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Paul Zeise: Some ACC schools have lost their minds

pittmeister

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May 26, 2010
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Florida State hasn’t been relevant in football since Jameis Winston was on campus.

Virginia Tech hasn’t been relevant since Frank Beamer was on campus and, quite frankly, I could make a case since Beamer had Mike Vick. Miami hasn’t been relevant since Luke Campbell and Nevin Shapiro were paying for players and offering bounties.

North Carolina, Virginia and NC State???? Ha, ha! What are the people at those schools smoking? Because it must be good!

Give me a break, will you please? I mean Lawrence Taylor, Bullet Bill Dudley and Bill Cowher ain’t walking through that door anytime soon for goodness sake.

You want to tell me that Clemson is looking for a bigger bang for its buck from the ACC? OK, I might listen, as the Tigers have had some high-level success, been to the playoffs six times and won two national championships.

But even Clemson as a national brand is probably still way overrated. And, quite frankly, the Tigers have had far more the feel of a team that is winning against a weak conference than a national elite powerhouse like Alabama or Georgia.

Clemson at least has a case to be upset with the TV contracts of the ACC because the Tigers have done their part.

Those other six schools of the seven who are looking into perhaps challenging the ACC’s grant of rights so as to go out and get better deals from other conferences have to be kidding themselves. This can’t be real, can it?

These reports can’t be legitimate. They just can’t. Virginia? Virginia? What in the heck does Virginia bring to the ACC football conference? And what would it bring to one of the other conferences?

The Big Ten already has a team to beat up in the D.C. market in Maryland and the SEC already has a high academic team to beat up in Vanderbilt. What would these other conferences and their television partners want with Virginia as a football program?

And here is the thing: While on-field success is a key ingredient, the branding and size of the fan base and markets are far more important, and in that regard, I am not sure any one of these schools other than Florida State and Clemson is attractive.

That’s what makes this current discussion of schools leaving the ACC and breaking the grant of rights they all signed all so utterly delusional.

But let’s back up. In case you haven’t heard, the ACC is having their annual spring meetings this week in Florida. The major discussion is about how the ACC’s revenue streams — mostly TV money — are projected to lag behind the other major conferences and what is a possible remedy.

Here is a really good Cliffs Notes version of the issues from CBS Sports:

“Action Network and Sports Illustrated are reporting Florida State, Clemson, Miami, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Virginia and Virginia Tech as the seven schools that have met with legal teams in recent months to examine the league's grant of rights. The ACC's exclusive media rights deal with ESPN runs through 2036, several years after the conclusion of the deals that soon begin for the SEC and Big Ten. The SEC enters a 10-year media rights deal with ESPN worth $3 billion in 2024, while the Big Ten enters a seven-year deal with NBC, CBS and FOX worth more than $7 billion in total value beginning this season.”

The ACC schools screwed themselves, to be honest, and now they are unhappy about it. They all wanted so badly to show they were committed to the cause that they got into an awful grant of rights deal that has very little room for flexibility, Florida State’s athletic director Michael Alford got this ball rolling a few months ago when he said out loud that the school was a “national brand” and needs to be able to compete financially with schools in the SEC and Big Ten. He said staying in the ACC as constituted would mean FSU would fall behind maybe as much as $30 million annually if they don’t do something different and also that they would look into challenging the ACC’s grant of rights.

So now Alford and the people at Clemson and a few other schools are floating the idea of tiered payouts from the ACC to the schools based on their value. At this point, everyone gets an equal share of the pie, but FSU and Clemson contend they are basically carrying the Boston Colleges and Syracuses of the world.

Here is the thing: If you don’t share things equally, you have no conference. This is such an intellectually dishonest talking point as it does not and will not work if some schools get treated differently than others. Texas tried to pull this in the Big 12 and it nearly led to the conference completely blowing up.

Again, the grant of rights was a horrific, short-sighted, knee-jerk reaction. Now they’re all stuck with it. As part of it, it would cost a school $120 million to leave the conference and there is very little wiggle room in it to get around that.

That’s why all of these schools, especially the delusional ones like NC State and Virginia, should focus on fixing the problem and getting a better TV deal with more money. And it wouldn’t hurt to that end if they would all fix their football programs to make the conference better and more attractive.

I know. That is hard. That requires good leadership. That requires a bold and visionary strategy and, well, the ACC apparently lacks that. This thing where all of these schools are trying to get out of the ACC grant of rights is silly because at the end of the day, most of them are in a far better place now than they would be if they were free agents.

The offseason is often silly season in college athletics but this — a conference that has the basic structure and footprint to be extremely successful — talking about breaking up is about as silly as it gets.

Virginia. NC State. Give me a damn break.


https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/paul-zeise/2023/05/16/paul-zeise-sports-column-college-acc-pitt-nil-transfer-portal-tv-rights-espn/stories/202305160076
 
It would be hilarious if the ACC did disband and NC State and Virginia were completely left out in the cold. Candidly, what conference would value them?
 
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He’s a little hit-or-miss with his assessments. Florida State will always be valuable. Notre Dame is a “brand” that has the potential of carrying over their basketball prestige to football. The rest I agree with, particularly Virginia Tech.
 
I could see Maybe North Carolina and Virgina going Big Ten. Tey will not take two schools from the same state. The B10 would not want N.C. State or V tech. I doubt the SEC would want either.

The Northeast is a lot of television sets. Maybe keep the NE together and make a Northern conference to B12
 
Florida State hasn’t been relevant in football since Jameis Winston was on campus.

Virginia Tech hasn’t been relevant since Frank Beamer was on campus and, quite frankly, I could make a case since Beamer had Mike Vick. Miami hasn’t been relevant since Luke Campbell and Nevin Shapiro were paying for players and offering bounties.

North Carolina, Virginia and NC State???? Ha, ha! What are the people at those schools smoking? Because it must be good!

Give me a break, will you please? I mean Lawrence Taylor, Bullet Bill Dudley and Bill Cowher ain’t walking through that door anytime soon for goodness sake.

You want to tell me that Clemson is looking for a bigger bang for its buck from the ACC? OK, I might listen, as the Tigers have had some high-level success, been to the playoffs six times and won two national championships.

But even Clemson as a national brand is probably still way overrated. And, quite frankly, the Tigers have had far more the feel of a team that is winning against a weak conference than a national elite powerhouse like Alabama or Georgia.

Clemson at least has a case to be upset with the TV contracts of the ACC because the Tigers have done their part.

Those other six schools of the seven who are looking into perhaps challenging the ACC’s grant of rights so as to go out and get better deals from other conferences have to be kidding themselves. This can’t be real, can it?

These reports can’t be legitimate. They just can’t. Virginia? Virginia? What in the heck does Virginia bring to the ACC football conference? And what would it bring to one of the other conferences?

The Big Ten already has a team to beat up in the D.C. market in Maryland and the SEC already has a high academic team to beat up in Vanderbilt. What would these other conferences and their television partners want with Virginia as a football program?

And here is the thing: While on-field success is a key ingredient, the branding and size of the fan base and markets are far more important, and in that regard, I am not sure any one of these schools other than Florida State and Clemson is attractive.

That’s what makes this current discussion of schools leaving the ACC and breaking the grant of rights they all signed all so utterly delusional.

But let’s back up. In case you haven’t heard, the ACC is having their annual spring meetings this week in Florida. The major discussion is about how the ACC’s revenue streams — mostly TV money — are projected to lag behind the other major conferences and what is a possible remedy.

Here is a really good Cliffs Notes version of the issues from CBS Sports:

“Action Network and Sports Illustrated are reporting Florida State, Clemson, Miami, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Virginia and Virginia Tech as the seven schools that have met with legal teams in recent months to examine the league's grant of rights. The ACC's exclusive media rights deal with ESPN runs through 2036, several years after the conclusion of the deals that soon begin for the SEC and Big Ten. The SEC enters a 10-year media rights deal with ESPN worth $3 billion in 2024, while the Big Ten enters a seven-year deal with NBC, CBS and FOX worth more than $7 billion in total value beginning this season.”

The ACC schools screwed themselves, to be honest, and now they are unhappy about it. They all wanted so badly to show they were committed to the cause that they got into an awful grant of rights deal that has very little room for flexibility, Florida State’s athletic director Michael Alford got this ball rolling a few months ago when he said out loud that the school was a “national brand” and needs to be able to compete financially with schools in the SEC and Big Ten. He said staying in the ACC as constituted would mean FSU would fall behind maybe as much as $30 million annually if they don’t do something different and also that they would look into challenging the ACC’s grant of rights.

So now Alford and the people at Clemson and a few other schools are floating the idea of tiered payouts from the ACC to the schools based on their value. At this point, everyone gets an equal share of the pie, but FSU and Clemson contend they are basically carrying the Boston Colleges and Syracuses of the world.

Here is the thing: If you don’t share things equally, you have no conference. This is such an intellectually dishonest talking point as it does not and will not work if some schools get treated differently than others. Texas tried to pull this in the Big 12 and it nearly led to the conference completely blowing up.

Again, the grant of rights was a horrific, short-sighted, knee-jerk reaction. Now they’re all stuck with it. As part of it, it would cost a school $120 million to leave the conference and there is very little wiggle room in it to get around that.

That’s why all of these schools, especially the delusional ones like NC State and Virginia, should focus on fixing the problem and getting a better TV deal with more money. And it wouldn’t hurt to that end if they would all fix their football programs to make the conference better and more attractive.

I know. That is hard. That requires good leadership. That requires a bold and visionary strategy and, well, the ACC apparently lacks that. This thing where all of these schools are trying to get out of the ACC grant of rights is silly because at the end of the day, most of them are in a far better place now than they would be if they were free agents.

The offseason is often silly season in college athletics but this — a conference that has the basic structure and footprint to be extremely successful — talking about breaking up is about as silly as it gets.

Virginia. NC State. Give me a damn break.


https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/paul-zeise/2023/05/16/paul-zeise-sports-column-college-acc-pitt-nil-transfer-portal-tv-rights-espn/stories/202305160076
$120m is only the estimate of the current exit fee: which his 3X the annual operating budget of the conference...something that grows every year. It would cost a heck of a lot more than the exit fee to leave the conference when considering the legal fees and actual cost of buying out the grant of rights. ... just back napkin it at 12-13 years X at least $40m...looking at, minimally, another $500m on top of the exit fee not factoring in escalators, if one could actually buy themselves out of the contract, but there'd probably be additional lawsuits and penalties for damages. Getting close to 3/4 of a billion I'd think.

That is where these fanboy internet fanbases of some of these schools get all riled up because they believe they are better than the ACC ...that it is the ACC holding them back (looking at the moronic FSU fanbase)....and have assured spots in either the SEC or Big10, which they do not have in reality. There is a conspiracy like theory floating around the internet that a simple majority vote could dissolve the conference thus de facto terminating the GOR. That's where this 8 votes garbage come from. Even if it were true, there aren't 8 schools that can be confident they have a better alternative. So that isn't going to happen and no school can actually afford to leave for years to come.

The "bad" media contract extension that all schools happily signed in 2016 is the only reason there is an ACC Network (which had fantastic distribution in record time), and the primary reason that no school has left since Maryland. It is what separates the ACC from the B12 and Pac which have bleed members. So while it may be "bad" from a financial point of view in comparison solely to the B10 and SEC, it certainly is better than the alternative, and absolutely great from both a financial and stability point of view in comparison to the B12 and Pac. Other than that, Zeise is right.
 
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I mean Clemson, VT, and ND would be snatched up in an instant by the SEC or B1G. They are in an arms race and wouldn't want the other conference to get those territories. Those 3 are all top 25 valuable brands and they have large stadiums that are constantly filled. They would fit within the top half of either of those two conferences in sports prestige.

The other teams on that list are questionable at best for either conference, unless there is realignment within the SEC or B1G to kick out dead wood. They really are stooges at this point for the larger schools that have had lawyers looking for ways out of the GOR for 2 years now and haven't challenged it.

I believe they need 8 teams to void the agreement and there is no reality where 8 teams have a guaranteed landing spot in the SEC or B1G. The Big 12's media deal doesn't seem any better than the ACC's through 2031, so I have to imagine the only reason any of those teams would go along with the decision is if they are convinced that the GOR will be voided and they want a jump start over the rest of the ACC in getting into the Big 12, which seems unlikely.
 
I mean Clemson, VT, and ND would be snatched up in an instant by the SEC or B1G. They are in an arms race and wouldn't want the other conference to get those territories. Those 3 are all top 25 valuable brands and they have large stadiums that are constantly filled. They would fit within the top half of either of those two conferences in sports prestige.

The other teams on that list are questionable at best for either conference, unless there is realignment within the SEC or B1G to kick out dead wood. They really are stooges at this point for the larger schools that have had lawyers looking for ways out of the GOR for 2 years now and haven't challenged it.

I believe they need 8 teams to void the agreement and there is no reality where 8 teams have a guaranteed landing spot in the SEC or B1G. The Big 12's media deal doesn't seem any better than the ACC's through 2031, so I have to imagine the only reason any of those teams would go along with the decision is if they are convinced that the GOR will be voided and they want a jump start over the rest of the ACC in getting into the Big 12, which seems unlikely.
VT??
OK.
ND has 100% chosen to be where it is at.
Clemson, yes.
 
Another reality check…

Bah. This guy clearly isn't as connected as The Dude of WV, Tuxedo Yoda, or Manster
 
Good piece by Zeise. Could see B10 being interested in Va, NC, Ga Tech and SEC in Clem and FSU but like others have said....Va Tech and NC State???? IF (and it's a HUGE IF) league would break up Pitt and Louisville would be wise to connect with the Big 12.....WVU rivalry and Cinci now in would make for a nice foursome from this area.
 
Another reality check…

Exactly. This is why Pitt and the others have to maintain a rigid line. These schools signed on the line.

Pitt/Lyke should not even be throwing them the bone of “performance” or any other distribution bonuses. Pitt is more vulnerable than most To factors totally out of our control to dictate performance.

Coaches getting easily poached away, star players getting easily poached away, not nearly the same budget for regular recruiting, hostile media, opponents like Clemson ands Miami exponentially amping up their NIL…Pitt can do everything right internally and one or two small disasters can put us in the bottom tier of standings.

Whereas fat and lazy Clemson can easily pencil in going at least 11-2 most seasons. Miami can go 8-4 and still be ranked higher than similar or better Pitt, on rep alone. Similar FSU. Screw that. “Performance” Is almost certainly a subjective slope.

Spite? Envy? Yes and yes. Any other epithets they want to hurl, likely true. Too bad. Again, all of them signed the deal as it is. It needs to be followed that way. Stop waffling, Heather. You hold all the cards.
 
Good piece by Zeise. Could see B10 being interested in Va, NC, Ga Tech and SEC in Clem and FSU but like others have said....Va Tech and NC State???? IF (and it's a HUGE IF) league would break up Pitt and Louisville would be wise to connect with the Big 12.....WVU rivalry and Cinci now in would make for a nice foursome from this area.
Who knows when or where all of this ends but presumably any addition would have to add to an already gigantic payout for the Big/Sec. Would the Sec take UNC and UVA to prevent them from going to the Big? Would those schools take a smaller payout (relative to the other Sec schools) to join the Sec? It would seem likely that the Big would be interested in Clem/FSU. Would the Sec take them to block the Big? What would Florida/SCar have to say about that (if anything)?

I can't see either the Big/Sec having much interest in VT/NCSt. But Pitt/VT/NCSt/Lou joining WV/Cinci...they would have a nice little mid-atlantic pod that would be competitive and somewhat lucrative.

It also seems that when teams move conferences...it breaks after 95% of the deal is done. So, we hear about it just before the ink is dry.
 
I think performance incentives are fair. Pitt’s payout for going to the Peach Bowl was about $8M. That money got divided up equally among the conference members. That’s fine, but I do think there’s an argument for a bigger cut by the team that actually won the games to get there. So instead of Pitt getting whatever the conference share is, what if Pitt instead got 50% of the payout for the bowl that it played in, and the other 50% from the conference pool? Same with the NCAA tournament distributions. Just seems like a more egalitarian method, and puts everyone on the same page of what you need to do to make more money than the “floor” set by the media distributions. Other conferences do this with the playoff only - Georgia got an extra $4M from the SEC for playing in the semifinal and the championship.

Same with the playoff - and especially the expanded playoff, which is going to raise the revenues significantly. The expanded playoff revenues are a big part of what’s driving this.
 
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The "bad" media contract extension that all schools happily signed in 2016 is the only reason there is an ACC Network (which had fantastic distribution in record time), and the primary reason that no school has left since Maryland. It is what separates the ACC from the B12 and Pac which have bleed members. So while it may be "bad" from a financial point of view in comparison solely to the B10 and SEC, it certainly is better than the alternative, and absolutely great from both a financial and stability point of view in comparison to the B12 and Pac. Other than that, Zeise is right.
I think the "bad" media deal is going to end up outperforming a lot of expectations by the time it's all said and done. Most of the negativity is driven by the same people that have told us the Big12 Tier 3 revenue was massive.

TV people want the ACC to exist. If these schools with such a high opinion of their value want to be paid more, they should probably have some success on the field. Nobody in the "Magnificent Seven" who isn't named Clemson has done anything to advance the conference's perception in football beyond recruiting wins and preseason poll standings.

Time to put up or shut up.
 
I think B10 or SEC would take UNC any day of the week over VT.

I mean Clemson, VT, and ND would be snatched up in an instant by the SEC or B1G. They are in an arms race and wouldn't want the other conference to get those territories. Those 3 are all top 25 valuable brands and they have large stadiums that are constantly filled. They would fit within the top half of either of those two conferences in sports prestige.

The other teams on that list are questionable at best for either conference, unless there is realignment within the SEC or B1G to kick out dead wood. They really are stooges at this point for the larger schools that have had lawyers looking for ways out of the GOR for 2 years now and haven't challenged it.

I believe they need 8 teams to void the agreement and there is no reality where 8 teams have a guaranteed landing spot in the SEC or B1G. The Big 12's media deal doesn't seem any better than the ACC's through 2031, so I have to imagine the only reason any of those teams would go along with the decision is if they are convinced that the GOR will be voided and they want a jump start over the rest of the ACC in getting into the Big 12, which seems unlikely.
 
I said the same thing when I saw the initial report - there are some schools on the list that have a very over inflated opinion of themselves. It was a nothing burger when it first came out...and it's still a nothing burger.
 
I love when FSU throws up the TV ratings/revenue chart. I would think you would draw better than Pitt, when the latter just gets fed noon games on the ACC Network.
 
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I love when FSU throws up the TV ratings/revenue chart. I would think you would draw better than Pitt, when the latter just gets fed noon games on the ACC Network.
I would hope the biggest fan base in the ACC could have decent ratings. Easy to ignore that they should be way better. It's not like they're playing meaningful games in late October or November.
 
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I would hope the biggest fan base in the ACC could have decent ratings. Easy to ignore that they should be way better. It's not like they're playing meaningful games in late October or November.


Imagine what Florida State's television rating could have been over these last seven years if they were anywhere near as good as they think they are. Their best finish over that time in the ACC is 5-3.

Here is a list of the schools that have had a better than 5-3 season in ACC play since the last time Florida State bettered that record:

Clemson
Louisville
NC State
Syracuse
Wake
Virginia Tech
Miami
Virginia
North Carolina
Pitt

And if you want to get technical, Notre Dame too, even though they were only in the league one season.

Also note, that is literally every other team in their division except Boston College.

Hey, Florida State, you want to make more money, here's an idea. Stop sucking at football. You are the most advantaged program in the conference, and really only Clemson and Miami are even close, and yet you keep on spitting the bit. That isn't anyone's fault but your own.
 
What will the proposed new revenue formula do to the already biased ACC officiating.
 
$120m is only the estimate of the current exit fee: which his 3X the annual operating budget of the conference...something that grows every year. It would cost a heck of a lot more than the exit fee to leave the conference when considering the legal fees and actual cost of buying out the grant of rights. ... just back napkin it at 12-13 years X at least $40m...looking at, minimally, another $500m on top of the exit fee not factoring in escalators, if one could actually buy themselves out of the contract, but there'd probably be additional lawsuits and penalties for damages. Getting close to 3/4 of a billion I'd think.

That is where these fanboy internet fanbases of some of these schools get all riled up because they believe they are better than the ACC ...that it is the ACC holding them back (looking at the moronic FSU fanbase)....and have assured spots in either the SEC or Big10, which they do not have in reality. There is a conspiracy like theory floating around the internet that a simple majority vote could dissolve the conference thus de facto terminating the GOR. That's where this 8 votes garbage come from. Even if it were true, there aren't 8 schools that can be confident they have a better alternative. So that isn't going to happen and no school can actually afford to leave for years to come.

The "bad" media contract extension that all schools happily signed in 2016 is the only reason there is an ACC Network (which had fantastic distribution in record time), and the primary reason that no school has left since Maryland. It is what separates the ACC from the B12 and Pac which have bleed members. So while it may be "bad" from a financial point of view in comparison solely to the B10 and SEC, it certainly is better than the alternative, and absolutely great from both a financial and stability point of view in comparison to the B12 and Pac. Other than that, Zeise is right.
Just wondering. With the astronomical cost of leaving the ACC. How did Maryland do it?
 
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