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Pirates don't re-sign J.A. Happ, give me a break

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PittPoker

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Happ, who was simply outstanding for us after he was acquired signed with Toronto for 3 years, 36 Million.

Nutting once again shows how cheap he is and lets a guy who could have immensely helped us for relative peanuts in today's market walk. Now we are stuck with Morton and Locke once again and we have no 3rd starter after Cole and Liriano.

Not even going to get started with our offensive woes - as the Cards and Cubs will continue to spend and upgrade their team to compete, the Pirates will hope all their nickel and diming will make this team a World Series Contender.

I see a major drop off this season unless Nutting finds another gem while he dumpster dives yet again. No more lucking out like he did with Kang either. Sad.
 
That's Nutsack at work for you. He's sniffing around the dumpster for bargains. Looking for 28 year olds playing AAA ball! He's a cheap bum surrounded by yes men buffoons. The Pirates will get worse before they get better.
 
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Happ really doesn't deserve that kinda cash for a team like the pirates. We have been awesome finding bargains and I'm sure we will do it again. Not to mention I think we want a 1-2 year guy max with our top of the line rotation guys getting to the majors this year sometime (glasnow, tallion, kingman)
 
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When he is near a 5 ERA in that bandbox Toronto plays in, I am sure he will be worth every penny to keep it with in 5 runs per.
 
I agree, but I don't fault Happ for taking that cash. Kudos to him for playing himself into a great contract. I remember everyone saying with Russell Martin last year and aj the year before that we were making dumb moves ... well that's 45 mil we saved on 3 guys without much degradation in playing or wins.
 
Sad to see him go, but not a big deal as long as they don't keep Locke around. Even Morton got pretty bad near the end of last season. As long as they replace him with a solid veteran or a legit prospect the pitching staff will be fine.
 
Barring some miracle of improvement, if Morton or Lock remain as starters we are in deep do-do!
 
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Pittx9 said:
Sad to see him go, but not a big deal as long as they don't keep Locke around. Even Morton got pretty bad near the end of last season. As long as they replace him with a solid veteran or a legit prospect the pitching staff will be fine.
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Are either any good ???...real sweet staff to start off the year..no?
Liriano and COLE and 3 days of rain..

See what happens ....then pray one or two young guys makes it to PNC
 
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PittPoker said:
Happ, who was simply outstanding for us after he was acquired signed with Toronto for 3 years, 36 Million.

Nutting once again shows how cheap he is and lets a guy who could have immensely helped us for relative peanuts in today's market walk. Now we are stuck with Morton and Locke once again and we have no 3rd starter after Cole and Liriano.

Not even going to get started with our offensive woes - as the Cards and Cubs will continue to spend and upgrade their team to compete, the Pirates will hope all their nickel and diming will make this team a World Series Contender.

I see a major drop off this season unless Nutting finds another gem while he dumpster dives yet again. No more lucking out like he did with Kang either. Sad.
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Serious question that I would like an answer to. At what figure would you like to see the Pirates payroll at? This past year it was around 100 million dollars. They signed Liriano for 13 mil a year last year. If they would have matched Happ's 13 mil they would be paying out over a quarter of their payroll to 2 pitchers. And they have contracts coming up to many young guys.

Would I love to see Happ back? For sure. But I think the future rest more on guys like Taillon and Glasnow. It's the only way a small market team can go. It's the TV and media money that handcuffs them.
 
Theyll find someone better for less money. Everyone relax.

Locke is still essentially free. He will be on the team.
 
wbrpanther said:
Serious question that I would like an answer to. At what figure would you like to see the Pirates payroll at? This past year it was around 100 million dollars. They signed Liriano for 13 mil a year last year. If they would have matched Happ's 13 mil they would be paying out over a quarter of their payroll to 2 pitchers. And they have contracts coming up to many young guys.

Would I love to see Happ back? For sure. But I think the future rest more on guys like Taillon and Glasnow. It's the only way a small market team can go. It's the TV and media money that handcuffs them.
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Oh please. Nutting is so damn cheap. He is looking to trade Melancon to save money, he could have signed Volquez for 20 Million/2 year contract and we probably win the division with him over Locke or Morton. Happ needed to be signed, 12 million a year is nothing in today's market.

There are only so many reclamation projects Nutting can hope to find and turn around. We also need that big bat somewhere too but Nutting won't pay for that so we are stuck with an offense that scores 7 runs 1 game and 2 runs or less the next 6. No way we can ever win a world series like this. Make a wildcard again?? Perhaps but that's it.
 
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PittPoker said:
He is looking to trade Melancon to save money
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He's (and let's not forget, it isn't really him, but for now we can all pretend) looking to trade Melancon because there are some people out there who are still dumb enough to overpay for a "proven closer". There aren't many of them left, but there still are a few people out there running teams still living in the 1990s like several people here do.
 
PittPoker said:
Oh please. Nutting is so damn cheap. He is looking to trade Melancon to save money, he could have signed Volquez for 20 Million/2 year contract and we probably win the division with him over Locke or Morton. Happ needed to be signed, 12 million a year is nothing in today's market.

There are only so many reclamation projects Nutting can hope to find and turn around. We also need that big bat somewhere too but Nutting won't pay for that so we are stuck with an offense that scores 7 runs 1 game and 2 runs or less the next 6. No way we can ever win a world series like this. Make a wildcard again?? Perhaps but that's it.
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This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever read on this site, and that's saying something.
 
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Huntington has proven that closers are a dime a dozen. I have no problem with him trading Melancon. My problem is what are they gonna do with the $ they save from trading Melancon. 1B will be a dumpster fire. Look for Alvarez to be gone in the next 30 days (remember this when he's traded). It will take Pirates fans about 2 months to wish he was back after watching the platoon of Michael Morse/Jake Goebbert. They're probably going to sign Jeff Locke, which will thrill Bucs fans to no end. Charlie Morton's due for another injury. I assume that Neil Walker will begin the season in Pittsburgh, but I doubt he'll finish the season here. 2016 isn't looking too promising on November 28.
 
MartyInLawrenceville said:
Look for Alvarez to be gone in the next 30 days (remember this when he's traded).
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Wait, you are predicting that Pedro Alvarez will get traded? Wow, that's really going out on a limb there.

Of course that assumes that there is anyone out there that will give you something for him. So far that has not been the case. If you want to be bold predict that he will get non-tendered because no one is dumb enough to give anything up for him.
 
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Joe, I think he'll be traded in the next few weeks. I heard that Scott Boras will work w/ whatever team is interested to make it a good situation for the team (as far as Alvarez's next contract). Also, look for the Bucs to sign Locke...which is absolutely disgusting.
 
Locke is in his first year of arbitration, I don't get what the big deal is?

3.95 FIP, 3.94 xFIP, 1.6 WAR. That's a no-brainer.
 
Pittbaseball11 said:
Locke is in his first year of arbitration, I don't get what the big deal is?
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I agree. Someone has to be the fifth starter. And the fact that his has strung some decent starts together once or twice makes him a pretty decent back of the rotation starter.
 
I disagree. An effective fifth starter doesn't necessarily have to have a great record, although it would be nice. It would be nice if Locke could be a .500 pitcher. What you need most is somebody who can eat innings. Locke has never shown to be that guy. He's usually up around the 80 pitch mark in the fourth inning. That's not good enough. If his record isn't going to be good, you can live with that in a fifth starter. What he needs to is at least eat innings to help the staff out.
 
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MartyInLawrenceville said:
I disagree. An effective fifth starter doesn't necessarily have to have a great record, although it would be nice. It would be nice if Locke could be a .500 pitcher. What you need most is somebody who can eat innings. Locke has never shown to be that guy. He's usually up around the 80 pitch mark in the fourth inning. That's not good enough. If his record isn't going to be good, you can live with that in a fifth starter. What he needs to is at least eat innings to help the staff out.
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Not only do I think that is very accurate, but honestly Locke is even worse at what you're referring to than his stats even show. The only reason he even makes it to the 5th inning most games is because of that, Hurdle does not want to use the bullpen for 8 innings after Locke gives up 5 runs in the 1st. Spot on though, an overwhelming majority of his starts he can't even make it past 5 innings. That is just nowhere good enough for your 5th starter.
 
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PittPoker said:
Oh please. Nutting is so damn cheap. He is looking to trade Melancon to save money, he could have signed Volquez for 20 Million/2 year contract and we probably win the division with him over Locke or Morton. Happ needed to be signed, 12 million a year is nothing in today's market.

There are only so many reclamation projects Nutting can hope to find and turn around. We also need that big bat somewhere too but Nutting won't pay for that so we are stuck with an offense that scores 7 runs 1 game and 2 runs or less the next 6. No way we can ever win a world series like this. Make a wildcard again?? Perhaps but that's it.
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With the moves made by that cheap, know nothing Pirate front office the team only managed to finish with the second best record in all of baseball. What does it say about you agenda to call that bad management. You can bitch and moan and call the Pirates Organization any thing you want but that won't stop them from winning 90 plus games again this year.
 
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PittPoker said:
Happ, who was simply outstanding for us after he was acquired signed with Toronto for 3 years, 36 Million.

Nutting once again shows how cheap he is and lets a guy who could have immensely helped us for relative peanuts in today's market walk. Now we are stuck with Morton and Locke once again and we have no 3rd starter after Cole and Liriano.

Not even going to get started with our offensive woes - as the Cards and Cubs will continue to spend and upgrade their team to compete, the Pirates will hope all their nickel and diming will make this team a World Series Contender.

I see a major drop off this season unless Nutting finds another gem while he dumpster dives yet again. No more lucking out like he did with Kang either. Sad.
Click to expand...

He's not worth 3 years at 36 million.
 
Good points regarding innings. I do love the fact that a 4/5 starter is a top priority. Amazing progress the last five years.
Tallion and Glasnow are the wild cards. If one of them steps up this year we have a hell of a rotation. Not sure what is going on with Kingham.
 
BTW, Nutbags, who has you worried more about his money than yours, is one of the richest owners and all around rich person in America
 
TD_istheman said:
Who cares what he is worth, it's Nuttings money, why are yinzers so worried about nuttings wallet? All teams that try and win pay what it takes. The payroll will be lower this year, cubs will upgrade, we won't even sniff the wildcard
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It is a business, there are budget restraints, and I'd prefer that the team I support spend wisely. 5 years for Russell Martin was way too much. Happ is not worth 3 years at 36 million. Bad contracts can cripple,a club for years. Even the Yankees can spend their way out of their mess. Switching sports, I loved Orpik, but the Caps will regret that deal.
 
How are we not past the point where pitcher wins are relevant? Holy smokes. This has to be the last fan base to believe that.

BTW, Locke pitched more innings last year than JA Happ has pitched in any of his seasons except for one. The hand wringing over Happ is amazing. He is, literally, a poor man's Jeff Locke over his career.

Jeff Locke made an All-Star team because of a fluke stretch of success. It happens. JA Happ screams anomaly.
 
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TD_istheman said:
BTW, Nutbags, who has you worried more about his money than yours, is one of the richest owners and all around rich person in America
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Any owner who spends more than he brings in wont be in business for very long. Hopefully they can use their success to get a better tv deal from root.
 
Pittbaseball11 said:
How are we not past the point where pitcher wins are relevant? Holy smokes. This has to be the last fan base to believe that.
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I'm old fashioned. I keep score, prefer listening to games on the radio, and believe a pitcher giving his team a chance to win most nights is all that matters.
 
MartyInLawrenceville said:
I disagree. An effective fifth starter doesn't necessarily have to have a great record, although it would be nice. It would be nice if Locke could be a .500 pitcher. What you need most is somebody who can eat innings. Locke has never shown to be that guy. He's usually up around the 80 pitch mark in the fourth inning. That's not good enough. If his record isn't going to be good, you can live with that in a fifth starter. What he needs to is at least eat innings to help the staff out.
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So you want the fifth starter to be a .500 pitcher who is also an innings eater? Here's a little secret. There are only 30 teams in the major leagues who would absolutely love it if their fifth starter was an innings eating .500 pitcher.

Guys are fifth starters for a reason. And that reason is almost always that they aren't very good. You know, kind of by definition.
 
dchst23 said:
I'm old fashioned. I keep score, prefer listening to games on the radio, and believe a pitcher giving his team a chance to win most nights is all that matters.
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I agree that it matters, I just don't think it's in any way reflected in W-L record or ERA. Too many non-pitcher variables involved.

It's like saves or RBI's. They're interesting, but you would look at probably 15 other stats before them when trying to figure out if a reliever or a hitter is good at their job.
 
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People just aren't baseball smart is what it comes down too.

Further more a 'crafty lefty' like Locke is still in his developing stage. He isn't overpowering so he will be hit, but pitch placement is his strength and innings makes that better.
 
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