's zero chance the marching band would use that unless you built them an entire facility there. The band room is currently in the basement of Trees Hall and they're set to use the new sports bubble as their practice field, which will be the first time since Pitt Stadium was torn down that they will have a full size (and accurately marked) field to use on campus.

 

[pittdan77]

I thought the new football stadium that hangs out over the street would have a track, too?

 

[bwh05]

Does anyone know what happened to the planned Track and Field complex they were supposed to build on the former Trees Field site to go along with the rest of the Petersen Sports Complex? Kinda weird that they put up the Sports Dome when Pitt still needs a track and field facility that could've been used for band practices as well. Not to mention, why put it up in the middle of a master plan case study by Populous when they could've done something else with the land? Just curious.

Currently plans for an indoor track are in the works, still working out exactly where it'll be tho.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Drop T&F and add lacrosse. Seems like a no-brainer.

We already have a facility (the soccer field). Lacrosse is fastest growing NCAA sport and there is no pro team here meaning Pitt can develop a small niche fanbase.

The ACC is the best lacrosse league and its a TV sport, something T&F isnt. With the new ACCN, 5-6 Pitt lacrosse games would be televised.

 

[HailtoPitt]

As I told the person at the time, I think Pitt should work out something with the city and turn the Schenley Oval into a really nice facility that could be operated by Pitt but used by everyone.

Good luck with that.

Pitt should force the issue if the City wants the lame BRT going through Oakland. But they won't.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

There's zero chance the marching band would use that unless you built them an entire facility there. The band room is currently in the basement of Trees Hall and they're set to use the new sports bubble as their practice field, which will be the first time since Pitt Stadium was torn down that they will have a full size (and accurately marked) field to use on campus.

Well, great! I guess that just leaves us to solve the track and field issue then?

 

[HailToPitt725]

Don't quote me on this but I was told about a year ago by someone from the AD that a track and field facility is still in their plans but the Trees Field site was ultimately deemed unsuitable for a track and field because it is too windy up there and would therefore nullify a lot of the results from a record and qualifying standpoint.

At least that's what I was told by someone who would likely know.

As I told the person at the time, I think Pitt should work out something with the city and turn the Schenley Oval into a really nice facility that could be operated by Pitt but used by everyone. It could become the annual host of the WPIAL's and other events. That is such a nice setting that I wouldn't be surprised if even the ACC held events there.

The key is Pitt would have to operate it. That would allow it to carve out time for its teams to use it – Including the marching band. However, if they could work that out, what a venue that would be for everyone!

That is a very good idea and would definitely work. What would be ideal is Pitt acquiring that entire sportsplex to build athletic facilities in the future. It's unlikely, but there's little to no room left on upper campus and would really give us some room to grow. Not thinking Stadium, more like facilities, practice fields, etc.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Drop T&F and add lacrosse. Seems like a no-brainer.

We already have a facility (the soccer field). Lacrosse is fastest growing NCAA sport and there is no pro team here meaning Pitt can develop a small niche fanbase.

The ACC is the best lacrosse league and its a TV sport, something T&F isnt. With the new ACCN, 5-6 Pitt lacrosse games would be televised.

Definitely think we should get a lacrosse team, but not at the expense of T&F. Lots of history there and there's really no need to have to cut one to add the other. Both could operate at the same time.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Don't quote me on this but I was told about a year ago by someone from the AD that a track and field facility is still in their plans but the Trees Field site was ultimately deemed unsuitable for a track and field because it is too windy up there and would therefore nullify a lot of the results from a record and qualifying standpoint.

At least that's what I was told by someone who would likely know.

As I told the person at the time, I think Pitt should work out something with the city and turn the Schenley Oval into a really nice facility that could be operated by Pitt but used by everyone. It could become the annual host of the WPIAL's and other events. That is such a nice setting that I wouldn't be surprised if even the ACC held events there.

The key is Pitt would have to operate it. That would allow it to carve out time for its teams to use it – Including the marching band. However, if they could work that out, what a venue that would be for everyone!

The wind issue killed the track from being built in its original proposed location on the Robinson Court site (where the current baseball/soccer complex is).

The Schenectady Oval suffers from similar political hurdles that did the Maz softball field proposal. We'll see if those can be overcome, but that's an obvious place to look.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Drop T&F and add lacrosse. Seems like a no-brainer.

We already have a facility (the soccer field). Lacrosse is fastest growing NCAA sport and there is no pro team here meaning Pitt can develop a small niche fanbase.

The ACC is the best lacrosse league and its a TV sport, something T&F isnt. With the new ACCN, 5-6 Pitt lacrosse games would be televised.

Definitely think we should get a lacrosse team, but not at the expense of T&F. Lots of history there and there's really no need to have to cut one to add the other. Both could operate at the same time.

We're not doing both. If you came in as a consultant, what is the more cost-effective program? Lacrosse, a growing sport with no team in the area that has a facility and the potential to be televised on ACCN? Or T&F, a program without a facility, can never be on TV and literally has 0 fans?

In fact, Populous may come to this conclusion.

 

[HailToPitt725]

We're not doing both. If you came in as a consultant, what is the more cost-effective program? Lacrosse, a growing sport with no team in the area that has a facility and the potential to be televised on ACCN? Or T&F, a program without a facility, can never be on TV and literally has 0 fans?

In fact, Populous may come to this conclusion.

They may suggest that. If you had to choose one or the other I'd choose lacrosse but I don't think you have to do that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the ACC schools who have lacrosse also have track and field. Track and field has a low enough budget that you could add lacrosse while maintaining it.

Do you know of any schools who have dropped track and field recently? If so, was it to add another sport? Curious to see.

 

[ThePanthers]

They may suggest that. If you had to choose one or the other I'd choose lacrosse but I don't think you have to do that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the ACC schools who have lacrosse also have track and field. Track and field has a low enough budget that you could add lacrosse while maintaining it.

Do you know of any schools who have dropped track and field recently? If so, was it to add another sport? Curious to see.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you also have to add the same number of scholarships for females as well for title IX? So if you add lacrosse, you have to add field hockey or something.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you also have to add the same number of scholarships for females as well for title IX? So if you add lacrosse, you have to add field hockey or something.

Yeah I think you're right. The ACC has women's lacrosse too so we'd probably add that.

 

[Jpripper88]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you also have to add the same number of scholarships for females as well for title IX? So if you add lacrosse, you have to add field hockey or something.

Correct. Men's lacrosse and T&F have the same number of scholarships, so there wouldn't necessarily be a difference on the men's side, but women's T&F is allocated 18 scholarships, so you would probably have to add 2 other sports, unless they made crew a scholarship sport for the ladies.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

all that adding seems pricey for us

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Does anyone know what happened to the planned Track and Field complex they were supposed to build on the former Trees Field site to go along with the rest of the Petersen Sports Complex? Kinda[/COLOR] weird that they put up the Sports Dome when Pitt still needs a track and field facility that could've been used for band practices as well. Not to mention, why put it up in the middle of a master plan case study by Populous when they could've done something else with the land? Just curious.

As the AD! Oh geez I forgot we don't have an AD and haven't for a while.
The temp guy filling in won't know he'll be busy mailing out football tickets if one isn't on board by that time. Licking and sticking all those stamps is a major effort!

Good suggestion! Are you interested in an AD job? Send your resume to the 17 person committee I'm sure the job will still be open. Gallagher has post traumatic hiring syndrome!

 

[ThePanthers]

all that adding seems pricey for us

It's pricey for anyone.

 

[CrazyPaco]

They may suggest that. If you had to choose one or the other I'd choose lacrosse but I don't think you have to do that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the ACC schools who have lacrosse also have track and field. Track and field has a low enough budget that you could add lacrosse while maintaining it.

Do you know of any schools who have dropped track and field recently? If so, was it to add another sport? Curious to see.

WVU dropped men's track...actually men's track (like wrestling and others before it) has been axed at a lot of places due to Title IX.

 

[CrazyPaco]

all that adding seems pricey for us

What does adding lax get the athletic department? That's the question everyone needs to ask.

Because of Title IX, you have to add both men's and women's lax. That 24.6 scholarships, and it doesn't help the Title IX ratio at all (12.6 for men, 12 for women). That's an annual million dollar expense right there.Then you have, I think 4 paid men's and women's coaches each: 8 total. Consider not just compensation, but the benefits packages. That's a million a year in total compensation right there, at least, probably more. Then you need athletic trainers, full time administrative staff, academic staff, travel budgets, recruiting budgets, facility budgets,...

But the real problem is where do these two teams practice and play games? Where do you shoehorn them in to lift weights and get taped up? Where do you store their equipment and put their locker rooms? Soccer has both a fall and spring season, so its not like you only have both of those teams using the Petersen Sports Complex in the fall.

Will lax generate a profit at Pitt or even cover it's expenses? Almost certainly no.

One of the things Pitt has going for it, because it is at the bottom of the P5 in revenues and gifts, is that it minimizes expenses by having a small athletics program with only 19 varsity sports, 6 of which are men's and women's XC, indoor and outdoor T&F. IMO, Pitt shouldn't consider adding sports unless it has to (Title IX) or there is a clear neutral or gain financially, or someone drops big money to fully endow it ahead of time (like PSU hockey). Pitt also has to be weary of facility overcrowding, which is already a problem up on the hill.

 

[HailtoPitt]

It would be very, very difficult for Pitt to excel at lacrosse.

 

[California Panther]

It would be very, very difficult for Pitt to excel at lacrosse.

and that is the last thing we need, another Pitt team that can't compete very well and hardly wins many games in the ACC like men's soccer, women's soccer, tennis, baseball. Ssssshhhh-not mentioning basketball this year!

 

[ThePanthers]

But smf says it's easy.

 

[bwh05]

We aren't adding any sports in the near future, Let alone a men's sport with huge numbers

 

[Black_Man_Panther]

The wind issue killed the track from being built in its original proposed location on the Robinson Court site (where the current baseball/soccer complex is).

The Schenectady Oval suffers from similar political hurdles that did the Maz softball field proposal. We'll see if those can be overcome, but that's an obvious place to look.

Now you guys are mouth pieces for this pathetic administration whose sole goal is to not spend any money on anything sports related? And they are really screwed now since there is no way in hell they get a dime from the state for any non-academic capital expenditures.

There will never be a track. They have already determined that - not enough $ funding to be raised from past track alumni. There will never be any "sports complex" either. Hell, they will be lucky to keep the Field House from falling off the edge of hillside in the decades to come.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Now you guys are mouth pieces for this pathetic administration whose sole goal is to not spend any money on anything sports related? And they are really screwed now since there is no way in hell they get a dime from the state for any non-academic capital expenditures.

There will never be a track. They have already determined that - not enough $ funding to be raised from past track alumni. There will never be any "sports complex" either. Hell, they will be lucky to keep the Field House from falling off the edge of hillside in the decades to come.

You can't spend money that you don't have on unnecessary things. If you don't like that reality, you're a fan of the wrong university.

Pitt needs a track. Indoor and Outdoor. And a tennis facility. They'll likely look to trying to solve that by upgrading existing facilities in Schenley if they can get over the political hurdles and public restrictions.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Blackman, I don't think that's totally the case anymore. They spent 13m on the dome.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Build an eight court tennis facility with some limited seating on a few courts and they could host an ATP Challenger series event. A tennis facility at the top the hill would also see a lot more student use than most other sports facilities. It would be easier to shoehorn in somewhere, too.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Build an eight court tennis facility with some limited seating on a few courts and they could host an ATP Challenger series event. A tennis facility at the top the hill would also see a lot more student use than most other sports facilities. It would be easier to shoehorn in somewhere, too.

Not sure where you could shoehorn a tennis complex in on cardiac hill at this point, unless you wanted to take out the Pete lawn, and I don't think that is a good idea.

 

[upj87]

It would be very, very difficult for Pitt to excel at lacrosse.

excel, not excel, who would care? Pretty much the same line of thinking of anything not football or basketball...

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Lacrosse? Ice Hockey? Adding men's non-revenue sports costs $$ and requires consideration of Title IX constraints--got to add at least one women's sport for every men's sport you add. Keep dreaming.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Lacrosse is a TV sport and the fastest growing NCAA sport. No, Pitt lacrosse isnt going to make money or develop a rabid fan following but it wont lose as much money as non-TV sports, T&F, tennis, and gymnastics.

We have a network coming and its better for Pitt vs Duke lacrosse to be on TV in April than nothing.

To accomplish this, T&F would have to go. There is no point in keeping a non-TV, non-fan sport like T&F if you dont have a facility. We already have a lacrosse facility. The spring soccer season is only 5 exhibition games. You paint lacrosse lines on the field and there you go. Pitt wouldn't be the only school in the country to use a soccer field as a lacrosse field. Plus, practice times could be booked in the IM Bubble.

As fas getting the most bang for its buck, lacrosse would fall only after football, mens basketball, and wrestling in terms of cost-benefit. You add womens lacrosse and womens crew to account for Title IX.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Again, Pitt would be spending money on a sport where it would not be successful and not generate revenue. If they get rid of T&F, it shouldn't be to start a Lacrosse program. Reduce the athletic department expenses unless donors step up for individual sports.

 

[Jpripper88]

Lacrosse is a TV sport and the fastest growing NCAA sport. No, Pitt lacrosse isnt going to make money or develop a rabid fan following but it wont lose as much money as non-TV sports, T&F, tennis, and gymnastics.

We have a network coming and its better for Pitt vs Duke lacrosse to be on TV in April than nothing.

To accomplish this, T&F would have to go. There is no point in keeping a non-TV, non-fan sport like T&F if you dont have a facility. We already have a lacrosse facility. The spring soccer season is only 5 exhibition games. You paint lacrosse lines on the field and there you go. Pitt wouldn't be the only school in the country to use a soccer field as a lacrosse field. Plus, practice times could be booked in the IM Bubble.

As fas getting the most bang for its buck, lacrosse would fall only after football, mens basketball, and wrestling in terms of cost-benefit. You add womens lacrosse and womens crew to account for Title IX.

Wait now you are adding women's lacrosse and women's crew?!?! Women's crew is a 20 scholarship sport. How would that be a financial positive?

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Always thought the grassy knoll area next to Pete was under utilized. Also the large cement deck area behind the Pete.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Not sure where you could shoehorn a tennis complex in on cardiac hill at this point, unless you wanted to take out the Pete lawn, and I don't think that is a good idea.

The beauty of tennis courts if they individually have small footprints and can be laid out in numerous configurations. You could probably also build them on top of another structure. I look at the roof of Trees and I think you could conservatively put eight courts up there with some seating. I'm not saying they could/would ever build on Trees (I don't think they could) but it is wasted space.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Lacrosse is a TV sport and the fastest growing NCAA sport. No, Pitt lacrosse isnt going to make money or develop a rabid fan following but it wont lose as much money as non-TV sports, T&F, tennis, and gymnastics.

We have a network coming and its better for Pitt vs Duke lacrosse to be on TV in April than nothing.

To accomplish this, T&F would have to go. There is no point in keeping a non-TV, non-fan sport like T&F if you dont have a facility. We already have a lacrosse facility. The spring soccer season is only 5 exhibition games. You paint lacrosse lines on the field and there you go. Pitt wouldn't be the only school in the country to use a soccer field as a lacrosse field. Plus, practice times could be booked in the IM Bubble.

As fas getting the most bang for its buck, lacrosse would fall only after football, mens basketball, and wrestling in terms of cost-benefit. You add womens lacrosse and womens crew to account for Title IX.

Wait now you are adding women's lacrosse and women's crew?!?! Women's crew is a 20 scholarship sport. How would that be a financial positive?

Didn't know that. No women's lacrosse then. Just men's lacrosse and women's crew.