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OT: Santa Monica

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Aug 23, 2023
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Just saw this pop up on Reddit. Third Street Promenade


I don’t recall who lived there and now lives in Spain but I thought this was an interesting opinion piece.

My wife and I saw Harvey Keitel walk past an Italian restaurant we were dining at. It was a pretty posh place.
 
Just saw this pop up on Reddit. Third Street Promenade


I don’t recall who lived there and now lives in Spain but I thought this was an interesting opinion piece.

My wife and I saw Harvey Keitel walk past an Italian restaurant we were dining at. It was a pretty posh place.

I was in Santa Monica last summer and here's my thoughts:

Didnt notice any empty store-fronts. Town was packed. Had a hard time finding parking.

There were a dozen or so homeless people in that little park area between the beach and the street.

I cant compare it to years prior but for me, it was similar to any other popular tourist destination.
 
I was in Santa Monica last summer and here's my thoughts:

Didnt notice any empty store-fronts. Town was packed. Had a hard time finding parking.

There were a dozen or so homeless people in that little park area between the beach and the street.

I cant compare it to years prior but for me, it was similar to any other popular tourist destination.
Do you think anyone actually believes this?
 
Do you think anyone actually believes this?

I doubt it. Some idiots dont even believe I'm a Pitt fan or go to Pitt games even when I point out the video board stuff during timeouts. They think it was a lucky guess or I have some people feeding me information.

Santa Monica really isnt anything special. What sets California apart is its visual beauty but Santa Monica really isnt that. Its just that its the closest beach to downtown LA and it has that pier. The rest of it looks like any random Florida beach town. It did have a dozen homeless people but its not like there were hundreds of them all over the city. Just in that little park.
 
I was in Santa Monica last summer and here's my thoughts:

Didnt notice any empty store-fronts. Town was packed. Had a hard time finding parking.

There were a dozen or so homeless people in that little park area between the beach and the street.

I cant compare it to years prior but for me, it was similar to any other popular tourist destination.
Third Street definitely has empty storefronts and the article was specifically about 3rd street.
 
Third Street definitely has empty storefronts and the article was specifically about 3rd street.

Not sure which one that was or what to compare it to but it wasn't anything noticeable. I didnt notice if I was even on that street. Drove around for awhile looking for street parking but had to pay a fortune for a public lot. My point was really that it seemed like any random Florida beach town. No better, no worse. + a dozen homeless people in a small park.
 
Not sure which one that was or what to compare it to but it wasn't anything noticeable. I didnt notice if I was even on that street. Drove around for awhile looking for street parking but had to pay a fortune for a public lot. My point was really that it seemed like any random Florida beach town. No better, no worse. + a dozen homeless people in a small park.
It's called the 3rd St Promenade, but it's not a street, it's an outdoor shopping mall/esplanade. There's no way to not know that if you were there. From the sounds of it, you weren't.

And there are nearly 20 million people in that whole area so yeah parking is going to be limited and expensive.
 
Not sure which one that was or what to compare it to but it wasn't anything noticeable. I didnt notice if I was even on that street. Drove around for awhile looking for street parking but had to pay a fortune for a public lot. My point was really that it seemed like any random Florida beach town. No better, no worse. + a dozen homeless people in a small park.
Third Street Promenade would be like if they took the Waterfront and put it actually in Homestead proper and limited access to only people.

The homeless count per SantaMonica.gov was 926 in 2023. 2024 data to be released soon.

Not at all like any Florida beach town.
 
Miles Warner has been talking b.s. about Santa Monica for years. He tried to run for City Council a few years ago but couldn’t get enough signatures to qualify. It only takes 90 signatures.

I was back there from November 1 to January 10 to sell my house. I went to the Promenade at least half a dozen times. It was always busy, particularly near Christmas. The claim that 20 to 30% of the stores are unoccupied is absurd. There were a few stores that were in the process of being remodeled for new tenants, but other than that I don’t remember any empty storefronts.

Let me point out one claim he makes that is laughable to anyone familiar with the city: That zoning has made it more difficult for restaurants and bars. No bars ever have been allowed on the Promenade although some of the restaurants have liquor licenses. There are bars adjacent to the Promenade but the clientele of the Promenade is not one that makes nearby bars full.

As for restaurants, the Promenade used to have quite a few. However, no matter how profitable a restaurant is, it doesn’t generate the same cash flow as a trendy retail store. The result was that restaurants started moving out whenever the landlord raised the rent. Because the Promenade always had been envisioned as a place where the evenings would be dominated by movie theatres and restaurants, that created a problem. So the City revised the zoning ordinance for the Promenade to require a certain square footage of restaurants; in other words, the city zoning has increased — not decreased — the number of restaurants on the Promenade. It still isn’t as many as back in the early days, but it’s more than it was 10 years ago.

Still, the rents are high and only high volume restaurants can make it there. It’s not a place geared for high end restaurants.

So, how far do you have to travel from the Promenade to find really good restaurants? The answer is one block. Second Street and particularly Fourth Street had, when I was last there, numerous restaurants including some owned by the top celebrity chefs in LA. It’s a one block walk. In fact, if you park in any of the public parking garages which are located on those two streets (since cars aren’t allowed on the Promenade) you are closer to those restaurants than you are to the Promenade.

In the past, Warner claimed that the Promenade was dying. His proof was there were no banks on it. There aren’t. Never have been. They don’t generate enough income and if they did aren’t allowed by the zoning. Where are they? There are at least four on Fourth Street. One block away. (The Promenade used to be Third Street.)

Yes, there are homeless people in Santa Monica. There actually are enough beds in shelters like Clare House to shelter all or almost all of them, but some won’t go to shelters. The City provides free lunch on the lawn of City Hall every Wednesday. A lot of them don’t go. Nothing can be done about that. In all the time I lived in Santa Monica, 1981-2022, I had two “encounters” with homeless people neither of which were that serious. And I lived less than a block from the methadone clinic at St. John’s Hospital. Warner is part of a group which posts doomsday posts on message boards and other forums every time a homeless person is suspected if a crime as if it is a sign the Apocalypse is around the corner.

As for his picture of the street, I don’t know what time he took it —probably very early morning before any stores were open — but I didn’t see a single empty or boarded-up storefront in it.
 
It's called the 3rd St Promenade, but it's not a street, it's an outdoor shopping mall/esplanade. There's no way to not know that if you were there. From the sounds of it, you weren't.

And there are nearly 20 million people in that whole area so yeah parking is going to be limited and expensive.

Yea, just looked it up and we didnt go to this promenade. Just the beach, pier, and a few shops downtown. Was a 1 day thing. Did other sites in SoCal on other days.
 
On the pier, the 70+ y.o. Guy singing songs karaoke style was a sight to behold. His rendition of Like a Virgin was hilarious.
 
My top 5 favorite Harvey Keitel characters: Not top 5 movies but characters he played.

5/ Smoke shop owner in "Smoke" Very under rated movie

4/ the devil in Little Nikki. I know, painful movie but he was good in it.

3/ Mr. White. no brainer, reservoir dogs

2/ the dad in Dusk til Dawn

1/ Ray in copland. played a great badass bad guy in that movie..



I couldnt include taxi driver. probably should be on the list but man the pimp of a little jodie foster is just horrible to watch. i guess that is the point of the character so i could be wrong on here.

Wolf in Pulp was an over rated character imo.
 
Use to love to hang out at the Regal Beagle with my buddies Jack and Larry.
Remember when we were there having a drink and some weird dude in a ridiculous outfit came in and arrogantly said he was taking over management of the Roper’s apartment building? As if everyone in the place is supposed to know what/where that building is. He ordered a high end scotch, because he’s supposedly some kind of high roller, and then had the bartender add about 12 ounces of root beer to it? And then the dude started hitting on all the women and scared them away? What a weirdo. I think he was originally from Morgantown or something.
 
Remember when we were there having a drink and some weird dude in a ridiculous outfit came in and arrogantly said he was taking over management of the Roper’s apartment building? As if everyone in the place is supposed to know what/where that building is. He ordered a high end scotch, because he’s supposedly some kind of high roller, and then had the bartender add about 12 ounces of root beer to it? And then the dude started hitting on all the women and scared them away? What a weirdo. I think he was originally from Morgantown or something.
Shocked Threes Company GIF
 
Remember when we were there having a drink and some weird dude in a ridiculous outfit came in and arrogantly said he was taking over management of the Roper’s apartment building? As if everyone in the place is supposed to know what/where that building is. He ordered a high end scotch, because he’s supposedly some kind of high roller, and then had the bartender add about 12 ounces of root beer to it? And then the dude started hitting on all the women and scared them away? What a weirdo. I think he was originally from Morgantown or something.
eef934dc9fd9fd57c621ac11000d25c2.jpg
 
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I know exactly where anlmost every one of those stores is. Every one of the stores they closed was closed because the property has been purchased and the developers are going to build new, bigger buildings on them. This is happening because the City Council caved in to developers and amended the zoning ordinance to allow anywhere from 5 to 9 story buildings on the main commercial streets. The prior height limit was 3 stories. I was President of Mid-City Neighbors, one of the neighborhood's groups, and that change was opposed by all 7 neighborhood groups. But, those big developers write big campaign checks and it passed 4-3.

I think those boarded up stores are a sign of a decline in the quality of life in Santa Monica, but not because of the homeless or crime rates. They are essentially allowing 6-10 times the number of cars for these new developments than were allowed under the old zoning laws. Traffic has been getting worse and worse for years. They rate the major intersections in the City from A to F with F being worse. Almost every major intersection already is an F. Every time a new project is proposed there is a mandatory traffic impact analysis. If the building will make traffic worse, the developer must propose “mitigation” measures which will reduce the traffic to its current level.

The traffic mitigation measures are a joke. I lived on 22nd Street. A block away on 23rd Street a development was proposed that would significantly increase traffic on 23rd Street going south toward Cloverfield Blvd and the Santa Monica Freeway. The developer proposed adding a left turn only lane in 23rd Street at Santa Monica Blvd which they said their study showed would mitigate 100% of the impact.

Two big problems with that: (1) Three different projects used the same mitigation measure. Obviously the left turn lane wouldn’t mitigate the extra traffic from three Large new buildings, but the City let all 3 developers use it. (2)There isn’t room for a left turn lane. The street isn’t wide enough and can’t be widened. If two cars are next to each other going south, then no cars on Santa Monica Blvd which want to turn into 23rd Street going north (and a lot do) can make the turn.

We actually put two cars there as if there was a left turn lane one evening and filmed it to show how absurd the idea was. We had an off-duty policeman there to keep irritated motorists from attacking our drivers. And, he was busy. Not one car could make that right turn in the 30 minutes we filmed. We handed each motorist who tried a flyer explaining what we were doing and how their commute would be affected if the new projects were approved.

This was about 8 years ago. The City approved all 3 projects finding that each had fully mitigated traffic issues. No left turn lane ever was added. The City knew full well it wouldn’t work. I stopped driving in 2020 for a few reasons but one important one was that the traffic in Santa Monica was unbearable.

People wrongly think that Santa Monica has a leftist, anti-capitalist government. Remember “the Republic of Santa Monica” talk. But, the majority of the Council no matter what their political persuasion might be are people with pet projects, whether they be more environmentally friendly parks, more shelters and aid for the homeless, counseling centers for almost anything you can think of, etc. These take money and they want to maximize revenues with bigger buildings.

By the way, the closed Rite Aid is on Pico Blvd and has been closed for at least two years when they opened a new Rite Aid three blocks away. The old one is in a terrible location and they have had trouble finding a buyer.
 
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serious question for you and FK, why in the sam hell didnt Jack Tripper close the deal with Lana. She wanted him, made endless advances at him and he always pushed her away..

Always pissed me off.



Pin on Three's Company's Company

Could you imagine though? I think she’d keep things so busy that my guy would stop working at some point. Even in my younger days. 😮
 
i saw everclear at station square about 20 years ago, back when they had that tent down there before the soccer field went up. then the bud light dude came out, the kid that used to wear the white helmet with no facemask. i forget the bud light ad at the time but it was the best part of the concert..
 
Here's a recent video documenting the current state of Santa Monica and the Promenade:




Very misleading. I have been there and its your normal popular beach town with 20 homeless people in a park across the street from the beach. What type of crime are they using to label it as the most unsafe city? Its a beach/party town so you are going to have drunken bar fights. Its not like the Bloods and the Crips are riding through shooting up the place.
 
I think it used to be a little better in the past. If I am being honest, too many Italians are in the area now. You do the math.
 
My top 5 favorite Harvey Keitel characters: Not top 5 movies but characters he played.

5/ Smoke shop owner in "Smoke" Very under rated movie

4/ the devil in Little Nikki. I know, painful movie but he was good in it.

3/ Mr. White. no brainer, reservoir dogs

2/ the dad in Dusk til Dawn

1/ Ray in copland. played a great badass bad guy in that movie..



I couldnt include taxi driver. probably should be on the list but man the pimp of a little jodie foster is just horrible to watch. i guess that is the point of the character so i could be wrong on here.

Wolf in Pulp was an over rated character imo.
You're missing a big one:

images
 
I saw a headline that the governor was now going to expel all of the homeless, but I didn’t read it because I figured that it was a temporary politically advantageous thing to do. So maybe those 20 homeless are gone now.
 
What's with the weird German narrator dressed like he's sitting upper deck at a WWF event ?
He's just a You Tuber. His background is that he grew up in Germany dreaming of coming to Los Angeles to live the American Dream. He has been a long time business owner and resident in Venice Beach. He's very well known in that area. For his You tube channel he tours different areas of Los Angeles. Many times the tours relate to current events or to Hollywood movie/tv filming locations. he also documents his own life.

He has done a bunch of documenting homeless in different areas of Los Angeles in a very apolitical way. Still some have pushed back because the video evidence doesn't support the narrative. One instance was when the Rams hosted the Superbowl and the city moved the homeless out of the path from the airport to the stadium out of view of visitors.
 
Very misleading. I have been there and its your normal popular beach town with 20 homeless people in a park across the street from the beach. What type of crime are they using to label it as the most unsafe city? Its a beach/party town so you are going to have drunken bar fights. Its not like the Bloods and the Crips are riding through shooting up the place.
He is not claiming that, it was a news story. since you're lazy:


here's a more recent news story:


You "have been there" is an anecdote. While you may very well be right, you visiting for a couple hours is not evidence of anything.
 
I know exactly where anlmost every one of those stores is. Every one of the stores they closed was closed because the property has been purchased and the developers are going to build new, bigger buildings on them. This is happening because the City Council caved in to developers and amended the zoning ordinance to allow anywhere from 5 to 9 story buildings on the main commercial streets. The prior height limit was 3 stories. I was President of Mid-City Neighbors, one of the neighborhood's groups, and that change was opposed by all 7 neighborhood groups. But, those big developers write big campaign checks and it passed 4-3.

I think those boarded up stores are a sign of a decline in the quality of life in Santa Monica, but not because of the homeless or crime rates. They are essentially allowing 6-10 times the number of cars for these new developments than were allowed under the old zoning laws. Traffic has been getting worse and worse for years. They rate the major intersections in the City from A to F with F being worse. Almost every major intersection already is an F. Every time a new project is proposed there is a mandatory traffic impact analysis. If the building will make traffic worse, the developer must propose “mitigation” measures which will reduce the traffic to its current level.

The traffic mitigation measures are a joke. I lived on 22nd Street. A block away on 23rd Street a development was proposed that would significantly increase traffic on 23rd Street going south toward Cloverfield Blvd and the Santa Monica Freeway. The developer proposed adding a left turn only lane in 23rd Street at Santa Monica Blvd which they said their study showed would mitigate 100% of the impact.

Two big problems with that: (1) Three different projects used the same mitigation measure. Obviously the left turn lane wouldn’t mitigate the extra traffic from three Large new buildings, but the City let all 3 developers use it. (2)There isn’t room for a left turn lane. The street isn’t wide enough and can’t be widened. If two cars are next to each other going south, then no cars on Santa Monica Blvd which want to turn into 23rd Street going north (and a lot do) can make the turn.

We actually put two cars there as if there was a left turn lane one evening and filmed it to show how absurd the idea was. We had an off-duty policeman there to keep irritated motorists from attacking our drivers. And, he was busy. Not one car could make that right turn in the 30 minutes we filmed. We handed each motorist who tried a flyer explaining what we were doing and how their commute would be affected if the new projects were approved.

This was about 8 years ago. The City approved all 3 projects finding that each had fully mitigated traffic issues. No left turn lane ever was added. The City knew full well it wouldn’t work. I stopped driving in 2020 for a few reasons but one important one was that the traffic in Santa Monica was unbearable.

People wrongly think that Santa Monica has a leftist, anti-capitalist government. Remember “the Republic of Santa Monica” talk. But, the majority of the Council no matter what their political persuasion might be are people with pet projects, whether they be more environmentally friendly parks, more shelters and aid for the homeless, counseling centers for almost anything you can think of, etc. These take money and they want to maximize revenues with bigger buildings.

By the way, the closed Rite Aid is on Pico Blvd and has been closed for at least two years when they opened a new Rite Aid three blocks away. The old one is in a terrible location and they have had trouble finding a buyer.
If they are all being torn down, why are they all available for lease? By any measure, that is a lot of empty storefronts and I would suggest that it can't all be explained away. How is the mall doing in that area, if it's still there.

What I can tell you is that tourism in that area is WAY down from what it once was. Venice along the beach, for example, is basically all shut down. The days of all the vendors lining up there are gone too.
 
He is not claiming that, it was a news story. since you're lazy:


here's a more recent news story:


You "have been there" is an anecdote. While you may very well be right, you visiting for a couple hours is not evidence of anything.

Again, what determines "least safe?" Overall crime reports? Violent crime? Is this just bar fights and public urination citations?
 
Again, what determines "least safe?" Overall crime reports? Violent crime? Is this just bar fights and public urination citations?
Maybe watch the story to see if it answers those questions. And it was one of the least safe in CA, not the least safe anywhere.
 
My top 5 favorite Harvey Keitel characters: Not top 5 movies but characters he played.

5/ Smoke shop owner in "Smoke" Very under rated movie

4/ the devil in Little Nikki. I know, painful movie but he was good in it.

3/ Mr. White. no brainer, reservoir dogs

2/ the dad in Dusk til Dawn

1/ Ray in copland. played a great badass bad guy in that movie..



I couldnt include taxi driver. probably should be on the list but man the pimp of a little jodie foster is just horrible to watch. i guess that is the point of the character so i could be wrong on here.

Wolf in Pulp was an over rated character imo.
Overrated? Maybe.

Still great? Yes.
 
I know exactly where anlmost every one of those stores is. Every one of the stores they closed was closed because the property has been purchased and the developers are going to build new, bigger buildings on them. This is happening because the City Council caved in to developers and amended the zoning ordinance to allow anywhere from 5 to 9 story buildings on the main commercial streets. The prior height limit was 3 stories. I was President of Mid-City Neighbors, one of the neighborhood's groups, and that change was opposed by all 7 neighborhood groups. But, those big developers write big campaign checks and it passed 4-3.

I think those boarded up stores are a sign of a decline in the quality of life in Santa Monica, but not because of the homeless or crime rates. They are essentially allowing 6-10 times the number of cars for these new developments than were allowed under the old zoning laws. Traffic has been getting worse and worse for years. They rate the major intersections in the City from A to F with F being worse. Almost every major intersection already is an F. Every time a new project is proposed there is a mandatory traffic impact analysis. If the building will make traffic worse, the developer must propose “mitigation” measures which will reduce the traffic to its current level.

The traffic mitigation measures are a joke. I lived on 22nd Street. A block away on 23rd Street a development was proposed that would significantly increase traffic on 23rd Street going south toward Cloverfield Blvd and the Santa Monica Freeway. The developer proposed adding a left turn only lane in 23rd Street at Santa Monica Blvd which they said their study showed would mitigate 100% of the impact.

Two big problems with that: (1) Three different projects used the same mitigation measure. Obviously the left turn lane wouldn’t mitigate the extra traffic from three Large new buildings, but the City let all 3 developers use it. (2)There isn’t room for a left turn lane. The street isn’t wide enough and can’t be widened. If two cars are next to each other going south, then no cars on Santa Monica Blvd which want to turn into 23rd Street going north (and a lot do) can make the turn.

We actually put two cars there as if there was a left turn lane one evening and filmed it to show how absurd the idea was. We had an off-duty policeman there to keep irritated motorists from attacking our drivers. And, he was busy. Not one car could make that right turn in the 30 minutes we filmed. We handed each motorist who tried a flyer explaining what we were doing and how their commute would be affected if the new projects were approved.

This was about 8 years ago. The City approved all 3 projects finding that each had fully mitigated traffic issues. No left turn lane ever was added. The City knew full well it wouldn’t work. I stopped driving in 2020 for a few reasons but one important one was that the traffic in Santa Monica was unbearable.

People wrongly think that Santa Monica has a leftist, anti-capitalist government. Remember “the Republic of Santa Monica” talk. But, the majority of the Council no matter what their political persuasion might be are people with pet projects, whether they be more environmentally friendly parks, more shelters and aid for the homeless, counseling centers for almost anything you can think of, etc. These take money and they want to maximize revenues with bigger buildings.

By the way, the closed Rite Aid is on Pico Blvd and has been closed for at least two years when they opened a new Rite Aid three blocks away. The old one is in a terrible location and they have had trouble finding a buyer.
Dear Mike412 -
You have unprecedented knowledge of Santa Monica... and I recall you responding to me once that you got involved in the LA entertainment scene many moons back... maybe as an attorney/manager?

I alit in Santa Monica in July of 1983, the Reagan Recession forcing me to look outside of Pittsburgh for a job of interest [Paul Volker was wringing inflation out of the economy and setting up the fabulous run of the rest of the 1980's under Ronaldus Magnus (President R. Reagan)], although I was too young and apolitical to pay much attention to that back then. Alas, I was hired out of Pitt Engineering by McDonnell-Douglas down in Long Beach, and had some pals that had moved to Santa Monica (nearer Westwood), and drove out with another Pitt engineering grad buddy of theirs. He didn't have a job yet, worked for a roofer, met Kurt Russell and Goldy Hawn doing their house roof, and worked as their "house boy" a couple of years!

I had a blast out in SoCal and became lifetime pals with the longtime PR Director of the Lakers. He and a bunch of cats I met then are still great buddies. While I lived for a few years in the Long Beach/Seal Beach area, I always loved Santa Monica... especially Ye Olde Kings Head Pub... best fish 'n chips and darts in the world. I think Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys frequented Santa Monica just before I got there... boozy and messed up and ultimately drowned in Marina Del Ray.
 
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