OT: Pitt bidding on Athletic Association property

[Pitt0912]

It depends on what Pitt uses it for. Being a tax exempt organization doesn't mean that every property you own is tax exempt, the use of the property is considered. If it's used for purely commercial activity it will be taxed, for example. In this situation, it's overwhelmingly likely that if Pitt gets this property (this building is part of a bankruptcy proceeding so a federal bankruptcy judge has to OK the sale and the creditors, including local taxing bodies like the city etc. get a say too) Pitt will work out a payment in lieu of taxes (Pilot) with the School District, the City and the County.

I would like to see Pitt acquire this property simply due to location and logistics.

However....if Pitt does get this building, does it not become tax exempt? I dont know the answer but I would think that becomes an issue?

And finally....im curious what you would do with this building? If there is a fitness center, pool, bowling alley....I would think high end condos in the heart of Oakland makes sense.

Anybody??

 

[Pitt0912]

U Prep is a public high school with a magnet program. There is not a chance in hell that it will be taken over by Pitt, closed, or sold.

If I were Pitt, I'd be focused on this area (including University Prep). There's more houses on Atwood Street then there are in this radius.

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[Revenge Of The Noise]

Let's get Mayor Peduto involved.....oh he can't because he is too busy with bike lanes and sanctuary city stuff

Perhaps if Pitt pledged to build Pegasus East ...

Just kidding. There's no way in heck Pitt is getting that place.

 

[Jpripper88]

No they shouldn't. In some cases they may, others they may not. But they have a fidicuary duty.

I'd hate for you to take care of my finances.

Except they already have space and facility issues and very limited options to expand. If they don't buy those properties when they become available, they won't get another shot. And their fiduciary duty is a great point for why they should...buy. The land will only end up costing them more down the line or limit their options for growth, unless they overly split the campus, which would be awful.

 

[Jpripper88]

What you said in your post is why, to me, there is no "overpaying" for the PAA. It's wwaaaaaaayyyy more valuable to Pitt than some outside developer from Chicago or Philly looking to make a buck because it's right smack dab in the middle of campus. We likely won't ever get another bite at this apple so to speak. I will say that the restrictions and conditions might make the property less attractive, but at first glance this is an opportunity we have to do our utmost to take advantage of.

Exactly. And you figure out the restrictions after you have the property. It would be tragic for Pitt to be dumb enough to miss this chance.

 

[HailtoPitt]

If I were Pitt, I'd be focused on this area (including University Prep). There's more houses on Atwood Street then there are in this radius.

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The ura controls some of that property.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Would like to hear Crazy Paco's impression of the situation.

Pitt should do everything it can to get it and I would hope they'd go above market value to secure it, because they have done so on some other properties, and this is significantly beyond anything they've purchased in prominence, location, architecture, and history since they acquired the Schenley Hotel in the 1950s. I agree it would mean more to Pitt than it would to any developer. It would be one of Pitt's most iconic buildings. Can't let this one slip through their fingers, at least for lack of trying, although the end result is not entirely up to Pitt.

Pitt has had a working relationship with the PAA for years so they should be aware of their needs and Pitt could certainly work with the PAA to allow them the space and facility use that they need, while integrating parts of the building into campus (such as using it as student apartments as parts of the building was used for last year). I would think Pitt would be interested in using parts of it as a faculty/student rec center as well, particularly the bowling alley which is already used for Pitt clubs, etc. Plus, one has to wonder how much longer the PAA club will actually limp along. 50 years from now, it could be all Pitt's. Hopefully Pitt has also reached out to potential donors to make their bid more competitive. This is a once in a 100 year opportunity...they should go full bore.

It also wouldn't be unprecedented for Pitt strike a deal that allows a long term lease in one of their buildings as this is the case with Pitt-owned Bellefield Towers which also houses the Community of Reconciliation church, as well as the University Club which Pitt leases the upper floors of to the Family House.

Pitt also doesn't need to have concrete plans for the building at this time. It has seldom had concrete plans prior to purchasing properties, and this was certainly the case for the Masonic Temple and Bellefield Hall, not to mention the Syria Mosque parking lot it just bought from UPMC.

Regarding taxation, the PAA property, or at least part of it, is currently taxable. Therefore, a Pitt purchase could switch that in part, however, Pitt would pay property taxes on the portion of the club that would be leased to the PAA club, and on any part used for commercial purposes.

Also, being listed on the National Registry of Historic Places does not in itself afford any protective status. However, almost assuredly the Pittsburgh Planning Commission, Historic Review Commission, Schenley Farms Civic Association, and every historic preservation group in Pittsburgh would prevent any alteration to the facade that wasn't at least made in deference to the historic nature of the structure. It has no chance of being torn down.

Pitt made a mistake with Schenley High, but at least they're in the game with this property. They have at least 1 in 10 chance.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I agree. Sheriff sale means you screwed up. Zero say in what becomes of it. Lose your house in a sheriff sale and then demand the new owner doesn't change the paint color, see how that works out for you.

Doesn't mater how anyone acquired it. Try getting a permit to demo or build on it from the city. These days, it would never pass the city historic review and planning commissions unless it was already unsalvageable.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Pitt should pay significantly over market price for every single piece of property on or near campus. I cant believe they didn't bid on Schenley HS or that parking lot of First Baptist Church which is now a private office building

First Baptist didn't sell the parking lot. They leased it to a developer. They still own that property.

 

[ThePanthers]

Except they already have space and facility issues and very limited options to expand. If they don't buy those properties when they become available, they won't get another shot. And their fiduciary duty is a great point for why they should...buy. The land will only end up costing them more down the line or limit their options for growth, unless they overly split the campus, which would be awful.

They should review each purchase separately. Not blindly over pay for each piece of land as smf suggest.

In this case with this particular piece they should imo. I mean there has to be a threshold but it should be much higher than the other bidders.

 

[Cathedral Lawn Frisbee]

Was frisbeeing with friends yesterday on the "lawn" looking over at the PAA and it is one of the greatest looking buildings anywhere in PITTsburgh.

This is a must get for us w/ so many possibilities.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

1 in 10? Given the university's awful relationship (not it's fault, though great sports would reverse it) with the city and county, particularly the convenient (and asinine) conjecture on the city's part that Pitt does not "pay it's fair share" of taxes (allowing it to be the whipping boy for the mass corruption and internal swindles of the city government) ... I think there's more like a PowerBall chance of Pitt being given the property (some of which would then become "tax exempt," correct?), almost at any price Pitt could come up with.

Wouldn't it have been likely that Pitt has been trying to buy this place BEFORE it got to this point? It's not exactly been a secret that the PAA has been on very hard times and Pitt would be the most natural suitor in the world. But in some mysterious way, despite all the very public problems, it was allowed to get all the way to this point of desperation, a sheriff sale?

Now the process can be kept somewhat secret and all the powers of interest under the scenes can make the deal they want for who they REALLY want to get it. And almost certainly it isn't going to be Pitt IMO. Mayor Pudgy will fight like a (nittany) lion to assure that.

 

[Swervin27]

Student housing seems like a good fit.

Isn't there a hotel being built right behind it? With my disdain for the hotel boom in Oakland, it would suck if it went to whoever is building a hotel behind it, as an extension of the original.

Luxury Marriott I think. Called the Oaklander. Gay ass name, F that place and F Marriott. Hope it fails miserably, gets haunted or something like the shining or the one with John cusak.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Why not a first class student rec center? They need one of those anyway and that would be a very cool place for one. It would also allow them to use the building for its original purpose.

 

[Jpripper88]

They should review each purchase separately. Not blindly over pay for each piece of land as smf suggest.

In this case with this particular piece they should imo. I mean there has to be a threshold but it should be much higher than the other bidders.

But that is the point everyone else is making and you have eschewed until this point. There is a market value and then there is a value to Pitt. That value to Pitt is much, much higher than the rest of the market, so there is absolutely no way Pitt should be outbid. SMF never said to bid blindly and neither did anyone else, but they did say they should be willing to far outbid the market because there is so much more value to Pitt.

 

[3genpanther]

There is a market value and then there is a value to Pitt.

In other words, Pitt should set the market. Not exactly the same situation but: People thought Steve Ballmer was nuts for buying the Clippers for $2B a few years ago, but NBA franchises, especially ones in prime cities, don't change hands very often. People aren't calling him nuts anymore.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

In other words, Pitt should set the market. Not exactly the same situation but: People thought Steve Ballmer was nuts for buying the Clippers for $2B a few years ago, but NBA franchises, especially ones in prime cities, don't change hands very often. People aren't calling him nuts anymore.

As I mentioned above, it would almost have to be the most overwhelming overbid in city RE history to overcome the hostility to Pitt that exists. Can or will Pitt go as far as necessary? As CP said above, this property and building are a once in a century opportunity.

 

[upj87]

Student housing seems like a good fit.

Isn't there a hotel being built right behind it? With my disdain for the hotel boom in Oakland, it would suck if it went to whoever is building a hotel behind it, as an extension of the original.

Luxury Marriott I think. Called the Oaklander. Gay ass name, F that place and F Marriott. Hope it fails miserably, gets haunted or something like the shining or the one with John cusak.

yeah, it kind of sucks having a place to stay on campus for us Pitt parents and folks with relatives in the hospital.. can't get enough of that lovely drive up Bates street from hotel x in Homestead or Monroeville... .

 

[Swervin27]

yeah, it kind of sucks having a place to stay on campus for us Pitt parents and folks with relatives in the hospital.. can't get enough of that lovely drive up Bates street from hotel x in Homestead or Monroeville... .

Plenty of options in shadyside, east liberty, the numerous hotels already in Oakland. We don't need another one, built literally in the shadows of the cathedral, smack dab in the middle of a college campus.

You got relatives in the hospital, do what every other human being on this planet does who is in a similar situation, drive to it, park and walk to it. It won't kill you. If that's too much if a hassle, you don't love them.

If you are visiting your kid at pitt, you don't need a hotel room on campus. Give the kid some space, he or she doesn't need mom and dad staying next door. They are in college, time to cut the chord.

 

[HailtoPitt]

I'm not sure the City or Peduto have much say in this process.

It sounds like the PAA will choose, which should mean that Pitt has the upper hand. There is already a relationship there, and Pitt has the resources both financially and otherwise to make the most appealing offer.

They will blow it though.

 

[ThePanthers]

But that is the point everyone else is making and you have eschewed until this point. There is a market value and then there is a value to Pitt. That value to Pitt is much, much higher than the rest of the market, so there is absolutely no way Pitt should be outbid. SMF never said to bid blindly and neither did anyone else, but they did say they should be willing to far outbid the market because there is so much more value to Pitt.

SMF says a bunch of crazy things so I took it that way.

They should set the market, but they also need to be responsible.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

Plenty of options in shadyside, east liberty, the numerous hotels already in Oakland. We don't need another one, built literally in the shadows of the cathedral, smack dab in the middle of a college campus.

You got relatives in the hospital, do what every other human being on this planet does who is in a similar situation, drive to it, park and walk to it. It won't kill you. If that's too much if a hassle, you don't love them.

If you are visiting your kid at pitt, you don't need a hotel room on campus. Give the kid some space, he or she doesn't need mom and dad staying next door. They are in college, time to cut the chord.

Can't argue much with your screed. But hotels aren't a bad thing in Oakland, and close hotels to the city center would be a boon as well (there's always a gripe that the city gets few meaningful conferences due to sparse hotel space nearby). There's likely fringe space on BOTA or such where additional hotels would be welcome.

But THIS particular property should not be resigned to that fate (nor for over the top condos for wealthy fruit-fly trust fund Peduto patrons either). It screams to be a prime University building. I just don't think it's likely however.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

I'm not sure the City or Peduto have much say in this process.

It sounds like the PAA will choose, which should mean that Pitt has the upper hand. There is already a relationship there, and Pitt has the resources both financially and otherwise to make the most appealing offer.

They will blow it though.

The best management team in baseball ... I mean, the best administration in the university business ... blow it? Shirley, you jest!

I truly hope the city hasn't been able to manipulate it, i.e., fix it for a RE development crony that is lining the city gov's pockets ... but I would find that pretty remarkable. Hopefully Peduto is indeed the oafish clueless douche he allows himself to be unwittingly portrayed as.

 

[Cathedral Lawn Frisbee]

While we are on the topic of the PAA and nearby, across the street on Bigelow, in front of the CoL, there is now a bike lane and parallel parking instead of head in parking.

The city should just close the street and make it green space.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

While we are on the topic of the PAA and nearby, across the street on Bigelow, in front of the CoL, there is now a bike lane and parallel parking instead of head in parking.

The city should just close the street and make it green space.

Another triumph for the oppressed!

 

[upj87]

Plenty of options in shadyside, east liberty, the numerous hotels already in Oakland. We don't need another one, built literally in the shadows of the cathedral, smack dab in the middle of a college campus.

You got relatives in the hospital, do what every other human being on this planet does who is in a similar situation, drive to it, park and walk to it. It won't kill you. If that's too much if a hassle, you don't love them.

If you are visiting your kid at pitt, you don't need a hotel room on campus. Give the kid some space, he or she doesn't need mom and dad staying next door. They are in college, time to cut the chord.

thank you Dr. Spock.always better to not to "crowd" them on that one day visit by staying 12 miles outside of campus. ..but like I said earlier apparently the whole "shadows of the hallowed cathedral" rule does not seem to apply to t-shirt and gyro stands....now, back to my original grocery store idea (since the un-corded kids have no place to buy them in Oakland). And how dare you label my kid as a he or she when you do not know whether they may be transitioning or in some questioning phase.....

 

[Jpripper88]

SMF says a bunch of crazy things so I took it that way.

They should set the market, but they also need to be responsible.

They need to beat the price anyone else would pay.

 

[ThePanthers]

They need to beat the price anyone else would pay.

OK. I'm going to put a bid in for $6 billion.

 

[Swervin27]

thank you Dr. Spock....but like I said earlier apparently the whole "shadows of the hallowed cathedral" rule does not seem to apply to t-shirt and gyro stands....now, back to my original grocery store idea (since the un-corded kids have no place to buy them in Oakland).

a gyro stand and a bookstore? You are upset about a college merchandising store on a college campus? How do I respond to that. A gyro stand? Like a portable one on a sidewalk? Again, what do I say back to you on this.

There is a very large giant eagle in shadyside and a ghetto one in east liberty (shocker it being ghetto). Another one in south side. We don't need a giant eagle on a campus. That's the issue here. You guys don't get this whole campus idea.

 

[Cathedral Lawn Frisbee]

I am hearing around 28M for the building from some friends w/contingency clause for safety issues during inspections. There is deferred maintenance and is sold "as is".

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

OK. I'm going to put a bid in for $6 billion.

I've patiently instructed you, give a tiny fraction of that money to make football a NC contender, even just 2 or 3 times in a 20 year period (about as frequently as the Steelers are in the Super Bowl), and Pitt would basically be given property like this for nothing.

 

[upj87]

a gyro stand and a bookstore? You are upset about a college merchandising store on a college campus? How do I respond to that. A gyro stand? Like a portable one on a sidewalk? Again, what do I say back to you on this.

There is a very large giant eagle in shadyside and a ghetto one in east liberty (shocker it being ghetto). Another one in south side. We don't need a giant eagle on a campus. That's the issue here. You guys don't get this whole campus idea.

last time I checked Oakland was not East Liberty or Shady Side and the University of Pittsburgh is not located there. I also made no complaints or showed no animosity towards the permanent gyro stand or the t-shirt stand. You said that. Ok, now here is a tongue and here is a cheek...that was were I was going with the whole giant eagle deal. ....Maybe next time you will think twice about diss'n on Marriott (the official home of pampered Pitt Panther football campers) to a Silver Rewards member.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

Isn't there some "IGA" on Forbes Avenue?

Anyway, Pitt shouldn't want grocery stores, or even tons of restaurants in easy distance to students, for that matter. That's competition for its scrumptious meal plans! Do they still make the nasty, nasty barnacles, I mean boiled scallops on Fridays, the ones that stunk up the entire Towers to high heaven?

 

[Jpripper88]

OK. I'm going to put a bid in for $6 billion.

See, that is the exact response of someone with no point. No one is going to bid something crazy and beyond their means because it is business. No crazy bid beyond financial abilities is going to be accepted and chosen.

 

[Swervin27]

last time I checked Oakland was not East Liberty or Shady Side and the University of Pittsburgh is not located there. I also made no complaints or showed no animosity towards the permanent gyro stand or the t-shirt stand. You said that. Ok, now here is a tongue and here is a cheek...that was were I was going with the whole giant eagle deal. ....Maybe next time you will think twice about diss'n on Marriott (the official home of pampered Pitt Panther football campers) to a Silver Rewards member.

Just don't like this crap in heart of campus, that's all. Do you need a hotel across st from cathedral. They are building office buildings on 5th, do you need office building development on pitt campus? Annoys hell out of me. Why so freakin close?

Let's keep some sort of semblance of a college environment. Marriott and office buildings don't do that. We already have 30 hospitals here, do we need to add yet another separate industry conglomerate?

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

Just don't like this crap in heart of campus, that's all. Do you need a hotel across st from cathedral. They are building office buildings on 5th, do you need office building development on pitt campus? Annoys hell out of me. Why so freakin close?

Let's keep some sort of semblance of a college environment. Marriott and office buildings don't do that. We already have 30 hospitals here, do we need to add yet another separate industry conglomerate?

Honestly, you make a real point here. Zoning alone should prevent such a thing. Hotels involve tons and tons of traffic, frequent drop offs, airport vans, tour buses, clueless wandering pedestrians etc. There would be a bar in the bottom level as well, no doubt. Big garish sign. That intersection is enough of a disaster as it is.

 

[PITTLAW]

Exactly. And you figure out the restrictions after you have the property. It would be tragic for Pitt to be dumb enough to miss this chance.

Nobody who is bright or represented by competent counsel figures out what restrictions or encumbrances come with a property after purchasing it. Wow...simply a stupid thought! Hail to Pitt!

 

[PITTLAW]

The best management team in baseball ... I mean, the best administration in the university business ... blow it? Shirley, you jest!

I truly hope the city hasn't been able to manipulate it, i.e., fix it for a RE development crony that is lining the city gov's pockets ... but I would find that pretty remarkable. Hopefully Peduto is indeed the oafish clueless douche he allows himself to be unwittingly portrayed as.

The property is in bankruptcy. Accordingly, the federal bankruptcy judge presiding over the estate must approve any sale or transfer. Be certain, NO LOCAL politics will be in play, nor could they be. Hail to Pitt!

 

[jaygeekray]

Would it be Tepper Arena or Tepper Field?

Together Bofe

 

[jaygeekray]

What about the skinny boutique hotel currently under construction on the parking lot of the PAA?