Interesting story that highlights how vital lithium is in today’s society and how wastewater from shale operations outside of Pittsburgh could produce up to 40% of the amount the U.S. needs.
OT: Pitt study finds “significant” lithium source just outside Pittsburgh
- Thread starter HailToPitt725
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KDKA is picking up this story now. If what I’m reading on this is correct, I’m not sure everyone understands how big of a game-changer this could be for the region.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I find this interesting for a number of reasons but there are obvious concerns that come with it. Curious how they extract the lithium and how much infrastructure would surround that part of the operation. Also worry about the affect of not replacing the water because you sure don't want sink holes popping up everywhere.
It sounds like the lithium comes up with the wastewater, so very little impact compared to current fracking. Unfortunately most of the processing today is in China so those factories need build domestically.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...n-dollar-industry-government-study-finds.html
Hope so. Was in the Marcellus first wave 2008-2011. Did not last as long as people thought. Made lots of cash but the drilling fizzled quickly.
If only there was an energy source below Pennsylvania!
I wonder if there is even a way to profitably remove the lithium from the water. I remember WVU did a study on produced water in their region of the shale a few years ago and tested the minerals. I only remember that it had insane levels of radioactive minerals but don’t remember them talking about being a potential lithium gold mine.
I liked this quote in that thread from Otto von Bismarck,
“God has a special providence for fools, drunks, and the United States of America.”
Folks (channeling my inner Biden voice) we cannot separate from nor eliminate energy from fossil fuels. It is stupid, but it is also not practical. Derivatives from this involves all plastics, organic chemicals (yeah I know some are bad), synthetic graphites (without good luck processing things like solar, semiconductor, nuclear, wind, and thermal batteries not to mention things like steel, aluminum, titanium, magnesium, etc...) and now Li needed for Li Ion batteries for power generation and EV's.
Modern society as we are currently constructed, cannot function without. Despite whatever Dr. Greta Thunberg may tell ya.
Modern society as we are currently constructed, cannot function without. Despite whatever Dr. Greta Thunberg may tell ya.
This has been known for some time, but remember the "water" that comes back up from fracking is pretty nasty, and made nastier by reusing it several times over.
Recovering minerals would start by dehydrating the mixture. This could be accomplished by simple evaporation by the sun.
You'd be left with a highly complex salt mixture.
The salt would have to be refined in some way to remove and purify the various components, some of which are radioactive.
Not a good enough chemist to guess what that may entail, but I imagine it would be complex and messy.
Recovering minerals would start by dehydrating the mixture. This could be accomplished by simple evaporation by the sun.
You'd be left with a highly complex salt mixture.
The salt would have to be refined in some way to remove and purify the various components, some of which are radioactive.
Not a good enough chemist to guess what that may entail, but I imagine it would be complex and messy.
FP,
I have visited Mg and Ti plants on the other side of the Great Salt Lake from SLC. You are right. It is otherwordly looking. People should Google Earth shots from this and you can see the pools of salt water where these minerals are drying.
Lithium having to be extracted from wastewater does sound messy and complicated, but solving that problem is probably easier than solving the problem of not having any lithium.
I trust that the engineers can eventually make it work.
Yeah, the value proposition appears to be based on (1) the fact that nobody has done it at scale so it’s a total black box as to how expensive it actually will be, and (2) how much less expensive and more nationally secure will it be than relying on the current incredibly-sketchy model of mining the stuff in Chile or China and bringing it over here.
Seems to be firmly in the “theoretically possible” territory rather than the “imminent and profitable.” But ultimately, unconventional extraction and the waste produced is profitable but harmful for the environment, and mining the lithium out of massive Chilean pit mines is also profitable but harmful for the environment. If you can combine those two harmful but profitable enterprises into one generally harmful but profitable enterprise, it’s probably a net positive for all involved.
And, from an energy extraction perspective, being able to double up on both ends via fossil fuel extraction AND extraction of a mineral used in clean energy applications helps to mitigate the energy companies’ risk as more and more domestic energy uses shift to renewable.
China's Xi, by becoming and retreating into "China" again, might be the best thing to happen for our economy. It has caused everyone to reevalute and appreciate the security of "making stuff" in our own country and/or friendlies. Relying on adversaries to offshore key materials and technology was not playing the long game.
Our Shoe Cobbler already let us know that Pitt to the SEC is a done deal; and I really can't think of a more trustworthy poster on this board.
Not my area of expertise (Mining Engineering ; not Petroleum Engineering). Given that, I cannot say how difficult, messy or expensive extracting the Lithium may prove to be. However, in concept, I am for producing needed materials for solar panels, EVs, windmills, etc. in the U.S.
Note: Analogous to this proposal to obtain lithium are proposals being studied to recover rare earth elements needed for commercial and national security military applications from coal mine tailings. This would have the added side-benefit of reducing tailings volumes and re-disposing the reduced volume in a far less environmentally unfriendly way than when they were disposed many decades or longer ago when today's environmental standards didn't exist.
IMHO, these types of actions should be encouraged . Why?
(1) Because we have the technology and environmental controls to produce these needed materials far more cleanly in the U.S. than will be done overseas
(2) It will enhance National Security by reducing dependence on uncertain foreign supplies of critical minerals.
(3) We will be exercising "environmental justice" by not transferring production of garbage and pollution to other countries--often third world countries where the outcome will be far worse since U.S. environmental standards don't exist in those countries.
IMHO, to make these beneficial things happen we will have to reduce the impact of the "not in my backyard " (i.e., NIMBY) syndrome preventing such things from happening in the U.S. That will be very difficult---As, for example, where I live, the public is fighting construction of new electric power transmission lines needed to power the data centers required to support cell phone service.
Unfortunately, many (most?) of us are environmentally schitzophrenic--we want all the benefits of modern technology and a greener future--without being willing to accept any of the inconvenience required.
I'm certain that Penn State School of Mining Engineering is all over this. Going back to their frack drilling playbook, they will conduct studies on Lithium extraction that falsely determine massive profits and benefits with zero negative consequences for the people of Pennsylvanis. The major political party in charge of the largest state legislature in the US will hail it as a windfall and the federal government will follow in turn. Certain Alumni and supporters, in line to reap obscene profits from the implementation of the studies proposal, will reciprocate and, Voila! The New $500,000,000 Joe Paterno Stadium will appear on the cow field of razed Beaver Stadium.
No one will remember or care that the Dean will have to appear publicly to apologize for the false fabrications and projected outcomes of the fraudulent study and that, in atonement, the author is no longer employed at dear, old State.
No one will remember or care that the Dean will have to appear publicly to apologize for the false fabrications and projected outcomes of the fraudulent study and that, in atonement, the author is no longer employed at dear, old State.
When is the fracking money coming to Pennsylvania? Those Washington County fracking towns are still poor AF
Just after the casino money reduces school taxes.
I’m waiting for the elites who really are into the environment to lead the way. DiCaprio taking a private jet from France to NY to accept an environmental award. The head of Greenpeace flying to work every day.
People decrying climate change with 5 houses and private jets. Let me see them act responsibly first before I trade in my gas powered tools for battery powered ones.
I know tons of people in those fracking towns that received tons of money. It isn't the gas companies fault that the recipients of the royalties blew the money on vehicles/bosts/trips/etc and now have little to show for it.
I’ve seen lots of new barns, tractors, and farm houses in Washington county. I assume most, if not all came from gas royalties.
Same (not quite to the same extent) up in some of the more rural areas of Butler County. In the late 00's/early 10's, the equipment all got newer and the old farmhouses got makeovers with additions put on.
