OT: Shelty needs fired today
- Thread starter ratking17
- Start date
I hope Skenes is enjoying Livvy Dunne because he can't be enjoying playing for this filthy Nutsack garbage. He should hold out next year and demand a trade. This team is a huge dead-end for anyone's career.
I mean it's an organizational rot. All the way from the owner down.
The Pirates have scored 23 runs in their last 3 games
They're 0-3 in those games with a negative 18 run differential.
Hilarious. I told y'all 5 years ago you were being scammed. There was no 5 year plan. They would not get better through drafting tand their farm team. They might actually be worse than 5 years ago! Nutting does not care that they lose. He probably makes more money when they do. Welfare queen.
The entire organization is a failure. Top to bottom. Enjoy Livvy Dunne while you can. I give Skenes less than 3 more full years here.
They're 0-3 in those games with a negative 18 run differential.
Hilarious. I told y'all 5 years ago you were being scammed. There was no 5 year plan. They would not get better through drafting tand their farm team. They might actually be worse than 5 years ago! Nutting does not care that they lose. He probably makes more money when they do. Welfare queen.
The entire organization is a failure. Top to bottom. Enjoy Livvy Dunne while you can. I give Skenes less than 3 more full years here.
Shelton should be fired but....
Just looking at this game, the relievers that blew the game were Nicolas/Chapman/Bednar.....those are three of our best relievers, so not sure who you wanted Shelton to pitch instead. There were much worse bullpen decisions in other games. Unless you want to say Bednar should be removed as closer by now, which I can get behind, but that likely just would have changed the order of the mayhem to something like Bednar/Nicolas/Chapman because I am not sure you drop Bednar too far down the list given what we have available.
Just looking at this game, the relievers that blew the game were Nicolas/Chapman/Bednar.....those are three of our best relievers, so not sure who you wanted Shelton to pitch instead. There were much worse bullpen decisions in other games. Unless you want to say Bednar should be removed as closer by now, which I can get behind, but that likely just would have changed the order of the mayhem to something like Bednar/Nicolas/Chapman because I am not sure you drop Bednar too far down the list given what we have available.
You can't blame Skenes one bit for wanting out of town as soon as possible. As the starting pitcher he gives up 2 earned runs in 5 innings, and in the final score, the Cubs scored 14. Unbelievable.
My exact message in April....its not anyone but Nutting....not enough good players....no development...etc.
https://pittsburgh.forums.rivals.com/threads/ot-pirates.190579/post-3504787
Here's me from July 2021: "The rebuild is irrelevant...Don't wait until 2025 to learn something that should have been learned 6 years ago."
Here's me from July 2021: "The rebuild is irrelevant...Don't wait until 2025 to learn something that should have been learned 6 years ago."
41 runs in a three game series is the most runs the Pirates have given up in a three game series at home since, well, ever.
It’s mid-August the the Pirates are in the midst of their annual late summer swoon.
What’s old is new again.
Some day the brain dead yinzers who follow this team may wise-up, but, no person with a brain cell will be holding their breath for that phenomenon to materialize.
To be fair, 142 years of baseball is a small sample size.
It's ashame that the loyal Pirates fans suffer and have to endure this crap season after season.
I dont even like the Pirates but I hate Skenes's Little League pitch count. He's going to here 5 years. Throw him until his arm falls off. If they are so worried about getting good value for him from the Yankees in Year 3 or Year 4, throwing extra pitches isnt going to devalue him THAT much.
I do. They are saving his arm to get a good value when they trade him to the Yankees in Year 3 or Year 4. As if the Yankees are going to give them far less just because he pitches an extra inning or 2 every game. And even if they do, so what? What are the Pirates going to do with these great prospects the Yankees give them? They arent going to win so what's it matter? Throw Skenes until his arm falls off. His future isnt in Pittsburgh.
Ever since Sid break slid home in 97, the franchise stopped trying at all.
I understand folks just like baseball and want the home team to be good .
But , after 25 years of indifference - despite management and ownership changes -
How can anyone still be upset they lose so regularly ?
Well the brightside is this crash likely will cost Sheltie and his crew their jobs. But rinse, repeat. Hire a bonafide manager, not a manager in training on the cheap. The only success they have had in 30 years is when they hired Clint Hurdle, who while not Casey Stengel, at least was a MLB Manager.
Jim Tracey was a bonafide manager and flamed out also. Hurdle caught lightning in a bottle that Burnett still had a lot of gas in his tank and was the leader the team desperately needed. Another crew would still all spout the Nutting corporate line, not much hope with him running the show.
I already said that you had no idea what you were talking about. You didn't need to prove my point.
To be fair, I don't like pitch counts either.
Prior to the early 80's, talented pitchers would complete 20-30 games per year (Hunter, Blyleven, Lolich, Jenkins, etc..). It was fun to watch a pitcher gut it out and pitch through adversity and complete a game. A relief pitcher was usually a washed up aging starter, Today they are "specialists" A pitching duel is a rare thing to watch anymore.
One of my happiest memories growing up was watching the 7th Game of the 1971 World Series. Steve Blass took the mound for the 9th inning after giving up a run in the 8th and throwing 96 pitches. He closed out the game and won the series. That would NEVER happen today.
Every athlete in every sport has gotten bigger, stronger and faster, except baseball pitchers. We've gone backwards. Pitchers would never be pulled while throwing a no-hitter. Today it'd become routine.
The strategy is what made baseball fun. Now, it's a lost art. Managers just looks at analytics to manage the game.
Baseball pitchers are most certainly (on the average) bigger, stronger and faster than they were 40 years ago. Or any time in baseball history, for that matter.
And that's the problem. Pretty much everyone can throw a fastball at least in the low 90s now, and many are in the mid to upper 90s. And arms simply are not meant to handle that sort of stress. And it doesn't just happen once, it happens over and over and over again.
If you want pitching to go back to the way that it was, make a rule that any pitch over, say, 92 mph is an automatic ball. Forty years ago, for nearly every pitcher in the league, that would have never come into play, not even once, in their entire career. Today, nearly every pitcher in the league would have to throttle back. It would make pitching much less stressful on the arms. Guys could pitch longer, in games and in seasons.
Of course they'd get the crap beat out of them on a regular basis too. But that would be a different "problem" that we could solve.
And that’s why .275 is the new .300. Fresh overpowering different arms coming at ya every at-bat.
I get it. Good points. But pitching is really a lost art.
Some of the very best pitchers of all time were not hard throwers: Spahn, Whitey Ford, Greg Maddox, Juan Marichal, Phil Niekro, Tommy John, Don Sutton etc… As Warren Spahn once said “ Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing”. Pitchers were taught “work fast, throw strikes, change speeds”
But unfortunately, young pitchers and the people coaching them are all about velocity.
The guy I marveled at was Pedro Martinez - cause the arm angels and spin he’d regularly use looked like his arm didn’t have any bones in it .
Granted he still touched 97 or so on his fastball in his prime.
Where more to your point Maddox topped out around 86.
He just had incredible command
I agree, that's the way that it is today.
Of course a large part of the reason for that is that everyone who looks at the numbers sees that clearly the best way (or perhaps it's better to say the easiest way) to get guys out is to throw harder and spin the ball more. A big part of that has to do with umpiring. Guys simply do not, for example, get strikes called on pitches that are four or five inches outside like guys like Maddux used to get routinely. And when you have to eventually throw strikes, if they aren't quality strikes they get hammered.
Glad someone said what’s been gnawing at me for the longest time. Maddox’s rep earned far too many called third strikes. And btw, anyone ever see a Pirate pitcher throw inside to Ian Happ? This guy digs in at the airport. Some kinda book Shelty has on him.
I thought it was comical on twitter and whatnot Pirates fans clammoring for trade deadline deals. I was screaming NOOOOOO. I knew we just arent ready for it. 2 of our 3 top pitchers are rookies, bound to hit a wall. We had no offense all year, we have a strong-ish minor league system. I think we should have just played it out, and been sellers... especially since there were not many sellers. Not saying we didnt make some good deals, the deals were fine, althought the over estimation of IKR is hilarious, he is batting like .218 for us since the trade, but if you ask a Pirate fan he is the best player on the team.
We should have moved Chapman, Rowdy, and whatever else we could have unloaded... probably not much else. We could have gotten bank for Chapman. Anyways, I would have preferred to load up prior to next year when we have 3 legit allstar calibre pitchers, we could add another, and move Ortiz to the pen, which he would be awesome at as the new set up guy (heck, proabably even as a closer) People yell about keeping Hayes, I think we should keep him and fire Andy Haines, the guy can hit when his stroke is good... I cant understand how a hitting coach cant see what he is doing wrong, it is obvious. Anyways, next year we can make those strides. I would prefer to have McAdoo. I still like Holderman and Mlody, we have potential next year. Keep Chapman here now. Maybe splash and get Max Fried?
We should have moved Chapman, Rowdy, and whatever else we could have unloaded... probably not much else. We could have gotten bank for Chapman. Anyways, I would have preferred to load up prior to next year when we have 3 legit allstar calibre pitchers, we could add another, and move Ortiz to the pen, which he would be awesome at as the new set up guy (heck, proabably even as a closer) People yell about keeping Hayes, I think we should keep him and fire Andy Haines, the guy can hit when his stroke is good... I cant understand how a hitting coach cant see what he is doing wrong, it is obvious. Anyways, next year we can make those strides. I would prefer to have McAdoo. I still like Holderman and Mlody, we have potential next year. Keep Chapman here now. Maybe splash and get Max Fried?
Where did they find this German dude? He has gotten absolutely teed off upon both times I've seen him pitch. I think an apt nickname would be "Hit"ler.
He actually has some talent, after all, he threw a perfect game last year. But mentally he is a wreck. Later on last year he showed up in the clubhouse before a game drunk, got into a fight with the manager, was throwing furniture around the clubhouse, and smashed a television.
The Pirates signed him to a minor league deal late in spring training and he had been with Indianapolis most of the year. A month or so ago he opted out of his contract to see if he could get on anyone's major league roster. No one else wanted him, so the Pirates resigned him to another minor league deal. And then with all the other relievers either hurt or sucking or both, they eventually decided to give him a chance in the majors.
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