OT: Shrinking high school football rosters
- Thread starter HOF Coach
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Six classifications was suppose to level the playing field for many schools. That was the intent. Travel increased, yes, but competition was supposed to be more equal. Small schools playing small schools. Erie football (minus) the bigger schools are terrible. The southern part of D-10 dominates the norther part of D-10. Again, minus the bigger schools.
Other sports such as soccer has soccer has had a negative effect.
Concussions are another big scare for parents to decide whether or not kids are allowed to play.
Successful football programs will always create the interest and have the number of kids. Farrell is a very small single A school. Highly successful program. State Champs last year and they have something like 50 kids graduating each year. They have around 35-40 kids on their team. Keep in mind they also sent 5 players last year to a D-1 school on a FULL ride. Incredible feat!!!
Other sports such as soccer has soccer has had a negative effect.
Concussions are another big scare for parents to decide whether or not kids are allowed to play.
Successful football programs will always create the interest and have the number of kids. Farrell is a very small single A school. Highly successful program. State Champs last year and they have something like 50 kids graduating each year. They have around 35-40 kids on their team. Keep in mind they also sent 5 players last year to a D-1 school on a FULL ride. Incredible feat!!!
Centennial High in Maryland is a very large school probably would be 6A in PA. They had to cancel their 2017 season because only 14 kids went out for football, over 80 went out for soccer that year. -that is a very soccer-centric area though, 2018 and 2019 they got up over 30 kids and had teams again.
A real problem with football is you really should have 40+ players or more, you gotta figure probably 1/4th to 1/3rd of the team will have some injuries, that's the nature of football.
A real problem with football is you really should have 40+ players or more, you gotta figure probably 1/4th to 1/3rd of the team will have some injuries, that's the nature of football.
If school mergers are any barometer, I'd imagine local politics, prejudices, stubbornness and other monkey wrenches tossed by adults would make consolidating teams problematic. But not impossible.
This is the part that annoys me. Those same parents have no issue letting their kids play soccer, and stats prove there are little difference in concussion rate between HS football and HS Soccer.
Other injuries yes, football surpasses soccer. Concussions no, they are similar rates between both sports.
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The difference really is the other injuries. The number of injured players on a football team is far more. It's practically impossible to play football through high school without getting injured in some way. I played in high school, I was injured every year, two out of 4 years it was enough that I missed weeks of practice and playing. I've been watching high school soccer the last few years, there are injuries, but nowhere near as common.
Co-ops are becoming more common in the rural areas of the state. One of the better AA programs, Berlin BrothersValley is a co-op. I see it more and more and it is talked about as I visit AD’s and HS coaches throughout the state.
All of those schools up there that have co-ops were all supporting full squads not that long ago. Myersdale was winning district titles pretty routinely and now they're playing at Berlin. I'd guess that you'd find the youth programs are suffering, too, and that just makes it worse.
A group of friends and I formed at Friday Night Football Club for high school football about 20 years ago. It's purpose was:
1. Social - We would select the county game of the week to attend and then go out afterwards to eat and drink.
2. Friendly competition. One guy would handicap all the regional games. We would then all email him our picks against the spot. Each week's winner was declared the "Football God" and each week's loser was declared the "Football Dog" (dog spelled opposite of god). This was for bragging rights only with the one with the most wins for the year receiving a trophy, similar to the Stanley Cup, to display for the year.
A trend that I have noticed over the 20 years was that there are so many mismatches each and every week now as compared to when we first started our club. Back then, a 20 point spot was rare as the teams were competitive. Now, each week has at least half of the games with spots of 35 points or more. We've even had a couple of games with 55 point spots and they were both covered by the favorite.
I shudder to think what high school football is going to look like 10 years from now.
1. Social - We would select the county game of the week to attend and then go out afterwards to eat and drink.
2. Friendly competition. One guy would handicap all the regional games. We would then all email him our picks against the spot. Each week's winner was declared the "Football God" and each week's loser was declared the "Football Dog" (dog spelled opposite of god). This was for bragging rights only with the one with the most wins for the year receiving a trophy, similar to the Stanley Cup, to display for the year.
A trend that I have noticed over the 20 years was that there are so many mismatches each and every week now as compared to when we first started our club. Back then, a 20 point spot was rare as the teams were competitive. Now, each week has at least half of the games with spots of 35 points or more. We've even had a couple of games with 55 point spots and they were both covered by the favorite.
I shudder to think what high school football is going to look like 10 years from now.
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The only thing that will save football in this state is school district consolidation which should be done anyway for reasons far greater than football. Even then football will never be the same as it was due to health risks and growth of soccer as a fall sport.
Might have to just be the really big schools that can get 50-60 kids to come out. Or maybe they'll have to go to 8 man football in the lower divisions so you can have a team with 20-30 kids.
There has been a powerful push by the football haters to kill youth football which hurts Hs football participation.
In Eastern Pa lots of families are moving in from nj and ny where lacrosse and soccer dominate.
High schools have added boys Lacrosse as a fall sport.
There have been people convincing parents not to sign kids up for youth football at football signups.
Not sure if this commercial is local but a group is running a tv commercial in Eastern PA showing s kid smoking a cigarette and it equates playing football to smoking.
Not to mention kids are less active these days.
"Like the grains of sand through the hour glass, so are the days of 'It's a man's world'. "
Those schools aren't co-opping because they have too few numbers. They are using the few kids from neighboring school districts that don't have football programs. Shade uses kids from Shanksville that want to play. Berlin and Meyersdale do the same. If a school uses kids from another school they have to count every boy in that district for classification. Berlin and Meyersdale play in the AA playoffs because of this. Shade plays in A because they remain under the limit.
There was a thread earlier this year in which Fairview in Erie County forfeited a game. Fairview while not the size of North Allegheny, is a solid 3A (not playing up) and is probably one of the more affluent suburbs of Erie.
Football is becoming more and more like boxing. The poorer kids will play because it is a path to college. The rich, white suburbanites don't have to.
Football is becoming more and more like boxing. The poorer kids will play because it is a path to college. The rich, white suburbanites don't have to.
Ummm...thanks for the rules but if it’s not numbers, why doesn’t Myersdale have a program? Wasn’t that long ago that they did.
Meyersdale does have a program with good numbers. But they also take kids from a smaller school that doesn’t have their own program. Berlin does the same. Do you understand now?
Shade high was involved in a weird predicament earlier this season. They had a pretty good QB transfer to ligonier valley. he wanted to play because Shade has low numbers. Shade contested the transfer making Kyle Silk ineligible are ligonier valley. So he left ligonier valley and transferred to kiski prep and was able to play immediately. And shade had to forfeit there season after a few games since they weren’t able to field a team.
That was United High School in Armagh. Turns out they have forfeited some games due to small numbers available. But not all of them. In fact they got a forfeit win tonite because Conemaugh Valley has been short of players.
My bad. Stand corrected. United was going to make a purchase from me but mentioned that and I deal with ligonier valley Berlin Richland. Got them all confused
AAA Oil City isn't having any problem with roster numbers, 47 and the kids from Cranberry, can try out and play, not many do. 9-0 this year.They also have a youth league thats popular. Franklin is a little lighter on roster 38, and kids from Rocky Grove can play there as well. The schools in NWPA are having no problems with roster numbers, Meadville, Titusville, Warren , Sharon, Grove City, from what iv'e seen.
Mapletown in Greene County only has 63 boys in grades 10-12.They didn't forfeit any games this year because they dressed 20-23 kids.They have forfeited games in previous years.They only have 28 total kids in the Senior Class.Tough to coach in situations like this,my hats off to these class A coached.
I meant Spring my bad but it's still an added and competing activity for hs boys.
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Or they play because the want to.
It's always been that way.
I graduated from a mostly upper middle class almost all white hs where most kids went to college.
We played and beat alot of inner city nj schools and were conference champs and ranked high in our nj state group.
We had an all white team and played football for scholarships and because we liked it.
I haven't payed attention to how HS sports are practiced since I was in HS a long time ago, so my perception may be off, but looking back I wonder why anyone played FB over cross country or soccer.
Primarily, because what I recall was seeing our HS soccer team actually play soccer in practice, and our CC team actually run during practice, while the FB team did everything but play FB...they did grass drills, sprints, tackling drills, blocking drills, but I never recall seeing them actually scrimmage much. I'm not saying htose drills are unimportant just that if you sign up to play FB, you want to play FB...espcially more than once a week. The soccer players were playing a soccer scrimmage every day and the runners were running every day.
That and who wants to listen to a 300 lb coach talk about hard work and discipline and scream at kids when the kids know that person couldn't sprint 25 yards without having a heart attack.
Primarily, because what I recall was seeing our HS soccer team actually play soccer in practice, and our CC team actually run during practice, while the FB team did everything but play FB...they did grass drills, sprints, tackling drills, blocking drills, but I never recall seeing them actually scrimmage much. I'm not saying htose drills are unimportant just that if you sign up to play FB, you want to play FB...espcially more than once a week. The soccer players were playing a soccer scrimmage every day and the runners were running every day.
That and who wants to listen to a 300 lb coach talk about hard work and discipline and scream at kids when the kids know that person couldn't sprint 25 yards without having a heart attack.
Our district (Carlynton) is always up for merger with someone else. I wish they'd just be done with it and put our half of the district (Crafton) in Montour. I don't want my kids to be bussed for half and hour each way but I also see how outdated our HS is even though we pay some of the highest tax rates in the county.
Our football program actually finished the year with three wins though which is a decent improvement.
Our football program actually finished the year with three wins though which is a decent improvement.
Teams rarely scrimmage after the start of the season. On any level. The injury factor is too great. And since those coaches don't play and are there to teach the kids, the kids will usually listen. If they want to play they aren't going to say "I really want to play but the coach can't run 25 yards".
Are homeschoolers allowed to tryout for their local team now? I new a kid that wanted to play 5-6 years ago but the city of Pittsburgh, the school district or the school itself said no. The school in question had no difficulty fielding teams.
I think all sports are seeing this in varying degreed. I have family in one of the fastest growing and biggest districts in GA. They've doubled in size in 10 years and now approach 500 in a graduating class. Their sports teams jave gone from mediocre to very good in all sports yet their participation numbers for all are only slightly higher and they have to recruit from their own student body to get kids out. They are also pretty open about recruiting (mildly) from other districts. I don't think that is seen negatively down there.
I think all sports are seeing this in varying degreed. I have family in one of the fastest growing and biggest districts in GA. They've doubled in size in 10 years and now approach 500 in a graduating class. Their sports teams jave gone from mediocre to very good in all sports yet their participation numbers for all are only slightly higher and they have to recruit from their own student body to get kids out. They are also pretty open about recruiting (mildly) from other districts. I don't think that is seen negatively down there.
Last night.....I was watching a bit of the Gateway/McKeesport game, and Pine Richland/NA. Also saw highlights from others. A kid was immobilized and carted off via stretcher and ambulance for McKeesport. The Gateway student section was escorted out of the stadium for wearing surgical masks. In the Jeannette game a kid was immobilized and carted off via stretcher in an ambulance.
And we wonder why kids and parents aren't having their kids play football? I know this is going to sound way old school, but kids don't tackle anymore. They all launch their bodies into the ball carrier often putting them in precarious positions and causing alot of head contact. It is amplified as they get up in level, players bigger, stronger faster. Also....I think the advancement of these passing offenses contribute to these high speed collisions. Teams throw the ball 20-40 times in high school. Used to be you were lucky they threw 10 passes. Running the ball involves contact, but it was so close, so many people inside the box it was more like rugby. Now these players get running starts and WHAM.
I know that is a bit tangential. But I do think the injuries and risk factor has played a significant part. Also, say in 1980, HS A had 500 boys in grades 10-12. There was no soccer. No lacrosse. There weren't many specialized athletes. Kids played sports according to season. Say 15% go out for the team. You have 75 kids, Sophs to Seniors, no Freshman or maybe 1-2 on the varsity. You have a full Varsity, a full JV and a full 9th grade team. Hell, I can remember back then, some schools had two 9th grade teams.
Now, fast forward. That HS A now has 250 boys in 10-12. 10% now go out because of other sports, fear of injuries and apathy. That is 25 kids. Then, you now add Freshman, 14 year olds who in some cases are thrown in against 17-18 year olds. So now you are at about 37 kids. And that is a decent sized 3A-4A school.
That's what's happening across all but the largest and growing suburbs.
I had to laugh at that scenario, because we actually had one of those 300-pound coaches who couldn't run 25 yards, but back when he was in shape he played for Bear Bryant (pre-Alabama), so he had some degree of credibility.
I think this is a bit overstated. I live in Eastern PA. Boys lacrosse is the fastest growing sport in the area by far, but from the Poconos South through the Lehigh valley and Bucks County region North of Philly, I don’t know of any high school fall lacrosse program. Not saying there isn’t, but I follow high school sports pretty closely in this region and haven’t seen any high school games played. There are traveling club teams, but football is still king here. Much of the growth with lacrosse in the Lehigh Valley is because of Lehigh’s strong D1 program. Kevin Cassese came in about 9 years ago as head coach and put a lot of effort into growing the youth programs. He is now recruiting from his own backyard. His philosophy is moreso geared toward the athlete. He was a standout QB in Long Island and appreciates the value of the multi-sport athlete. I think lacrosse is synergistic with football as wrestling has been and would be a mistake to include it in PIAA fall competition.
I don't think kids want to play as much. Maybe they're the ones not wanting to get hurt. It's no longer the thing to get Daddy's approval, you don't get more girls. Some kids in far-flung districts aren't getting home from practice til 8.
So many mismatches it got to point where powerhouse Southern Columbia changed its schedule mid season to play a better opponent. They still won 42-0
So many mismatches it got to point where powerhouse Southern Columbia changed its schedule mid season to play a better opponent. They still won 42-0
