OT: Pitt back in mix for Pittsburgh Athletic Club building

[CrazyPaco]

On the prowl: Pitt eyes the purchase of the Pittsburgh Athletic Association clubhouse in Oakland

In 2017, the University of Pittsburgh lost out to Walnut Capital in the bidding for the iconic Pittsburgh Athletic Association clubhouse across from the...

www.post-gazette.com

Yes please....after the Syria Mosque, this is Pitt's biggest all-time whiff on real estate acquisitions. A rare chance to correct it.

And frankly, the Syria Mosque is only the bigger whiff because it was torn down and there is no chance to correct that (although Pitt now does own the plot of land with plans to build).

You just can't let a high profile, historic, contiguous, centerpiece building directly across the street from the Cathedral of Learning pass.

 

[CrazyPaco]

And if Pitt does get it, for goodness sakes, leave the exterior uplighting.

Everyone I've brought into Oakland at night remarks how awesome the PAA building looks. Even Soldiers and Sailors is lit. And then you look around the campus at all the dark, unlit Pitt-owned buildings and see none of the extremely impressive architecture of campus highlighted. Another example of just how terrible Pitt is at marketing itself.

Also noticeable how well lit it is walking on the sidewalk in front of this building, which then just becomes completely dark as soon as you get to any other part of campus...just next door.

Pitt's core quad of buildings around the Cathedral Lawn should all have exterior uplighting at night: Cathedral, Heinz Chapel, WPU, Alumni Hall, Clapp Hall, Music Building, the Bellefield bell tower, and Bellefield Hall.

 

[WillyDavis33]

Great building and yes we should be very interested in purchasing. We already have space leased in the building! Keep pushing for space!

I would guess that 99% of people visiting Pitt already think that is part of the campus.


H2P

 

[forbesfield]

It even looks like an old university building.

 

[thebadby2]

And if Pitt does get it, for goodness sakes, leave the exterior uplighting.

Everyone I've brought into Oakland at night remarks how awesome the PAA building looks. Even Soldiers and Sailors is lit. And then you look around the campus at all the dark, unlit Pitt-owned buildings and see none of the extremely impressive architecture of campus highlighted. Another example of just how terrible Pitt is at marketing itself.

Also noticeable how well lit it is walking on the sidewalk in front of this building, which then just becomes completely dark as soon as you get to any other part of campus...just next door.

Pitt's core quad of buildings around the Cathedral Lawn should all have exterior uplighting at night: Cathedral, Heinz Chapel, WPU, Alumni Hall, Clapp Hall, Music Building, the Bellefield bell tower, and Bellefield Hall.

Been to a couple of wedding receptions there and stayed there 20-plus years ago. Beautiful place but was showing a lot of wear and tear then. Needed a big influx of money.

Also stayed at the old University Club a couple times. Same thing, beautiful but worn. The bar there with all the wood paneling and college crests from all over the country was really cool.

Shame that the PAA closed. Hopefully Pitt buys it, restores it to its historical glory and operates it as either a university club or high end on campus lodging/hospitality, as opposed to a glorified office/admin building.

I recently stayed at the Chicago Athletic Assoc. hotel, a grand old turn of the century private club that is now a hotel open to the public, and the resto job on it is phenomenal.

 

[forbesfield]

Been to a couple of wedding receptions there and stayed there 20-plus years ago. Beautiful place but was showing a lot of wear and tear then. Needed a big influx of money.

Also stayed at the old University Club a couple times. Same thing, beautiful but worn. The bar there with all the wood paneling and college crests from all over the country was really cool.

Shame that the PAA closed. Hopefully Pitt buys it, restores it to its historical glory and operates it as either a university club or high end on campus lodging/hospitality, as opposed to a glorified office/admin building.

I recently stayed at the Chicago Athletic Assoc. hotel, a grand old turn of the century private club that is now a hotel open to the public, and the resto job on it is phenomenal.

The PAA was definitely beat to hell towards the end. Many fond memories of attending events there, though, including the time I was drunk at a wedding and somehow wandered into the bowling alley and couldn't figure out the way back.

I too loved the University Club.

 

[YourPittDanceTeam]

On the prowl: Pitt eyes the purchase of the Pittsburgh Athletic Association clubhouse in Oakland

In 2017, the University of Pittsburgh lost out to Walnut Capital in the bidding for the iconic Pittsburgh Athletic Association clubhouse across from the...

www.post-gazette.com

Yes please....after the Syria Mosque, this is Pitt's biggest all-time whiff on real estate acquisitions. A rare chance to correct it.

And frankly, the Syria Mosque is only the bigger whiff because it was torn down and there is no chance to correct that (although Pitt now does own the plot of land with plans to build).

You just can't let a high profile, historic, contiguous, centerpiece building directly across the street from the Cathedral of Learning pass.

The purchase of the PAA should be a no-brainer for the Pitt. Unfortunately Pitt will be too cheap to purchase the building that is in the heart of their campus.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

I agree it is a no brainer, but what would you do with it?? Use?

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

are there any plans for the 21st century club? I thought that was purchased several years ago.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Been to a couple of wedding receptions there and stayed there 20-plus years ago. Beautiful place but was showing a lot of wear and tear then. Needed a big influx of money.

Also stayed at the old University Club a couple times. Same thing, beautiful but worn. The bar there with all the wood paneling and college crests from all over the country was really cool.

Shame that the PAA closed. Hopefully Pitt buys it, restores it to its historical glory and operates it as either a university club or high end on campus lodging/hospitality, as opposed to a glorified office/admin building.

I recently stayed at the Chicago Athletic Assoc. hotel, a grand old turn of the century private club that is now a hotel open to the public, and the resto job on it is phenomenal.

The University Club was restored by Pitt when they bought it in 2005. Parts of it just received another restoration for the roof deck this past year as well.

The PAA was restored by Walnut Capital. It is apparently in good shape now although I've not been in it. Exterior looks great. They're the ones that installed the exterior up lighting.

 

[CrazyPaco]

are there any plans for the 21st century club? I thought that was purchased several years ago.

No definitive plans yet announced. They are studying the use for it as part of their master facilities plan. Probably good for student event spaces like the former Concordia Club.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I agree it is a no brainer, but what would you do with it?? Use?

Pitt currently has a 15 year lease on the 5 & 6th floors for $1.2m a year (not including another $1.4m in renovations) which I believe is going to house, at least temporarily, some of the Learning Research & Development Center that was displaced when its building was torn down for the new student rec center on O'Hara St.

However, it would be such a prominent and centrally located building, and one that immediately impresses any visitor, you'd have to think about putting something prominent or high traffic in there.

Adding a facility like this is a decision that impacts the next 100 years. It really is more about seizing the opportunity and then determining the best use. Just like they've done for the 20th Century Club but failed to do with Schenley High School.

Could move admission out of Alumni Hall over to it. When they first bought the Masonic Temple (Alumni Hall), they studied moving the library into that. Probably can't do that for multiple reasons, but one of the buildings may be a good showcase for part of the library (e.g. special collections).

Certainly could put any academic department in there.

You want it to be a place to show of the university. It is that special.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

I worked at the PAA while in school. Really cool building.

 

[PITT 76]

It's a beautiful building and centrally located. Purchase the building. We can always put it to use when we own it.

 

[jivecat]

Paco,

In your humble opinion…why doesn’t the university expand behind Cost? I think some “ancillary” properties could benefit the university and the community in that area.

Is it a case of impeding on the Hill? I feel like the time is right to move into that area.

 

[thebadby2]

Pitt currently has a 15 year lease on the 5 & 6th floors for $1.2m a year (not including another $1.4m in renovations) which I believe is going to house, at least temporarily, some of the Learning Research & Development Center that was displaced when its building was torn down for the new student rec center on O'Hara St.

However, it would be such a prominent and centrally located building, and one that immediately impresses any visitor, you'd have to think about putting something prominent or high traffic in there.

Adding a facility like this is a decision that impacts the next 100 years. It really is more about seizing the opportunity and then determining the best use. Just like they've done for the 20th Century Club but failed to do with Schenley High School.

Could move admission out of Alumni Hall over to it. When they first bought the Masonic Temple (Alumni Hall), they studied moving the library into that. Probably can't do that for multiple reasons, but one of the buildings may be a good showcase for part of the library (e.g. special collections).

Certainly could put any academic department in there.

You want it to be a place to show of the university. It is that special.

You want it to be a place to show of the university. It is that special.

That’s why IMO using it for an academic or admin building would be a waste of its historical beauty and character. It was a private social club for over 100 years. Be a shame to assign some mundane use to it that could be just as well served by any metal and glass box.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Paco,

In your humble opinion…why doesn’t the university expand behind Cost? I think some “ancillary” properties could benefit the university and the community in that area.

Is it a case of impeding on the Hill? I feel like the time is right to move into that area.

Pitt has the plot of land behind Cost where the Pitt Sports Dome is and it is slated for the future indoor track.

After that, there isn't much of interest to purchase. And there has to be willing sellers. There are a lot of pieces Pitt would want in an around campus(see the continuing hold outs in the middle of the Bouquet Gardens plot), but behind cost is really on the periphery, but there also has to be willing sellers who would do so at a reasonable price.

Also keep in mind the decade long absolute slug fest that Pitt went through with the city and various interest groups to get the Robinson Court housing complex that the Petersen Sports Complex now sits on. There are some empty redevelopment authority plots across Centre Ave, but political capital needed to obtain those would probably not be something Pitt had a lot of interest in doing unless it was a really major and important project. There would be a lot of hands out.

Add to that, it just difficult to get to that area from the main core of campus for a typical student. It would be a hike up and down a hill and back. It is a low foot traffic area, and may also require Pitt Police to expand their range in a way that would be complicated. There could be opportunities across Centre, but not really the easiest thing to do, and I don't know if it really works for Pitt. Pitt has eyed the other direction for things not quite realistically contiguous, towards the river, like the BIoForge project, because it is easier to develop.

So the short answer is probably yes, impinging on the Hill is just complicated.

 

[CrazyPaco]

You want it to be a place to show of the university. It is that special.

That’s why IMO using it for an academic or admin building would be a waste of its historical beauty and character. It was a private social club for over 100 years. Be a shame to assign some mundane use to it that could be just as well served by any metal and glass box.

Well the Cathedral of Learning is an academic and administrative building, so it really is about how it is used.

Pitt's academic buildings are all open to the public. But to your point, I wouldn't turn it into a residence hall where access is restricted.

My first thought is admissions where people get their first impression of the university (which is currently Alumni Hall, which isn't bad).

 

[HailtoPitt]

I agree it is a no brainer, but what would you do with it?? Use?

Front entry for a new stadium!

 

[HailtoPitt]

On the prowl: Pitt eyes the purchase of the Pittsburgh Athletic Association clubhouse in Oakland

In 2017, the University of Pittsburgh lost out to Walnut Capital in the bidding for the iconic Pittsburgh Athletic Association clubhouse across from the...

www.post-gazette.com

Yes please....after the Syria Mosque, this is Pitt's biggest all-time whiff on real estate acquisitions. A rare chance to correct it.

And frankly, the Syria Mosque is only the bigger whiff because it was torn down and there is no chance to correct that (although Pitt now does own the plot of land with plans to build).

You just can't let a high profile, historic, contiguous, centerpiece building directly across the street from the Cathedral of Learning pass.

So what you are saying is that many folks at Pitt are inept? Been that way for a long time.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Been to a couple of wedding receptions there and stayed there 20-plus years ago. Beautiful place but was showing a lot of wear and tear then. Needed a big influx of money.

Also stayed at the old University Club a couple times. Same thing, beautiful but worn. The bar there with all the wood paneling and college crests from all over the country was really cool.

Shame that the PAA closed. Hopefully Pitt buys it, restores it to its historical glory and operates it as either a university club or high end on campus lodging/hospitality, as opposed to a glorified office/admin building.

I recently stayed at the Chicago Athletic Assoc. hotel, a grand old turn of the century private club that is now a hotel open to the public, and the resto job on it is phenomenal.

I did attempt to have my wedding reception there a number of years ago, but kept getting the runaround on the date. Was told "The Chancellor might need the building" over and over again. Heinz Chapel on the other hand was the opposite experience. They were like a well oiled machine.

But to your other point, I think Walnut no longer wants it because it's not easy to make into a residential space due to plumbing. So likely to remain offices.

 

[HOF Coach]

Front entry for a new stadium!

 

[CrazyPaco]

So what you are saying is that many folks at Pitt are inept? Been that way for a long time.

No.

I'm saying it isn't perfect, like any other large institution.

Pitt has gotten more right than wrong.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I did attempt to have my wedding reception there a number of years ago, but kept getting the runaround on the date. Was told "The Chancellor might need the building" over and over again. Heinz Chapel on the other hand was the opposite experience. They were like a well oiled machine.

But to your other point, I think Walnut no longer wants it because it's not easy to make into a residential space due to plumbing. So likely to remain offices.

I don't think Walnut ever wanted to make it residential space. The entire intent was for offices.

Several high profile tenants never materialized, like Apple. Perhaps it is proving more difficult to fill than expected.

Pitt probably wants more space, so it may make more sense just to flip it to Pitt.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

On the prowl: Pitt eyes the purchase of the Pittsburgh Athletic Association clubhouse in Oakland

In 2017, the University of Pittsburgh lost out to Walnut Capital in the bidding for the iconic Pittsburgh Athletic Association clubhouse across from the...

www.post-gazette.com

Yes please....after the Syria Mosque, this is Pitt's biggest all-time whiff on real estate acquisitions. A rare chance to correct it.

And frankly, the Syria Mosque is only the bigger whiff because it was torn down and there is no chance to correct that (although Pitt now does own the plot of land with plans to build).

You just can't let a high profile, historic, contiguous, centerpiece building directly across the street from the Cathedral of Learning pass.

Buy it, knock down the Oaklander Hotel. Acquire the Wyndham and the UPMC office building. Then knock down that Clapp, Langley, and Crawford Hall block. Relax. Rebuild that office/classroom space somewhere else and then build a stadium with the one endzone across the street from Soldiers & Sailors. Other endzone on Ruskin Ave. Only a lower level on the PAA/Alumni Hall side so fans can watch from windows and rooftops in the shadow of the CL. Easily would be the coolest stadium in the country. Tell Cuban to build this and buy an MLS team and put it in there. FC Cincinnati's stadium neighborhood reminded me a lot of Oakland.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I don't think Walnut ever wanted to make it residential space. The entire intent was for offices.

"Given the office woes, Walnut Capital last year considered switching gears, scrapping its original plan in favor of a mixed-use development that included higher-end condominiums and restaurants.

It estimated at the time that the building could house 20 to 30 condos, depending on the layout and the demand. It was banking on the location being a big selling point given that the property is situated in the heart of the Pitt and UPMC campuses in Oakland."

 

[CrazyPaco]

"Given the office woes, Walnut Capital last year considered switching gears, scrapping its original plan in favor of a mixed-use development that included higher-end condominiums and restaurants.

It estimated at the time that the building could house 20 to 30 condos, depending on the layout and the demand. It was banking on the location being a big selling point given that the property is situated in the heart of the Pitt and UPMC campuses in Oakland."

Oh interesting. That's definitely a change and I hadn't heard that. Really indicates they were struggling with finding suitable tenants. Hopefully the plumbing issues mentioned above keep the condos from happening. If they turn it into condos, Pitt will never be able to acquire it, so Pitt better jump all over this because it is likely the last shot.

 

[forbesfield]

It costs a shit-ton to upgrade these old buildings, no matter how beautiful they are. Once the Pandora's box of "code" gets opened, there is hell to pay. Possible that they couldn't charge enough for condos to make it worth their while, given all of the work that would have needed to be done.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Oh interesting. That's definitely a change and I hadn't heard that. Really indicates they were struggling with finding suitable tenants. Hopefully the plumbing issues mentioned above keep the condos from happening. If they turn it into condos, Pitt will never be able to acquire it, so Pitt better jump all over this because it is likely the last shot.

I'm not trying to be a smartass (many would say that I don't have to try!), but that quote comes from the article that you linked.

 

[HailToPitt725]

And if Pitt does get it, for goodness sakes, leave the exterior uplighting.

Everyone I've brought into Oakland at night remarks how awesome the PAA building looks. Even Soldiers and Sailors is lit. And then you look around the campus at all the dark, unlit Pitt-owned buildings and see none of the extremely impressive architecture of campus highlighted. Another example of just how terrible Pitt is at marketing itself.

Also noticeable how well lit it is walking on the sidewalk in front of this building, which then just becomes completely dark as soon as you get to any other part of campus...just next door.

Pitt's core quad of buildings around the Cathedral Lawn should all have exterior uplighting at night: Cathedral, Heinz Chapel, WPU, Alumni Hall, Clapp Hall, Music Building, the Bellefield bell tower, and Bellefield Hall.

Paco, do you know of what plans Pitt has for the PAA if they successfully acquire it?

 

[bayardstreet]

Buy it and then lease some of the floors to the Steelers. They can create a training center that would be the envy of all NFL owners

 

[HailToPitt725]

I'm not trying to be a smartass (many would say that I don't have to try!), but that quote comes from the article that you linked.

You can be a smartass, but you’re also right 9/10… I respect that about you!

 

[Dan1911]

Offer to trade the owners for one of the hideous brutalist buildings on campus.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Paco, do you know of what plans Pitt has for the PAA if they successfully acquire it?

No, I doubt they have any concrete plans yet, other than the board had approved renting the 5th and 6th floors expecting to house the LRDC in there for a while.

 

[pittchagg]

Offer to trade the owners for one of the hideous brutalist buildings on campus.

Don’t you dare talk about Barco that way!

 

[pittchagg]

No, I doubt they have any concrete plans yet, other than the board had approved renting the 5th and 6th floors expecting to house the LRDC in there for a while.

I think with an opportunity like this, the plan would probably be to take advantage of the chance to buy it and figure out the best use from there. I know they just recently renovated Alumni Hall for admissions, but that’s an interesting option.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I think with an opportunity like this, the plan would probably be to take advantage of the chance to buy it and figure out the best use from there. I know they just recently renovated Alumni Hall for admissions, but that’s an interesting option.

Just this summer I accompanied a prospective student on an official tour. Of course it starts and is based out of the admissions office in Alumni Hall.

It's not bad, but they have to move from the admissions check office up to the 2nd floor small theater for the video/slide presentation. It isn't really well put together for that in my opinion with everyone funneling in and out of elevators.

And the tour was underwhelming. Luckily, I was there to provide the enhanced tour afterwards. Don't get me started on the student manning the admissions reception desk....couldn't even answer a question appropriately.

But I think they could move admissions into a more dedicated space; hopefully all on one floor, keep the alumni association in Alumni Hall where it could become a functional and inviting Alumni welcome back center. They'd need to put at least one presentation stadium-type theater in PAA though. It would also be convenient because it is adjacent to the Oaklander hotel, where a lot of prospective students stay on their visit and likely are parked directly across in Sailors & Soldiers garage (which, btw, I know it is a garage but it needs a little work).

 

[ben43]

After Pitt, I went to grad school at Texas A and M. TAMU has about a 12-story tower next to the student center that included a student recruitment center on the ground floor. The top two floors had a restaurant (the upper floor served a buffet and the lower floor served sandwiches & salads back in the day) with great views of the campus. The PAA has (had?) a facility, maybe a gym, on the roof. I could dream that Pitt could replace it with a two-story restaurant with windows looking out on the Cathedral of Learning. That would be a fantastic location to bring prospective students.

 

[CrazyPaco]

After Pitt, I went to grad school at Texas A and M. TAMU has about a 12-story tower next to the student center that included a student recruitment center on the ground floor. The top two floors had a restaurant (the upper floor served a buffet and the lower floor served sandwiches & salads back in the day) with great views of the campus. The PAA has (had?) a facility, maybe a gym, on the roof. I could dream that Pitt could replace it with a two-story restaurant with windows looking out on the Cathedral of Learning. That would be a fantastic location to bring prospective students.

The University Club has a rooftop terrace restaurant, just re-renovated, that is now open to all faculty and alumni. The College Room is now open to non-members as well.

The terrace has an awesome view.

Honestly, you aren't going to get a better angle than that. The Cathedral of Learning was intentionally built for that as the optimal viewing angle as far as textures and the varying depths (and from the opposite side as you approach down 5th Ave, or the angle from Hillman Library); compared to the comparatively very flat view of it you get facing it directly from Heinz Chapel or the WPU. Depending on the angle, it almost looks like a different building.

The Oaklander Hotel has a restaurant at the top too, which would be way higher than anything on the PAA, but the angle just isn't as good as the University Club:

 

[CrazyPaco]

I'm not trying to be a smartass (many would say that I don't have to try!), but that quote comes from the article that you linked.

Yeah, I just somehow missed that completely. I see there was a prior article about the change in plans too. I wonder if that also impacted the planned 2-floor lease that the Pitt board approved. That was the last thing I had myself seen, the news of the board approving the lease, until this rumor in the PG.