PG Story Today on Pitt to ACC

[PittAU]

I know we generally like to rag on the Post-Gazette but that story today about Pitt's move from the Big East to the ACC was pretty good.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...university-of-pittsburgh/stories/201809200047

Part One of three.

 

[PittAU]

oops, two threads on same topic. delete mine if you like.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

yep, well he's not one of the many former state/collegian guys they have employed there. Still had to get through the editor though, so we'll see.

 

[Jpripper88]

Thanks for posting.

 

[ThePanthers]

Thanks for posting. Good read. Looking forward to the other parts.

 

[cease10]

I was really worried about Pitt's fate back then. Was ecstatic we landed in the ACC.

Can you imagine life for us in the AAC or Big12? I do not envy WVU or UCONN

 

[WoadBlue]

I recall very well that my telling Pitt fans (primarily on the old Scout board) back before 2010 that if the ACC were to expand to 14 Pitt would be involved was met with a lot of skepticism.

And more than a bit of hostility. Some Pitt fans were still caught in the dream of Big East football making it and could not see that it was doomed the second the ACC was willing to listen to Miami's pleas to be invited (and that was in 1998).

Pitt belongs in the ACC. Pitt basketball will get back to winning (though I hope not with any Dookie as coach), and Pitt football will become more competitive.

 

[McKee Place]

I was really worried about Pitt's fate back then. Was ecstatic we landed in the ACC.

Can you imagine life for us in the AAC or Big12? I do not envy WVU or UCONN

Everyone and their uncle will be Liking this and probably for good reason. But as we look at another probable 6 win campaign at best, I'll give this devil's advocacy. IF we were still at the very height of our Big East success in basketball, indeed had made a FF, or better, we were a more established true basketball power and had not experienced the weird Birch fallout and assistant turnover that seemed to trigger a decline ...IF IF IF I say ... and again, considering the relentless mediocrity in football we have and statistically based on recruiting, likely have yet to come ... and the colossal disaster basketball became the last 3 yrs (and still is, until Capel can show otherwise) ...

...well, I really love football (indeed I've never even posted on the basketball board) so I actually still am not sure. But, truthfully, for the net good of the university I think I would have preferred staying put.

Caveats: giving up football, no G5 or FCS. And the conditions for basketball listed above. Otherwise, no.

And of course no Big 12 at all.

 

[Jpripper88]

Everyone and their uncle will be Liking this and probably for good reason. But as we look at another probable 6 win campaign at best, I'll give this devil's advocacy. IF we were still at the very height of our Big East success in basketball, indeed had made a FF, or better, we were a more established true basketball power and had not experienced the weird Birch fallout and assistant turnover that seemed to trigger a decline ...IF IF IF I say ... and again, considering the relentless mediocrity in football we have and statistically based on recruiting, likely have yet to come ... and the colossal disaster basketball became the last 3 yrs (and still is, until Capel can show otherwise) ...

...well, I really love football (indeed I've never even posted on the basketball board) so I actually still am not sure. But, truthfully, for the net good of the university I think I would have preferred staying put.

Caveats: giving up football, no G5 or FCS. And the conditions for basketball listed above. Otherwise, no.

And of course no Big 12 at all.

How would giving up football and millions and millions and millions of dollars be "for the good of the University" on any level? It would be devastating to Pitt athletics and the University.

 

[DiehardPanther]

Everyone and their uncle will be Liking this and probably for good reason. But as we look at another probable 6 win campaign at best, I'll give this devil's advocacy. IF we were still at the very height of our Big East success in basketball, indeed had made a FF, or better, we were a more established true basketball power and had not experienced the weird Birch fallout and assistant turnover that seemed to trigger a decline ...IF IF IF I say ... and again, considering the relentless mediocrity in football we have and statistically based on recruiting, likely have yet to come ... and the colossal disaster basketball became the last 3 yrs (and still is, until Capel can show otherwise) ...

...well, I really love football (indeed I've never even posted on the basketball board) so I actually still am not sure. But, truthfully, for the net good of the university I think I would have preferred staying put.

Caveats: giving up football, no G5 or FCS. And the conditions for basketball listed above. Otherwise, no.

And of course no Big 12 at all.

Dude...we would be the equivalent of Temple playing in the AAC if we did not get an invite to the ACC or Big 12. Thankfully we are in the ACC.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

but that story today about Pitt's move from the Big East to the ACC was pretty good.

There wasn't anything in that story that we all didn't know five years ago. Hopefully the next two installments contain at least something new or interesting.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Getting the ACC invite in 2011 was the single most important event in Pitt athletics history since January 1, 1977. It is one of the most important events in the university's history.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

So far they only good thing about the move to the ACC was what major college athletics is all about ...The MONEY .
Neither of the revenue sports have excelled on the court or field since the move . In reality they're both worse plus interest and attendance have dropped . I'm optimistic about Bb with JC , but success is 2 yrs down the road . FB won't change until Pitt can recruit better athletes .
I know the money has helped with the non revenue sports , but honestly I don't follow them .

 

[McKee Place]

How would giving up football and millions and millions and millions of dollars be "for the good of the University" on any level? It would be devastating to Pitt athletics and the University.

Based on the hypothetical conditions I laid out ... and I emphasized the "IF" about 10 times ...

... IF it came down to being a true basketball power, such as Villanova or Gonzaga, and no football (I know, Villanova does have it, but I'd have no interest in their level of football) ...

...vs our current situation, being meh in football, and currently even worse than that in basketball (which we absolutely are, no hypothetical there)...

... I am saying I might just favor the former (though i'd miss football), because I believe it would be fantastic for the university to have that national acclaim of an annual basketball power.

Again, this was the hypothetical condition, that Pitt could have been Villanova-like in hoops staying put. We'd already started downward from our max before the conference change, so I know the reality is that we would not have been Nova-like ... which made getting into the ACC a great thing vs the real alternative. If we were gonna be sucky in basketball either way, I'm glad we at least have major football in a major conference, even if it's meh.

(If the sole or main argument is that being in the ACC is benefiting sports like soccer or volleyball, I honestly don't care about the other sports. It currently isn't raising up the sports I do care about)

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Getting the ACC invite was fortunate for PITT.

PITT earned the invite and the ACC expects some return for extending that invitation to PITT.

It's PITT's responsibility not to replicate the BIG10 Rutgers mistake.
Instead PITT should work to provide the ACC with a good story for adding PITT to the conference!

It's a privilege to be a member of the ACC but that could change if PITT athletics and administration decides its a right.

It appears we have an AD who is capable of elevating PITT sports to top ACC level.

Lykes success will come down to her skills and the support that she gets from the PITT management team.

IMO the PITT management team is the wild card regarding the progress of the University and PITT sports especially football.

So we'll see!

"it's five o'clock somewhere"
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go PITT & CSU Rams!

 

[McKee Place]

So far they only good thing about the move to the ACC was what major college athletics is all about ...The MONEY .
Neither of the revenue sports have excelled on the court or field since the move . In reality they're both worse plus interest and attendance have dropped . I'm optimistic about Bb with JC , but success is 2 yrs down the road . FB won't change until Pitt can recruit better athletes .
I know the money has helped with the non revenue sports , but honestly I don't follow them .

I don't think of it quite so harshly, but this is much of what I was saying.

I'm glad for those involved that the ACC money is helping volleyball and soccer. Better those folks have a good team than a bad one. I guess. It's like a tree falling in the woods to me, though.

And it's likely true the ACC money allows for keeping football from falling even further behind. Still, we couldn't keep Canada, could we ... and our offense has stunk since.

I'm also figuring ACC money allowed for us to pay off Stallings sooner, and still afford Capel. But I'm hardly comforted that it was necessary in the first place (it was breathtakingly awful leadership, and not only Barnes but people who are still there).

But credit where due.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I don't think of it quite so harshly, but this is much of what I was saying.

I'm glad for those involved that the ACC money is helping volleyball and soccer. Better those folks have a good team than a bad one. I guess. It's like a tree falling in the woods to me, though.

And it's likely true the ACC money allows for keeping football from falling even further behind. Still, we couldn't keep Canada, could we ... and our offense has stunk since.

I'm also figuring ACC money allowed for us to pay off Stallings sooner, and still afford Capel. But I'm hardly comforted that it was necessary in the first place (it was breathtakingly awful leadership, and not only Barnes but people who are still there).

But credit where due.

Pitt is way better off in the ACC, and has better potential long-term potential, than if it had a Villanova-like basketball program in the current Big East. And it's not even close.

Every program is one coach away from greatness. Money, and a high profile conferences like the ACC, give you more chances at those roles of the die over the long term. It's why we have two former national championship winners take over two of the most historically poor soccer programs in major college sports. That wouldn't have happened if Pitt was in any other conference. The Big East is not the Big East of the 2000s, and Villanova is a Jay Wright retirement away from potentially being Georgetown or St. John's. It's really hard to hire the rare great coach. Without even factoring in football, I'd much rather be rebuilding the hoops program in the current ACC, with ACC money and the ACC's stature, than in the current Big East.

 

[Saboteur]

I wonder how Rutgers feels. They are getting emasculated by OSU by an average of 53 -6 or something ridiculous. Not much better with UM, MSU and PEE SUE.
Are they making the same amount from conference stuff as OSU? I Don't think they have accomplished much other than raising the price they charge to get crushed.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I wonder how Rutgers feels. They are getting emasculated by OSU by an average of 53 -6 or something ridiculous. Not much better with UM, MSU and PEE SUE.
Are they making the same amount from conference stuff as OSU? I Don't think they have accomplished much other than raising the price they charge to get crushed.

Rutgers isn't going to get a full revenue share from the B10 until 2021. Currently, they've netted $51.9 million less than Pitt over the last 5 years from net conference money received.

Rutgers' conference revenue (5 year conference net $44.6m)
2012-13 Big East $10.6m (actual)
2013-14 American $8.3m (actual)
2014 American exit fee -$11.5m (source)
2014-15 Big Ten $10.4m (actual)
2015-16 Big Ten $10.7m (actual)
2016-17 Big Ten $16.1m* (actual)
*includes advance on future share distribution for FY2017-20 (~$3.5m of the $16.1m for FY17 is an advance)

Pitt's conference revenue (5 year conference net $96.5m)
2012-13: Big East $10.2m (actual)
2013 Big East exit fee -$7.5m (source)
2013-14: ACC $18.9m (actual)
2014-15: ACC $25.0m (actual)
2015-16: ACC $23.6m (actual)
2016-17: ACC $26.3m (actual)

Syracuse's conference revenue (5 year conference net $95.6m)
2012-13: Big East $11.9m (actual)
2013 Big East exit fee -$7.5m (source)
2013-14: ACC $19.2m (actual)
2014-15: ACC $24.0m (actual)
2015-16: ACC $22.7m (actual)
2016-17: ACC $25.3m (actual)

WVU's conference revenue (5 year conference net $85.2m)
2012 Big East exit fee -$20m (source)
2012-13: Big12 $8.8m (actual)
2013-14: Big12 $14.2m (actual)
2014-15: Big12 $20.3m (actual)
2015-16: Big12 $28.0m (actual)
2016-17: Big12 $33.9m (actual)

Maryland's conference revenue (5 year conference net $90.4m, not including loans)
2012-13: ACC $16.8m (actual)
2013-14: ACC $18.0m (actual)
2014 ACC exit fee -$31.4m (source)
2014-15 Big Ten $24.1m not including $11.6m loan (actual)
2015-16 Big Ten $25.6m not including $11.6m loan (actual)
2016-17 Big Ten $37.3m^ (actual)
^unknown if loans continued

I want to note that these numbers are the latest available actual conference disbursement numbers. Future projections of distributions are not used or compared, and not available for every team/conference.

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

Vintage Wanny in that article

 

[Saboteur]

Rutgers isn't going to get a full revenue share from the B10 until 2021. Currently, they've netted $51.9 million less than Pitt over the last 5 years from net conference money received.

Rutgers' conference revenue (5 year conference net $44.6m)
2012-13 Big East $10.6m (actual)
2013-14 American $8.3m (actual)
2014 American exit fee -$11.5m (source)
2014-15 Big Ten $10.4m (actual)
2015-16 Big Ten $10.7m (actual)
2016-17 Big Ten $16.1m* (actual)
*includes advance on future share distribution for FY2017-20 (~$3.5m of the $16.1m for FY17 is an advance)

Pitt's conference revenue (5 year conference net $96.5m)
2012-13: Big East $10.2m (actual)
2013 Big East exit fee -$7.5m (source)
2013-14: ACC $18.9m (actual)
2014-15: ACC $25.0m (actual)
2015-16: ACC $23.6m (actual)
2016-17: ACC $26.3m (actual)

Syracuse's conference revenue (5 year conference net $95.6m)
2012-13: Big East $11.9m (actual)
2013 Big East exit fee -$7.5m (source)
2013-14: ACC $19.2m (actual)
2014-15: ACC $24.0m (actual)
2015-16: ACC $22.7m (actual)
2016-17: ACC $25.3m (actual)

WVU's conference revenue (5 year conference net $85.2m)
2012 Big East exit fee -$20m (source)
2012-13: Big12 $8.8m (actual)
2013-14: Big12 $14.2m (actual)
2014-15: Big12 $20.3m (actual)
2015-16: Big12 $28.0m (actual)
2016-17: Big12 $33.9m (actual)

Maryland's conference revenue (5 year conference net $90.4m, not including loans)
2012-13: ACC $16.8m (actual)
2013-14: ACC $18.0m (actual)
2014 ACC exit fee -$31.4m (source)
2014-15 Big Ten $24.1m not including $11.6m loan (actual)
2015-16 Big Ten $25.6m not including $11.6m loan (actual)
2016-17 Big Ten $37.3m^ (actual)
^unknown if loans continued

Thanks for the numbers. It's akin to being a new franchise in baseball before free agency. You get less than before but the privilege of getting your ass kicked in virtual perpetuity.

 

[McKee Place]

Forget to note, a fine article. It is candid in noting what I said above, that our key programs are no better.

But those things are obvious. Given all that happened, more interesting would be an honest expose of how things began going down with Jamie Dixon, the utter 180 in recruiting and diminished success, then forcing him out rather than trying to turn it around, then of course the debacle with Stallings. It was not all Barnes; he was just the head of the snake.

Of course I'm also still waiting on the expose of what really happened with Graham to lead to that drastic and rapid destruction. He of course is a weasel but that whole thing was extreme. And that situation set our football back worse than the momentary Haywood thing.

 

[pbrad]

Rutgers isn't going to get a full revenue share from the B10 until 2021. Currently, they've netted $51.9 million less than Pitt over the last 5 years from net conference money received.

Rutgers' conference revenue (5 year conference net $44.6m)
2012-13 Big East $10.6m (actual)
2013-14 American $8.3m (actual)
2014 American exit fee -$11.5m (source)
2014-15 Big Ten $10.4m (actual)
2015-16 Big Ten $10.7m (actual)
2016-17 Big Ten $16.1m* (actual)
*includes advance on future share distribution for FY2017-20 (~$3.5m of the $16.1m for FY17 is an advance)

Pitt's conference revenue (5 year conference net $96.5m)
2012-13: Big East $10.2m (actual)
2013 Big East exit fee -$7.5m (source)
2013-14: ACC $18.9m (actual)
2014-15: ACC $25.0m (actual)
2015-16: ACC $23.6m (actual)
2016-17: ACC $26.3m (actual)

Syracuse's conference revenue (5 year conference net $95.6m)
2012-13: Big East $11.9m (actual)
2013 Big East exit fee -$7.5m (source)
2013-14: ACC $19.2m (actual)
2014-15: ACC $24.0m (actual)
2015-16: ACC $22.7m (actual)
2016-17: ACC $25.3m (actual)

WVU's conference revenue (5 year conference net $85.2m)
2012 Big East exit fee -$20m (source)
2012-13: Big12 $8.8m (actual)
2013-14: Big12 $14.2m (actual)
2014-15: Big12 $20.3m (actual)
2015-16: Big12 $28.0m (actual)
2016-17: Big12 $33.9m (actual)

Maryland's conference revenue (5 year conference net $90.4m, not including loans)
2012-13: ACC $16.8m (actual)
2013-14: ACC $18.0m (actual)
2014 ACC exit fee -$31.4m (source)
2014-15 Big Ten $24.1m not including $11.6m loan (actual)
2015-16 Big Ten $25.6m not including $11.6m loan (actual)
2016-17 Big Ten $37.3m^ (actual)
^unknown if loans continued

Paco, what ever happened to the ACC lawsuit against Maryland for leaving. I believe they owed the ACC a huge buyout, but I never really heard how that ended.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Maybe that is what the loan money was spent on in part? Or maybe the lawsuit was never settled and is continuing? PACO's insight on it would be interesting.

 

[goalieman]

Paco, what ever happened to the ACC lawsuit against Maryland for leaving. I believe they owed the ACC a huge buyout, but I never really heard how that ended.

In CrazyPaco's post, it looks like Maryland paid the ACC a 31.4 million exit fee in 2014, maybe that was the settlement, I'm not sure.

 

[CrazyPaco]

In CrazyPaco's post, it looks like Maryland paid the ACC a 31.4 million exit fee in 2014, maybe that was the settlement, I'm not sure.

Yes, it was a $31,361,789 million exit fee settlement. That amount represents what the ACC was able to collect by withholding payment from Maryland's actual distribution in its last months in the conference. It was somewhat less of the stipulated $52,266,342 million that was owed. Maryland had countersued, and probably the strongest argument against that fee was the argument that according to the ACC's constitution, it shouldn't have been in effect until the fiscal year following the amendment's adoption. But the lawsuits were all dropped, and that argument won't be able to be used by anyone else.

By the way, that fee was, and is currently, calculated as 3X the annual conference operating budet plus a 10 month notice, and obviously, there is also a separate grant of media rights now through 2036. So, the exit fee is perpetually rising as the conference's annual operating budget rises, and that does not including the $100s of millions of whatever the cost would be for buying out 17 years of future media rights. No one, absolutely no one else in the conference, is even remotely thinking of leaving the ACC.

BTW, Maryland was sold, or sold it own constituents, on making nearly $100 more in their first 6 years of the Big Ten than if they stayed in the ACC. You can be the judge on that.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

There's no arguing that Pitt is better off in the ACC $$$$$ . Pitt should have the resources to compete , now it's up to those managing the athletic department to put the pieces together to make it happen .
Hiring a great soccer coach is wonderful for the players and the thousand or so people who care , but putting another 10,000 butts in HF or the Pete will pay for a lot of soccer balls . Say what you want about PSU , but they've figured it out yrs ago that Fb is what pays for all the other non revenue activities of the athletic department .
All the excuses about Pgh being a pro sports town and the no on campus stadium are just that excuses . Win and make game day a fun experience for all who attend . Have pre and post game activities , give aways , fireworks do anything to get people in the stadium and then show them a good time and Win .
It won't happen overnight, but it needs to have a starting
date .The hiring of JC was a start in Bb moving in the right direction . I'm still waiting for that step in Fb a roster full of 3* will never accomplish the level of Fb needed to garner fan interest.

 

[WoadBlue]

Yes, it was a $31,361,789 million exit fee settlement. That amount represents what the ACC was able to collect by withholding payment from Maryland's actual distribution in its last months in the conference. It was somewhat less of the stipulated. $52,266,342 million that was owed. Maryland had countersued, and probably the strongest argument against that fee was the argument that according to the ACC's constitution, it shouldn't have been in effect until the fiscal year following the amendment's adoption. But the lawsuits were all dropped, and that argument won't be able to be used by anyone else.

By the way, that fee was, and is currently, calculated as 3X the annual conference operating budet plus a 10 month notice, and obviously, there is also a separate grant of media rights now through 2036. So, the exit fee is perpetually rising as the conference's annual operating budget rises, and that does not including the $100s of millions of whatever the cost would be for buying out 17 years of future media rights. No one, absolutely no one else in the conference, is even remotely thinking of leaving the ACC.

BTW, Maryland was sold, or sold it own constituents, on making nearly $100 more in their first 6 years of the Big Ten than if they stayed in the ACC. You can be the judge on that.

All of that is correct.

The University of Maryland system President William English (Brit) Kirwan hated the ACC and had always lauded the Big Ten. He sold a bill of crappy goods, under cover of darkness, to a few people with the power to act without informing anyone else.

What is funny is that earlier he had been the Maryland-College Park Chancellor, and had left the school with growing financial problems. The man is an idiot, and all Maryland is stupid for trusting him a second time.

 

[Jpripper88]

Based on the hypothetical conditions I laid out ... and I emphasized the "IF" about 10 times ...

... IF it came down to being a true basketball power, such as Villanova or Gonzaga, and no football (I know, Villanova does have it, but I'd have no interest in their level of football) ...

...vs our current situation, being meh in football, and currently even worse than that in basketball (which we absolutely are, no hypothetical there)...

... I am saying I might just favor the former (though i'd miss football), because I believe it would be fantastic for the university to have that national acclaim of an annual basketball power.

Again, this was the hypothetical condition, that Pitt could have been Villanova-like in hoops staying put. We'd already started downward from our max before the conference change, so I know the reality is that we would not have been Nova-like ... which made getting into the ACC a great thing vs the real alternative. If we were gonna be sucky in basketball either way, I'm glad we at least have major football in a major conference, even if it's meh.

(If the sole or main argument is that being in the ACC is benefiting sports like soccer or volleyball, I honestly don't care about the other sports. It currently isn't raising up the sports I do care about)

It would still be awful for the University and the AD to lose that money and publicity. It is absolutely insane to suggest they'd be better off as a Villanova/Butler AD.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Another way to look at it.

1. Maryland now gets over $10M more than Pitt per year.
2. WVU now gets over $8M more per year than Pitt.

At some point, if there continues to be a large revenue difference, those two schools will make up the negative difference and than start leaping ahead of ACC teams like Pitt.

 

[CrazyPaco]

All of that is correct.

The University of Maryland system President William English (Brit) Kirwan hated the ACC and had always lauded the Big Ten. He sold a bill of crappy goods, under cover of darkness, to a few people with the power to act without informing anyone else.

What is funny is that earlier he had been the Maryland-College Park Chancellor, and had left the school with growing financial problems. The man is an idiot, and all Maryland is stupid for trusting him a second time.

Failing to finalize the Corcoran deal is one of Loh's his worst failures.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Another way to look at it.

1. Maryland now gets over $10M more than Pitt per year.
2. WVU now gets over $8M more per year than Pitt.

At some point, if there continues to be a large revenue difference, those two schools will make up the negative difference and than start leaping ahead of ACC teams like Pitt.

why was the WVU exit fee so much more than ours? Was it because they left early (I think they were out of the Big East in 2012 and we stayed one more year)?

 

[President Stache]

Yes, it was a $31,361,789 million exit fee settlement. That amount represents what the ACC was able to collect by withholding payment from Maryland's actual distribution in its last months in the conference. It was somewhat less of the stipulated $52,266,342 million that was owed. Maryland had countersued, and probably the strongest argument against that fee was the argument that according to the ACC's constitution, it shouldn't have been in effect until the fiscal year following the amendment's adoption. But the lawsuits were all dropped, and that argument won't be able to be used by anyone else.

By the way, that fee was, and is currently, calculated as 3X the annual conference operating budet plus a 10 month notice, and obviously, there is also a separate grant of media rights now through 2036. So, the exit fee is perpetually rising as the conference's annual operating budget rises, and that does not including the $100s of millions of whatever the cost would be for buying out 17 years of future media rights. No one, absolutely no one else in the conference, is even remotely thinking of leaving the ACC.

BTW, Maryland was sold, or sold it own constituents, on making nearly $100 more in their first 6 years of the Big Ten than if they stayed in the ACC. You can be the judge on that.

Completely honest here, Nesbit should have consulted you on his article, the article is nice, but nothing new I think.

I did LOVE how he used the (sic) and left all the misspelled words from Petersen in ... that moron.

 

[Pizzaboy1]

So WVU received 7.5 million more than Pitt did in the Acc in 2016-17.Thank you Oliver Luck we could of been in the AAC.Now the question is how long will there be a Big 12.If the Big 12 brakes up we're done because we only have 12,241 TV sets in Wva and noone will want us,again!

 

[cease10]

Is WVU being compensated for the extra travel? And how can you account for the toll that traveling places on the athletes and staff?

 

[DaveTrout]

Completely honest here, Nesbit should have consulted you on his article, the article is nice, but nothing new I think.

I did LOVE how he used the (sic) and left all the misspelled words from Petersen in ... that moron.

Yeah, Steve really should have waited until he was sober to write his responses.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

After reading today's article I wonder if these guys ever pay any attention to college sports at all.

On the move to the ACC:

"It hasn't led to much winning - and more losing than its final five years in the Big East - but there's no clear explanation as to why."

First of all, when you don't do much winning doesn't that by definition mean that you are doing more losing?

Secondly, in the very next paragraph Batko lists the ten sports that there is "normal" team competition that Pitt plays in the ACC that they also played in the Big East (or EWL). Football (the ACC is better), men's basketball (similar), women's basketball (the ACC is better), baseball (the ACC is better), softball (the ACC is better), men's soccer (the ACC is probably slightly better), women's soccer ( the ACC is better), tennis (to be honest, I have no idea), women's volleyball (probably a push), and wrestling (using the EWL as the comparison, and the EWL was better).

So let's see, 10 sports, 6 tougher in the ACC, 2 about the same, 1 worse and one I have no idea. Even if the old Big East was better in tennis that's still 6 - 2 ACC tougher than the old Big East. Is it really that difficult to understand why the team's composite records have gotten worse? Especially since in several of those sports, baseball, women's soccer and women's basketball to name three, the ACC is vastly superior to the old Big East. And in none of those sports was the old Big East much better than the ACC.

Is there really no clear explanation as to why Pitt hasn't won as much in their first five years in the ACC versus their last five years in the Big East? In fact didn't everyone who gave it any thought at all already know that this is exactly what was likely to happen?

 

[Jpripper88]

After reading today's article I wonder if these guys ever pay any attention to college sports at all.

On the move to the ACC:

"It hasn't led to much winning - and more losing than its final five years in the Big East - but there's no clear explanation as to why."

First of all, when you don't do much winning doesn't that by definition mean that you are doing more losing?

Secondly, in the very next paragraph Batko lists the ten sports that there is "normal" team competition that Pitt plays in the ACC that they also played in the Big East (or EWL). Football (the ACC is better), men's basketball (similar), women's basketball (the ACC is better), baseball (the ACC is better), softball (the ACC is better), men's soccer (the ACC is probably slightly better), women's soccer ( the ACC is better), tennis (to be honest, I have no idea), women's volleyball (probably a push), and wrestling (using the EWL as the comparison, and the EWL was better).

So let's see, 10 sports, 6 tougher in the ACC, 2 about the same, 1 worse and one I have no idea. Even if the old Big East was better in tennis that's still 6 - 2 ACC tougher than the old Big East. Is it really that difficult to understand why the team's composite records have gotten worse? Especially since in several of those sports, baseball, women's soccer and women's basketball to name three, the ACC is vastly superior to the old Big East. And in none of those sports was the old Big East much better than the ACC.

Is there really no clear explanation as to why Pitt hasn't won as much in their first five years in the ACC versus their last five years in the Big East? In fact didn't everyone who gave it any thought at all already know that this is exactly what was likely to happen?

"Thought?"