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PITT VS NC STATE FRIDAY NIGHT @FITZ

wrestlingfan22

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Dec 11, 2022
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ACC competition opens up with NC State, possibly the toughest ACC matchup we have, and the only ACC dual we lost last season. NC State has had an underwhelming year in terms of dual competition, 10-2 overall, but vs a much weaker schedule and losing their two matches against top 10 opponents. However, this is a matchup where we are definite underdogs and will need to swing some matches in our favor.

Preview:
125: #31 Camacho v. NR Trombley
Trombley is a 6th year season who has spent most of his career at 133. He was 125 last season and was the ACC champ and went 2-2 at NCAA's (all matches were close against great competition). He is 2-2 on the year with 3 of those matches coming up at 133. Jakob Camacho has been the starter for NC State all year and was ranked as high as number 1, but is currently out for some reason or Trombley has beat him out. Trombley beat Camacho in two last year, 10-5 and 11-8. That makes me want to give this match an NC State lean, but since Trombley has hardly wrestled all year and only wrestled at 125 one time I am not sold completely that he is up to the same level he was last season. TOSS UP

133: #20 Santaniello vs #6 Orine
Kai Orine is a returning AA who last season beat Mickey Philippi 2x. He is 8-2 on the season, but has lost his last two matches, to Fix and Bouzakis. Vinnie went 1-1 vs Bouzakis and lost to Fix. This is not an entirely unwinnable match for Vinnie, but I feel as if Orine's experience in these high profile matches will give him a definite edge. NCST Favored.

141: #27 Matthews vs #4 Jack
This is the toughest match in the dual meet for me to decipher. Jack has looked really good so far this season, while Cole has not looked nearly like his old self. Jack is 12-2 on the season with both his losses coming to tOSU's Jesse Mendez (who Cole beat). However, his wins list of Jamison, McNeil and Happel is very impressive and makes it clear that he is a high AA threat. What complicates it for me is this, Cole is 4-0 in his collegiate career against Ryan Jack. He has beat him in the dual and at ACC's for 2 consecutive years. Jack did beat Cole in a freestyle match this offseason, so it is not like he has never beaten him. However, the fact that this is such a one sided (but very close) historical matchup makes me think this will be match that comes down to the wire. TOSS UP

149: #29 Solomon vs #3 Arrington
Like CranberryPF said, this is the one to watch. Solomon transferred here from NC State after not being able to win the spot from Arrington. This is definitely a match he had circled on his calendar. Arrington has looked amazing this season, and he was a NCAA Blood Rd guy last year. He has only 1 loss on the year, to Dylan D'Emilio, that he avenged later on. Based only on the rankings and stats from the year he is the clear favorite. If that was all that mattered however, we would only use Wrestlestat and not actually wrestle the matches. Finn will have a lot to prove, as well as the fact that there is going to be a lot of familiarity between the two of them. I also have noticed that wrestlers who transfer away from a school often do good against them in the future, though obviously this is not always the case. Because of the history I can't accept this one as 1 sided. TOSS UP

157: NR Keslar vs #7 Scott
Ed Scott is a returning 5th place finisher who is 15-3 on the season. He has taken some strange losses, but also has some very solid wins. He is an amazing upper body wrestler and if Keslar gets into those big exchanges he saw vs Teemer I am not optimistic for the outcome. This is a spot where we wanna keep it close and try to steal something late as Scott is prone to being upset occasionally. NCST Favored.

FIRST HALF: 0 Pitt Favored, 3 Toss Up, 2 NCST Favored.
This first half is going to set the tone for the entire dual, we could be winning at half or we could be getting shut out and I wouldn't be surprised either way. Hopefully the toss ups go our favor and/or we possibly sneak an upset

165: #14 Heller vs #16 Fields
This match is crucial for Pitt, we are favored and Holden needs a win to get back on track. Unfortunately it is far from a sure thing. The Heller we saw vs ASU (Fields majored that kid) likely doesn't get the job done, but the Holden that has wrestled most of the year can absolutely beat him. Fields is 10-2 and based on his ranking appears to be the starter. However, AJ Kovacs is also listed on the probable, and he is 8-6 this year. If he goes I would favor Holden, but I expect to see Fields in a close one. TOSS UP

174: #17 Augustine vs #31 Faison
Faison beat Luca both times they faced off last season, however Luca has looked better so far this season, winning matches against guys that beat Faison. Specifically, Wask and Thompson beat Faison but lost to Luca. Faison has lost 3 of his last 4 and appears to be in a slump, however his 2-0 record vs Luca last year makes me hesitant to declare this a one-sided contest. TOSS UP

184: #12 Heller vs #7 Fishback
Fishback is 12-4 on the year with all his losses coming in close matches. 2 of his losses are to the top 2 in the country and the other 2 losses are to guys ranked in the top 15. He is a stud redshirt freshman who has made a huge jump this year from last. I think Reece has a real shot in this match if he wrestles his best and doesn't get out of control at all, but we all know how risky his style can be. I am very interested to see if he can make something big happen and pull off another win vs a top 8 guy. This will be a huge measuring stick for ACC's. TOSS UP

197: #13 Stout vs # 4 Hidlay
Hidlay is a 3x AA who has placed as high as 2nd at 184. In his first year at 197 he has looked great, going 16-0 so far and dominating top guys such as Cardenas and Beard. Mac has a lot on his plate here, and will need to get likely mutiple takedowns to win this as Hidlay has been held under 10 points or a fall in only 1 match this season. Seeing him here could hopefully help close the gap by ACC's and NCAA's. NCST Favored.

285: NR Magin vs #14 Trephan
Magin is yet to compete this season and it is his first year at HWT. Trephan made the rd16 at NCAA's last year and beat Pitzer. I would hope Magin can slow this match down and try to avoid any bonus, maybe shoc the world. NCST Favored.

2nd Half: 0 Pitt Favored, 3 Toss Up, 2 NCST Favored
Similar story as the first half, where it could go a variety of ways. Assuming we start at 125 we need to have a significant lead going into 197 for it to be comfortable. I am very nervous but also excited to see these matchups, which will likely be repeated at ACC's

Overall: We can win this dual and we can get shut out. Neither would really shock me. The team if they come ready to wrestle like they have at times they can pull off some upsets (by national rankings) and win the rest of the toss ups to take the dual. If they show up the way they did vs OKST, Navy and Little Rock I would expect NCST to score over 30 points on us. Can't wait for this one, could give us a real shot at another ACC Dual title if we win.
 
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Definitely. My story should be posted soon. The hope is that he can return for the ACC tournament, but that is still TBD. I’d love to see Dayton in the postseason, but also want to make sure this heals properly. I don’t want to see him in a shoulder brace for his final three seasons.
Very unfortunate to hear about Pitzer
 
Definitely. My story should be posted soon. The hope is that he can return for the ACC tournament, but that is still TBD. I’d love to see Dayton in the postseason, but also want to make sure this heals properly. I don’t want to see him in a shoulder brace for his final three seasons.
Losing a year would suck but it would be better than the alternative, guys who rushed back from that injury were rarely the same. Kemerer's shoulder got so bad that not even the brace kept his shoulder in and now he has already retired from competing.
 
Panthers need to take a big step in recruiting. Maybe victory heights will help once recruits can see the transformation? They need to pull a Navy and get a coach that can get to the next level.
 
next years recruiting is puzzling. three wrestlers at 141 and no recruits in the upper weights where they have no depth.
 
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Our recruiting has never been good enough. I know we got Pitzer and stout but what I’ve always found is any high level Recruit that we’ve gotten has always been a pitt lien from the start, before recruiting ever even starting. I just don’t think we have anybody on the staff that’s good enough recruiting maybe Nino can be that guy cause he’s a bigger name now with national championship recognition but the other guys are just not getting it done, Just my opinion.
 
Panthers need to take a big step in recruiting. Maybe victory heights will help once recruits can see the transformation? They need to pull a Navy and get a coach that can get to the next level.
Navy isn’t next level. They haven’t had an all American in a long time. Whereas Pitt just had a national champ last season and has had multiple AA’s the last few seasons.
 
Yeah, we are already above Navy status. I know that they’re either already doing it or will in the future but I would definitely utilize Nino on the recruiting trail, because his personality is phenomenal as well as he has the credentials to back it up.
 
Don't get me wrong i love pitt, wrestling to me is maybe the easiest sport to fix. Navy is not currently but will be soon and a very hard school to recruit to and i know my son went thru the process to get there.
 
Is NC State that good on top or do we just struggle on bottom? Granted I feel like we have struggled more on bottom with other opponents too but geez!
 
Mac is well conditioned and he looks gassed in period one against Hidlay. Hidlay’s motor is another level.
 
Man, I wasnt expecting a win, but most of those results are atrocious. I missed the match due to some night work, but I clearly didnt miss much.
 
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Our recruiting has never been good enough. I know we got Pitzer and stout but what I’ve always found is any high level Recruit that we’ve gotten has always been a pitt lien from the start, before recruiting ever even starting. I just don’t think we have anybody on the staff that’s good enough recruiting maybe Nino can be that guy cause he’s a bigger name now with national championship recognition but the other guys are just not getting it done, Just my opinion.
We had a good start getting some local guys in here, but watching Rocco Welsh almost take out Griffith and Ty Watters sitting at 7th as a true freshman, those are guys we need. I was hoping with Latrobe and Waynesburg alum on staff, some of the kids from those schools would have come here. Would be nice to have Kilkeary, Welsh, or Mac Church at Pitt,
 
Happy for Cole he looked great tonight
I can only hope that he builds off of this again and steamrolls through the rest of the season. If he wrestles at his ceiling, he really is a difficult wrestler to beat. Let’s hope we continue this version!
 
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We had a good start getting some local guys in here, but watching Rocco Welsh almost take out Griffith and Ty Watters sitting at 7th as a true freshman, those are guys we need. I was hoping with Latrobe and Waynesburg alum on staff, some of the kids from those schools would have come here. Would be nice to have Kilkeary, Welsh, or Mac Church at Pitt,
Im looking at the guys Santoro is bringing in at Lehigh and wondering where HCKG is going wrong.

It just seems that Pitt is consistently underperforming with the guys we are getting. Multiple time PA state champs that take 3 years to make the national rankings.

Im happy that we have a competitive team compared to Peters' tenure but after 7 years, we still seem to be consistently underperforming
 
Im looking at the guys Santoro is bringing in at Lehigh and wondering where HCKG is going wrong.

It just seems that Pitt is consistently underperforming with the guys we are getting. Multiple time PA state champs that take 3 years to make the national rankings.

Im happy that we have a competitive team compared to Peters' tenure but after 7 years, we still seem to be consistently underperforming
Who are the multiple time pa state champs in the lineup? I count only Matthews and Pitzer. Matthews is all American and Pitzer was high in national rankings right away. I would say they need more multiple time pa state champs. I don’t think they’ve ever had PA triple A multiple time state champ. They have a few guys that have 0 state titles. Bonaccorsi had 0 state titles though too.

Also they’ve been better than Lehigh the last few years. Pitt beat Lehigh 3 years in a row now in duals and have outperformed them at nationals. Comparing to Lehigh and Navy is weird because Pitt has been better than programs like that. But they need to get to the nc state and vtech level.
 
I’m with you that’s exactly where we need to be. Somehow we’re starting to look at NC State and V-tech like oh well they’re just a better program, We can’t recruit as good as they can but they blow us out of the water with recruiting. and I know we compete against them from time to time but overall when it gets to the final ACC individual tournament, we get smoked, I don’t know I just don’t get it. It’s almost like you never hear about who we are recruiting even though some people on here are insiders, but are we not recruiting top caliber wrestlers, can we not close them? Are we settling for mid-level prospects and just hoping we can develop them into a Keith Gavin type guy which is a lightning in a bottle lol.
 
I’m with you that’s exactly where we need to be. Somehow we’re starting to look at NC State and V-tech like oh well they’re just a better program, We can’t recruit as good as they can but they blow us out of the water with recruiting. and I know we compete against them from time to time but overall when it gets to the final ACC individual tournament, we get smoked, I don’t know I just don’t get it. It’s almost like you never hear about who we are recruiting even though some people on here are insiders, but are we not recruiting top caliber wrestlers, can we not close them? Are we settling for mid-level prospects and just hoping we can develop them into a Keith Gavin type guy which is a lightning in a bottle lol.
Well when you look at the recruiting classes Pitt’s 2022 and 2023 class were the first ranked classes this staff has had. The 2022 class is the stout and Pitzer class who are freshman right now. Stout is currently ranked 13th his first season and Pitzer has been ranked 8-10. The 2023 class was highlighted by Anthony Santaniello who was a top 20 pound for pound recruit and is redshirting. So last two years have definitely picked up as far as recruiting but needs to make another jump. I would expect 2025 class to be added to as that will be an important class.

Nc state and vtech are top ten teams and Pitt has beaten both. Beat tech and shared the acc dual title just last season. But I think we all want Pitt to beat them consistently and they are capable of getting of there. They havent won the tournament but definitely don’t get smoked there. There have been a ton of ACC champs over the last 6 seasons form Pitt. Off the top of my head…wentzel had 3 titles, meech had 2 titles, Phillippi had 2, Bonaccorsi had 3, Matthews currently has 2.

Bottom line, Pitt needs all 10 guys in the lineup that can be AA threats to be able to beat teams like nc state.
 
I’ve had the privilege of knowing some top recruits that chose other schools over Pitt the last 2-3 years. Two items stuck out, urban campus, they just didn’t feel comfortable in Oakland. I like the Pitt campus as most on here do but not everyone likes the environment. NIL monies is also a factor along with RTC. Big 10 schools specifically, and other programs with more donor money are providing monetary benefits that are very enticing through the RTC. Other factors such as grey shirting and ability to train for freestyle were mentioned. Pitt offers the RTC, my boys used it, but other RTC’s have much more $ and top level internationally recognized wrestlers to train with.

Just a few factors that were mentioned but there were some others. One thing that usually wasn’t mentioned was education. Seems as if many of the top guys are more focused on extending their wrestling career via holding back in HS and then wrestling until they are 25-26 years old than graduating at 22-23 and starting their working career. it’s a personal choice but I know a handful of freshman who are already 20 years old and are red shirting, so their first true year is as a 21 year old. Pitt is very young,
 
A few things that stood out. NC State was aggressive and shooting right from the whistle and catching these guys early. They were far more physical, better riding, had better stamina, and just looked very disciplined. This was similar to Oklahoma State who was just better at pretty much everything. Watching Cole last night you would never guess his record this season. He still gives up the legs too easily and the defense won’t always work. But his conditioning stood out last two big wins. And he has found ways to get takedowns. The days of low scoring are over for him, he has to be able to get several takedowns.
 
Who are the multiple time pa state champs in the lineup? I count only Matthews and Pitzer. Matthews is all American and Pitzer was high in national rankings right away. I would say they need more multiple time pa state champs. I don’t think they’ve ever had PA triple A multiple time state champ. They have a few guys that have 0 state titles. Bonaccorsi had 0 state titles though too.

Also they’ve been better than Lehigh the last few years. Pitt beat Lehigh 3 years in a row now in duals and have outperformed them at nationals. Comparing to Lehigh and Navy is weird because Pitt has been better than programs like that. But they need to get to the nc state and vtech level.
Well, I had a long winded response and hit post and it errored me back to square one so you get the cliff notes version.

Im probably overreacting bc I dont follow HS wrestling or recruiting much at all, but I see guys who seemed to be on a relatively close level in HS like Dylan Evans and Tyler Kasak, but one year later and they seem worlds apart. Evans has been solid but obviously still a freshman when facing tourney caliber opponents while Kasak is in the top 10 already. I get that its PSU and Cael but it just feels like our guys' development tends to be much slower.

I also acknowledge that we have 4 redshirt freshmen ranked right now so the its not like we arent seeing success, but it always feels like we are a half step behind.
 
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I’m with you that’s exactly where we need to be. Somehow we’re starting to look at NC State and V-tech like oh well they’re just a better program, We can’t recruit as good as they can but they blow us out of the water with recruiting. and I know we compete against them from time to time but overall when it gets to the final ACC individual tournament, we get smoked, I don’t know I just don’t get it. It’s almost like you never hear about who we are recruiting even though some people on here are insiders, but are we not recruiting top caliber wrestlers, can we not close them? Are we settling for mid-level prospects and just hoping we can develop them into a Keith Gavin type guy which is a lightning in a bottle lol.
I do think that Gavin looks for guys in his mold. Nino is really the only non grad transfer recruit that I would consider a plus athlete. Everyone else seems to fit the grinder mold. We dont have guys that can overwhelm opponents athletically
 
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