OT: WTH Sully?
- Thread starter CCHS82
- Start date
I believe Geno had three points in the first 2 games, 3 for the three games, which is about what is career playoff average is.
Defense needed upgraded, did little to change it. Still get overwhelmed by any team with speed. Geno, Letang, Hornquist just not there enough.
It is Ski. Maybe it is finally Pitt's time. As I actually walked the mayor off of a ledge.
In the Pens case specifically, 3 Championships in 10 years, 5 in 28, most years serious contenders, and the fact that more times than not, the best player in the world resided here, well I mean if I die never seeing more than this, it is at least hockey wise, more than most any other fan has experienced in 50, 60, 70 years. Hell, the Leafs, with all of their resources haven't participated in the Finals in over 50 years, the Rangers have won ONE in over 80 years. So........yeah.
Maybe it is time for Pitt to give us some memories.
I was thinking the same thing. It’s an opportunity for Pitt football and hoops.
Question for you and others: Three cups and four finals is pretty amazing and awesome. But given the fact that the Pens has Two top 5-10 players.... will we look back and say “they should have had more?”
No. It is not basketball, where having that type of concentration of talent can be manifested into dominance. For one, remember Sid was essentially lost 2 playoff runs to injuries in his prime, Geno one year. Salary Cap adds to this, think about it, since the NHL has put in a salary cap, there have only been one B2B champs, the Pens, and only three times a team has even participated in B2B Finals, and the Pens had 2 of those, along with the Red Wings.
It's not like those Edmonton teams in the 80's or even the Pens or Wings in the 90's without a salary cap, those Pens and Wings teams perhaps should have won more than 2 cups each.
I have to admit I watched the Masters more than the Pens especially when they gave up the goal to tie
But that had to be the least inspired effort I've seen by the pens in a game where so much was on the line.
GIve credit to the Ises. They have routinely beaten the Pens to loose pucks and have made the shots they've needed to make. None of the Pens stars have acquitted themselves very well. For sure the Isles are playing better and may in fact be the better overall team........they did finish ahead of the pens in the standings
But that had to be the least inspired effort I've seen by the pens in a game where so much was on the line.
GIve credit to the Ises. They have routinely beaten the Pens to loose pucks and have made the shots they've needed to make. None of the Pens stars have acquitted themselves very well. For sure the Isles are playing better and may in fact be the better overall team........they did finish ahead of the pens in the standings
The Pens window was supposedly “closing” in 2011,12,14 and 15. Then 16 and 17 happened. The only thing this is the end of is the 18-19 season. Sullivan wants the team’s identity to be predicated on speed and finesse and that’s simply not the case anymore. This is not your father’s NHL and rebuilds don’t necessarily take a long time if done correctly.
I'll admit I had gotten to a point in 2015 that I thought this core would never win another Cup - and I was wrong, gladly so. But the core is aging and they're trending the wrong way. My concern - which I expressed in the other thread about 6 weeks ago - was that they've been too loyal to some of the guys that got them here and have made some signings/trades that will severely handicap a retooling, and it seems clear that a retooling is necessary. It's going to take some visionary and bolder moves to retool this team so that they are a true threat and I'm not sure the leadership is either willing or able to do it. But, maybe they'll prove me wrong once again.
The old saying still holds.
The PENS are now fat, dumb, happy, and rich.
What we need are some in shape, smart, not so happy hungry young players who want to get rich!
It's over for Sullivan and the PENS as we see them today!
I remember when the PENS were losing early in the season and can't count the number of posters on this board who said it's October, its just November, or December these games don't matter only March on matters.
Well it's March and April and the PENS are as bad now as they were early!
Time for a change.
Malkin, Kessel and Letang see you guys!
Get some young, good, hungry new guys and rebuild!
I had one TV with the sound on tuned into the Masters and the other TV in the room literally 6 ft away from eachother with no sound on tuned into the PENS game.
I just figured the PENS aren't going down 3-0 and they'd blow out the Islanders??
The PENS game got worse and worse so I was compelled to turn up the sound to hear what the Pittsburgh announcers were saying about the PENS.
As it turns out they were stunned too and didn't have much to say.
The PENS are now fat, dumb, happy, and rich.
What we need are some in shape, smart, not so happy hungry young players who want to get rich!
It's over for Sullivan and the PENS as we see them today!
I remember when the PENS were losing early in the season and can't count the number of posters on this board who said it's October, its just November, or December these games don't matter only March on matters.
Well it's March and April and the PENS are as bad now as they were early!
Time for a change.
Malkin, Kessel and Letang see you guys!
Get some young, good, hungry new guys and rebuild!
I had one TV with the sound on tuned into the Masters and the other TV in the room literally 6 ft away from eachother with no sound on tuned into the PENS game.
I just figured the PENS aren't going down 3-0 and they'd blow out the Islanders??
The PENS game got worse and worse so I was compelled to turn up the sound to hear what the Pittsburgh announcers were saying about the PENS.
As it turns out they were stunned too and didn't have much to say.
Last edited:
As much as I love the Pens, I completely disagree. Next year Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, and Hornquist will all be a year older and slower that this year’s team that is about to get swept by not a great team. They don’t have much salary cap room to add free agents. Their younger players are all 3rd and 4th line type players. They could probably tweak things next year and maybe make the playoffs as the 7th or 8th seed with zero chance to get anywhere, or they could make everyone available except Crosby and try to completely rebuild.
I hate the thought of doing a rebuild, but I think it’s time, And I’m very thankful for the run they’ve had.
Got to break it down to build it back up again. I actually find that part interesting, provided its done well and doesnt last too long.
The problem is Letang has a limited NTC, Malkin’s is full and no one is going to be clamoring to take on Kessel and Hornquist’s contracts. There are some attractive athletes on defense but it’s tough to speculate which will be dangled.
They got 3 with Sid, so happy for him he got those last 2....he’s in elite company wrt Cups...
If Hockey weren’t such a garbage sport run by whack job Canadians , Sid has 4 or 5....
Jmo the Cup Run is over, they look slow and not nearly as aggressive as the Islanders.
Plus whoever that bozo was on here putting Murray in the HOF after the second Cup was way off his nut, this guy isn’t close to being an elite net minder.
If Hockey weren’t such a garbage sport run by whack job Canadians , Sid has 4 or 5....
Jmo the Cup Run is over, they look slow and not nearly as aggressive as the Islanders.
Plus whoever that bozo was on here putting Murray in the HOF after the second Cup was way off his nut, this guy isn’t close to being an elite net minder.
Well. Look on the brightside. The Pens could have a record regular season, a top seed, with all of this awesome talent in their prime, the greatest young goalie in the game, being hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread......and be in the same exact position as the Penguins are in........without the 3 cups that haven't been won by Stamkos, Hedman and company and that great young goalie with 2 less cups than Murray.
The other side of the field... VT is the absolute worst.Or taking my ball and goin home !
This is what I’ve been harping on. They’ve handcuffed themselves with some of these deals. Kessel may bring decent return yet, but can’t imagine Horny or JJ will be in demand. Don’t know about Gudbranson. Then again, they were able to unload Scuderi. So, who knows? Pens seem to be following the Blackhawk’s path.
Tom Friggin Wilson. I heard on a sports talk show, a guy teasing us on who he believes is the one person responsible for many of the roster moves over the past 2 years that has gotten us to this point. And it is weird as he was teasing this into a commercial break, I immediately blurted out, "Tom Wilson".
And that is exactly who guy said. Think about it, the Ryan Reaves trade? Tom Wilson. The acquisition of Eric Grudbransen, acquiring Tanner Pearson, likely signing of Jack Johnson, all were done in the mind of Rutherford for countering Tom Wilson and players like him.
At the same time, when we have done this, not just have we wasted assets (like Sundquist and a #1 picks for Reaves) Hagelin for Pearson, salary cap in JJ, our peripheral players got slower. At the same time, the core players turned 30 and are older, and they are not as fast or explosive as before.
This has become and average speed team rather quickly. Brassard and Bjugstad are average skaters, whereas Bonino was fairly swift. Cullen is older.......a lot of the speed guys, guys like Daley could really skate from the blueline. No wonder during this season, teams like the Isles, Devils, Sabres, Wings, teams not so talented, but very fleet gave the Pens fits.
So yeah, blame Tom Wilson. He got in the heads of this franchise. So yeah, blame Jim Rutherford. Blame even Mario. But also blame Mike Sullivan for not adjusting to a bigger lineup and maybe more of a dump and chase style.
And that is exactly who guy said. Think about it, the Ryan Reaves trade? Tom Wilson. The acquisition of Eric Grudbransen, acquiring Tanner Pearson, likely signing of Jack Johnson, all were done in the mind of Rutherford for countering Tom Wilson and players like him.
At the same time, when we have done this, not just have we wasted assets (like Sundquist and a #1 picks for Reaves) Hagelin for Pearson, salary cap in JJ, our peripheral players got slower. At the same time, the core players turned 30 and are older, and they are not as fast or explosive as before.
This has become and average speed team rather quickly. Brassard and Bjugstad are average skaters, whereas Bonino was fairly swift. Cullen is older.......a lot of the speed guys, guys like Daley could really skate from the blueline. No wonder during this season, teams like the Isles, Devils, Sabres, Wings, teams not so talented, but very fleet gave the Pens fits.
So yeah, blame Tom Wilson. He got in the heads of this franchise. So yeah, blame Jim Rutherford. Blame even Mario. But also blame Mike Sullivan for not adjusting to a bigger lineup and maybe more of a dump and chase style.
It's pretty simple. Pens coaches have a limited shelf life, and this one reached his. He no doubt has sound strategies and devices good game plans. Tough tootsies. Since Mario, the players run the asylum. Some years, their talent overcomes the inefficiency and sloppy play, and they make a good run, maybe even all the way. But usually, the lazy, indifferent defense and lust for the perfect tic tac toe play gets them bounced to more fundamental teams in the playoffs. This year, a little earlier than other years.
Usually the bad teams, yes. But the Pens flip off their coach almost immediately after success.
Hits is sometimes one of the single most negative and indictment of your play. You only are hitting when you don't have the puck. So when you lead in hits, you usually are chasing the other team. And....well...............the Pens are.
Ile's 43.3 . Not sure your assessment holds much water . Just sayin.
Totally agree with the shelf-life for Penguin coaches. That is why they need to off Sully. Star players get bored and lose their creativity after playing one particular system for multiple years. They won two championships mastering Sully's speed game and pressuring and playing in the opponents zone. They obviously have tuned him out or simply don't have the guns to play that style any longer. Sully could prove to me he and his team are not dead in the water if he comes out in game 4 with something different. It is painfully clear that following the same path will lead to a sweep.
Even so, Sully as a coach, has pretty much run his course. If a new coach comes in here and provides something new for the players to focus and work hard on it may not be the end of the Crosby-Malkin cup years. Recruits mentioned how we have made moves to counteract specifically, Tom Wilson. I think that is true to some degree, although, the Pens were soft overall and needed some toughness in the lineup.
Obviously, new coach and new system or not, we need to make some changes. Kessel and Hornquist are old. We need to get younger and faster. Back to the Tom Wilson thing tho. Look at the Caps. They have toughness in their lineup, but, also have a good mix of skill. They also have a strong physical presence in TJ oshie, not to mention Ovie himself, is tough as nails.
I would like to see us acquire a TJ Oshie/Tom Wilson type instead of tailoring a lineup to play against such a player. The Pens have had a poorman's power forward in the presence of Hornquist but all the headshots appear to have caught up with him.
It seems to me that right now you have to have a well rounded team that has speed, tough guys, and skill. The more guys you have that possess all three or two of those three, the more chance you have of getting your team to adapt to any style. Of course, we are up against it and don't have cap room or depth in the system so it is going to be harder than hell to retool this team quickly and get it back to championship form. Perhaps the best we can hope for is a new coach and system in place next season and some roster tinkering, maybe that would be enough to breath some life into these beleaguered Pens.
Even so, Sully as a coach, has pretty much run his course. If a new coach comes in here and provides something new for the players to focus and work hard on it may not be the end of the Crosby-Malkin cup years. Recruits mentioned how we have made moves to counteract specifically, Tom Wilson. I think that is true to some degree, although, the Pens were soft overall and needed some toughness in the lineup.
Obviously, new coach and new system or not, we need to make some changes. Kessel and Hornquist are old. We need to get younger and faster. Back to the Tom Wilson thing tho. Look at the Caps. They have toughness in their lineup, but, also have a good mix of skill. They also have a strong physical presence in TJ oshie, not to mention Ovie himself, is tough as nails.
I would like to see us acquire a TJ Oshie/Tom Wilson type instead of tailoring a lineup to play against such a player. The Pens have had a poorman's power forward in the presence of Hornquist but all the headshots appear to have caught up with him.
It seems to me that right now you have to have a well rounded team that has speed, tough guys, and skill. The more guys you have that possess all three or two of those three, the more chance you have of getting your team to adapt to any style. Of course, we are up against it and don't have cap room or depth in the system so it is going to be harder than hell to retool this team quickly and get it back to championship form. Perhaps the best we can hope for is a new coach and system in place next season and some roster tinkering, maybe that would be enough to breath some life into these beleaguered Pens.
Ever see the Pens close to the top in hits during any of their cup years? just sayin. Don't argue with your superior on this.
Again . Your assessment holds no water . And if you're my superior ?
I'm Mike Sullivan . Putz .
Yeah . I prefer Eddie Johnson's just shoot it to the F'n net .
They have been all out of sorts pretty much the entire season .
This series is a gleaming example on there play as a whole this year .
Inconsistent . Btw . I am not Sully . But I did stay at a holiday in last night !
I know . I never thought it was very funny either .
