OT: What if Craig Patrick remained Penguins GM?

[HailToPitt725]

Here’s a fun idea to pass the time: Let’s say Craig Patrick remains the Pens GM in 2006 and beyond. His presence is still felt on the team through Crosby, Malkin, and Letang, along with Fleury.

Would the Pens have had similar success under a prolonged GMCP regime? More/less? Would they have drafted Staal in 2006 or someone else, such as Toews? Any speculation on trades/coaches? What say you?

 

[wbrpanther]

Well

Here’s a fun idea to pass the time: Let’s say Craig Patrick remains the Pens GM in 2006 and beyond. His presence is still felt on the team through Crosby, Malkin, and Letang, along with Fleury.

Would the Pens have had similar success under a prolonged GMCP regime? More/less? Would they have drafted Staal in 2006 or someone else, such as Toews? Any speculation on trades/coaches? What say you?

The Pens won 3 cups after he left so I doubt he would have done better.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Craig Patrick did an amazing job with the Penguins during his time here. However, when he was fired, it was definitely time for him to go.

There is no way he could operate in today’s game. It’s just a completely different animal now than it was when he was running the team. Also, I think he suffered from some mental health issues.

I still think Patrick should have a role within the organization – even if it is a only ceremonial role. Honestly, he’s a really good hockey mind and I would always welcome his insights. However, the game had clearly passed him by and it was time for him to go — and that was many, many years ago now.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Well

The Pens won 3 cups after he left so I doubt he would have done better.

Craig Patrick did an amazing job with the Penguins during his time here. However, when he was fired, it was definitely time for him to go.

There is no way he could operate in today’s game. It’s just a completely different animal now than it was when he was running the team. Also, I think he suffered from some mental health issues.

I still think Patrick should have a role within the organization – even if it is a only ceremonial role. Honestly, he’s a really good hockey mind and I would always welcome his insights. However, the game had clearly passed him by and it was time for him to go — and that was many, many years ago now.

Agree with both you, just trying to think of a subject to discuss as time goes on.

Another one that I mentioned in the OP: What if the Penguins drafted Toews instead of Staal? I think Staal was perfect for what we needed but Toews is the better player and eventually we would’ve had to move him. Wonder what the late 2000s/early 2010s would look like with him on the roster and what type of return we could’ve gotten.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Toews is a really weird player to me in that he clearly was/is an outstanding hockey player and was an enormous contributor to their winning three Stanley Cups in six seasons.

Everyone would love to have a Jonathan Toews on their team and I definitely wish we had taken him instead of Staal – who was also exceptional for us.

Nicklaus Backstrom was another great player from that draft but Toews was definitely the best player of the bunch, IMHO.

However, somewhere along the way his reputation became greater than the actual player – far greater.

Patrick Kane has long been Chicago’s most dangerous forward and there have been several years now where Toews wasn’t very good for the Hawks, let alone an elite player as his reputation would suggest.

I saw a statistic earlier this year when Malkin passed the 70-point mark that it was the 11th time in his career he has done so.

Toews, who was played just one less season than Geno, has done it just twice. Now, Toews is definitely better in his own and than Geno, but he’s not that much better that it’s worth sacrificing that many points.

Malkin certainly has his warts as well but he’s a head and shoulders better player than Toews by pretty much every measure, IMHO. However, there are many, many hockey fans out there who would adamantly disagree with me on that.

Honestly, I don’t even think Toews is the best defense-first center in the league. I think Patrice Bergeron has been that guy for a very long time now.

Please don’t misconstrue this as me saying that Toews is a bad player, because he is a hell of a hockey player. I would take him in a heartbeat. I just wouldn’t be too keen on paying $10.5 million per year for a guy who puts up 63 points per year.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Toews is a really weird player to me in that he clearly was/is an outstanding hockey player and was an enormous contributor to their winning three Stanley Cups in six seasons.

Everyone would love to have a Jonathan Toews on their team and I definitely wish we had taken him instead of Staal – who was also exceptional for us.

Nicklaus Backstrom was another great player from that draft but Toews was definitely the best player of the bunch, IMHO.

However, somewhere along the way his reputation became greater than the actual player – far greater.

Patrick Kane has long been Chicago’s most dangerous forward and there have been several years now where Toews wasn’t very good for the Hawks, let alone an elite player as his reputation would suggest.

I saw a statistic earlier this year when Malkin passed the 70-point mark that it was the 11th time in his career he has done so.

Toews, who was played just one less season than Geno, has done it just twice. Now, Toews is definitely better in his own and than Geno, but he’s not that much better that it’s worth sacrificing that many points.

Malkin certainly has his words as well but he has a head and shoulders better player than Toews by pretty much every measure but there are many, many hockey fans who would disagree with that.

Honestly, I don’t even think Toews is the best defense-first center in the league. I think Patrice Bergeron has been that guy for a very long time now.

Yep. To sum it up......Toews isn't fit to hold Geno's jockstrap as a player, and Toews, don't get me wrong is a good player, and was a real good player, but I would take Patrice Bergeron over Toews everyday.

Bergeron is the current version of Pavel Datsyuk. Just an outstanding 2 way player and has been for the past decade. Or more.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

As for CP. Craig definitely had his hits in the 90's, but man he lost his fastball. The Jagr trade was just abysmal. The Kovalev trade was almost as bad. Anyone on this forum with rudimentary hockey knowledge could have drafted 87 and 71 (though he gets big props for Letang in rd 3).

But yeah, the game passed him by, I do agree some cushy job should be found for him in this organization. I don't think Craig though would have allowed Bylsma to continue screwing up the playoffs as long as Shero did.

I criticize Shero's drafts and his 1st rd picks whether we kept or traded were bad, but he also did some great picks with Guentzel, Murray, and others in later rds.

To be honest, aside for 2013, where Shero just acquired too much, Early CP, Shero and JR all are pretty damn good evaluating and pulling off trades. Which makes sense because the Pens have been the most successful franchise in the NHL over the last 30 years.

 

[JD1976]

As for CP. Craig definitely had his hits in the 90's, but man he lost his fastball. The Jagr trade was just abysmal. The Kovalev trade was almost as bad. Anyone on this forum with rudimentary hockey knowledge could have drafted 87 and 71 (though he gets big props for Letang in rd 3).

Not to pile on Craig too much, but let's not forget the trade that was named "Worst Trade of All-Time" by one of the Canadian outlets... Markus Naslund to Vancouver for Alex Stojanov.

While CP overall did a great job (the signings and trades he made from 1990-92 got the Pens over the hump and won back-to-back Cups -- not to mention the '92-93 team that was the best regular season in team history despite losing in the 2nd round), there's no doubt that his failure to get even one legit NHL player in the salary dumps for Jagr, Naslund and Kovalev was the reason the team bottomed out to historic levels in the early 2000s.

As mentioned, it didn't take a genius to draft Malkin #2 overall in 2004 or Sid #1 overall in 2005, but he should get a lot of credit for taking Fleury #1 overall in 2003. Taking a goalie in the first round is one of the biggest crap shoots in sports -- let alone taking one 1st overall. Not only did he take the gamble, it certainly paid off. No matter what you think of MAF, the fact that he is still a top 5 NHL goalie 17 years later proves he got that pick right.

Speaking of draft picks, there was an interesting discussion on Sirius XM NHL Network Radio yesterday about those lotteries from 2004 and '05. The Penguins actually had the largest ping pong ball in 2004, meaning they were the favorite to draft Ovechkin. Washington actually had the 3rd best chance, behind Chicago. While no one is complaining about Malkin, just think about the Penguins with both Sid and Ovi playing on the same line for all those years.

But through Patrick, Shero and Rutherford, there is a culture around the Penguins that makes you think that even if the team bottoms out after the Sid/Geno era, it will be back at the top of the league again just a half-decade later.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Not to pile on Craig too much, but let's not forget the trade that was named "Worst Trade of All-Time" by one of the Canadian outlets... Markus Naslund to Vancouver for Alex Stojanov.

While CP overall did a great job (the signings and trades he made from 1990-92 got the Pens over the hump and won back-to-back Cups -- not to mention the '92-93 team that was the best regular season in team history despite losing in the 2nd round), there's no doubt that his failure to get even one legit NHL player in the salary dumps for Jagr, Naslund and Kovalev was the reason the team bottomed out to historic levels in the early 2000s.

As mentioned, it didn't take a genius to draft Malkin #2 overall in 2004 or Sid #1 overall in 2005, but he should get a lot of credit for taking Fleury #1 overall in 2003. Taking a goalie in the first round is one of the biggest crap shoots in sports -- let alone taking one 1st overall. Not only did he take the gamble, it certainly paid off. No matter what you think of MAF, the fact that he is still a top 5 NHL goalie 17 years later proves he got that pick right.

Speaking of draft picks, there was an interesting discussion on Sirius XM NHL Network Radio yesterday about those lotteries from 2004 and '05. The Penguins actually had the largest ping pong ball in 2004, meaning they were the favorite to draft Ovechkin. Washington actually had the 3rd best chance, behind Chicago. While no one is complaining about Malkin, just think about the Penguins with both Sid and Ovi playing on the same line for all those years.

But through Patrick, Shero and Rutherford, there is a culture around the Penguins that makes you think that even if the team bottoms out after the Sid/Geno era, it will be back at the top of the league again just a half-decade later.

What is amazing about those lotteries.......

In Sid's year (2005), there was NO CONSOLATION PRIZE!! Aside from Sid, that draft was awfully weak. That 2005 draft here was the top 5:
1) Sid
2) Bobby Ryan
3) Jack Johnson
4) Benoit Pouliot
5) Carey Price

Now Price went on to be a great goalie, but the Pens already had their goalie. I can give you picks 6-10, but unless you are Pierre McGuire, you would be hard pressed to recognize the names. Really awful draft. So the Pens not just lucked out with Sid, but basically avoided disaster.

The 2004 draft, while Ovy was the prize, Geno Malkin likely would have been the #1 overall pick in almost any other draft aside from 2005 until Connor McDavid. So there was a definitive 1A here in this draft, and in some instances people were wondering if Malkin would end up being better. He wasn't, but he also is a 1st ballot HOFer.

So everyone talks about how lucky the Pens were in getting Sid by the lottery, they fail to remember Washington got Ovy the same way. Because the 2004 draft after the two Russian superstars again was not very good.
3. Cam Barker
4. Andrew Ladd
5. Blake Wheeler
6. Al Montoya.
By the way, 7-12 was Rotislav Olesz, Alexandre Picard, Lubaslov Smid, Boris Valubak, Lori Tukanen and AJ Thelen. Those 6 combined for a total of 69 goals. Ever. In their entire careers. And none are goalies.

So if the Caps did not win the lottery they would have been sitting at 3 deciding to pick amongst those 3 players. Ladd hasn't been bad, and Wheeler has been a good player, but hardly a franchise superstar.

So.......this is why I am against now how the NHL holds their lotteries where it is not extended to the 15 non playoff participants. Because sometimes there are legit really, really bad teams. And you move say the Pens down to the 3rd slot in either draft, they may have not won any cups. That is too punitive. To me, the top pick lottery should only be 3 teams.

For example this year the clear #1 overall player is Alexis Lafrienere. Detroit is by far the worst team in the league. They only like a 19% chance to get the top pick, while that is the best odds, it is still only 1 in 5 odds. That is not good enough to help the bottom dwelling teams.

 

[HailToPitt725]

What is amazing about those lotteries.......

In Sid's year (2005), there was NO CONSOLATION PRIZE!! Aside from Sid, that draft was awfully weak. That 2005 draft here was the top 5:
1) Sid
2) Bobby Ryan
3) Jack Johnson
4) Benoit Pouliot
5) Carey Price

Now Price went on to be a great goalie, but the Pens already had their goalie. I can give you picks 6-10, but unless you are Pierre McGuire, you would be hard pressed to recognize the names. Really awful draft. So the Pens not just lucked out with Sid, but basically avoided disaster.

The 2004 draft, while Ovy was the prize, Geno Malkin likely would have been the #1 overall pick in almost any other draft aside from 2005 until Connor McDavid. So there was a definitive 1A here in this draft, and in some instances people were wondering if Malkin would end up being better. He wasn't, but he also is a 1st ballot HOFer.

So everyone talks about how lucky the Pens were in getting Sid by the lottery, they fail to remember Washington got Ovy the same way. Because the 2004 draft after the two Russian superstars again was not very good.
3. Cam Barker
4. Andrew Ladd
5. Blake Wheeler
6. Al Montoya.
By the way, 7-12 was Rotislav Olesz, Alexandre Picard, Lubaslov Smid, Boris Valubak, Lori Tukanen and AJ Thelen. Those 6 combined for a total of 69 goals. Ever. In their entire careers. And none are goalies.

So if the Caps did not win the lottery they would have been sitting at 3 deciding to pick amongst those 3 players. Ladd hasn't been bad, and Wheeler has been a good player, but hardly a franchise superstar.

So.......this is why I am against now how the NHL holds their lotteries where it is not extended to the 15 non playoff participants. Because sometimes there are legit really, really bad teams. And you move say the Pens down to the 3rd slot in either draft, they may have not won any cups. That is too punitive. To me, the top pick lottery should only be 3 teams.

For example this year the clear #1 overall player is Alexis Lafrienere. Detroit is by far the worst team in the league. They only like a 19% chance to get the top pick, while that is the best odds, it is still only 1 in 5 odds. That is not good enough to help the bottom dwelling teams.

So the Pens got two of the top three picks in the 2005 Draft. We really lucked out!!

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

As for CP. Craig definitely had his hits in the 90's, but man he lost his fastball. The Jagr trade was just abysmal.

The return for Jagr was terrible (Kris Beech, Ross Lupsicheck and Michael Sivek) but Patrick also was sort of over a barrel. Jagr was openly demanding a trade and was becoming a negative influence on the rest of the locker room. The team was close to bankruptcy and Baldwin couldn’t afford his sizable contract. No team was going to make him a great offer in that spot.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

What annoys me most about the draft is the fact that Pittsburgh took a lot of heat for being a bad team for several years in a row and having a number of high picks.

However, Edmonton had the first or the second overall pick like seven years in a row or something like that. They fanned on a lot of players before they finally hit on Draisaitl and McDavid — who really do remind you of Geno and Sid. Those guys are two of the very best players in the league.

No one ever seems to talk about that.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

What annoys me most about the draft is the fact that Pittsburgh took a lot of heat for being a bad team for several years in a row and having a number of high picks.

However, Edmonton had the first or the second overall pick like seven years in a row or something like that. They fanned on a lot of players before they finally hit on Draisaitl and McDavid — who really do remind you of Geno and Sid. Those guys are two of the very best players in the league.

No one ever seems to talk about that.

Doc, most of that criticism was by jealous Flyers, Rangers and Leafs fans. How come they also didn’t say the same thing about the Blackhawks

 

[joeypitt]

What is amazing about those lotteries.......

In Sid's year (2005), there was NO CONSOLATION PRIZE!! Aside from Sid, that draft was awfully weak. That 2005 draft here was the top 5:
1) Sid
2) Bobby Ryan
3) Jack Johnson
4) Benoit Pouliot
5) Carey Price

Now Price went on to be a great goalie, but the Pens already had their goalie. I can give you picks 6-10, but unless you are Pierre McGuire, you would be hard pressed to recognize the names. Really awful draft. So the Pens not just lucked out with Sid, but basically avoided disaster.

The 2004 draft, while Ovy was the prize, Geno Malkin likely would have been the #1 overall pick in almost any other draft aside from 2005 until Connor McDavid. So there was a definitive 1A here in this draft, and in some instances people were wondering if Malkin would end up being better. He wasn't, but he also is a 1st ballot HOFer.

So everyone talks about how lucky the Pens were in getting Sid by the lottery, they fail to remember Washington got Ovy the same way. Because the 2004 draft after the two Russian superstars again was not very good.
3. Cam Barker
4. Andrew Ladd
5. Blake Wheeler
6. Al Montoya.
By the way, 7-12 was Rotislav Olesz, Alexandre Picard, Lubaslov Smid, Boris Valubak, Lori Tukanen and AJ Thelen. Those 6 combined for a total of 69 goals. Ever. In their entire careers. And none are goalies.

So if the Caps did not win the lottery they would have been sitting at 3 deciding to pick amongst those 3 players. Ladd hasn't been bad, and Wheeler has been a good player, but hardly a franchise superstar.

So.......this is why I am against now how the NHL holds their lotteries where it is not extended to the 15 non playoff participants. Because sometimes there are legit really, really bad teams. And you move say the Pens down to the 3rd slot in either draft, they may have not won any cups. That is too punitive. To me, the top pick lottery should only be 3 teams.

For example this year the clear #1 overall player is Alexis Lafrienere. Detroit is by far the worst team in the league. They only like a 19% chance to get the top pick, while that is the best odds, it is still only 1 in 5 odds. That is not good enough to help the bottom dwelling teams.

I thought Kirk Muller went #2 in that draft??

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I thought Kirk Muller went #2 in that draft??

Jesus........that was the Lemieux draft in 1984. LOL

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

So the Pens got two of the top three picks in the 2005 Draft. We really lucked out!!

Even better..................we also ended up with the very last pick in the 2005 draft. His name? Patrick Hornquist. So that draft gave the Pens Sid, JJ, Kris Letang and Hornquist. Not too shabby.

 

[joeypitt]

Jesus........that was the Lemieux draft in 1984. LOL

How time flies!!!!

 

[JD1976]

What annoys me most about the draft is the fact that Pittsburgh took a lot of heat for being a bad team for several years in a row and having a number of high picks.

However, Edmonton had the first or the second overall pick like seven years in a row or something like that. They fanned on a lot of players before they finally hit on Draisaitl and McDavid — who really do remind you of Geno and Sid. Those guys are two of the very best players in the league.

No one ever seems to talk about that.

You could certainly make the argument that McDavid and Draisaitl are the two best offensive players in the league right now. If not 1-2, then any list without Draisaitl in the top 4 clearly hasn’t been paying attention. But even so, Edmonton had some historic misses before hitting on those two (see Yakupov, Nail).

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

You could certainly make the argument that McDavid and Draisaitl are the two best offensive players in the league right now. If not 1-2, then any list without Draisaitl in the top 4 clearly hasn’t been paying attention. But even so, Edmonton had some historic misses before hitting on those two (see Yakupov, Nail).

Edmonton is a perfect example of it is not fantasy hockey. Drafted Yakupov, Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle, Connor McDavid, Leon Draisaitl, Jesse Pulijarvi, Ryan Nugent Hopkins Ummmm guys, where's the D? They should have traded for a dman. They made a horrible trade with New Jersey. Makes you appreciate our Management/Scouting teams over the last 30 years. Cause Edmonton had like 8 out of 9 top 5 picks.

 

[JD1976]

Edmonton is a perfect example of it is not fantasy hockey. Drafted Yakupov, Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle, Connor McDavid, Leon Draisaitl, Jesse Pulijarvi, Ryan Nugent Hopkins Ummmm guys, where's the D? They should have traded for a dman. They made a horrible trade with New Jersey. Makes you appreciate our Management/Scouting teams over the last 30 years. Cause Edmonton had like 8 out of 9 top 5 picks.

Good point. Edmonton also once acquired now-legendary top flameout Griffin Reinhart for a 1st and 2nd round pick. Just some awful personnel decisions. Even this year as a likely playoff team, they still had virtually nothing outside of McDavid and Draisaitl. That’s how good those two are along with serviceable goaltending from Smith and Koskinen.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Good point. Edmonton also once acquired now-legendary top flameout Griffin Reinhart for a 1st and 2nd round pick. Just some awful personnel decisions. Even this year as a likely playoff team, they still had virtually nothing outside of McDavid and Draisaitl. That’s how good those two are along with serviceable goaltending from Smith and Koskinen.

It is why and who knows what happens now, but the Pens aren't going to lose a goalie in the expansion draft like they did with Vegas. So most likely one will be traded at some point before the 2021 expansion draft. I could see Murray headed to Edmonton.

Oh and speaking of poor personnel decisions, Edmonton traded us John Marino for a 6th round pick in what is a horrible, horrible deal for them.

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

It is why and who knows what happens now, but the Pens aren't going to lose a goalie in the expansion draft like they did with Vegas. So most likely one will be traded at some point before the 2021 expansion draft. I could see Murray headed to Edmonton.

Oh and speaking of poor personnel decisions, Edmonton traded us John Marino for a 6th round pick in what is a horrible, horrible deal for them.

Marino was drafted by their previous GM Peter Chiarelli and the two had some connection. When it came time to sign an entry deal after college, Chiarelli had been replaced. According to Marino, he and his family looked at Edmonton's pool of players that the new front office had taken and they weren't sure he'd get a fair shot. So they told the Oilers they didn't want to sign. That is when traded his rights, but it was a steal nonetheless.

Oh, and as tough a year as Schultz has had, that was another doozie that we pulled over on them.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Marino was drafted by their previous GM Peter Chiarelli and the two had some connection. When it came time to sign an entry deal after college, Chiarelli had been replaced. According to Marino, he and his family looked at Edmonton's pool of players that the new front office had taken and they weren't sure he'd get a fair shot. So they told the Oilers they didn't want to sign. That is when traded his rights, but it was a steal nonetheless.

Oh, and as tough a year as Schultz has had, that was another doozie that we pulled over on them.

Oh yeah, forgot about Schultz. Hey, we have won 2 Cups with him as a top 4 defenseman on this team. And yeah, Chiarelli was originally with Boston, and Marino is from Boston, so I think there was some family connection (friends).

I love trading with Edmonton. See Coffey, Paul.

We generally do really well.

 

[JD1976]

Marino was drafted by their previous GM Peter Chiarelli and the two had some connection. When it came time to sign an entry deal after college, Chiarelli had been replaced. According to Marino, he and his family looked at Edmonton's pool of players that the new front office had taken and they weren't sure he'd get a fair shot. So they told the Oilers they didn't want to sign. That is when traded his rights, but it was a steal nonetheless.

Oh, and as tough a year as Schultz has had, that was another doozie that we pulled over on them.

I was going to post the same thing about Marino. While it looks bad for an organization that has failed to develop much on the blue line to basically give away Marino, the truth is the Oilers’ hands were tied because he made it clear he didn’t want to sign in Edmonton. So basically, it was either lose his rights after his college eligibility was exhausted and receive no compensation, or trade him for a low pick and at least get an asset. It’s funny though how the Canadian media only likes to point out that Edmonton essentially gave Marino away for free without mentioning his lack of desire to play for the Oil.

To turn this back to Pittsburgh, this is an example of why I think people get too caught up in Rutherford always trading away his draft picks. No team in the NHL scouts the NCAA ranks better than the Pens. If you are a consistent playoff team, signing a 22-year old college free agent often times pays off better and more immediate than using a late first round pick on an 18-year old from Europe or the CHL.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I was going to post the same thing about Marino. While it looks bad for an organization that has failed to develop much on the blue line to basically give away Marino, the truth is the Oilers’ hands were tied because he made it clear he didn’t want to sign in Edmonton. So basically, it was either lose his rights after his college eligibility was exhausted and receive no compensation, or trade him for a low pick and at least get an asset. It’s funny though how the Canadian media only likes to point out that Edmonton essentially have Marino away for free without mentioning his lack of desire to play for the Oil.

To turn this back to Pittsburgh, this is an example of why I think people get too caught up in Rutherford always trading away his draft picks. No team in the NHL, scouts the NCAA ranks better than the Pens. If you are a consistent playoff team, signing a 22-year old college free agent often times pays off better and more immediate than using a late first round pick on an 18-year old from Europe or the CHL.

Well think about it........

You have teams like Edmonton, New Jersey, Buffalo, Florida with multiple high, top 10 draft picks over the past 6-7 years, and some of the above have gotten some really good players, and the Pens have been devoid of mostly 1st and 2nd rd picks. Yet, the Pens were able to bring into the organization Marino, Guentzel, Murray, Jarry, Rust, Blueger, all who have or look like they will have as good or better careers than many high 1st rd picks. So...in essence, the Pens are doing alot what Detroit was doing in the 90's, when they were drafting guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Lidstrom, Ericsson with later rd picks.

 

[JD1976]

Well think about it........

You have teams like Edmonton, New Jersey, Buffalo, Florida with multiple high, top 10 draft picks over the past 6-7 years, and some of the above have gotten some really good players, and the Pens have been devoid of mostly 1st and 2nd rd picks. Yet, the Pens were able to bring into the organization Marino, Guentzel, Murray, Jarry, Rust, Blueger, all who have or look like they will have as good or better careers than many high 1st rd picks. So...in essence, the Pens are doing alot what Detroit was doing in the 90's, when they were drafting guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Lidstrom, Ericsson with later rd picks.

Indeed. Tampa Bay has done much the same recently by finding some good mid- round gems (Brayden Point and Anthony Cirelli chief among them).

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Indeed. Tampa Bay has done much the same recently by finding some good mid- round gems (Brayden Point and Anthony Cirelli chief among them).

I do not know how they have been able to avoid cap hell, I really don't. Sergechev and Cirelli are due raises this year as RFA's, but they have almost the same number of players at or above $5 mill as the Pens.

 

[JD1976]

I do not know how they have been able to avoid cap hell, I really don't. Sergechev and Cirelli are due raises this year as RFA's, but they have almost the same number of players at or above $5 mill as the Pens.

Yeah Yzerman built a powerhouse there, but he also left some issues to solve when he went to Detroit. It’s not necessarily his fault because the problem was mostly born out of their middle-tier guys becoming really good players. The one good thing for TBL is that their top tier guys aren’t grossly overpaid when you compare them to the marketplace. Vasilevski at 9.5 per moving forward it a lot for a goalie, but he is the best in the game right now. Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman and Point are all on team-friendly deals compared to others in the league. Where they got into trouble was giving eye-raising 5m+ AAV’s to guys like Palat, Gourde and Tyler Johnson. They are going to need to move 2 or maybe all 3 of those guys this offseason in order to make room for the two you mentioned.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Well think about it........

You have teams like Edmonton, New Jersey, Buffalo, Florida with multiple high, top 10 draft picks over the past 6-7 years, and some of the above have gotten some really good players, and the Pens have been devoid of mostly 1st and 2nd rd picks. Yet, the Pens were able to bring into the organization Marino, Guentzel, Murray, Jarry, Rust, Blueger, all who have or look like they will have as good or better careers than many high 1st rd picks. So...in essence, the Pens are doing alot what Detroit was doing in the 90's, when they were drafting guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Lidstrom, Ericsson with later rd picks.

Agreed, and I’d argue this is why the Pens have had sustained success while other multi-cup winners like Chicago and Los Angeles, even Detroit have come and gone. Need to be able to discover those hidden gems that can be used to reload for cheap when you’re in salary cap purgatory.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Agreed, and I’d argue this is why the Pens have had sustained success while other multi-cup winners like Chicago and Los Angeles, even Detroit have come and gone. Need to be able to discover those hidden gems that can be used to reload for cheap when you’re in salary cap purgatory.

Don't kid yourself. Detroit had a fantastic run from the mid 90's into the 2000 teens. Eventually, they crashed. Of course, that spanned a bit of Yzerman/Fedorov/Larionov group into the Lidstrom/Datsyuk/Zetterberg group.

The Pens are running from 2007-08 now into the early 20's as a contender. But they will eventually crash too.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Don't kid yourself. Detroit had a fantastic run from the mid 90's into the 2000 teens. Eventually, they crashed. Of course, that spanned a bit of Yzerman/Fedorov/Larionov group into the Lidstrom/Datsyuk/Zetterberg group.

The Pens are running from 2007-08 now into the early 20's as a contender. But they will eventually crash too.

Agreed. Speaking of the Pens and the 2020s, I wonder what the post-Sid/Geno era looks like for them. Will they try to squeeze out as many years as possible as a contender with some of the young guys on the roster (headliner by Guentzel) or will they look to immediately tear it down and rebuild in the form of multiple high draft picks. They seem to have a decent track record at doing that...