Pat Signals Raining Down

[pittmeister]

Let me ask , under Duzz we land avg 2 and 3 stars , and our results have been avg 6 7 wins, how off have they been? THEY BEEN ON TARGET MORE THAN THIS BOARD EACH YEAR

You're a smart mofo WannyandWalt!

You have to be blind not to see that these guys:

A.J. Davis - Consensus 4-Star Player
Charles Reeves - Rivals 4 Star Player
Todd Sibley - ESPN 4 Star Player
Carter Warren - ESPN 4 Star Player
Jerry Drake - ESPN 4 Star Player
Kaezon Pugh - Rivals 4 Star Player
Chase Pine - 247 4 Star Player
Ruben Flowers - Rivals 4 Star Player
Thomas McVittie - 247 4 Star Player


are better than these guys.....


Maurice Ffrench - Two P5 offers - third team All-ACC, signed with Chiefs
Bryce Hargrove - One P5 Offer (Rutgers) - Signed with Atlanta Falcons
Kenny Pickett - Three P5 Offers – Pre-Season Davey O'Brien Candidate
Deslin Alexandre - Three P5 Offers - Athlon Sports Pre Season 2021 All-ACC team
Cameron Bright - ZERO P5 Offers
Jason Pinnock - One P5 Offer - Drafted by New York Jets
Patrick Jones - 2 Star Player (All American) - Drafted by Vikings
Rashad Weaver - 2 Star Player (All American) - Drafted by Titans
SirVocea Dennis - Athlon Sports Pre Season 2021 All-ACC team
Calijah Kancey - Pre-season All American, Five P5 offers (GT, SC, Rutgers, Louisville, KSU)
Jimmy Morrissey - Walk-On, Second team All ACC, Drafted by the Raiders
Dane Jackson - 2 Star Player - Starts for Buffalo Bills


It seems to me that the 4 Star players are dragging Pitt down to a 6 and 7 win seasons... Maybe Pitt needs 4 star players to play like 4 star players....

Moral of the story....We don't know how it's going to turn out until they actually play on the field.

 

[joeydavid]

Why aren't these "scouts" rewarded with job offers at Universities across the country?

Why does Duzz continue to churn out defensive guys to the NFL pretty regularly?

Your answer as to why the wins haven't exceeded 7 or 8 wins is more or less due to the fact we haven't had a game changer at QB for quite some time. The QB position is treated differently when it comes to rankings. A difference maker at QB is worth more than 5 stars.

@Chris Peak was offered the director of scouting position with the stillers but couldn't leave his true love... Tuesday night podcasts.

 

[TD_6082]

The star system can be hit or miss if you go by individual player. Collectively, and over the course of time, it's actually a pretty good barometer.

As a pretty good rule of thumb, if you can recruit Top 15 classes on a yearly basis, you're going to have a pretty good roster. Anything less than that, you're program is doomed to mediocrity.

 

[cashisking884]

Why aren't these "scouts" rewarded with job offers at Universities across the country?

Why does Duzz continue to churn out defensive guys to the NFL pretty regularly?

Your answer as to why the wins haven't exceeded 7 or 8 wins is more or less due to the fact we haven't had a game changer at QB for quite some time. The QB position is treated differently when it comes to rankings. A difference maker at QB is worth more than 5 stars.

Didnt the head scout at 247 just get made the general manager of an SEC football team?

 

[cashisking884]

The star system can be hit or miss if you go by individual player. Collectively, and over the course of time, it's actually a pretty good barometer.

As a pretty good rule of thumb, if you can recruit Top 15 classes on a yearly basis, you're going to have a pretty good roster. Anything less than that, you're program is doomed to mediocrity.

Right.

The whole “these guys don’t know they are talking about” is bizarre in context of what their hit rate is on the whole across college football.

This just seems like a lot of Hawk Harrelsons bitching about sabremetrics being for nerds.

 

[Mikefln]

Right.

Why is this a difficult concept?

I’m not against us recruiting the greatest OL in the history of football and Hall of Famers at all the skill position.

But that isn’t going to happen, so the question becomes what gives us the best chance to be successful?

It’s not stacking the box with an extra blocker. If you surveyed 10 Defensive coordinators as asked them what would they prefer to face on a weekly basis in terms of the other team’s personnel and/or formation, that would be the answer 10/10 times.
That’s why OCs have gotten away from it. Shrinking the field and stacking the box is to your disadvantage.

Now some athlete that we can line up all over the field, in and out of the box, on a play by play basis, I’m all for. In fact I’m begging for those kinds of players and that kind of offensive philosophy.

Ask those same defensive coaches is they have the personnel on the current team, to actually line up and play Defense against an offense that is built like that? The answer is there is not a current team in the country whose defense is currently built to be that physical, not even our Panthers. Linebackers and safeties have gotten too small, and overall tackling ability is too poor for a defense, to handle a power offense like that. In all seriousness go back to 2018 and watch Pitt's offense. Look at the power run plays and write the yards per carry down. Watch the RPO and write the YPC down. Look at Yards per completion. Look at the opponents they played those years (UCF, PSU, and Clemson) and you will be shocked at how well they did with the straight power run game vs anything else they did that year on offense. It was maddening watching Watson gain 7 yards up the middle time after time only to try RPO or pass it then be forced to punt it.

 

[cashisking884]

Ask those same defensive coaches is they have the personnel on the current team, to actually line up and play Defense against an offense that is built like that? The answer is there is not a current team in the country whose defense is currently built to be that physical, not even our Panthers. Linebackers and safeties have gotten too small, and overall tackling ability is too poor for a defense, to handle a power offense like that. In all seriousness go back to 2018 and watch Pitt's offense. Look at the power run plays and write the yards per carry down. Watch the RPO and write the YPC down. Look at Yards per completion. Look at the opponents they played those years (UCF, PSU, and Clemson) and you will be shocked at how well they did with the straight power run game vs anything else they did that year on offense. It was maddening watching Watson gain 7 yards up the middle time after time only to try RPO or pass it then be forced to punt it.

Not really.

 

[WannyandWalt]

Pitt recruits OVERALL 6, 7 win talent PERIOD

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Ask those same defensive coaches is they have the personnel on the current team, to actually line up and play Defense against an offense that is built like that? The answer is there is not a current team in the country whose defense is currently built to be that physical, not even our Panthers. Linebackers and safeties have gotten too small, and overall tackling ability is too poor for a defense, to handle a power offense like that. In all seriousness go back to 2018 and watch Pitt's offense. Look at the power run plays and write the yards per carry down. Watch the RPO and write the YPC down. Look at Yards per completion. Look at the opponents they played those years (UCF, PSU, and Clemson) and you will be shocked at how well they did with the straight power run game vs anything else they did that year on offense. It was maddening watching Watson gain 7 yards up the middle time after time only to try RPO or pass it then be forced to punt it.

100% agree.

I spent some time with AJ Blazek, now at Vandy who spent the previous 2 seasons at NDSU. Prior to that he was at Rutgers and Iowa. NDSU rarely lands kids above a 2 star rating. They get the leftovers of the B10 and MAC schools primarily. How many kids want to go to North Dakota much less North Dakota in the winter for 5 years?

Blazek was adamant he didn't really believe NDSU's success until he saw it up close. 21/22/23 personnel. A GAP POWER. etc.. Granted they get into everything else but they've built the most powerful dynasty in football with what some would consider stone age football. I've seen them pound the rock and go toe to toe with the B10. LB's and safeties struggle to fit vs the run against that style of football today.

It absolutely can work in today's game. Didn't BC's big tailback have a field day on us 2 years ago?

 

[pittmeister]

Pitt recruits OVERALL 6, 7 win talent PERIOD

Great retort.... You're a one trick pony PERIOD.

 

[H2P-2007]

Am I correct that a few kids are announcing their decisions today? I know Fearbry is July 4.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Right.

The whole “these guys don’t know they are talking about” is bizarre in context of what their hit rate is on the whole across college football.

This just seems like a lot of Hawk Harrelsons bitching about sabremetrics being for nerds.

i think once you get past the top 100-150 players, things get muddled very quickly. that same process kind of goes with the overall rankings too.. honestly, i think the difference between a class finishing at 22 and a class finishing at 38 really is based on nothing but extremely subjective rankings that we've proven, end up wrong more often than not..

yes, these teams in the top 5-10 rankings are getting great players and we'll watch these programs in the playoffs, we know that. they are getting the elite players, the elite players are easily identified, you dont need the internet or recruiting websites to identify the elite. programs and coaches/scouts have been doing it well before rivals or scouts was on this world wide web thingy..

my point is, we cry about classes in the high 30s but all join hands in celebration when our classes are ranked in the mid 20s and we look back at those higher classes and over 50% of them never made it past year two at pitt and we wonder what in the sam hell were we so excited about in the first place..

 

[Mikefln]

i think once you get past the top 100-150 players, things get muddled very quickly. that same process kind of goes with the overall rankings too.. honestly, i think the difference between a class finishing at 22 and a class finishing at 38 really is based on nothing but extremely subjective rankings that we've proven, end up wrong more often than not..

yes, these teams in the top 5-10 rankings are getting great players and we'll watch these programs in the playoffs, we know that. they are getting the elite players, the elite players are easily identified, you dont need the internet or recruiting websites to identify the elite. programs and coaches/scouts have been doing it well before rivals or scouts was on this world wide web thingy..

my point is, we cry about classes in the high 30s but all join hands in celebration when our classes are ranked in the mid 20s and we look back at those higher classes and over 50% of them never made it past year two at pitt and we wonder what in the sam hell were we so excited about in the first place..

Damn I have been liking way too many of your post lately. It is almost like we are sharing the same brain, as you are saying exactly what I am thinking. A better way to do team rankings in by a tier system.

Top 5 is tier 1
6-15 is tier 2
16-30 tier 3
31-60 tier 4
60-90 tier 5
90+ tier 6

 

[cashisking884]

i think once you get past the top 100-150 players, things get muddled very quickly. that same process kind of goes with the overall rankings too.. honestly, i think the difference between a class finishing at 22 and a class finishing at 38 really is based on nothing but extremely subjective rankings that we've proven, end up wrong more often than not..

yes, these teams in the top 5-10 rankings are getting great players and we'll watch these programs in the playoffs, we know that. they are getting the elite players, the elite players are easily identified, you dont need the internet or recruiting websites to identify the elite. programs and coaches/scouts have been doing it well before rivals or scouts was on this world wide web thingy..

my point is, we cry about classes in the high 30s but all join hands in celebration when our classes are ranked in the mid 20s and we look back at those higher classes and over 50% of them never made it past year two at pitt and we wonder what in the sam hell were we so excited about in the first place..

But it doesn’t. That’s a narrative people come up with to justify faith in a coaching staff’s eval’s, looking at offer lists, etc.

There’s no evidence for anything you are saying. It’s just faith. You’re starting from something you want to be true and working backwards.

I believe I’ve linked in this thread the analysis of 5* classes v. all others, 4* v. all, 3*, etc.

It’s simply not true that after the 5*, it all becomes a crapshoot. Most teams have great success punching down against classes ranked lower than their own class.

 

[cashisking884]

Damn I have been liking way too many of your post lately. It is almost like we are sharing the same brain, as you are saying exactly what I am thinking. A better way to do team rankings in by a tier system.

Top 5 is tier 1
6-15 is tier 2
16-30 tier 3
31-60 tier 4
60-90 tier 5
90+ tier 6

Which is exactly what football study hall did. Put them in Tiers and looked at records vs. tiers.

5* tier did well against everybody below it.
4* did well against everybody below it.
3* did well against everybody below it.
2* below it.

 

[Mikefln]

Which is exactly what football study hall did. Put them in Tiers and looked at records vs. tiers.

5* tier did well against everybody below it.
4* did well against everybody below it.
3* did well against everybody below it.
2* below it.

Exactly but how did tier 3 do against tier 3? I do not think team ranked 30th vs 42nd matters too much where it seems you do. Of either team against team 15 is a big difference, but past 30 I think there is a lot of bleeding into one going on.

 

[WannyandWalt]

But it doesn’t. That’s a narrative people come up with to justify faith in a coaching staff’s eval’s, looking at offer lists, etc.

There’s no evidence for anything you are saying. It’s just faith. You’re starting from something you want to be true and working backwards.

I believe I’ve linked in this thread the analysis of 5* classes v. all others, 4* v. all, 3*, etc.

It’s simply not true that after the 5*, it all becomes a crapshoot. Most teams have great success punching down against classes ranked lower than their own class.

You nailed it again

 

[cashisking884]

Exactly but how did tier 3 do against tier 3? I do not think team ranked 30th vs 42nd matters too much where it seems you do. Of either team against team 15 is a big difference, but past 30 I think there is a lot of bleeding into one going on.

30 vs. 42 probably is the same tier, so it’s probably splitting hairs. I have no problem admitting that. But I don’t think recruiting services would argue otherwise, so it’s not really evidence of a fault in the rankings.

 

[WannyandWalt]

30 vs. 42 probably is the same tier, so it’s probably splitting hairs. I have no problem admitting that. But I don’t think recruiting services would argue otherwise, so it’s not really evidence of a fault in the rankings.

We recruit in the 30 to 50 tier under Duzz, hence the 7 win results

 

[9nationalchampionships]

We recruit in the 30 to 50 tier under Duzz, hence the 7 win results

So we exceeded that last year so are we now in the 8 win category?

 

[Phillypanther2]

You're a smart mofo WannyandWalt!

You have to be blind not to see that these guys:

A.J. Davis - Consensus 4-Star Player
Charles Reeves - Rivals 4 Star Player
Todd Sibley - ESPN 4 Star Player
Carter Warren - ESPN 4 Star Player
Jerry Drake - ESPN 4 Star Player
Kaezon Pugh - Rivals 4 Star Player
Chase Pine - 247 4 Star Player
Ruben Flowers - Rivals 4 Star Player
Thomas McVittie - 247 4 Star Player


are better than these guys.....


Maurice Ffrench - Two P5 offers - third team All-ACC, signed with Chiefs
Bryce Hargrove - One P5 Offer (Rutgers) - Signed with Atlanta Falcons
Kenny Pickett - Three P5 Offers – Pre-Season Davey O'Brien Candidate
Deslin Alexandre - Three P5 Offers - Athlon Sports Pre Season 2021 All-ACC team
Cameron Bright - ZERO P5 Offers
Jason Pinnock - One P5 Offer - Drafted by New York Jets
Patrick Jones - 2 Star Player (All American) - Drafted by Vikings
Rashad Weaver - 2 Star Player (All American) - Drafted by Titans
SirVocea Dennis - Athlon Sports Pre Season 2021 All-ACC team
Calijah Kancey - Pre-season All American, Five P5 offers (GT, SC, Rutgers, Louisville, KSU)
Jimmy Morrissey - Walk-On, Second team All ACC, Drafted by the Raiders
Dane Jackson - 2 Star Player - Starts for Buffalo Bills


It seems to me that the 4 Star players are dragging Pitt down to a 6 and 7 win seasons... Maybe Pitt needs 4 star players to play like 4 star players....

Moral of the story....We don't know how it's going to turn out until they actually play on the field.

Yeah the dumb Alabama and Clemson’s keep going after 4 and 5 star players. Don’t they realize their teams would be better if they would get more 2 and 3 star players.
Fortunately for us they haven’t figured it out. That’s why Pitt always has better teams than them 🤣

 

[pittmeister]

Yeah the dumb Alabama and Clemson’s keep going after 4 and 5 star players. Don’t they realize their teams would be better if they would get more 2 and 3 star players.
Fortunately for us they haven’t figured it out. That’s why Pitt always has better teams than them 🤣

LOL! 😂You're drawing conclusions that aren't there....

I'll give it to you slowly so you can understand...

1. Where did I say you shouldn't go after 4-5 star players? You're just being silly.

2. WannyandWalt keeps bringing up the fact that we are recruiting to a 6-7 win level. However, if you look at the low level players (low rating or few scholarship offers) that Narduzzi has brought in, a lot of them have exceeded expectations based on their ratings.

3. On the other hand, most of the 4 star players that he has brought in, have not played to their expected level.

That in it's self is the problem....

If top rated players played at a high level, and the low level recruits out play their ratings (as they have been), you'd have more success.

I can go back much further that the Narduzzi era to prove that point. Only hiring better recruiters and development will fix the problem. Meantime, we should wait until the players play to see what we really have...

 

[cashisking884]

We recruit in the 30 to 50 tier under Duzz, hence the 7 win results

And the thing is, if you look at the article I posted analyzing recruiting class ranking records, there are 5 outliers in that article:

K-State

Clemson

Michigan State

Boise State

South Carolina


Clemson is the only team that didn’t collapse. Why were they able to sustain it?
Because they elevated their recruiting into the next tier.
Every other team kept recruiting at the same level, and so reverted to what the recruiting nerds said they should be.

Hell, part of Michigan State’s problem was they realized they needed more talent. They couldn’t keep it going. But because they struggled to bring in 4* players, they took a chance on some questionable character kids that the big boys were passing on. And those players really helped to speed up the collapse.

 

[Teh Teh]

People believe Duzz is a good coach.

You people think Franklin is a good coach

 

[WannyandWalt]

And the thing is, if you look at the article I posted analyzing recruiting class ranking records, there are 5 outliers in that article:

K-State

Clemson

Michigan State

Boise State

South Carolina


Clemson is the only team that didn’t collapse. Why were they able to sustain it?
Because they elevated their recruiting into the next tier.
Every other team kept recruiting at the same level, and so reverted to what the recruiting nerds said they should be.

Hell, part of Michigan State’s problem was they realized they needed more talent. They couldn’t keep it going. But because they struggled to bring in 4* players, they took a chance on some questionable character kids that the big boys were passing on. And those players really helped to speed up the collapse.

I take this approach, instead of blowing smoke and pretending something is something it's not , let's push our school and coach to want more, recruit better players , not just settle for mediocrity, sorry if others accept the Pirates way of doing business and pretending it's not what you are actually witnessing each year, 6, 7 wins

 

[cashisking884]

LOL! 😂You're drawing conclusions that aren't there....

I'll give it to you slowly so you can understand...

1. Where did I say you shouldn't go after 4-5 star players? You're just being silly.

2. WannyandWalt keeps bringing up the fact that we are recruiting to a 6-7 win level. However, if you look at the low level players (low rating or few scholarship offers) that Narduzzi has brought in, a lot of them have exceeded expectations based on their ratings.

3. On the other hand, most of the 4 star players that he has brought in, have not played to their expected level.

That in it's self is the problem....

If top rated players played at a high level, and the low level recruits out play their ratings (as they have been), you'd have more success.

I can go back much further that the Narduzzi era to prove that point. Only hiring better recruiters and development will fix the problem. Meantime, we should wait until the players play to see what we really have...

It’s not true that a lot of 2* and 3* players have exceeded expectations. Most of played *exactly* how the recruiting gurus projected them to play. That’s the problem. We just have so many 3* recruits, that it seems like a lot have hit. But really the % is low. That’s just basically the entire pool we’re working with.

In terms of the 4* guys, the problem is largely how low they have been ranked and how few of them there have been.

2016: Two 4* guys with a .919 average
2017: Four 4* guys with a .916 average
2018: One 4* guy with a .917 average
2019: None
2020: Two 4* guys with a .9 average
2021: Has Three 4* guys with a .921 average

That’s 6 recruiting classes and a grand total of Ten 4* players. That’s not even close to being enough. And the average recruit ranking of them is barely a 4*. Most of these guys have a 4* average that puts them as closer to being a low to middle of the road ranked 3* guy before they would ever be a 5* player.
You’re going to have a fairly high bust rate amongst 4* guys when just about all of your 4* guys are basically a photo finish away from being 3* guys.

We’ve only signed 3 guys over those 6 cycles that were a solid 4* recruit: Hamlin, Ford, Donald. Hamlin and Ford started for us, and both were First or Second Team All-ACC while here.

Right now the current 2022 commits don’t feature a single 4* player. There is maybe one recruit even close enough to get a 4* bump, and if he does, he will fall into that barely 4* ranking.

The recruiting nerds do not say that the 3* guys will never hit or that the 4* guys will all hit. Based on the rankings they say a lot of these guys aren’t going to hit, and even the 4* guys aren’t going to be much of a guarantee. So on the whole you’re probably going to end up with a team of fairly average talent. And guess what we’ve ended up with over those 6 recruiting cycles...

 

[pittdan77]

It would be so much easier to just copy and paste the past threads that explain all of the ins and outs of recruiting rankings and Pitt's classes.

 

[WannyandWalt]

It’s not true that a lot of 2* and 3* players have exceeded expectations. Most of played *exactly* how the recruiting gurus projected them to play. That’s the problem. We just have so many 3* recruits, that it seems like a lot have hit. But really the % is low. That’s just basically the entire pool we’re working with.

In terms of the 4* guys, the problem is largely how low they have been ranked and how few of them there have been.

2016: Two 4* guys with a .919 average
2017: Four 4* guys with a .916 average
2018: One 4* guy with a .917 average
2019: None
2020: Two 4* guys with a .9 average
2021: Has Three 4* guys with a .921 average

That’s 6 recruiting classes and a grand total of Ten 4* players. That’s not even close to being enough. And the average recruit ranking of them is barely a 4*. Most of these guys have a 4* average that puts them as closer to being a low to middle of the road ranked 3* guy before they would ever be a 5* player.
You’re going to have a fairly high bust rate amongst 4* guys when just about all of your 4* guys are basically a photo finish away from being 3* guys.

We’ve only signed 3 guys over those 6 cycles that were a solid 4* recruit: Hamlin, Ford, Donald. Hamlin and Ford started for us, and both were First or Second Team All-ACC while here.

Right now the current 2022 commits don’t feature a single 4* player. There is maybe one recruit even close enough to get a 4* bump, and if he does, he will fall into that barely 4* ranking.

The recruiting nerds do not say that the 3* guys will never hit or that the 4* guys will all hit. Based on the rankings they say a lot of these guys aren’t going to hit, and even the 4* guys aren’t going to be much of a guarantee. So on the whole you’re probably going to end up with a team of fairly average talent. And guess what we’ve ended up with over those 6 recruiting cycles...

How hard is this to understand?

 

[pittmeister]

How hard is this to understand?

So how do you fix it???

 

[pittguy81]

Pitt recruits OVERALL 6, 7 win talent PERIOD

They've won 8 games 3 times since Narduzzi has been coach. So much for your PERIOD. Your trolling is substandard.

 

[pittdan77]

So how do you fix it???

This is the part nobody ever answers. Certainly fire the coach and gut the program is his answer but it's not THE answer.

 

[TD_6082]

So how do you fix it???

I think everyone really knows the answer. Pitt isn't going to go there. I'm sure we color outside the lines like every other P5 school, but they aren't going to do it on a grand scale that's necessary to compete at a high level.

 

[pittmeister]

I think everyone really knows the answer. Pitt isn't going to go there. I'm sure we color outside the lines like every other P5 school, but they aren't going to do it on a grand scale that's necessary to compete at a high level.

THIS! We can talk all day long about recruiting to a 6-7 win level, but until the administration opens up the bank vaults and do what is necessary to win (Cheat), you’ll be getting more of the same.

There are other possibilities such as a more manageable schedule, hire some up and coming aggressive recruiters, but other than that, you’ll be getting the same type of recruit.

That’s the reality…

 

[pittmeister]

So how do you fix it???

We’re waiting…..

 

[TD_6082]

THIS! We can talk all day long about recruiting to a 6-7 win level, but until the administration opens up the bank vaults and do what is necessary to win (Cheat), you’ll be getting more of the same.

There are other possibilities such as a more manageable schedule, hire some up and coming aggressive recruiters, but other than that, you’ll be getting the same type of recruit.

That’s the reality…

Yes sir. And when the administration feels like the sentiment regarding the program needs a change, they will make a coaching change and give you a fresh face, with new cliches and sound bites, throw in some references to the glory years, maybe a different style of play, but fundamentally, nothing will change.

Reluctantly over the years, I've accepted that. I'm content with a program that is reasonably competitive, with coaches and kids that fight & scrap on a weekly basis, win more than they lose, and represent the school well. I think the current staff checks all those boxes, imo.

 

[WannyandWalt]

DUZZ = VERY AVG not worth 4 million! You fix it by hiring a bright asst coach at a winning program, pay recruiters not some old washed up O cord. Pitt chooses to be mediocre and that's fine just don't think it's going to change when eghheads run the dept. Why ain't other programs coming after Duzz? To sit here and say he is a good coach is a joke. We have the easiest schedule ever this year , if he doesn't get 8 or 9 with this crap then he SHOULD be FIRED

 

[FireballZ]

Great retort.... You're a one trick pony PERIOD.

Do you think milkdud pays this guy in cow pumps per post? He had to have a nice little June. Probably puts that special cream in the state college staple.

 

[pittmeister]

Yes sir. And when the administration feels like the sentiment regarding the program needs a change, they will make a coaching change and give you a fresh face, with new cliches and sound bites, throw in some references to the glory years, maybe a different style of play, but fundamentally, nothing will change.

Reluctantly over the years, I've accepted that. I'm content with a program that is reasonably competitive, with coaches and kids that fight & scrap on a weekly basis, win more than they lose, and represent the school well. I think the current staff checks all those boxes, imo.

Some of the posters don’t want to look at facts….

When looking at the “Golden Years” of Panther Football (1973-1982), if those teams had to play in today’s environment, none of the great memories would have happened:

In 1976, Pitt had a schedule whose combined record was 63-69-2. They played 3 good teams all year (ND, PSU, Georgia) The rest were cream puffs. Compared that to the schedules Pitt has played over the last few years:

2015: 99-67

2016: 100-69

2017: 81-68

2018: 115-65

2019: 88-78

2020: 62-57

• Under today’s standards, Dorsett would’ve turned pro after his junior year. No Heisman Trophy and Pitt doesn’t win the national championship either. They probably would have finished 8-3 or 7-4, As a result, Pitt would have never gotten the great 1977 class (Green, Jackson, etc...) Anyone who thinks Dorsett would have stayed is dreaming. Think Larry Fitzgerald...
• Who knows how many other players would have turned pro before their senior year? (Marino, Dawkins, Covert, Green, Jackson, May, etc...) How would that have affected Pitt's legacy?

 

[TD_6082]

DUZZ = VERY AVG not worth 4 million! You fix it by hiring a bright asst coach at a winning program, pay recruiters not some old washed up O cord. Pitt chooses to be mediocre and that's fine just don't think it's going to change when eghheads run the dept. Why ain't other programs coming after Duzz? To sit here and say he is a good coach is a joke. We have the easiest schedule ever this year , if he doesn't get 8 or 9 with this crap then he SHOULD be FIRED

That won't fix anything. You could literally hand pick any coach in the country you want, they aren't going to be able to bring in the talent to do any better than 7 to 9 wins on average over the long haul. That's a culture that has to be cultivated by the monied boosters, and university power structure. No coach or AD can change that.

 

[cashisking884]

This is the part nobody ever answers. Certainly fire the coach and gut the program is his answer but it's not THE answer.

It is the only answer if you think recruiting can’t really be improved.

If the talent is what it is, and really isn’t going to move one direction or another based on the coach, then having a defensive oriented coach that struggles with offense in today‘s game, is probably the worst thing you can have.

This is not the era to hold your breath and hope you can field an offense that will crack the Top 80 under your head coach.