Pens Off-season begins with ..
- Thread starter PittCity
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I would trade anyone besides Crosby if we got a good return.
he would'a been my first choice but there is a movement for him to stay now.......... idk why .
He's a special offensive talent. But like Malkin he needs to not lose his mind and commit dumb penalties or abandon the scheme everytime a goon baits him with a cheap shot. But the coach (or whoever actually pulls the strings) needs to value reliable stay at home D-men like Cole to match up with Letang.
You don’t trade right-shot top pairing defensemen unless you have to because they are very rare. That’s like trading a number one left-handed pitcher. You’re just not going to get back comparable value.
Now, that goes out the window if maybe you’re able to sign Erik Karlsson or something crazy like that and you just need to dump Letang’s contract. At that point, they won’t have any trouble finding suitors – because right-handed defensemen who can play 30 minutes per night are so rare.
However, I don’t think that scenario is any more likely to happen than Pittsburgh trading Letang. Also, even if they could somehow sign 65, I’d still like to keep 58 and would look to deal away other contracts. Imagine being able to roll out those two guys every other shift in the playoffs. That would be as good as anyone in the NHL.
Pittsburgh has two good defensemen on its roster — Letang and Dumoulin. The rest are all very average or worse.
I like Maatta a lot. I genuinely think he’s a good hockey player who will help Chicago — probably in their bottom pairing. However, he was definitely a spare part on this team. Hopefully, they can deal Johnson as well. He was an absolutely horrible signing last year and he became completely redundant once they traded for Gudbranson.
With Kessel looking like he has to stay — which is extraordinarily difficult to believe — they have to find other overvalued contracts to move. This is obviously just the start. I would imagine that Hornqvist will also be going out the door at some point this off-season. I love that guy! However, he has had a lot of concussions in a fairly short span of time and he is clearly a step or two slower than he was as recently as 2017. I think the end is much closer for him than many currently realize.
Now, that goes out the window if maybe you’re able to sign Erik Karlsson or something crazy like that and you just need to dump Letang’s contract. At that point, they won’t have any trouble finding suitors – because right-handed defensemen who can play 30 minutes per night are so rare.
However, I don’t think that scenario is any more likely to happen than Pittsburgh trading Letang. Also, even if they could somehow sign 65, I’d still like to keep 58 and would look to deal away other contracts. Imagine being able to roll out those two guys every other shift in the playoffs. That would be as good as anyone in the NHL.
Pittsburgh has two good defensemen on its roster — Letang and Dumoulin. The rest are all very average or worse.
I like Maatta a lot. I genuinely think he’s a good hockey player who will help Chicago — probably in their bottom pairing. However, he was definitely a spare part on this team. Hopefully, they can deal Johnson as well. He was an absolutely horrible signing last year and he became completely redundant once they traded for Gudbranson.
With Kessel looking like he has to stay — which is extraordinarily difficult to believe — they have to find other overvalued contracts to move. This is obviously just the start. I would imagine that Hornqvist will also be going out the door at some point this off-season. I love that guy! However, he has had a lot of concussions in a fairly short span of time and he is clearly a step or two slower than he was as recently as 2017. I think the end is much closer for him than many currently realize.
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No, that’s silly.
Those two statements are each exactly wrong. It’s an easy fix though. Just flip-flop them and you’ll finally have it right.
There’s a reason why one guy led the team in minutes for like the 4000th straight season while the other one was a healthy scratch in the playoffs for the second year in a row.
Those two statements are each exactly wrong. It’s an easy fix though. Just flip-flop them and you’ll finally have it right.
There’s a reason why one guy led the team in minutes for like the 4000th straight season while the other one was a healthy scratch in the playoffs for the second year in a row.
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It's not a blockbuster trade but I think it is a trade that makes sense for both teams and trading Maatta was somewhat expected ...
- Chicago needs to improve their defensive core badly and likely feel Matta can help although they probably will be making additional changes on their blueline ....... I think they see Maatta as a two time Stanley Cup winner, still young but with a lot of experience, pretty solid positionally and a smart player ...... his problems are that at age 24 his body has been beaten up ..... multiple shoulder injuries and at least two shoulder surgeries (and he had another shoulder injury this season for which he sat out a couple months), a hip problem/injury, thyroid cancer surgery (for which he should be cured), etc. ..... Chicago will have to hope that his injuries are in the past and he can stay healthy .... I think his injuries have decreased his physicality which is becoming a more important factor recently as we saw in the Stanley Cup Playoffs the last two seasons ..... of course, a big issue is his poor skating in a day and age where more speed is needed ..... The Penguins had 9 defensemen under one way contracts and needed to move a D-man or two as the cap hit was too much ...... the Pens see it as trading a player with a lot of injuries, too slow, a healthy scratch in the playoffs, and it will free up much needed cap space relieving some of the jam on the blueline and Maatta still had some trade value..... Jack Johnson and Maatta were the two most likely to be traded (and maybe they would rather have traded Johnson as evidence by the proposed Minnesota trade that did not go through ..... I wouldn't be surprised if both were gone by next season).
- In the trade, the Pens got Dominik Kahun, a 23 y/o center winger who was undrafted and signed last year by Chicago as an undrafted European free agent much as the Pens signed Riikola last year ..... he is said to be a late bloomer who had a reasonably productive rookie season with Chicago .... 13 goals, 24 assists, 37 points in 82 games and mostly 5v5 scoring (averaged just over 14 minutes/game)..... Kahun is small (5'11", 175) but said to have good speed/skating, good hands, pretty good 2 way player, can play any of the 3 forward positions, played on several different lines and was decent on the Toews line, and played some on special teams although not very well on the power play ..... he had good CF%/puck possession numbers ..... he is not a star but I think the Pens see him as a late bloomer with potential to keep improving, helping with speed, very versatile, pretty good two way player .... some compare him to Simon with maybe better offensive skills and I saw one expert that compared him potentially to Rust ...... we'll see what he looks like in the fall when we can better evaluate him and hope for a solid/pretty good player ...... the trade did add ~ $3.1million in cap space for the Pens.
- Penguins also got a 5th round draft pick for 2019 and we'll see who they take with that pick.
- Rutherford hasn't been able to trade Kessel so far and recently said that Kessel would likely be back playing with the Pens next season but I think there is still some chance he will be traded (although maybe not a great chance)..... especially if the deal frees up more cap space allowing the potential for the Pens to sign a free agent forward who along with Kahun may be able to make up for at least a significant portion of Kessel's offensive productivity and in addition improve the defensive end ..... again there may not be a very good chance for that trade to happen at this time.
- Will they still try to deal Jack Johnson ? ....... there is not much of a market for him alone and he would more likely have to be part of a larger deal.
- Looks like Jarry will likely be traded ..... he would have to go through waivers if sent down to WBS this coming year and would be lost for nothing ..... he is clearly 3rd on the goalie depth chart at this time.
- I think the player who has to really do better next season on defense is Justin Schultz ...... he obviously had a gruesome injury this season which kept him out a lot of the season and affected his play but they need to have him come back better then ever next year ..... that would really help the defensive core ....... Schultz in the past has been good in the offensive zone and not so good in the defensive zone ..... his all around play needs to get better next year ..... Schultz becomes an UFA after next season so they will have to make a decision about his future with the Pens before then (his cap hit is $5.5 million next season).
- Chicago needs to improve their defensive core badly and likely feel Matta can help although they probably will be making additional changes on their blueline ....... I think they see Maatta as a two time Stanley Cup winner, still young but with a lot of experience, pretty solid positionally and a smart player ...... his problems are that at age 24 his body has been beaten up ..... multiple shoulder injuries and at least two shoulder surgeries (and he had another shoulder injury this season for which he sat out a couple months), a hip problem/injury, thyroid cancer surgery (for which he should be cured), etc. ..... Chicago will have to hope that his injuries are in the past and he can stay healthy .... I think his injuries have decreased his physicality which is becoming a more important factor recently as we saw in the Stanley Cup Playoffs the last two seasons ..... of course, a big issue is his poor skating in a day and age where more speed is needed ..... The Penguins had 9 defensemen under one way contracts and needed to move a D-man or two as the cap hit was too much ...... the Pens see it as trading a player with a lot of injuries, too slow, a healthy scratch in the playoffs, and it will free up much needed cap space relieving some of the jam on the blueline and Maatta still had some trade value..... Jack Johnson and Maatta were the two most likely to be traded (and maybe they would rather have traded Johnson as evidence by the proposed Minnesota trade that did not go through ..... I wouldn't be surprised if both were gone by next season).
- In the trade, the Pens got Dominik Kahun, a 23 y/o center winger who was undrafted and signed last year by Chicago as an undrafted European free agent much as the Pens signed Riikola last year ..... he is said to be a late bloomer who had a reasonably productive rookie season with Chicago .... 13 goals, 24 assists, 37 points in 82 games and mostly 5v5 scoring (averaged just over 14 minutes/game)..... Kahun is small (5'11", 175) but said to have good speed/skating, good hands, pretty good 2 way player, can play any of the 3 forward positions, played on several different lines and was decent on the Toews line, and played some on special teams although not very well on the power play ..... he had good CF%/puck possession numbers ..... he is not a star but I think the Pens see him as a late bloomer with potential to keep improving, helping with speed, very versatile, pretty good two way player .... some compare him to Simon with maybe better offensive skills and I saw one expert that compared him potentially to Rust ...... we'll see what he looks like in the fall when we can better evaluate him and hope for a solid/pretty good player ...... the trade did add ~ $3.1million in cap space for the Pens.
- Penguins also got a 5th round draft pick for 2019 and we'll see who they take with that pick.
- Rutherford hasn't been able to trade Kessel so far and recently said that Kessel would likely be back playing with the Pens next season but I think there is still some chance he will be traded (although maybe not a great chance)..... especially if the deal frees up more cap space allowing the potential for the Pens to sign a free agent forward who along with Kahun may be able to make up for at least a significant portion of Kessel's offensive productivity and in addition improve the defensive end ..... again there may not be a very good chance for that trade to happen at this time.
- Will they still try to deal Jack Johnson ? ....... there is not much of a market for him alone and he would more likely have to be part of a larger deal.
- Looks like Jarry will likely be traded ..... he would have to go through waivers if sent down to WBS this coming year and would be lost for nothing ..... he is clearly 3rd on the goalie depth chart at this time.
- I think the player who has to really do better next season on defense is Justin Schultz ...... he obviously had a gruesome injury this season which kept him out a lot of the season and affected his play but they need to have him come back better then ever next year ..... that would really help the defensive core ....... Schultz in the past has been good in the offensive zone and not so good in the defensive zone ..... his all around play needs to get better next year ..... Schultz becomes an UFA after next season so they will have to make a decision about his future with the Pens before then (his cap hit is $5.5 million next season).
To be honest, I would shop Schultz. He is in the last year of his contract, I don't think he played particularly well, and possibly you could get a nice return for him and/or free up more space.
The preseason schedule came out today ....
I saw two sources that said the 2019-2020 full regular season schedules are expected out on 6/25/19.
The Pens need more speed and that's what they got. They also had one more average defenseman than they needed on the roster. Seems like a win/win.
Rutherford said yesterday that everyone not named Crosby is expendable should the right deal come along. This most likely means Geno is safe too because he most likely won’t fetch the return JR is looking for.
Phil was on the table but would not agree to the trade. The team was not on his list of 8. Rutherford made sure to mention that Phil is at a point in his career where he earned that right and he didn’t do anything wrong. Murray is an RFA at season’s end so he’s not immune either.
Phil was on the table but would not agree to the trade. The team was not on his list of 8. Rutherford made sure to mention that Phil is at a point in his career where he earned that right and he didn’t do anything wrong. Murray is an RFA at season’s end so he’s not immune either.
I read this and realized that when Rutherford says something like this, I have the exact opposite reaction when Huntingdon says it.
Correct. It comes out after the draft and before the July 1 free agent period starts.
I am not disappointed that the rumored Phil Kessel trade to Minnesota did not go through. I think that was a trade we would’ve come to regret. I just didn’t think the return was nearly enough — and I really like Jason Zucker. The Victor Rask element of that deal killed it for me.
If you’re going to have a terrible contract on your books, I would much rather it be a defenseman than a forward.
I understand that Kessel can be a pain in the ass. However, he is also a highly productive player and those are exceedingly rare. Also, Kessel didn’t suddenly become a pain in the ass. He’s ALWAYS been this way — including when he was integral in two Cup runs. There’s a reason why he has played for three teams in his career, and appears headed for a fourth team, despite being one of the top five right wingers in hockey for his entire career.
If you’re going to have a terrible contract on your books, I would much rather it be a defenseman than a forward.
I understand that Kessel can be a pain in the ass. However, he is also a highly productive player and those are exceedingly rare. Also, Kessel didn’t suddenly become a pain in the ass. He’s ALWAYS been this way — including when he was integral in two Cup runs. There’s a reason why he has played for three teams in his career, and appears headed for a fourth team, despite being one of the top five right wingers in hockey for his entire career.
Well now.......here we are, Kessel, Letang, Malkin all still on the Penguins. Seeing what Toronto had to give up to gain cap room and move Marleau and seeing the relatively Jagr like return the Preds got for Subban, I am fine with going into this season with this roster.
When the GM talks about a culture change, it needs to come within. In 2009 Billy Guerin and Chris Kunitz were brought in. In 2016, they brought in Matt Cullen. Now? I know this, they got three 30something veterans with 3 cups each. I am not sure what additional leadership the team needs. Sid needs to be more vocal in the room. He needs to pop Malkin and Kessel if they turn the puck over at the blue line.
Geno needs to change his game and stop dipsy doing and dangling and become more of a power forward. Kessel needs to shoot more, and he is going to have to sit a game or two in preservation, because he has run out of gas in the stretches the last 2 years. Letang needs to understand score and situation and tone down his play when needs it. Hell, Sid needs to shoot more, play a more simplified game.
Hope the Hornquist that played in the World Championships is the guy we will get next season, not the guy who played the last 40+ games with the Pens.
There is no market for trades, and it is funny, the stupid contracts that preceded the shut down of the league and instituted the cap are coming back with the Flyers ridiculous Kevin Hayes contract and the Sabres paying Jeff Skinner $9million a year. The Pens vets contracts look good in comparison.
When the GM talks about a culture change, it needs to come within. In 2009 Billy Guerin and Chris Kunitz were brought in. In 2016, they brought in Matt Cullen. Now? I know this, they got three 30something veterans with 3 cups each. I am not sure what additional leadership the team needs. Sid needs to be more vocal in the room. He needs to pop Malkin and Kessel if they turn the puck over at the blue line.
Geno needs to change his game and stop dipsy doing and dangling and become more of a power forward. Kessel needs to shoot more, and he is going to have to sit a game or two in preservation, because he has run out of gas in the stretches the last 2 years. Letang needs to understand score and situation and tone down his play when needs it. Hell, Sid needs to shoot more, play a more simplified game.
Hope the Hornquist that played in the World Championships is the guy we will get next season, not the guy who played the last 40+ games with the Pens.
There is no market for trades, and it is funny, the stupid contracts that preceded the shut down of the league and instituted the cap are coming back with the Flyers ridiculous Kevin Hayes contract and the Sabres paying Jeff Skinner $9million a year. The Pens vets contracts look good in comparison.
Don't know much about this guy, but I bet the Pens try to trade Rust or if someone will take Hornquist.
Wow that's a terrible deal for a guy like Tanev, who I really really like as a 4th liner.
Carl Hegelin is 30 years old and recently signed a 4 year contract with average annual salary at 2.75 Mil.
That is the going rate and term for a "speed" guy with 5 goals/19 points last season.
That is the going rate and term for a "speed" guy with 5 goals/19 points last season.
Tanev for 3.5m AAV isn’t awful in my opinion. 6 years was probably driven by the market.
Were heading for another lockout. These contracts are getting out of hand again. That could be good though. The NHL was a lot of fun 2006-2010.
There's a salary cap, so while some individual contracts may get out of hand contracts in total can't get out of hand. They have to remain under a certain dollar amount by rule. And unlike the NBA, the NHL's cap is hard one, so no team pays more than the collective bargaining agreement says they can.
I think you are very likely spot on!
At least one of those two guys is going to be shipped out of town sooner rather than later.
The question is who would you trade first? Also, who would be in greater demand?
It hurts me to say this but I think Hornqvist would likely be more expendable than Rust. Horny did not look good at all last year. He has lost a step or two and I just don’t know if he can still get to the areas he needs to get to to be successful.
I’m not even sure if there’s a market for him without Pittsburgh being forced to retain some of his salary – which is a nonstarter for me.
I’m projecting a little bit here because I will know that due to injuries, trades, performance, chemistry, etc., all of these lines will change 27 times next season. Hell, they’ll probably have changed 27 times by Thanksgiving. However, here is a thumbnail sketch of what we can likely expect.
FORWARDS:
McCann / Crosby / Guentzel
Tanev / Malkin / Galchenyuk
Kahun / Bjugstadt / Rust
Simon / Blueger / Aston-Reese
Extra: Hornqvist
DEFENSEMEN:
Dumoulin / Letang
Johnson / Schultz
Petterson / Gudbranson
Extras: Ruhwedel, Trotman and Riikola
GOALTENDERS:
Murray
DeSmith
Extra: Jarry
Jarry is definitely going to be traded before the start of the season because if he isn’t we’re going to lose him on waivers anyway.
I think Hornqvist is likely the odd man out as well – assuming there’s a market for him. Johnson is the same. If anyone would take him – perhaps along with Jarry – that would be a huge help to this team.
Also, that is definitely a thinner lineup than we have iced in recent years. We really can’t afford injuries to key players next year – which is paradoxical given that we are an older team. We are still going to need to make some shrewd moves and hope and pray that some under-appreciated AHL players can come in and make a difference.
FORWARDS:
McCann / Crosby / Guentzel
Tanev / Malkin / Galchenyuk
Kahun / Bjugstadt / Rust
Simon / Blueger / Aston-Reese
Extra: Hornqvist
DEFENSEMEN:
Dumoulin / Letang
Johnson / Schultz
Petterson / Gudbranson
Extras: Ruhwedel, Trotman and Riikola
GOALTENDERS:
Murray
DeSmith
Extra: Jarry
Jarry is definitely going to be traded before the start of the season because if he isn’t we’re going to lose him on waivers anyway.
I think Hornqvist is likely the odd man out as well – assuming there’s a market for him. Johnson is the same. If anyone would take him – perhaps along with Jarry – that would be a huge help to this team.
Also, that is definitely a thinner lineup than we have iced in recent years. We really can’t afford injuries to key players next year – which is paradoxical given that we are an older team. We are still going to need to make some shrewd moves and hope and pray that some under-appreciated AHL players can come in and make a difference.
Tanev is an OK signing. The term is too long but we are probably going to suck in 5-6 years anyways.
Will be intersting what they give Murray given the goalie market.
Will be intersting what they give Murray given the goalie market.
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