OT: Pirates hire Derek Shelton as manager

[HailToPitt725]

Was the hitting coach for the Indians when they were good in the 2000s and the Rays for a large part of this decade. Spent the last two years as the bench coach for the AL Central champion Twins.

I think the GM and manager hires went as good as they could’ve gone and should create some optimism among the fanbase. Now we should prepare for a 76ers-style tank job and hope their player development reputations prove to be accurate.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Pitching coach is probably most important to undo the years of damage NH and Searage did. But this is a good hire by the looks of it.

 

[mbe 34]

Was the hitting coach for the Indians when they were good in the 2000s and the Rays for a large part of this decade. Spent the last two years as the bench coach for the AL Central champion Twins.

I think the GM and manager hires went as good as they could’ve gone and should create some optimism among the fanbase. Now we should prepare for a 76ers-style tank job and hope their player development reputations prove to be accurate.

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Optimism?
Guy has NO managerial experience at this level
Mets, Rangers, Twins all passed on him
PG article said he was “almost universally respected” ???

He’ll fit right in - gotta be the lowest paid Manager in the league.

I hope he works out but I’m not optimistic.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Optimism?
Guy has NO managerial experience at this level
Mets, Rangers, Twins all passed on him
PG article said he was “almost universally respected” ???

He’ll fit right in - gotta be the lowest paid Manager in the league.

I hope he works out but I’m not optimistic.

He was at the top of every list... That's got to count for something. I'd take him over a guy like Beltran any day.

 

[wbrpanther]

Pitching coach is probably most important to undo the years of damage NH and Searage did. But this is a good hire by the looks of it.

Funny how Searage went from absolute genius pitcher whisperer to a dumb idiot in just a few years.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Optimism?
Guy has NO managerial experience at this level
Mets, Rangers, Twins all passed on him
PG article said he was “almost universally respected” ???

He’ll fit right in - gotta be the lowest paid Manager in the league.

I hope he works out but I’m not optimistic.

I wouldn’t knack him for no managerial experience. Four of the last six NL Managers of the Year were first time managers.

 

[wbrpanther]

Optimism?
Guy has NO managerial experience at this level
Mets, Rangers, Twins all passed on him
PG article said he was “almost universally respected” ???

He’ll fit right in - gotta be the lowest paid Manager in the league.

I hope he works out but I’m not optimistic.

Connie Mack and John McGraw are unavailable since their both dead.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Funny how Searage went from absolute genius pitcher whisperer to a dumb idiot in just a few years.

Looks like Jim Benedict was the real genius. He left for the Marlins and everything went to hell.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Optimism?
Guy has NO managerial experience at this level

Hey, whaddaya want? Gene Mauch is dead.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Connie Mack and John McGraw are unavailable since their both dead.

Aw man, you beat me to it . . .

 

[Gary77]

Unless Nutting goes away it won't matter who is hired to manage the team. Sad!!

 

[jtownknowitall]

Welcome back John Russell.

 

[mbe 34]

Hey, whaddaya want? Gene Mauch is dead.

Not sure why you would reference Gene Mauch.

I would have preferred more of a “Splash” hire .
Memory serves me the Pirates traded to get Chuck Tanner - who went on to win a World Series.
I also think they released Jim Leyland - who went to Florida and won a World Series.
Guys with experience can be hired ( at least they used to be). Not sure who or what’s available in the market but this seems like a bottom feeder move - got a guy who comes cheap and has been rejected by others.
I hope he works out.

I was more intrigued with “almost universally respected”
That’s the same as saying he’s “not universally respected”.
Maybe it was just a writer being lazy - but why insert the word “almost”?
Whatever - wish him luck.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Not sure why you would reference Gene Mauch.

Only because he was the classic example of the retread who kept getting recycled from team to team.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Unless Nutting goes away it won't matter who is hired to manage the team. Sad!!

Here is my unpopular opinion: Nutting’s money means nothing for the next several years so people should stop using this line.

All that will matter during the rebuild is drafting and player development. We can start using the Nutting excuse again when their window reopens.

 

[mbe 34]

Only because he was the classic example of the retread who kept getting recycled from team to team.

Yeah you’re right.
I remember years ago marveling how he kept getting hired and never achieved much.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Not sure why you would reference Gene Mauch.

I would have preferred more of a “Splash” hire .
Memory serves me the Pirates traded to get Chuck Tanner - who went on to win a World Series.
I also think they released Jim Leyland - who went to Florida and won a World Series.
Guys with experience can be hired ( at least they used to be). Not sure who or what’s available in the market but this seems like a bottom feeder move - got a guy who comes cheap and has been rejected by others.
I hope he works out.

I was more intrigued with “almost universally respected”
That’s the same as saying he’s “not universally respected”.
Maybe it was just a writer being lazy - but why insert the word “almost”?
Whatever - wish him luck.

I don’t necessarily disagree with your post, but I’ll play a little Devil’s Advocate here: I feel like if we hired someone like John Farrell- someone who has experience and won a World Series but fizzled out- there’d be an outcry for someone who wasn’t a “retread.”

Also, what splash candidates were out there? Besides Farrell, Maddon and Girardi were already hired and Ned Yost and Bochy retired. Perhaps Ron Washington or Buck Showalter?

 

[pierre93]

He was at the top of every list... That's got to count for something. I'd take him over a guy like Beltran any day.

Plzzzz....zzzzzzzzz keep telling yourself this Einstein

 

[NCanton Panther]

Funny how Searage went from absolute genius pitcher whisperer to a dumb idiot in just a few years.

Yeah that is funny but it is a results-oriented profession and that’s what the results suggest. Everyone subsequently attributes the early success more so to Jim Benedict.

 

[PittFan540]

Funny how Searage went from absolute genius pitcher whisperer to a dumb idiot in just a few years.

His decline coincided with the fact that the assistant pitching coach left for another team. It’s been all downhill since then.

 

[PittFamily2]

How could he do worse than what just happened at PNC Park?

 

[H2PZoo]

Awful hire. Pirates will always go cheap

 

[pierre93]

I wouldn’t knack him for no managerial experience. Four of the last six NL Managers of the Year were first time managers.

And that's why Beltran shouldn't be mocked either.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

And that's why Beltran shouldn't be mocked either.

Well, Shelton has a great deal of experience where Beltran has little. Not saying Shelton will be more successful but he has a head start.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Plzzzz....zzzzzzzzz keep telling yourself this Einstein

Thanks!I am pretty smart but I wouldn't compare myself to Einstein.

 

[jtownknowitall]

Beltran has played Major League Baseball. Shelton has watched Major League Baseball.

 

[jtownknowitall]

Yeah that is funny but it is a results-oriented profession and that’s what the results suggest. Everyone subsequently attributes the early success more so to Jim Benedict.

who’s everyone? How has Benedict done since he left?

 

[pittbb80]

Is this a bridge year coming up or is this a total rebuild.........If its the latter how long will it take to break .500 and content for a WC?

The pirates have been rebuilding for about 28 of the last 30 years.........

 

[HailToPitt725]

And that's why Beltran shouldn't be mocked either.

Who said I was mocking him? Boston and New York made similar hires and it’s worked out pretty good for them so far.

 

[mbe 34]

I don’t necessarily disagree with your post, but I’ll play a little Devil’s Advocate here: I feel like if we hired someone like John Farrell- someone who has experience and won a World Series but fizzled out- there’d be an outcry for someone who wasn’t a “retread.”

Also, what splash candidates were out there? Besides Farrell, Maddon and Girardi were already hired and Ned Yost and Bochy retired. Perhaps Ron Washington or Buck Showalter?

I don’t necessarily disagree with your post, but I’ll play a little Devil’s Advocate here: I feel like if we hired someone like John Farrell- someone who has experience and won a World Series but fizzled out- there’d be an outcry for someone who wasn’t a “retread.”

Also, what splash candidates were out there? Besides Farrell, Maddon and Girardi were already hired and Ned Yost and Bochy retired. Perhaps Ron Washington or Buck Showalter?

I wish I was better versed on who might have been available but I’m not.
By the names you mention you are way better informed than me.
Buddy of mine told me 7 teams were hiring and the Pirates were the last to make a move?
Is that because of happenstance or the Pirate offers / job just isn’t desirable?
Regardless this looks like a rebuild that may take years.
Admit I am disheartened as a Pirate fan and have lost a lot of interest.
I dropped my season tickets a few years ago. The collapse after the All Star game this year was just another in a series of failures for this franchise.

I hope they come back.

 

[HailToPitt725]

I wish I was better versed on who might have been available but I’m not.
By the names you mention you are way better informed than me.
Buddy of mine told me 7 teams were hiring and the Pirates were the last to make a move?
Is that because of happenstance or the Pirate offers / job just isn’t desirable?
Regardless this looks like a rebuild that may take years.
Admit I am disheartened as a Pirate fan and have lost a lot of interest.
I dropped my season tickets a few years ago. The collapse after the All Star game this year was just another in a series of failures for this franchise.

I hope they come back.

Honestly, I think they were the last to hire because they bungled everything so badly. Instead of firing Coonelly, Huntington, and Hurdle at once, they first fired Hurdle and then waited to fire the other two. Huntington had already started searching for a new manager when he was fired, so the manager search was put on hold until they could hire a new president and general manager. By the time they resumed the manager hiring process, everyone else had already made their hires.

And I agree, it has been disheartening, but I’d be willing to give the new leadership patience if they’re committed to rebuild instead of their half-you-know-what stuff we’ve seen the last three years. Just tear it down and start over.

 

[pierre93]

I wish I was better versed on who might have been available but I’m not.
By the names you mention you are way better informed than me.
Buddy of mine told me 7 teams were hiring and the Pirates were the last to make a move?
Is that because of happenstance or the Pirate offers / job just isn’t desirable?
Regardless this looks like a rebuild that may take years.
Admit I am disheartened as a Pirate fan and have lost a lot of interest.
I dropped my season tickets a few years ago. The collapse after the All Star game this year was just another in a series of failures for this franchise.

I hope they come back.

Long as nutsack owns the team you might as well save your time and $$$. Hurdle was a fall guy.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Beltran has played Major League Baseball. Shelton has watched Major League Baseball.

I'm likewise not thrilled with this hire, but let's not forget that Leyland never played in the majors either.

 

[Burgh15]

Love the track record with small market teams. The guy knows how to do a lot with little resources. Great hire!

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Oh your so witty dork and the boy wonder who likes your posts. Wiplashes keep pumping $$$ to the Pirates organization. Just luv how u yinzers spin it to your liking.

Thanks!

But seriously friend, I'm no Nutting apologist. I just don't see the reason to see a negative in everything the organization does. They hired a good GM and have hired a quality managerial candidate. Can't fault them for that. Plenty of else to complain about.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I'm likewise not thrilled with this hire, but let's not forget that Leyland never played in the majors either.

There are a lot of great major league managers who never played major league baseball. There are a lot of awful major league managers who did play major league baseball. I would imagine that if you went through all manager hires over the last 20 or 30 years you'd find that whether or not a guy played in the majors has almost nothing at all to do with whether or not he became a successful manager.

 

[TheJimster]

Forget the people in the office. How about Hiring a few pitchers , a real catcher, and an out fielder.

 

[ChazzMo]

Looks like Jim Benedict was the real genius. He left for the Marlins and everything went to hell.

This

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Forget the people in the office. How about Hiring a few pitchers , a real catcher, and an out fielder.

Catcher is our most glaring need right now. I'd be ok with seeing what we can get for Diaz and rolling with Stallings and another journeyman while we trade for an ace prospect catcher and let him progress.

I'd also trade to get Reese McGuire back in a heartbeat.

Need to really play the Marte and Bell (and to a lesser extent Archer and Kela) trades for good returns. They probably determine the direction of this franchise for the next three years.

 

[pittmeister]

Catcher is our most glaring need right now. I'd be ok with seeing what we can get for Diaz and rolling with Stallings and another journeyman while we trade for an ace prospect catcher and let him progress.

I'd also trade to get Reese McGuire back in a heartbeat.

Need to really play the Marte and Bell (and to a lesser extent Archer and Kela) trades for good returns. They probably determine the direction of this franchise for the next three years.

“Need to really play the Marte and Bell (and to a lesser extent Archer and Kela) trades for good returns. They probably determine the direction of this franchise for the next three years.”

Great point.