Pens and Cavs

[Sean Miller Fan]

With Pittsburgh and Cleveland both 1 win away from having a chance to go baaaack to baaack (to the tune of Drake), its amazing to me that these 2 franchises, despite being in each other's backyard, despite a fairly populated area (Youngstown/Sharon/New Castle) sitting halfway between each city, that there has been no cross-marketing between these franchises at all.

During the whole LeBron I/Sid/LeBron II era, there should have been a minimum of 1 regular season game per year in each city. There's 41 home games per year, both franchises could have built their brand a little more by exposing it to many more people who normally could care less about the team.

Would Cleveland become Pens territory? Would Pittsburgh become Cavs territory? No. But maybe each franchise could have developed a small niche fanbase in each city. I'm talking billboards and commercials in each city with LeBron wearing a Pens jersey and Sid wearing a Cavs jersey with some catchy slogan. Maybe during the Pens games, they show Cavs highlights and vice versa for Cavs games. Have LeBron sit behind the Pens bench when the Pens play in Cle. Have Sid sit courtside when the Cavs play in Pgh.

It just seems like it would have taken an extremely small amount of effort for both franchises to at least give this a shot.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

What's more interesting and telling is that one league pampers its team with the top player, and the other screws it.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

What's more interesting and telling is that one league pampers its team with the top player, and the other screws it.

That's the Canadien mentality. They don't market their stars....and there is no "brotherhood" between NHL players. Yea, LeBron gets into it from time to time but its an unwritten NBA rule that you dont cheapshot stars....and if you do, they might throw you out of the league. On the flip side, Canadiens get off on thugs cheapshotting stars.

 

[SVPanther]

Pittsburgh doesn't do NBA basketball. Just the way it is.

 

[BFo8]

That's the Canadien mentality. They don't market their stars....and there is no "brotherhood" between NHL players. Yea, LeBron gets into it from time to time but its an unwritten NBA rule that you dont cheapshot stars....and if you do, they might throw you out of the league. On the flip side, Canadiens get off on thugs cheapshotting stars.

Slight difference here, as good as Crosby is Lebron probably top 3 player all time. He definitely gets the Jordan treatment. Crosby not on the Gretzky type level.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Slight difference here, as good as Crosby is Lebron probably top 3 player all time. He definitely gets the Jordan treatment. Crosby not on the Gretzky type level.

No one is, not even Mario. I do think Sid ends up in the next level down with guys like Messier and Yzerman if he can avoid too many big head hits going forward (unlikely).

 

[CaptainMurphy]

What's more interesting and telling is that one league pampers its team with the top player, and the other screws it.

This series has been so lopsided with calls that it makes me wonder if the NHL is hellbent on having a Canadian cup winner after 24 years of futility. I'm not one to give much credence to conspiracy theories but the Daley goal was a clear terrible overturn. I've never heard the national announcers question so many non - calls, most in favour of the Sens. Hard to explain the play near the end where they essentially sat on Sid for about five seconds during a good scoring opportunity.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Pittsburgh doesn't do NBA basketball. Just the way it is.

Yes, I agree. But a Cavs vs (random NBA team) game at PPG in February sells out of marketed properly and its a great opportunity for the Cavs to build their brand in Western PA.

Not sure how a regular season Pens game would do in Cleveland but it wouldn't surprise me if it did really well as a once a year thing.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

This series has been so lopsided with calls that it makes me wonder if the NHL is hellbent on having a Canadian cup winner after 24 years of futility. I'm not one to give much credence to conspiracy theories but the Daley goal was a clear terrible overturn. I've never heard the national announcers question so many non - calls, most in favour of the Sens. Hard to explain the play near the end where they essentially sat on Sid for about five seconds during a good scoring opportunity.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Leave this stuff to the experts (me). Well for the longest time the Cavs played an exhibition game in Pittsburgh. And for the longest time, the Pens were Cleveland's adapted team. Then Columbus came into the NHL, and they really didn't like Eastern OH being mostly Penguin fans, getting FSP for Penguins games, etc...and they made a concerted effort and through FSP-Ohio to capture the Cleveland market.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

This series has been so lopsided with calls that it makes me wonder if the NHL is hellbent on having a Canadian cup winner after 24 years of futility. I'm not one to give much credence to conspiracy theories but the Daley goal was a clear terrible overturn. I've never heard the national announcers question so many non - calls, most in favour of the Sens. Hard to explain the play near the end where they essentially sat on Sid for about five seconds during a good scoring opportunity.

The Daley goal getting negated was a LOL moment of (predictable) absurdity for sure. Likewise the predictably of the fabricated 5 on 3 penalty they gave (purposeful word) Ottawa after the Pens scored one they couldn't take away. That sequence was Toronto hell bent on keeping Ottawa (aka Canada) alive.

That doesn't negate the chances the Pens had which were numerous. Anderson made a couple above average saves but most of the time the Pens were simply not hitting his vulnerable spots like they had been the past couple games.

Ah well, if they come thru on Thursday they'll still be in the finals AND Mario and the city will have gotten a few more million out of having the game 7. But they're gonna feel a bigger monkey on the back. And it's gonna be clutch and grab borefest for Ottawa that will eclipse even the tedious septic tank sludge of that first game, I fear. I actually almost dread it.

 

[Pitt79]

That's the Canadien mentality. They don't market their stars....and there is no "brotherhood" between NHL players. Yea, LeBron gets into it from time to time but its an unwritten NBA rule that you dont cheapshot stars....and if you do, they might throw you out of the league. On the flip side, Canadiens get off on thugs cheapshotting stars.

That's the truth! If the NHL marketed and supported stars the way the NBA does, the Pens might have 10 Cups by now! But moron Canadians masturbate over some worthless, talentless slugs from Ontario who can barely skate, beating down the highly skilled stars and winning games 1-0 with the help of the idiot Canadian refs not calling the penalties.

 

[pitt2533]

Slight difference here, as good as Crosby is Lebron probably top 3 player all time. He definitely gets the Jordan treatment. Crosby not on the Gretzky type level.

Agree he is not on that level. But frankly the meat heads running the NHL today would never allow a player to get to that level again with the horrific officiating and the beating they allow their stars to take.

 

[pitt2533]

This series has been so lopsided with calls that it makes me wonder if the NHL is hellbent on having a Canadian cup winner after 24 years of futility. I'm not one to give much credence to conspiracy theories but the Daley goal was a clear terrible overturn. I've never heard the national announcers question so many non - calls, most in favour of the Sens. Hard to explain the play near the end where they essentially sat on Sid for about five seconds during a good scoring opportunity.

Officiating is absolutely horrific in this series. The clutching and grabbing is back in full force and the refs are calling very few of the penalties on the Sens. Just awful.

 

[Pitt79]

Slight difference here, as good as Crosby is Lebron probably top 3 player all time. He definitely gets the Jordan treatment. Crosby not on the Gretzky type level.

Mario is probably top 3 of all time too, the NHL favored the worthless Ontario slugs over him too.

 

[Pitt79]

the Daley goal was a clear terrible overturn. I've never heard the national announcers question so many non - calls, most in favour of the Sens. Hard to explain the play near the end where they essentially sat on Sid for about five seconds during a good scoring opportunity.

True! That overturned goal was BS, all the announcers even agreed, GOOD GOAL! Anderson fell down on his own, and you're allowed t swat at a loose puck in the blue area.

All I can say is fcck Canadian teams and the Original 6 while you're at it.

It doesn't make sense though as far as TV? Nashville/Ottawa? You'd think the league would prefer Pittsburgh defending their title if they where bottom line minded.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

Agree he is not on that level. But frankly the meat heads running the NHL today would never allow a player to get to that level again with the horrific officiating and the beating they allow their stars to take.

And remember, it was Edmonton itself that saw fit to keep some goons on its teams to protect Gretzky and the other skills guys they had. The league left it up to them. The Pens never truly realized that necessity, and still don't. Oddly at one point they brought in McSorley yet seemed to shackle him from doing what he did best ... they were trying to use him as a real player! And they did the same with Caufield, Laraque, etc. It was crazy. You have a phaser like that, don't waste time setting them on Stun. It's gotta be Kill.

 

[Pitt79]

Yes, I agree. But a Cavs vs (random NBA team) game at PPG in February sells out of marketed properly and its a great opportunity for the Cavs to build their brand in Western PA.

Not sure how a regular season Pens game would do in Cleveland but it wouldn't surprise me if it did really well as a once a year thing.

They have an AHL team that does well and won their league last year, The Monsters.

Pittsburgh never had an NBA team. I wonder if it would work? I might start watching and rooting for a Pittsburgh team in black and gold unis. I was a Bulls fan from the '70s to the '00s but got bored with the NBA as a whole.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

They have an AHL team that does well and won their league last year, The Monsters.

Pittsburgh never had an NBA team. I wonder if it would work? I might start watching and rooting for a Pittsburgh team in black and gold unis. I was a Bulls fan from the '70s to the '00s but got bored with the NBA as a whole.

There s a general snob kind of thing among college hoops fans who disdain the NBA (esp in Pgh where we never really had it). Some of it on the boards here seem more like friendly trolling. But there is something, can't put my finger on it exactly, I just don't like about the game at that level. I totally acknowledge the higher "talent" level. But it always looks like the game is slower... almost SMALLER might be the word. The players look ... chunkier? ... than they did as college players. And bored, joyless. One eye on the game and the other on their posse thinking of the club they're gonna hit when the game ends? The dramatics and posturing and one upping the coaches, all of it is generally a turnoff too. But perhaps if exposed regularly to a local team I would warm up to it more. I have to say I did enjoy it in the Bird/Magic days...

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Mario is probably top 3 of all time too, the NHL favored the worthless Ontario slugs over him too.

"Probably"? No. He is. Top two.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

There s a general snob kind of thing among college hoops fans who disdain the NBA (esp in Pgh where we never really had it). Some of it on the boards here seem more like friendly trolling. But there is something, can't put my finger on it exactly, I just don't like about the game at that level. I totally acknowledge the higher "talent" level. But it always looks like the game is slower... almost SMALLER might be the word. The players look ... chunkier? ... than they did as college players. And bored, joyless. One eye on the game and the other on their posse thinking of the club they're gonna hit when the game ends? The dramatics and posturing and one upping the coaches, all of it is generally a turnoff too. But perhaps if exposed regularly to a local team I would warm up to it more. I have to say I did enjoy it in the Bird/Magic days...

Yeah, I really enjoyed it during the Bird/Magic/Doc J days. Much more than now, much more than even the Jordan days. The Lakers always had a fairly clear path to the finals with their loaded teams, but in the East the Celts/Sixer finals were epic.

Of course a difference between the NHL and the NBA is that they would devise a system to reward lower seeded teams with easier paths and also would try at least to match the top teams deeper in the playoffs. The NHL just does not care about marketing. It is bunch of Canadian hillbillies, hell bent on trying to make this "americanized", that they are going to do there thing.

 

[pittdan77]

The NBA is a train wreck this season. It's as dull and lifeless as it could possibly be.

I attended a Sabres vs Wings game in Cleveland many, many moons ago. Those two teams were fairly well represented although Detroit was definitely the better team. But I think those two franchises carried that market, for the most part, if you could call it that, back then.

 

[DiehardPanther]

A Golden State vs Cleveland matchup is going to destroy the NHL Finals in the Ratings. The NHL is a fringe sport.

 

[bubba31]

A Golden State vs Cleveland matchup is going to destroy the NHL Finals in the Ratings. The NHL is a fringe sport.

no doubt....

 

[Gorachee]

Yes, I agree. But a Cavs vs (random NBA team) game at PPG in February sells out of marketed properly and its a great opportunity for the Cavs to build their brand in Western PA.

Not sure how a regular season Pens game would do in Cleveland but it wouldn't surprise me if it did really well as a once a year thing.

They did have exhibition games at the Pete. I agree that is not the same as a regular season game.

 

[Pitt79]

There s a general snob kind of thing among college hoops fans who disdain the NBA (esp in Pgh where we never really had it). Some of it on the boards here seem more like friendly trolling. But there is something, can't put my finger on it exactly, I just don't like about the game at that level. I totally acknowledge the higher "talent" level. But it always looks like the game is slower... almost SMALLER might be the word. The players look ... chunkier? ... than they did as college players. And bored, joyless. One eye on the game and the other on their posse thinking of the club they're gonna hit when the game ends? The dramatics and posturing and one upping the coaches, all of it is generally a turnoff too. But perhaps if exposed regularly to a local team I would warm up to it more. I have to say I did enjoy it in the Bird/Magic days...

I was a fan of the Bulls, pre-Jordan and the entire Jordan Era. Then they slid to oblivion pretty much the last 20 years and I don't live near Chicago. Also, pre-Jordan was pre-Mario, and I never watched a single Penguins game in the days before Mario Lemiuex... yes, I am a BAND WAGON PENS FAN, who didn't watch hockey even a minute before #66. So Pens replaced NBA for me post-Jordan. I think I could be a fan of NBA, but the problem is, I am not passionate about any team anymore? I live near the Wizards, but meh, never turned me on. Strange, but a Pittsburgh team would probably draw me in. But I doubt it ever happens.

 

[SVPanther]

Taking away the hand check was the death of the NBA game for me. Sadly, it's passed into the college game.

 

[Pitt79]

A Golden State vs Cleveland matchup is going to destroy the NHL Finals in the Ratings. The NHL is a fringe sport.

The NHL is like Trump and his base, they might have 20% of the vote, but they cater to their agenda. They cater to the real puck heads who don't want to see skill, who want to see goons beat up skilled stars and win on lucky bounces, etc. they want to watch the stupid fights where guys are stumbling around on skates like drunks, punching each others helmets, etc. They get off on bragging about guys losing teeth and coming back into the game! I think they are morons for not protecting their mouths. They don't cheer for skill at the highest level, they cheer to that to be squashed.

I doubt for a minute that they care much about this matchup. A lot of their biggest fans are happy that stars are eliminated! Outside of Pittsburgh Crosby is very unpopular, they cheer for goons to tackle him and disrupt the greatest skill moves in the sport.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

The Daley goal getting negated was a LOL moment of (predictable) absurdity for sure. Likewise the predictably of the fabricated 5 on 3 penalty they gave (purposeful word) Ottawa after the Pens scored one they couldn't take away. That sequence was Toronto hell bent on keeping Ottawa (aka Canada) alive.

I thought the Daley goal was going to get negated as soon as they showed that the ref didn't call it a goal. He wasn't even looking at the Daley/Anderson interaction (was looking straight down into the net) and still didn't call it when it was clear that the puck hit the back of the net. I know it was put on the board prior to the review but their hesitation in even giving the Pens the goal was telling.

As for the first penalty that led to the 5 on 3, what a joke. I think the commentators have been decently fair and have pointed out the non-calls the Sens have been getting on occasion. But on that one they made the stupid comment that the play, when slowed down, didn't do the call justice. What the hell does that mean? Slo-mo clearly showed the Sens player clutching and grabbing and initiating all of the contact. Was it any different in real time?

 

[Darth_VadEER]

When the Cavs had Lebron and Shaq I saw them play an exhibition game at the Pete. Maybe against the Jazz.

PGH just doesn't care about NBA. I remember going to bars to watch the playoffs and being the only guy interested.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

There s a general snob kind of thing among college hoops fans who disdain the NBA (esp in Pgh where we never really had it). Some of it on the boards here seem more like friendly trolling. But there is something, can't put my finger on it exactly, I just don't like about the game at that level. I totally acknowledge the higher "talent" level. But it always looks like the game is slower... almost SMALLER might be the word. The players look ... chunkier? ... than they did as college players. And bored, joyless. One eye on the game and the other on their posse thinking of the club they're gonna hit when the game ends? The dramatics and posturing and one upping the coaches, all of it is generally a turnoff too. But perhaps if exposed regularly to a local team I would warm up to it more. I have to say I did enjoy it in the Bird/Magic days...

If you live in a city with a NBA team, it's much more fun.

 

[Pitt79]

PGH just doesn't care about NBA. I remember going to bars to watch the playoffs and being the only guy interested.

In the late '80s/early '90s, I think there was more interest in Pittsburgh for NBA.

 

[BFo8]

No one has mentioned yet that Cleveland already had an NHL franchise, and did not support it.

 

[Pitt79]

No one has mentioned yet that Cleveland already had an NHL franchise, and did not support it.

Cleveland Barons in the '70s. Is it just because I was in Pittsburgh then and nobody cared about hockey in Pittsburgh in the '70s? Or was hockey even less popular then?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

A Golden State vs Cleveland matchup is going to destroy the NHL Finals in the Ratings. The NHL is a fringe sport.

Huh? Uh, yea. The NHL better hope it outdraws the Champions League final. The NHL is light years behind the NBA.

 

[Pitt79]

Huh? Uh, yea. The NHL better hope it outdraws the Champions League final. The NHL is light years behind the NBA.

The NHL is sort of like Trump's base. Don't mean to make this political, but it's a good analogy. It's maybe 20% of the population that are the stereotype puck heads who love it the way it is, who love that they don't celebrate like in other sports, that like to see hard working but talented slugs beat up prima donna stars and beat them because the refs don't call the penalties, who like the stupid fights and buy into "the code" like WWE fans who think it's real, who like to see talented, skillful teams lose by being beaten up and fouled, and I won't get into any possible "cultural" things. So the league caters to that 20% pretty much exclusively, rather than try to market the game to the other 80% by making it more like what they might want to see. It's almost like the league itself roots for the stars and the star studded teams to lose to hard working "regular guys" who win by punching them in the mouth while the ref looks the other way. It's strange in the sense that it probably costs them millions, but they don't seem to care. Of course they will never beat the NBA.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Huh? Uh, yea. The NHL better hope it outdraws the Champions League final. The NHL is light years behind the NBA.

The NHL is sort of like Trump's base. Don't mean to make this political, but it's a good analogy. It's maybe 20% of the population that are the stereotype puck heads who love it the way it is, who love that they don't celebrate like in other sports, that like to see hard working but talented slugs beat up prima donna stars and beat them because the refs don't call the penalties, who like the stupid fights and buy into "the code" like WWE fans who think it's real, who like to see talented, skillful teams lose by being beaten up and fouled, and I won't get into any possible "cultural" things. So the league caters to that 20% pretty much exclusively, rather than try to market the game to the other 80% by making it more like what they might want to see. It's almost like the league itself roots for the stars and the star studded teams to lose to hard working "regular guys" who win by punching them in the mouth while the ref looks the other way. It's strange in the sense that it probably costs them millions, but they don't seem to care. Of course they will never beat the NBA.

I pretty much agree but maybe you can say that's what the league needs to do to stay successful. The league makes its money in Canada. Its a Canadien league. They cant afford to lose a Canadien audience. They need the thuggery and dont want pretty European free-flowing.

And really, lete be honest, how many more people are going to become hockey fans if its more free-flowing and less Canadien? The NHL has accepted that it is nothing more than a fringe/niche sport in the USA and it does pretty well considering.

 

[Pitt79]

I pretty much agree but maybe you can say that's what the league needs to do to stay successful. The league makes its money in Canada. Its a Canadien league. They cant afford to lose a Canadien audience. They need the thuggery and dont want pretty European free-flowing.

And really, lete be honest, how many more people are going to become hockey fans if its more free-flowing and less Canadien? The NHL has accepted that it is nothing more than a fringe/niche sport in the USA and it does pretty well considering.

The thuggery? the fights aren't even good, they can't set themselves on the skates and throw all the punches off balance and hit guys in the side of a helmet, refs stand and watch for a minute, then pretend there is urgency to break it up. I usually take a whiz during the fights, because they are boring.

Some of the best games are when the skill teams are on fire in the regular season when they call the penalties, like earlier this year when the Pens beat the Caps 8-7. Then in the playoffs we get a lot of snoozers where everyone is tackled and no whistles are blown and then some lucky slug bounces a puck off of someone's skate into the net for a 1-0 upset by the 8 seed over the #1.

As a Pens fan, I've found it frustrating, for every one of their 4 Cup years, there where 3 other years where they had the best superstar skill players, Sid, Malkin, Mario, Jagr, Kessell, Francis, etc - they've had studs. and they get beat in the playoffs by inferior thuggery as the refs refuse to call the fouls.

 

[Black Panther]

Leave this stuff to the experts (me). Well for the longest time the Cavs played an exhibition game in Pittsburgh. And for the longest time, the Pens were Cleveland's adapted team. Then Columbus came into the NHL, and they really didn't like Eastern OH being mostly Penguin fans, getting FSP for Penguins games, etc...and they made a concerted effort and through FSP-Ohio to capture the Cleveland market.

That's the reason in a nutshell.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

The thuggery? the fights aren't even good, they can't set themselves on the skates and throw all the punches off balance and hit guys in the side of a helmet, refs stand and watch for a minute, then pretend there is urgency to break it up. I usually take a whiz during the fights, because they are boring.

Some of the best games are when the skill teams are on fire in the regular season when they call the penalties, like earlier this year when the Pens beat the Caps 8-7. Then in the playoffs we get a lot of snoozers where everyone is tackled and no whistles are blown and then some lucky slug bounces a puck off of someone's skate into the net for a 1-0 upset by the 8 seed over the #1.

As a Pens fan, I've found it frustrating, for every one of their 4 Cup years, there where 3 other years where they had the best superstar skill players, Sid, Malkin, Mario, Jagr, Kessell, Francis, etc - they've had studs. and they get beat in the playoffs by inferior thuggery as the refs refuse to call the fouls.

You definitely described game 1 of this series ... And game 2 for the most part ... And what I fully expect and dread game 7 will be.

I'll say in other games it was slightly more open. Last night the Pens did get some chances ... And plunked most the shots right into the goalies gut. To be fair they did score a legit 1st goal but Toronto ordered it waived off.

And if Ottawa wins 1-0 in 5 OT on 6 shots on goal to the Pens 4, with nobody but Scarlett Fleury watching by the end, it'll be fine with Colon Campbell (if even alive... who'd know) and Mike MilBully.