Pitt Centers since 2002. We are as good as our C

[Sean Miller Fan]

02 Lett
03 Lett
04 Taft
05 Taft
06 Gray
07 Gray
08 Blair
09 Blair
10 McGhee
11 McGhee
12 Zanna (Soph)/Taylor (Jr)
13 Adams
14 Zanna
15 Randall/Luther (FR)/Nwankwo/Uchebo
16 Maia/Luther/Nelson-Ododa
17 Young playing out of position
18 Brown/Chukwuka
19 Brown/Chukwuka
20 Brown/Hamilton
21 Coulibaly/Brown

Unsurprisingly, when we've had good centers we've been good. When we haven't, we haven't been. Its almost impossible to go a decade without a P6-level Center but we're approaching that. I mean you'd have to luck into one at some point. This list doesn't even count the total misses: Gilbert, Haughton, Nix, Peace, and now probably Hugley.

 

[str61166]

After reading this I ended up going down a rabbit hole of looking at box scores of old Pitt tournament games in the 00’s... just remembering how mad I got at all of those losses (and how I remember every player on the opposing team that owned Pitt in the losses), and now I’d kill just to make it back to the tournament as like a 11-12 seed even and probably go one and done.

 

[whirlybird optio]

02 Lett
03 Lett
04 Taft
05 Taft
06 Gray
07 Gray
08 Blair
09 Blair
10 McGhee
11 McGhee
12 Zanna (Soph)/Taylor (Jr)
13 Adams
14 Zanna
15 Randall/Luther (FR)/Nwankwo/Uchebo
16 Maia/Luther/Nelson-Ododa
17 Young playing out of position
18 Brown/Chukwuka
19 Brown/Chukwuka
20 Brown/Hamilton
21 Coulibaly/Brown

Unsurprisingly, when we've had good centers we've been good. When we haven't, we haven't been. Its almost impossible to go a decade without a P6-level Center but we're approaching that. I mean you'd have to luck into one at some point. This list doesn't even count the total misses: Gilbert, Haughton, Nix, Peace, and now probably Hugley.

Even though I still am an X fan, I’m sure you could do this with point guards as well.

Knight
Krauser
Fields
Gibbs
Woodall
Robinson

And then it falls off the cliff....

With those 6, we missed the NCAA tournament, twice, right? And since Robinson has left we haven’t made it once.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

02 Lett
03 Lett
04 Taft
05 Taft
06 Gray
07 Gray
08 Blair
09 Blair
10 McGhee
11 McGhee
12 Zanna (Soph)/Taylor (Jr)
13 Adams
14 Zanna
15 Randall/Luther (FR)/Nwankwo/Uchebo
16 Maia/Luther/Nelson-Ododa
17 Young playing out of position
18 Brown/Chukwuka
19 Brown/Chukwuka
20 Brown/Hamilton
21 Coulibaly/Brown

Unsurprisingly, when we've had good centers we've been good. When we haven't, we haven't been. Its almost impossible to go a decade without a P6-level Center but we're approaching that. I mean you'd have to luck into one at some point. This list doesn't even count the total misses: Gilbert, Haughton, Nix, Peace, and now probably Hugley.

I would argue that some of the ”good” centers are only thought of as good because the team around them were pretty good. Someone could take the time to do it but this is only a complete SWAG but I bet if you put up year to year statistical numbers for all of the Centers it would be hard to distinguish the differences. Blair obviously not but I bet so many would look very similar.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

02 Lett
03 Lett
04 Taft
05 Taft
06 Gray
07 Gray
08 Blair
09 Blair
10 McGhee
11 McGhee
12 Zanna (Soph)/Taylor (Jr)
13 Adams
14 Zanna
15 Randall/Luther (FR)/Nwankwo/Uchebo
16 Maia/Luther/Nelson-Ododa
17 Young playing out of position
18 Brown/Chukwuka
19 Brown/Chukwuka
20 Brown/Hamilton
21 Coulibaly/Brown

Unsurprisingly, when we've had good centers we've been good. When we haven't, we haven't been. Its almost impossible to go a decade without a P6-level Center but we're approaching that. I mean you'd have to luck into one at some point. This list doesn't even count the total misses: Gilbert, Haughton, Nix, Peace, and now probably Hugley.

I just had to. I opted to look at the best 10 seasons during this time and average them out and compare those seasons to the last three. It was easiest to just focus on points and rebounds because other statistics like blocks and turnovers just didn’t really matter.

So, on average, in the ten best seasons of that time, your designated centers averaged 11.1 points per game and 8.15 rebounds per game. Here is the breakdown over Capel’s first three years with center by committee based on your assignments.

Best Ten. 11.1 pts, 8.15 Reb
JC 1st yr. 9.6 pts, 8.0 Reb
JC 2nd Yr. 10.4 pts, 7.9 Reb
JC 3rd Yr. 7.5 pts, 6.0 Rebs


Definitely this year the Center by Committee is not working out, but in his first two years Capel didn’t do badly with that design Statistically. However, in my non scientific rankings his first two seasons fall as the 16th and 18th worst out of 19. This season is not done yet so it certainly won’t land at 19 but not sure where it will land.

So looking back just at statistics the top three centers at Pitt during this era.

1. Dejuan Blair
2. Aaron Gray
3. Talib Zanna

After that Taft, Lett and McGee.

Sometimes statistics matter. Sometimes they don’t.

 

[Ski11585]

02 Lett
03 Lett
04 Taft
05 Taft
06 Gray
07 Gray
08 Blair
09 Blair
10 McGhee
11 McGhee
12 Zanna (Soph)/Taylor (Jr)
13 Adams
14 Zanna
15 Randall/Luther (FR)/Nwankwo/Uchebo
16 Maia/Luther/Nelson-Ododa
17 Young playing out of position
18 Brown/Chukwuka
19 Brown/Chukwuka
20 Brown/Hamilton
21 Coulibaly/Brown

Unsurprisingly, when we've had good centers we've been good. When we haven't, we haven't been. Its almost impossible to go a decade without a P6-level Center but we're approaching that. I mean you'd have to luck into one at some point. This list doesn't even count the total misses: Gilbert, Haughton, Nix, Peace, and now probably Hugley.

A decade? Try 5 years. Whether or not you think Young was out of position, he put up good numbers as a C.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Interesting to look at that list.
Gary McGhee, when he first got here, NO ONE would have EVER predicted he would become the player he became.
He was Brownish his first year. Remember he commited 2 fouls in 2 seconds or something like that. Couldn't score, looked lost, looked bad!
2 years later, he was a force in the middle.
Through coaching, hard work, or a combination of the two, he found his role. Never strayed from it and became a reliable piece on those teams.

I remember running into him at Heinz Field during a spring game, or something, and I made it a point to shake his hand and compliment him on all his hard work becoming the player he did.
Good guy. Think he made some money playing in Europe. Good for him!

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Interesting to look at that list.
Gary McGhee, when he first got here, NO ONE would have EVER predicted he would become the player he became.
He was Brownish his first year. Remember he commited 2 fouls in 2 seconds or something like that. Couldn't score, looked lost, looked bad!
2 years later, he was a force in the middle.
Through coaching, hard work, or a combination of the two, he found his role. Never strayed from it and became a reliable piece on those teams.

I remember running into him at Heinz Field during a spring game, or something, and I made it a point to shake his hand and compliment him on all his hard work becoming the player he did.
Good guy. Think he made some money playing in Europe. Good for him!

Gary McGhee, Pittsburgh Panthers, Center

Gary McGhee is a Center (BK) from Anderson, IN.

247sports.com

McGhee was a 4 star national recruit. I agree with you that he was a hard worker but he also had some talent to begin with.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Gary McGhee, Pittsburgh Panthers, Center

Gary McGhee is a Center (BK) from Anderson, IN.

247sports.com

McGhee was a 4 star national recruit. I agree with you that he was a hard worker but he also had some takent to begin with.

Didn't realize he was that highly rated. His first year here was brutal. Turned out good though.

 

[NCanton Panther]

I think it’s only common sense to say having a good center, whether offensively, defensively or both is going to improve your prospects and W-L record, but how many times this year, last, 2, 5, x years ago can you say the center position was our weakest link, where we most got abused by the opponent, was the primary reason for a loss, etc.

Me, I can’t hang the largest blame on the center position.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I just had to. I opted to look at the best 10 seasons during this time and average them out and compare those seasons to the last three. It was easiest to just focus on points and rebounds because other statistics like blocks and turnovers just didn’t really matter.

So, on average, in the ten best seasons of that time, your designated centers averaged 11.1 points per game and 8.15 rebounds per game. Here is the breakdown over Capel’s first three years with center by committee based on your assignments.

Best Ten. 11.1 pts, 8.15 Reb
JC 1st yr. 9.6 pts, 8.0 Reb
JC 2nd Yr. 10.4 pts, 7.9 Reb
JC 3rd Yr. 7.5 pts, 6.0 Rebs


Definitely this year the Center by Committee is not working out, but in his first two years Capel didn’t do badly with that design Statistically. However, in my non scientific rankings his first two seasons fall as the 16th and 18th worst out of 19. This season is not done yet so it certainly won’t land at 19 but not sure where it will land.

So looking back just at statistics the top three centers at Pitt during this era.

1. Dejuan Blair
2. Aaron Gray
3. Talib Zanna

After that Taft, Lett and McGee.

Sometimes statistics matter. Sometimes they don’t.

What you did is very inaccurate because you probably didn't include the backups in the good years. Kendall was the starting PF but backup C to Gray so it would be impossible to include his stats. Same situation with Biggs and Blair. Did you include Morris's backing up Lett's?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Even though I still am an X fan, I’m sure you could do this with point guards as well.

Knight
Krauser
Fields
Gibbs
Woodall
Robinson

And then it falls off the cliff....

With those 6, we missed the NCAA tournament, twice, right? And since Robinson has left we haven’t made it once.

I agree. I think in college basketball, its most important to be strong at the 1 and 5 simply because its not easy to find quality players in those positions. If you're strong at the 1 and 5, guys like Horton and Toney grow on trees and are somewhat easy to find. I mean JWF was as good as any H-D player his senior year. Much easier to fill in 2s, 3s, and 4s.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

What you did is very inaccurate because you probably didn't include the backups in the good years. Kendall was the starting PF but backup C to Gray so it would be impossible to include his stats. Same situation with Biggs and Blair. Did you include Morris's backing up Lett's?

Dude, I included only the names you laid out as Centers. No more. No less. You can’t argue the point that here are centers from these years and then when stats are laid out you change where your bar is.

Go back and revise your initial post if you want do a new history or perspective.

 

[DT_PITT]

Interesting to look at that list.
Gary McGhee, when he first got here, NO ONE would have EVER predicted he would become the player he became.
He was Brownish his first year. Remember he commited 2 fouls in 2 seconds or something like that. Couldn't score, looked lost, looked bad!
2 years later, he was a force in the middle.
Through coaching, hard work, or a combination of the two, he found his role. Never strayed from it and became a reliable piece on those teams.

I remember running into him at Heinz Field during a spring game, or something, and I made it a point to shake his hand and compliment him on all his hard work becoming the player he did.
Good guy. Think he made some money playing in Europe. Good for him!

3 fouls in 1 second.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Dude, I included only the names you laid out as Centers. No more. No less. You can’t argue the point that here are centers from these years and then when stats are laid out you change where your bar is.

Go back and revise your initial post if you want do a new history or perspective.

OK, then your post was basically irrelevant because you left off 15-20 minutes of production. Even the best of those Centers rarely played more than 25 MPG.

 

[Elsalvador]

How badly would we take Gary McGhee right now?!? We need some impactful BIGS and quickly.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

OK, then your post was basically irrelevant because you left off 15-20 minutes of production. Even the best of those Centers rarely played more than 25 MPG.

I left off nothing. Your original post identified the centers for those years. I only used your data to input. So junk in is junk out.

 

[levance2]

I think this is misleading because Dixon built his entire offense around a big, strong offensive rebounder giving us more chances and higher offensive efficiency. We've had zero offensive identity since Dixon left, and that is both the cause and effect of us being pretty terrible.

Obviously we can never know, but I'd like to think a player like T. Brown would've developed a lot better under a Dixon staff. It was pretty rare for us to have a big who didn't develop.

Then again, I could probably say the same thing about XJ. There's no way we'd see him doing the things he does as a junior if he was playing under Dixon.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

Dixon recruited and developed these positions well for how basketball was played then. The point guard would dribble it up the court and run a zone offense against a zone or a motion offense with screens and feeding the post against the man. It was great for Pitt.

Then basketball changed. Some unholy combination of rules changes, analytics, and AAU led to the ubiquitous high pick and roll and Iso + three point shooting game. Dixon had a hard time adjusting to it, especially overlapped with a change of conference and recruiting turf (and some of the Catholics schools he'd recruit from straight up closed.)

Big guys still matter (see below) but I don't think you can just replicate Dixon-ball so easily, which is why he isn't doing that in TCU either.

Even without a lot of post-up in hoops today, you still need a good rim defender who can also consistently grab rebounds above the rim. We don't have that and to that extent I agree with the original post. But overall I'd say X's inconsistent play is the bigger factor at the more key position of this era.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Dixon recruited and developed these positions well for how basketball was played then. The point guard would dribble it up the court and run a zone offense against a zone or a motion offense with screens and feeding the post against the man. It was great for Pitt.

Then basketball changed. Some unholy combination of rules changes, analytics, and AAU led to the ubiquitous high pick and roll and Iso + three point shooting game. Dixon had a hard time adjusting to it, especially overlapped with a change of conference and recruiting turf (and some of the Catholics schools he'd recruit from straight up closed.)

Big guys still matter (see below) but I don't think you can just replicate Dixon-ball so easily, which is why he isn't doing that in TCU either.

Even without a lot of post-up in hoops today, you still need a good rim defender who can also consistently grab rebounds above the rim. We don't have that and to that extent I agree with the original post. But overall I'd say X's inconsistent play is the bigger factor at the more key position of this era.

Truth to this but that said if we had McGhee during Stallings's first year...or ANY average 5 like NC State's Funderburke and Bates, we would have made the NCAAT that year and also last year and this year. As flawed as those teams are/were, a legit 5 makes all the difference.

 

[Jeffburgh]

I just had to. I opted to look at the best 10 seasons during this time and average them out and compare those seasons to the last three. It was easiest to just focus on points and rebounds because other statistics like blocks and turnovers just didn’t really matter.

So, on average, in the ten best seasons of that time, your designated centers averaged 11.1 points per game and 8.15 rebounds per game. Here is the breakdown over Capel’s first three years with center by committee based on your assignments.

Best Ten. 11.1 pts, 8.15 Reb
JC 1st yr. 9.6 pts, 8.0 Reb
JC 2nd Yr. 10.4 pts, 7.9 Reb
JC 3rd Yr. 7.5 pts, 6.0 Rebs


Definitely this year the Center by Committee is not working out, but in his first two years Capel didn’t do badly with that design Statistically. However, in my non scientific rankings his first two seasons fall as the 16th and 18th worst out of 19. This season is not done yet so it certainly won’t land at 19 but not sure where it will land.

So looking back just at statistics the top three centers at Pitt during this era.

1. Dejuan Blair
2. Aaron Gray
3. Talib Zanna

After that Taft, Lett and McGee.

Sometimes statistics matter. Sometimes they don’t.

Blair and this is an NCAA team
Gray, Zanna and Taft and they would be at least .500 in the league and pushing for the NCAA tournament.
Lett and McGhee and they would be pushing .500.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I think sometimes statistics don't tell the whole story. We so lack physicalness. Big teams with big guys bully us. Hell, I would take 12-15 minutes of Torree Morris and his 5 fouls right now. We don't make the other teams bigs work at all.

 

[FreeportPanther]

I think sometimes statistics don't tell the whole story. We so lack physicalness. Big teams with big guys bully us. Hell, I would take 12-15 minutes of Torree Morris and his 5 fouls right now. We don't make the other teams bigs work at all.

Congratulations on using the word "Physicalness". I did not believe this was an actual word, but I looked it up and there it was!
I had heard Physicality before but never physicalness so four *'s for expanding my vocabulary!

 

[BFo8]

Big guys still matter (see below) but I don't think you can just replicate Dixon-ball so easily, which is why he isn't doing that in TCU either.

Definitely agree with that, after yesterday’s embarrassing loss to a horrible Kansas St team Dixon’s conference record at TCU now stands at 33-50 (.398).

Times change, what may have worked at one point doesn’t work indefinitely. Coaches need to always be willing to evolve and change up the way they do things.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

I think sometimes statistics don't tell the whole story. We so lack physicalness. Big teams with big guys bully us. Hell, I would take 12-15 minutes of Torree Morris and his 5 fouls right now. We don't make the other teams bigs work at all.

Below are the team statistics from arguable our best season inn 2008-2009 and for the current season.

What dictates physicality? I guess taking it inside the paint but no statistics for that. Maybe 2 pt shots vs 3 pt shots. If you are afraid to come in to the lane maybe you are jacking up more 3s?

Well the stats are just the reverse of what I expected. More 2 point shots against Dejuan’s team than AKC/Brown. More 3 point shots against AKC/Brown where you might expect teams just to drive at will on those two weak links,

No way am I saying that this team today is tougher than the team back then. What I am saying is the 08 team was better offensively and scored a lot while still playing solid defense, hence the 13 point gap in points for vs against.



2008-2009 season
Per Game Totals

Entity	G	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	2P	2PA	2P%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
Team	36	40.0	28.9	60.4	.478	22.6	42.6	.531	6.3	17.8	.352	13.4	19.8	.676	14.8	25.0	39.8	17.6	6.8	3.9	12.1	16.3	77.4
Rank			8th	31st	20th	8th	27th	27th	164th	181st	122nd	193rd	178th	221st	10th	63rd	9th	6th	142nd	80th	310th	310th	29th
Opponent	36	40.0	23.1	56.7	.407	16.7	37.4	.448	6.4	19.3	.329						30.5				12.8		64.4
Rank			132nd	223rd	51st	117th	183rd	57th	200th	232nd	94th						27th	339th			77th		89th

This season.
Per Game
Totals

	G	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	2P	2PA	2P%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
Team	18	40.0	25.6	59.3	.432	19.2	39.4	.487	6.4	19.9	.324	14.5	21.6	.673	12.8	25.8	38.6	15.4	6.1	3.4	12.3	17.3	72.2
Rank			177th	126th	217th	120th	75th	235th	258th	250th	241st	91st	48th	272nd	21st	162nd	48th	60th	217th	143rd	250th	181st	160th
Opponent	18	40.0	25.1	57.7	.434	17.8	34.6	.514	7.3	23.1	.316	12.9	18.3	.703	9.6	24.6	34.1	15.9	6.0	4.3	12.7	18.1	70.3
Rank			173rd	169th	190th	177th	114th	251st	170th	248th	81st	185th	191st	157th	162nd	133rd	140th	288th	128th	333rd	115th	219th	189th

 

[levance2]

Truth to this but that said if we had McGhee during Stallings's first year...or ANY average 5 like NC State's Funderburke and Bates, we would have made the NCAAT that year and also last year and this year. As flawed as those teams are/were, a legit 5 makes all the difference.

You're saying that because it is objectively our weakest position. During our prime, everyone complained that we'd be so much better if Dixon could ever recruit a dominant SG, because that was frequently our weakest position.

Shocking to nobody, replacing your weakest position with a very talented player makes you a better team!

 

[Black Panther]

02 Lett
03 Lett
04 Taft
05 Taft
06 Gray
07 Gray
08 Blair
09 Blair
10 McGhee
11 McGhee
12 Zanna (Soph)/Taylor (Jr)
13 Adams
14 Zanna
15 Randall/Luther (FR)/Nwankwo/Uchebo
16 Maia/Luther/Nelson-Ododa
17 Young playing out of position
18 Brown/Chukwuka
19 Brown/Chukwuka
20 Brown/Hamilton
21 Coulibaly/Brown

Unsurprisingly, when we've had good centers we've been good. When we haven't, we haven't been. Its almost impossible to go a decade without a P6-level Center but we're approaching that. I mean you'd have to luck into one at some point. This list doesn't even count the total misses: Gilbert, Haughton, Nix, Peace, and now probably Hugley.

Can’t forget Tory Morris.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You're saying that because it is objectively our weakest position. During our prime, everyone complained that we'd be so much better if Dixon could ever recruit a dominant SG, because that was frequently our weakest position.

Shocking to nobody, replacing your weakest position with a very talented player makes you a better team!

Well, yea. Under Dixon, we were a SG away from like winning a NC. Now, we're a C away from being a bubble team

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Congratulations on using the word "Physicalness". I did not believe this was an actual word, but I looked it up and there it was!
I had heard Physicality before but never physicalness so four *'s for expanding my vocabulary!

That's fine, but my point is????

 

[FreeportPanther]

That's fine, but my point is????

Point?? What point???

 

[Pitt79]

I think sometimes statistics don't tell the whole story. We so lack physicalness. Big teams with big guys bully us. Hell, I would take 12-15 minutes of Torree Morris and his 5 fouls right now. We don't make the other teams bigs work at all.

Torree Morris would probably have been the starter the last 4 years LOL

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Torree Morris would probably have been the starter the last 4 years LOL

probably?

 

[Pitt79]

probably?

As I remember him, Torree didn't have good hands, but he was a presence compared to the current guys, he was like 6-11 280 if I remember correctly.