OT: Pittsburgh home to the two greatest hitters in MLB history

[Fk_Pitt]

MLB, as of today, will now recognize the Negro League as part of Major League Baseball.

so we have a new home run champ. Josh Gibson is now MLB’s greatest HR hitter and it’s not even close. His career total eclipses Barry Bonds by over 200. Of course Barry only begrudgingly called Pittsburgh home for part of his career.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Of. "two of the" Ted Williams. Mickey Mantle. Babe Ruth. Joe DiMaggio. Rogers Hornsby. Stan Musial. Honus Wagner. Which is interesting because the last two have Pittsburgh ties also.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

MLB, as of today, will now recognize the Negro League as part of Major League Baseball.

so we have a new home run champ. Josh Gibson is now MLB’s greatest HR hitter and it’s not even close. His career total eclipses Barry Bonds by over 200. Of course Barry only begrudgingly called Pittsburgh home for part of his career.

I was going to post on the other board that those guys have to be up in arms over this decision.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I was going to post on the other board that those guys have to be up in arms over this decision.

Yeah...ok.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Josh Gibson should have been the first black player in mlb. He was five times the player as Robinson.

 

[Upg bobcat]

My understanding is that the official negro league records has Gibson at only 238 home runs. The other 500-700+ came during exhibition play (which negro league teams did a ton of exhibition games in their day). So Gibson doesn't automatically become the MLB's home run king.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

My understanding is that the official negro league records has Gibson at only 238 home runs. The other 500-700+ came during exhibition play (which negro league teams did a ton of exhibition games in their day). So Gibson doesn't automatically become the MLB's home run king.

Damn. Ok. I wasn’t aware of that.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Josh Gibson should have been the first black player in mlb. He was five times the player as Robinson.

I think the story goes, Jackie Robinson was hand pick because of his temperament.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I think the story goes, Jackie Robinson was hand pick because of his temperament.

No joking, that in itself Is racist. Too bad. They wanted Uncle Tom over the best player at the time.

 

[wicker]

Branch Rickey floated the idea he was starting a Negro League team to hide his true plan. His eye was on Roy Campanella. Campy didn't realize what Rickey was doing and declined the offer as he already had a Negro League team

 

[TJFAIRLIE]

No joking, that in itself Is racist. Too bad. They wanted Uncle Tom over the best player at the time.

It’s not racist to understand that player was going to take an absolute beating every day from the fans, media and players. They didn’t need an “Uncle Tom”, they needed someone who had the emotional stability to not put a gun in his mouth or take a bat to someone’s head

 

[TheFormula]

No joking, that in itself Is racist. Too bad. They wanted Uncle Tom over the best player at the time.

lol, Jackie Robinson was far from an Uncle Tom

 

[PittAU]

No joking, that in itself Is racist. Too bad. They wanted Uncle Tom over the best player at the time.

wow

 

[BFo8]

My understanding is that the official negro league records has Gibson at only 238 home runs. The other 500-700+ came during exhibition play (which negro league teams did a ton of exhibition games in their day). So Gibson doesn't automatically become the MLB's home run king.

You are correct, just like Satchel Paige will be given credit for 146 more wins, but not the many hundreds of others he supposedly won as there were little to no official records kept.

 

[cease10]

No joking, that in itself Is racist. Too bad. They wanted Uncle Tom over the best player at the time.

This is really a poor choice of words. Uncle Tom? Really!?

 

[wbrpanther]

No joking, that in itself Is racist. Too bad. They wanted Uncle Tom over the best player at the time.

Branch Rickey knew that for this "experiment" to work he needed a player who absolutely would not fight back. Jackie had to promise no retaliations for the first 2 years. Besides that, Gibson was over the hill by 1947

 

[wbrpanther]

MLB, as of today, will now recognize the Negro League as part of Major League Baseball.

so we have a new home run champ. Josh Gibson is now MLB’s greatest HR hitter and it’s not even close. His career total eclipses Barry Bonds by over 200. Of course Barry only begrudgingly called Pittsburgh home for part of his career.

Greatest hitters in major league history? I'll take Stan Musial and Honus Wagner over Bonds, who was a great player but achieved his home run stature on steroids. Besides he's not from Pittsburgh.

 

[Pitt79]

MLB, as of today, will now recognize the Negro League as part of Major League Baseball.

so we have a new home run champ. Josh Gibson is now MLB’s greatest HR hitter and it’s not even close. His career total eclipses Barry Bonds by over 200. Of course Barry only begrudgingly called Pittsburgh home for part of his career.

Not all of the purported stats count, a lot of Negro League games where considered barnstorming, like they played some local fire department team or something? So Gibson won't be credited with 800+ HRs, take a look at this website, this is probably closer to what will count.

http://www.seamheads.com/NegroLgs/history.php?tab=bat_basic_at

 

[Pitt79]

No joking, that in itself Is racist. Too bad. They wanted Uncle Tom over the best player at the time.

They purposely picked someone that would seem as white as possible in his personality, Robinson was a college graduate, UCLA, played college football and think he was a military officer in WW2 as well.

 

[ameoba defense]

I think the story goes, Jackie Robinson was hand pick because of his temperament.

Far from that. Robinson was well known as a hothead. It was very difficult for him not to blow up over his treatment. Robinson was chosen because he was smart well spoken and well educated. He didn't fit the negative stereotypes of the day.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

They purposely picked someone that would seem as white as possible in his personality, Robinson was a college graduate, UCLA, played college football and think he was a military officer in WW2 as well.

I think that’s a shame over the best and most deserving black player at the time. Gibson should have gotten his shot he was the best at that time.

 

[wolf0717]

MLB, as of today, will now recognize the Negro League as part of Major League Baseball.

so we have a new home run champ. Josh Gibson is now MLB’s greatest HR hitter and it’s not even close. His career total eclipses Barry Bonds by over 200. Of course Barry only begrudgingly called Pittsburgh home for part of his career.

So I guess Jackie Robinson's number will be un-retired since he is not the first African American in major league baseball.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

josh Gibson, from WIki, has 113 HRs (Negro and mexican leagues). Where is this 800+ number coming from.

Im curious, not debating. On a side note, my grandfather used to talk about gibson when i was small. he used to take my uncle to games when he was a kid and really said he was incredible..

 

[Upg bobcat]

josh Gibson, from WIki, has 113 HRs (Negro and mexican leagues). Where is this 800+ number coming from.

Im curious, not debating. On a side note, my grandfather used to talk about gibson when i was small. he used to take my uncle to games when he was a kid and really said he was incredible..

It's on his plaque in Cooperstown. Not sure where they got their number from.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

josh Gibson, from WIki, has 113 HRs (Negro and mexican leagues). Where is this 800+ number coming from.

Im curious, not debating. On a side note, my grandfather used to talk about gibson when i was small. he used to take my uncle to games when he was a kid and really said he was incredible..

Sounds exaggerated. Maybe @JGregor keeps the records. Hahaha

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

No joking, that in itself Is racist. Too bad. They wanted Uncle Tom over the best player at the time.

This is ironic, given your PantherLair track record, but one thing Robinson cannot be characterized as is an Uncle Tom.

Jackie Robinson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

An incident at PJC illustrated Robinson's impatience with authority figures he perceived as racist—a character trait that would resurface repeatedly in his life. On January 25, 1938, he was arrested after vocally disputing the detention of a black friend by police.[33] Robinson received a two-year suspended sentence, but the incident—along with other rumored run-ins between Robinson and police—gave Robinson a reputation for combativeness in the face of racial antagonism.

An event on July 6, 1944, derailed Robinson's military career.[60] While awaiting results of hospital tests on the ankle he had injured in junior college, Robinson boarded an Army bus with a fellow officer's wife; although the Army had commissioned its own unsegregated bus line, the bus driver ordered Robinson to move to the back of the bus.[61][62][63] Robinson refused. The driver backed down, but after reaching the end of the line, summoned the military police, who took Robinson into custody.[61][64] When Robinson later confronted the investigating duty officer about racist questioning by the officer and his assistant, the officer recommended Robinson be court-martialed.[61][65]

After Robinson's commander in the 761st, Paul L. Bates, refused to authorize the legal action,[66] Robinson was summarily transferred to the 758th Battalion—where the commander quickly consented to charge Robinson with multiple offenses, including, among other charges, public drunkenness, even though Robinson did not drink.[61][67]

By the time of the court-martial in August 1944, the charges against Robinson had been reduced to two counts of insubordination during questioning.[61] Robinson was acquitted by an all-white panel of nine officers.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Josh Gibson should have been the first black player in mlb. He was five times the player as Robinson.

If the argument is that the barrier should have been broken when Gibson was in his prime, then yes. Robinson wasn't even in John Muir High School yet.

 

[rmf05]

This is really a poor choice of words. Uncle Tom? Really!?

Yeah. Talk about ironic.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

josh Gibson, from WIki, has 113 HRs (Negro and mexican leagues). Where is this 800+ number coming from.

Im curious, not debating. On a side note, my grandfather used to talk about gibson when i was small. he used to take my uncle to games when he was a kid and really said he was incredible..

The reason why Gibson has so few official home runs (and for instance Stachel Paige has so few pitching wins) is because a lot of the games that those teams played were not official league games, so any stats from those games don't count. The Grays might play something like 80 league games in a league season, but then play another 50 or 60 or more games exhibition games.

The 113 home runs came from official league games. The 800 home runs come from all the games he played, the league games, the exhibition games and the barnstorming games that they played most years with and against white players. And no one has any real idea exactly how many of those there might have been.

 

[Upg bobcat]

This is ironic, given your PantherLair track record, but one thing Robinson cannot be characterized as is an Uncle Tom.

I took a class in college about sports history and sociology, and the one thing I remember from the class about Jackie Robinson is that many of his contemporaries viewed him as that. Obviously whether he was one or not is another story, but he certainly got labeled as one.

 

[jtownknowitall]

Jackie Robinson supported Richard Nixon over John Kennedy in 1960.

 

[BFo8]

Robinson probably a little overrated as a baseball player, but way underrated as an athlete. 4 sport star at UCLA and was spectacular in 3 of those sports in college, with baseball being the exception.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Jackie Robinson supported Richard Nixon over John Kennedy in 1960.

Of course, it was not until Kennedy actually took office that the Democratic Party began to be clearly identified with the cause of civil rights (what with the segregationist Dixiecrats still residing within that party). By Nixon's next run at the presidency in 1968 (when he courted those very segregationists with his "Southern Strategy"), Robinson would break with Nixon.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I think you can probably claim Josh Gibson as the best catcher of all time.

If you were starting an ALL TIME baseball team, I would pick Gibson as my catcher over Bench, Berra, Pudge and Carter.

 

[Pitt79]

The reason why Gibson has so few official home runs (and for instance Stachel Paige has so few pitching wins) is because a lot of the games that those teams played were not official league games, so any stats from those games don't count. The Grays might play something like 80 league games in a league season, but then play another 50 or 60 or more games exhibition games.

The 113 home runs came from official league games. The 800 home runs come from all the games he played, the league games, the exhibition games and the barnstorming games that they played most years with and against white players. And no one has any real idea exactly how many of those there might have been.

This page is supposedly the Negro LEAGUE stats http://www.seamheads.com/NegroLgs/history.php?tab=bat_basic_at

 

[PittAU]

Bingo Long finally gets his due!

 

[quip]

I think that’s a shame over the best and most deserving black player at the time. Gibson should have gotten his shot he was the best at that time.

Not in 1947 he wasn’t.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

This page is supposedly the Negro LEAGUE stats http://www.seamheads.com/NegroLgs/history.php?tab=bat_basic_at

Not supposedly, that page is the best compilation of Negro League stats anyone has ever done. That is the work that (in part) got MLB to make the announcement they did this week.

But that's exactly the point. Look at Josh Gibson's numbers. The most games he played in any one official season is 94, and that was in Mexico. The second most games he played in a season was 78, and the third was 70. He only had more than 294 plate appearances in a season twice. Because those are only numbers from official games. In that year that he played 94 games in Mexico he may very well have played another 40 or 50 barnstorming in the US. There were years when he (and the other top Negro League players) played more games on the barnstorming tours than they did in their official seasons. Because they could make more money that way.

 

[BFo8]

Not in 1947 he wasn’t.

Correct, obviously Gibson was dead by then.

He struggled with alcoholism throughout his career and died very young from a brain tumor.

 

[BFo8]

Josh Gibson should have been the first black player in mlb. He was five times the player as Robinson.

Semi annoying that people always say Robinson was the first black player in the major leagues. Before the American League even existed the American Association was the major league counterpart to the National League, so that makes Fleet Walker the first to break the color barrier with Toledo of the AA. I believe his brother Welday was the second.

Here’s another historical footnote that’s aggravating, Jackie Robinson gets all the credit and glory for being the trailblazer, but Larry Doby basically accomplished the same thing at the same time. The 2 leagues were basically separate entities at the time with no interleague play, so Doby faced the exact same prejudices as Robinson did . Doby made his first appearance only a few weeks after Jackie Robinson, but is almost never mentioned as being on an equal level as a pioneer in the sport.