OT: US Soccer needs to move to UEFA

[Sean Miller Fan]

Australia plays in Asia instead of Oceania

Israel plays in Europe instead of Asia
Surinama

Guyana, French Guinea, and Suriname play in CONCACAF instead of South America

There is some precedent to playing outside your region and I think the US could make a pretty good case for moving to UEFA based on cultural similarities and security and safety concerns playing in 3rd world Central American and Carribbean countries.

There will be drastic changes coming to US Soccer and I hope some smart people consider this one. The only reason to be in CONCACAF is because its easy to make the World Cup. However, the USA does not need to make the World Cup in order for people to care about soccer like they did 20 or 30 years ago. Moving to UEFA will allow MLS to sign big-name talent because they can sell Champions League and there would be greater interest. Making the WC would be much more difficult but making the 24 team European championship would be easier and would get big viewership in the US.

CONCACAF needs the USA way more than USA needs it. The US need to focus on creating interest in the sport through their domestic league but if it remains in CONCACAF, its going to be difficult to sign better players.

 

[HOF Coach]

"The Pilgrims came to America because they didn't like soccer." - Anonymous

 

[phxpanther]

Australia plays in Asia instead of Oceania

Israel plays in Europe instead of Asia
Surinama

Guyana, French Guinea, and Suriname play in CONCACAF instead of South America

There is some precedent to playing outside your region and I think the US could make a pretty good case for moving to UEFA based on cultural similarities and security and safety concerns playing in 3rd world Central American and Carribbean countries.

There will be drastic changes coming to US Soccer and I hope some smart people consider this one. The only reason to be in CONCACAF is because its easy to make the World Cup. However, the USA does not need to make the World Cup in order for people to care about soccer like they did 20 or 30 years ago. Moving to UEFA will allow MLS to sign big-name talent because they can sell Champions League and there would be greater interest. Making the WC would be much more difficult but making the 24 team European championship would be easier and would get big viewership in the US.

CONCACAF needs the USA way more than USA needs it. The US need to focus on creating interest in the sport through their domestic league but if it remains in CONCACAF, its going to be difficult to sign better players.

So the US can't beat 3rd world countries, and you want them to play European countries? And give me a break about safety concerns. More likely something serious happening in US or Europe

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Australia plays in Asia instead of Oceania

Israel plays in Europe instead of Asia
Surinama

Guyana, French Guinea, and Suriname play in CONCACAF instead of South America

There is some precedent to playing outside your region and I think the US could make a pretty good case for moving to UEFA based on cultural similarities and security and safety concerns playing in 3rd world Central American and Carribbean countries.

There will be drastic changes coming to US Soccer and I hope some smart people consider this one. The only reason to be in CONCACAF is because its easy to make the World Cup. However, the USA does not need to make the World Cup in order for people to care about soccer like they did 20 or 30 years ago. Moving to UEFA will allow MLS to sign big-name talent because they can sell Champions League and there would be greater interest. Making the WC would be much more difficult but making the 24 team European championship would be easier and would get big viewership in the US.

CONCACAF needs the USA way more than USA needs it. The US need to focus on creating interest in the sport through their domestic league but if it remains in CONCACAF, its going to be difficult to sign better players.

So the US can't beat 3rd world countries, and you want them to play European countries? And give me a break about safety concerns. More likely something serious happening in US or Europe

I didn't say so we can beat European countries. I said so we can grow MLS by playing in Champions League. If we're not going to make the WC, we might as well miss it out of UEFA.

 

[PeetWeet1]

I didn't say so we can beat European countries. I said so we can grow MLS by playing in Champions League. If we're not going to make the WC, we might as well miss it out of UEFA.

You are right. If the USA were in UEFA, he MLS would be a top league working five years.

Alas, we are not.

Realistic changes:
1. Get rid of the DP rule.
2. Make college soccer a headcount sport and follow the FIFA calendar.
3. Keep score at the U7and U8 levels.
4. Do all that we can to merge with/ cooperate with South America in both club and international competitions. Same time zones. They get money. We get better competition - at a cost of getting left at home more often.

 

[Swervin27]

You are right. If the USA were in UEFA, he MLS would be a top league working five years.

Alas, we are not.

Realistic changes:
1. Get rid of the DP rule.
2. Make college soccer a headcount sport and follow the FIFA calendar.
3. Keep score at the U7and U8 levels.
4. Do all that we can to merge with/ cooperate with South America in both club and international competitions. Same time zones. They get money. We get better competition - at a cost of getting left at home more often.

I don't understand the "not keeping score" comment. I've been to many youth games, someone puts the ball in the net, aka scores a goal, then they stop play, retrieve ball, put it in midfield and voila, game is back on.. How do you "NOT KEEP SCORE?" I mean, there are no scoreboards but that's more to do with resources. when U8 or U7 games means they don't keep score, what is the difference between that and keeping score?

Do both teams kid themselves thinking they won? Do parents not talk about the number of goals?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I didn't say so we can beat European countries. I said so we can grow MLS by playing in Champions League. If we're not going to make the WC, we might as well miss it out of UEFA.

You are right. If the USA were in UEFA, he MLS would be a top league working five years.

Alas, we are not.

Realistic changes:
1. Get rid of the DP rule.
2. Make college soccer a headcount sport and follow the FIFA calendar.
3. Keep score at the U7and U8 levels.
4. Do all that we can to merge with/ cooperate with South America in both club and international competitions. Same time zones. They get money. We get better competition - at a cost of getting left at home more often.

Keeping score at U8 isn't going to do anything. More realistic changes:

1. No CONCACAF players allowed in MLS unless they are making X salary. Inotherwords, if it is a true Central American star, sign him. Otherwise, we dont need him taking the spot of an American while he trains to beat us. This is madness.

2. Work more with local school district clubs to identify elite athletes starting at the U8 level. Have the local clubs give a listing of their top-level U8s and have them report their progress and why they quit. If they did quit, the local club must have a board member in charge of "selling soccer" to the family and reporting stats on how many players are retained.

3. At the U10 level, local school district clubs should take more active recruitment of football, baseball, and basketball players. The Boy Scouts came to my son's school to recruit. Why not your local club?

4. I agree with college soccer. I do think that will move to a Aug-May sport eventually.

However, if they managed to get into UEFA, that would do more than anything for the growth of the game here.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You are right. If the USA were in UEFA, he MLS would be a top league working five years.

Alas, we are not.

Realistic changes:
1. Get rid of the DP rule.
2. Make college soccer a headcount sport and follow the FIFA calendar.
3. Keep score at the U7and U8 levels.
4. Do all that we can to merge with/ cooperate with South America in both club and international competitions. Same time zones. They get money. We get better competition - at a cost of getting left at home more often.

I don't understand the "not keeping score" comment. I've been to many youth games, someone puts the ball in the net, aka scores a goal, then they stop play, retrieve ball, put it in midfield and voila, game is back on.. How do you "NOT KEEP SCORE?" I mean, there are no scoreboards but that's more to do with resources. when U8 or U7 games means they don't keep score, what is the difference between that and keeping score?

Do both teams kid themselves thinking they won? Do parents not talk about the number of goals?

There is no scoreboard but the kids, parents, and coaches all know the score. However, since there is no official score, winning and losing isn't stressed and its more of a "fun" atmosphere. So maybe he means they should be put in more higj stakes environments earlier. I cant say I agree or disagree but there are all kinds of tournaments that keep score at young ages out there. Just not the local in-house leagues.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

 

[Tony Zimmermans Dennys Adversary]

One USMNT thread wasn't good enough? Mods please merge. Thx.

 

[PeetWeet1]

I don't understand the "not keeping score" comment. I've been to many youth games, someone puts the ball in the net, aka scores a goal, then they stop play, retrieve ball, put it in midfield and voila, game is back on.. How do you "NOT KEEP SCORE?" I mean, there are no scoreboards but that's more to do with resources. when U8 or U7 games means they don't keep score, what is the difference between that and keeping score?

Do both teams kid themselves thinking they won? Do parents not talk about the number of goals?

Some kids/ parents do, some don't. It is used as an excuse for:
1. Really bad refs who don't help the kids learn the rules.
2. Demand all players rotate positions and play the same amount of time. Usually, that is a good thing to not pigeonhole kids. However god did make some kids strikes and some kids defenders.
3. Makes sure no kid gets to earn a trophy, or learn to deal with defeat - have to keep the numbers/ dues up.
4. Discourage set piece development or really any strategic development. At this age, ball skill development is most important, but it isn't ALL that is important.

The silliest part of this is that despite never having won or lost the kids try out for travel teams upon the conclusion of the U8 spring season.

 

[PeetWeet1]

Keeping score at U8 isn't going to do anything. More realistic changes:

1. No CONCACAF players allowed in MLS unless they are making X salary. Inotherwords, if it is a true Central American star, sign him. Otherwise, we dont need him taking the spot of an American while he trains to beat us. This is madness.

2. Work more with local school district clubs to identify elite athletes starting at the U8 level. Have the local clubs give a listing of their top-level U8s and have them report their progress and why they quit. If they did quit, the local club must have a board member in charge of "selling soccer" to the family and reporting stats on how many players are retained.

3. At the U10 level, local school district clubs should take more active recruitment of football, baseball, and basketball players. The Boy Scouts came to my son's school to recruit. Why not your local club?

4. I agree with college soccer. I do think that will move to a Aug-May sport eventually.

However, if they managed to get into UEFA, that would do more than anything for the growth of the game here.

Why limit competition? Getting rid of DPs, means our national team players won't stay home.

For #2 and #3, see not keeping score. The top athletes play soccer. Almost all suburban kids play soccer. They just quit to do other sports that care about winning. I definitely not advocating high stakes travel for 7 year olds. I am advocating being able to tell them if they won or lost.

And yes, UEFA membership would just about solve everything.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Some kids/ parents do, some don't. It is used as an excuse for:
1. Really bad refs who don't help the kids learn the rules.
2. Demand all players rotate positions and play the same amount of time. Usually, that is a good thing to not pigeonhole kids. However god did make some kids strikes and some kids defenders.
3. Makes sure no kid gets to earn a trophy, or learn to deal with defeat - have to keep the numbers/ dues up.
4. Discourage set piece development or really any strategic development. At this age, ball skill development is most important, but it isn't ALL that is important.

The silliest part of this is that despite never having won or lost the kids try out for travel teams upon the conclusion of the U8 spring season.

Read my post in the other thread. What happened? You guys are digging way too deep. What happened?

 

[ratking17]

I endorse SMF plan. In fact I like it a lot.

 

[PeetWeet1]

Read my post in the other thread. What happened? You guys are digging way too deep. What happened?

One word - SAWFT.

Going through the motions on a Champions League team gets one sent to the bench. It gets South American players shot. These 7-8 figure MLS players face no such pressure.

 

[Swervin27]

There is no scoreboard but the kids, parents, and coaches all know the score. However, since there is no official score, winning and losing isn't stressed and its more of a "fun" atmosphere. So maybe he means they should be put in more higj stakes environments earlier. I cant say I agree or disagree but there are all kinds of tournaments that keep score at young ages out there. Just not the local in-house leagues.

you over estimate kids. 2 minutes after game, they dont care who won or lost. a 6 year old is more concerned with the drink and snack more than who won, lost and what it means going forward.. You could keep score, scream it non stop during games, 6 year olds dont care, there is no "stress" on winning and losing at that level regardless of a scoreboard..

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

There is no scoreboard but the kids, parents, and coaches all know the score. However, since there is no official score, winning and losing isn't stressed and its more of a "fun" atmosphere. So maybe he means they should be put in more higj stakes environments earlier. I cant say I agree or disagree but there are all kinds of tournaments that keep score at young ages out there. Just not the local in-house leagues.

you over estimate kids. 2 minutes after game, they dont care who won or lost. a 6 year old is more concerned with the drink and snack more than who won, lost and what it means going forward.. You could keep score, scream it non stop during games, 6 year olds dont care, there is no "stress" on winning and losing at that level regardless of a scoreboard..

Im saying that keeping score or not keeping score is overrated. Doing it or not doing it won't make a bit of difference.

 

[Swervin27]

Im saying that keeping score or not keeping score is overrated. Doing it or not doing it won't make a bit of difference.

dude, me too. why are we arguing if we are saying the same thing?

 

[upj87]

Im saying that keeping score or not keeping score is overrated. Doing it or not doing it won't make a bit of difference.

uh, ok. Now from a different (male) perspective...

 

[Swervin27]

uh, ok. Now from a different perspective...

View embedded media

LOL, well done..

 

[Swervin27]

Why limit competition? Getting rid of DPs, means our national team players won't stay home.

For #2 and #3, see not keeping score. The top athletes play soccer. Almost all suburban kids play soccer. They just quit to do other sports that care about winning. I definitely not advocating high stakes travel for 7 year olds. I am advocating being able to tell them if they won or lost.

And yes, UEFA membership would just about solve everything.

if there is an agenda with U7 leagues in keeping the scores from the kids, i have not received this memo. i am a parent of a kid playing youth soccer and i am not in the loop here with this.

i do sit seperate from the parents though, everyone is all lined up on the one side, i sit up on the little hill away from the rest of those clowns. elevated perch, smugly looking down on everyone, feeling cooler in my isolated spacing that is unofficially, MY RESERVED SPACE so maybe this does exist and i was left out on purpose..

 

[Panther Parrothead]

you over estimate kids. 2 minutes after game, they dont care who won or lost. a 6 year old is more concerned with the drink and snack more than who won, lost and what it means going forward.. You could keep score, scream it non stop during games, 6 year olds dont care, there is no "stress" on winning and losing at that level regardless of a scoreboard..

Yeah, while the kids know who "won" the game, there are no standings, so any score is basically meaningless. And as you said, the snacks after the game have waaay more importance to the kids than any score - whether the score is kept or not.

 

[Swervin27]

Yeah, while the kids know who "won" the game, there are no standings, so any score is basically meaningless. And as you said, the snacks after the game have waaay more importance to the kids than any score - whether the score is kept or not.

OK, you guys may be convincing me here. with no scores, that means no winners, no standings and no playoff/championship games. Maybe that's what you guys are referring too. If other youth sports has a playoff format and youth soccer doesn't, this is a valid point.. If so, I kind of agree now..

 

[upj87]

I don't understand the "not keeping score" comment. I've been to many youth games, someone puts the ball in the net, aka scores a goal, then they stop play, retrieve ball, put it in midfield and voila, game is back on.. How do you "NOT KEEP SCORE?" I mean, there are no scoreboards but that's more to do with resources. when U8 or U7 games means they don't keep score, what is the difference between that and keeping score?

Do both teams kid themselves thinking they won? Do parents not talk about the number of goals?

I'm thinking U8 in places like Burkino Faso keep score and emphasize winning and and that is how guys from emaciated countries like that can knock good old USA out of international competitions. I know the kids in my house always knew the score whether it was kept or not. For some odd reason they found winning preferable to losing and strange as it is they found more enjoyment in it (yeah even at 5 or 6). goofy kids.

 

[Pitt79]

NO, Not happening! LOL, Maybe Greece should play in Oceania, they could dominate the Fiji Islands!

 

[Pitt79]

I didn't say so we can beat European countries. I said so we can grow MLS by playing in Champions League. If we're not going to make the WC, we might as well miss it out of UEFA.

It makes NO SENSE at all, it's a typically American NONSENSICAL idea, the USA playing for the European Championship.... Uh, NO!

 

[Pitt79]

Do both teams kid themselves thinking they won? Do parents not talk about the number of goals?

I remember my daughter's 1st season, she was 8, the league didn't keep score or keep track of who won, her team was 5-0-1 and champion if they kept track, at the end of season league party they gave all the kids the same trophy. One girl on our team said, "but we won every game", another girl replied, "no, we tied one"... so no matter how much they try to not keep score, the kids do.

 

[Pitt79]

Back to the original topic, If the USA can do that, move to UEFA, so Mexico and Canada should do it too, Mexico in fact is more deserving as a soccer nation. Why would UEFA want the USA? I suppose the USA could bribe their board of directors?

 

[Panther Parrothead]

OK, you guys may be convincing me here. with no scores, that means no winners, no standings and no playoff/championship games. Maybe that's what you guys are referring too. If other youth sports has a playoff format and youth soccer doesn't, this is a valid point.. If so, I kind of agree now..

Yep. The one advantage to this is that these teams are all "developmental", so that in the early years, there are minimum playing time rules, such as "every child must play at least half the game". That takes all of the pressure away from the coaches so that they're not obsessed with playing his best players for most of the game (i.e. winning), and that even the little kid who might be "physically challenged" or slower in his development can play, too, without the other parents making nasty comments that he shouldn't be out there because he's hurting the team.

But once they're traveling, it's all different.....everyone wants to win.

 

[Iupswack]

I don't understand the "not keeping score" comment. I've been to many youth games, someone puts the ball in the net, aka scores a goal, then they stop play, retrieve ball, put it in midfield and voila, game is back on.. How do you "NOT KEEP SCORE?" I mean, there are no scoreboards but that's more to do with resources. when U8 or U7 games means they don't keep score, what is the difference between that and keeping score?

Do both teams kid themselves thinking they won? Do parents not talk about the number of goals?

Some kids/ parents do, some don't. It is used as an excuse for:
1. Really bad refs who don't help the kids learn the rules.
2. Demand all players rotate positions and play the same amount of time. Usually, that is a good thing to not pigeonhole kids. However god did make some kids strikes and some kids defenders.
3. Makes sure no kid gets to earn a trophy, or learn to deal with defeat - have to keep the numbers/ dues up.
4. Discourage set piece development or really any strategic development. At this age, ball skill development is most important, but it isn't ALL that is important.

The silliest part of this is that despite never having won or lost the kids try out for travel teams upon the conclusion of the U8 spring season.

Canada just moved to not keeping score as well. In my experience watching ) the younger age groups, if a team has 3 good kids they just play 1 goodnkid at each level ( defender midfield and attacker) and those 3 kids just kick to each of them and don't actually learn much about how to play and so on.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

I remember my daughter's 1st season, she was 8, the league didn't keep score or keep track of who won, her team was 5-0-1 and champion if they kept track, at the end of season league party they gave all the kids the same trophy. One girl on our team said, "but we won every game", another girl replied, "no, we tied one"... so no matter how much they try to not keep score, the kids do.

Something similar, but different: I was closely involved with a soccer association that didn't keep score in their "in house" games, and the "no score" rule was made clear to everyone at the beginning of every season. Nonetheless, at the end of one season, some over-zealous parent took it upon themselves to send a picture of their child's team to the local newspaper (and they published it), along with a small write-up that boasted that their team was "undefeated for two seasons".

Let's just say that the association's board-of-directors did not look too kindly on the matter.

 

[pittdan77]

One USMNT thread wasn't good enough? Mods please merge. Thx.

Do you really expect one thread to solve this problem? Imagine the chaos if Pitt lost to the U-10 South Park Flag Football league champions? Same order of magnitude, probably.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yeah, while the kids know who "won" the game, there are no standings, so any score is basically meaningless. And as you said, the snacks after the game have waaay more importance to the kids than any score - whether the score is kept or not.

OK, you guys may be convincing me here. with no scores, that means no winners, no standings and no playoff/championship games. Maybe that's what you guys are referring too. If other youth sports has a playoff format and youth soccer doesn't, this is a valid point.. If so, I kind of agree now..

Yes, that is the case for keeping score. To emphasize winning and to put kids in more stressful (not in a bad way) win or lose situations. When there is an official, coaches and parents will emphasize winning for better or worse. Some feel this is important. Me, I don't think it will have any effect on the USMNT. If you want to put your kid in "win or lose" situations there's many summer or winter tournaments that keep score.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

 

[CJsE]

Will never happen, should never happen.

Professional soccer is a 4th tier sport in the United States. If we didn't have some of our best athletes playing football or basketball or baseball then we would have a very competitive league. But they are playing those other, far more lucrative sports so we aren't competitive.

 

[lein]

Keeping score at U8 isn't going to do anything. More realistic changes:

1. No CONCACAF players allowed in MLS unless they are making X salary. Inotherwords, if it is a true Central American star, sign him. Otherwise, we dont need him taking the spot of an American while he trains to beat us. This is madness.

2. Work more with local school district clubs to identify elite athletes starting at the U8 level. Have the local clubs give a listing of their top-level U8s and have them report their progress and why they quit. If they did quit, the local club must have a board member in charge of "selling soccer" to the family and reporting stats on how many players are retained.

3. At the U10 level, local school district clubs should take more active recruitment of football, baseball, and basketball players. The Boy Scouts came to my son's school to recruit. Why not your local club?

4. I agree with college soccer. I do think that will move to a Aug-May sport eventually.

However, if they managed to get into UEFA, that would do more than anything for the growth of the game here.

5. the UK tries to qualify 4 different teams (for one country). So lets send 50 teams to qualify, one for each state. You'll likely get a qualification group made up of just U.S. States teams so an American team can get in.

 

[PeetWeet1]

Will never happen, should never happen.

Professional soccer is a 4th tier sport in the United States. If we didn't have some of our best athletes playing football or basketball or baseball then we would have a very competitive league. But they are playing those other, far more lucrative sports so we aren't competitive.

They aren't more lucrative. MLS = KHL. Need to compare Champions League wages to MLB, NFL and NBA wages.

 

[Pittx9]

How bout they just beat these teams that they should be destroying. Doesn't matter where they go, they are a joke. Maybe they'd have a chance if all you had to do to qualify for the World Cup was win the wpial tournament, maybe.

 

[CJsE]

They aren't more lucrative. MLS = KHL. Need to compare Champions League wages to MLB, NFL and NBA wages.

Silly me, I forgot all of the American soccer teams with Champions League budgets.

Or do you mean the 5 or so Americans that are actually in the Champions League vs the thousands that are playing MLB, NFL, and NBA? Because opportunity is relative, it is more lucrative to try and play football, baseball, or basketball in the United States.

 

[PeetWeet1]

Silly me, I forgot all of the American soccer teams with Champions League budgets.

Or do you mean the 5 or so Americans that are actually in the Champions League vs the thousands that are playing MLB, NFL, and NBA? Because opportunity is relative, it is more lucrative to try and play football, baseball, or basketball in the United States.

The opportunity you speak of is fantasy. Very, very few pro soccer players could play pro football, basketball or baseball. The converse is also true. I do suspect we have many undersized, high motor, D1 fb and bb players that missed their actual professional opportunity. Just as I suspect England has explosive soccer and rugby players that lack the mid-intensity endurance require by these sports. These could have become FB players.

Thanks to TV and there Internet, the works has shrunk. A kid in Argentina is trying to become the next LeBron. A kid in the USA is dreaming of being the next Messi. Both are unrealistic. Both have huge payouts. Low KHL salaries don't prevent Russia from turning out hockey players. Low, but fast improving, MLS salaries aren't going to stop a kid from trying to make it. Soccer, like the other sports you mentioned has hundreds of very lucrative spots available to the very who qualify.