Pitt dropping Tennis
- Thread starter TIGER-PAUL
- Start date
i love the people moaning about this. give me a break. no one cares about women's college tennis. when the whole team is international also-rans, then what is the point?
meanwhile, girls all over are playing lacrosse, and the rest of the conference we are in cares about lacrosse a lot. this is a now brainer.
i defy anyone outside of friends and family of players to prove they ever attended a match.
i'm a lifelong tennis player and fan. and even i can admit that college tennis is dumb. unless maybe you're in a warm weather area that cares about the sport or one of the mega schools that participates in every sport.
meanwhile, girls all over are playing lacrosse, and the rest of the conference we are in cares about lacrosse a lot. this is a now brainer.
i defy anyone outside of friends and family of players to prove they ever attended a match.
i'm a lifelong tennis player and fan. and even i can admit that college tennis is dumb. unless maybe you're in a warm weather area that cares about the sport or one of the mega schools that participates in every sport.
One of the few opportunities for females to get an athletic scholarship, they don’t get many sports with 85 scholarships.
Total female scholarships probably don’t add up to 85. How many other ACC schools don’t have women’s tennis?
Total female scholarships probably don’t add up to 85. How many other ACC schools don’t have women’s tennis?
i had to look it up but, it seems all of them. but we're adding lacrosse so i'm guessing the scholarships are roughly a wash.
What is the difference between women's tennis and every other sport at Pitt most people don't care about?
so......BC should drop womens hockey because no one in the ACC plays?
This move is difficult but prudent.
Very difficult, but it seems the department knows that it can't put it's full support (facilities, etc) behind this program long term, and it's best to move on. Probably overall the right decision.
We needed to build a tennis facility and it was cost prohibitive when we looked at the numbers. Lacrosse was seen as more bang for your buck.
you can't use a tennis facility for anything else. lacrosse fields can be used any day of the week you want for a variety of activities. no brainer.
we're dead last in the ACC. a historically poor program. you'd have to throw a lot at it just to be moderately competitive. not worth it.
Tough call to drop any sport, but probably the right call. The current model with having to travel so far for games and practices wasn’t the most sustainable, and building a facility on or closer to campus probably wasn’t the most efficient use of limited space considering that we don’t sponsor a men’s team. Investing in a lacrosse facility makes more sense given the expanded capabilities that an additional turf field brings versus a facility with a bunch of tennis courts.
Question to those who would know - when lacrosse was announced it was said that it was necessary to add another women’s sport for scholarship purposes. Will the athletic department still be in compliance with what they need to comply with after this move?
Question to those who would know - when lacrosse was announced it was said that it was necessary to add another women’s sport for scholarship purposes. Will the athletic department still be in compliance with what they need to comply with after this move?
Plus from a Title IX standpoint it's only an 8 person team. And recruiting is international so it cost a lot.
Just googled it Lacrosse gets 12 ships so the net gain is 4 ships for women.
We're more concerned about the overall head count of men/women for Title IX purposes. The tennis only had 7-8 members whereas lacrosse has around 30.
Not family or friends of anyone on the team and I went to see them play in Harmar & on CMU's campus during the last Big East years. I went a few times just because one of the players was super cool and appreciative that I came out.
I like this move. Pitt should continue to drop non-TV, non-spectator sports like Track and Field, especially if there is no on-campus facility.
Not sure how old you are but my daughter plays D1 soccer and has had several older people that have taken a liking to her, and have gone out and supported her during her season. And as a result, they’ve become soccer fans!
I’m not sure this is relative to this thread, but I think it’s really cool that you went out and supported an Olympic sport athlete. I’m sure the tennis player was happy to see you.
Do I really need to explain this? Lol. I’m a parent and she’s an adult. We are comfortable with the professors, admin or boosters and their support. It doesn’t extend beyond public gatherings.
they keyword is "old." picturing some creeper hanging out trying to make moves on a teenager.
I've been donating to women's tennis for over 20 years and have been pretty involved with the team the past 5 years. My son played tennis at BC so I saw first hand how little support a non-revenue sport can get from an athletic department. As I've said in my posts about wrestling, you don't have to donate much to make a difference in tennis. I wasn't happy reading some of the comments here, especially the character-attacking ones by Pitt90seven, but finally felt the need to offer the facts. One comment to Pitt90seven first. Before I post anything anywhere, I reread my comments and ask myself what my kids would think about me if they read them. You should think hard about that. It's not necessary for me to address your comments because you do a really good job of demeaning yourself all by yourself. So here are the facts.
Five years ago, Pitt hired Alex Santos to be our tennis coach from the Miami Hurricanes where he was named the top college assistant coach in the country. He fits the description of the kind of coach Heather would hire so this decision doesn't reflect on the coach. He knew the deal when he accepted the job, no facilities and the stigma of a second-class program. He was used to recruiting the top players at Miami, in the US and abroad. For those of you that don't know, college tennis teams typically have more than 50% of their roster filled with international players. Coach Santos is Portuguese, was formerly a top player and, prior to going to Miami, worked at the most prestigious tennis school in Europe, located in Barcelona, similar to the Bolletieri school in Florida.
He inherited a team that needed a complete makeover. His mindset was to win first and ask for facilities later. His only choice was to recruit internationally because no top-ranked American girl would come here. Coach has great contacts internationally and worked hard to get into the living rooms of the top players. His recruiting has gotten better each year but it's hard to show progress in wins and losses in the ACC. Last year we started to see glimmers - we beat the #1 ranked doubles team in a dual match, we had a freshman make real progress and enter this year as the highest ranked player ever at Pitt, we beat BC and came so close to beating a few others. Recruiting for next year was further advanced than ever, with 3 commitments, a fourth imminent and the real possibility of adding our highest ranked junior ever, someone who could go toe-to-toe with the #1's at Duke, UNC, etc.
So Coach Santos, against all odds, was beginning to deliver on his promise. Over the past 5 years, through 3 AD's, outside of Maureen Anderson, Kirk Bruce and a handful of others, there was no presence or interest shown by the athletic department. I thought that would change under the current administration, but it never did. The decision was made to drop the program because the athletic department did not believe they could compete for an ACC championship. I can say that was decided by individuals that never took the time to understand the progress that was being made but I'd be slighting the one or two that probably defended the program. Facilities would have been nice but that wasn't the issue here. A modicum of support would have. For me, it's a real sad moment to lose the friends that I've made, Coach Santos and the young women who you would be proud to know.
I will always say Hail to Pitt even with this disappointment.
Five years ago, Pitt hired Alex Santos to be our tennis coach from the Miami Hurricanes where he was named the top college assistant coach in the country. He fits the description of the kind of coach Heather would hire so this decision doesn't reflect on the coach. He knew the deal when he accepted the job, no facilities and the stigma of a second-class program. He was used to recruiting the top players at Miami, in the US and abroad. For those of you that don't know, college tennis teams typically have more than 50% of their roster filled with international players. Coach Santos is Portuguese, was formerly a top player and, prior to going to Miami, worked at the most prestigious tennis school in Europe, located in Barcelona, similar to the Bolletieri school in Florida.
He inherited a team that needed a complete makeover. His mindset was to win first and ask for facilities later. His only choice was to recruit internationally because no top-ranked American girl would come here. Coach has great contacts internationally and worked hard to get into the living rooms of the top players. His recruiting has gotten better each year but it's hard to show progress in wins and losses in the ACC. Last year we started to see glimmers - we beat the #1 ranked doubles team in a dual match, we had a freshman make real progress and enter this year as the highest ranked player ever at Pitt, we beat BC and came so close to beating a few others. Recruiting for next year was further advanced than ever, with 3 commitments, a fourth imminent and the real possibility of adding our highest ranked junior ever, someone who could go toe-to-toe with the #1's at Duke, UNC, etc.
So Coach Santos, against all odds, was beginning to deliver on his promise. Over the past 5 years, through 3 AD's, outside of Maureen Anderson, Kirk Bruce and a handful of others, there was no presence or interest shown by the athletic department. I thought that would change under the current administration, but it never did. The decision was made to drop the program because the athletic department did not believe they could compete for an ACC championship. I can say that was decided by individuals that never took the time to understand the progress that was being made but I'd be slighting the one or two that probably defended the program. Facilities would have been nice but that wasn't the issue here. A modicum of support would have. For me, it's a real sad moment to lose the friends that I've made, Coach Santos and the young women who you would be proud to know.
I will always say Hail to Pitt even with this disappointment.
People don't realize how devastating these decisions are to the coaching staff, players, and alumni. While I understand their rationale from a business perspective, there is no way for someone that cares about the athletic department and its athletes not to be very disappointed when you cut a varsity sport that has been around for 43 years and that all 14 other ACC schools sponsor. It is a very poor decision from the latter perspective, especially based on the progress of the program. We all know the colliegiate athletics game, but the hypocrisy of claiming to care about student athletes and then cut sports for business purposes is glaringly obvious to every student athlete and coach. As far as I know, there was no effort to save the program by targeted fundraising to boosters or alumni. This is a negative mark on Lyke, and there is no way around it.
Nish, did they give you the courtesy of a heads up explanation on this? I hope they did.
You've certainly have measured responses on here than I would; luckily many of the imbeciles have been on my ignore list for a long time so I have the benefit of not wasting a second on their drivel.
Are there any tennis-specifc endowed scholarships and what happens to those now?
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Name another ACC school that has dropped a conference sponsored sports program. They're all adding.
Even Maryland attempted to first fund raise for their sports that were on the chopping block (ultimately saved by the Big 10 front loaded payments). WVU saved their rifle program through fundraising. There was no public attempt at fundraising to see if support could be rallied. Was there are private attempt? Nish may be the only one that would know this. I know the implications to a program's operations of even suggesting a sport is on the chopping block, but in my opinion, better to regress for a time and save a program, especially a conference program, than lose it forever. If there was no private attempt it is a pretty insulting slap to 40 years of tennis alumni and boosters. I would have at least set a target to keep the program and tried to rally support, at least privately, and see what could have been raised. The program consists of only 2 fairly low paid coaches and 8 athletes.
$10-15m would have permanently endowed this program forever. I know that's not easy to raise, but there was no red alert sounded and who knows who comes out of the woodwork. Heck, they could have tried something innovate like selling naming rights to the entire tennis program. I would feel better about the decision if I know they at least attempted to reach out to Tennis alumnae and boosters behind closed doors with something like "we need $15m committed by Dec 2020".
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Paco, always happy to read your comments. As for my measured responses, I've been around the block a few times, have heard and seen the highs and lows that some people can reach, and no longer feel the need to vent and stoop to their levels.
As to your other questions, I'm not aware of any attempt to reach out for private funding. The sad fact is only 3% of alums have donated to athletics and that includes football. Can't imagine there is anyone out there with a spare $10-15 million for tennis. But, Paco, that's not what we needed to keep the momentum going. The Oxford people have been great to Pitt. We have plenty of signage when we play, including a giant scoreboard. Coach Santos has begun doing clinics for members and their kids as a way of building a community following. What we needed at this point was practice courts closer to campus. The Mellon bubble up Forbes, even CMU's courts could have been an option. I never got the feeling that any priority was given to this.
Let me add a bit more to show the progress the team has made. Our out-of-conference schedule, played in the fall, is pretty daunting. It helps strengthen the team and we've actually started beating Penn State, WVU, Ivy's like Harvard and others. The ACC is ridiculously hard but we've started to rise as I mentioned in my first post. If the Athletic Department's measure is competing for ACC championships, I agree that will be hard to reach. Can we be middle of the pack in a few years, hell yes, especially with the 2020 recruits. When will Track be middle of the pack? Women's basketball? Baseball? Maybe within the same time frame as Tennis. Will they compete for ACC championships? I sure as heck hope so. Why cut Tennis now? I take our AD's comments at face value and, yes, I was given a heads-up. I don't like it but I didn't make my donations to get involved in the inner workings of the department. My joy comes from interacting with the coaches and student-athletes and sharing in their successes. Now, unfortunately, I'll share their pain.
As to your other questions, I'm not aware of any attempt to reach out for private funding. The sad fact is only 3% of alums have donated to athletics and that includes football. Can't imagine there is anyone out there with a spare $10-15 million for tennis. But, Paco, that's not what we needed to keep the momentum going. The Oxford people have been great to Pitt. We have plenty of signage when we play, including a giant scoreboard. Coach Santos has begun doing clinics for members and their kids as a way of building a community following. What we needed at this point was practice courts closer to campus. The Mellon bubble up Forbes, even CMU's courts could have been an option. I never got the feeling that any priority was given to this.
Let me add a bit more to show the progress the team has made. Our out-of-conference schedule, played in the fall, is pretty daunting. It helps strengthen the team and we've actually started beating Penn State, WVU, Ivy's like Harvard and others. The ACC is ridiculously hard but we've started to rise as I mentioned in my first post. If the Athletic Department's measure is competing for ACC championships, I agree that will be hard to reach. Can we be middle of the pack in a few years, hell yes, especially with the 2020 recruits. When will Track be middle of the pack? Women's basketball? Baseball? Maybe within the same time frame as Tennis. Will they compete for ACC championships? I sure as heck hope so. Why cut Tennis now? I take our AD's comments at face value and, yes, I was given a heads-up. I don't like it but I didn't make my donations to get involved in the inner workings of the department. My joy comes from interacting with the coaches and student-athletes and sharing in their successes. Now, unfortunately, I'll share their pain.
I get bent by individuals that clearly don't respect the athletes and staff that put so much effort in to representing the university and region as best they can for no accolades whatsoever. They just don't understand how much time and sweat goes into it.
I know they don't need that sort of millions to significantly advance the program, but that sort of endowment would probably protect the program for perpetuity from ever being cut since it would eliminate a huge portion of the annual expense of running it. If only I was a billionaire.
I appreciate the information. I've definitely noticed the improvement in the program including the non-conference wins. It is very frustrating that they'd pull the rug out from under this program. I feel so bad for Alex. I also feel bad for you with so much of your own effort and resources that you've put into supporting this program. You deserve to be pissed, but I'm glad they gave you a heads up. That was the minimal courtesy they could give you. I just don't necessarily feel like they went about this the fair or right way.
The unintended consequences of "do gooder" gov't regulation which almost always creates a bad result!
But as a team and as individuals the Women's Tennis Program should have taken the initiative to begin exploring and implementing fund raising efforts to show the administration it's willing and able to help itself.
When you just stand there with your hand out it's easy for people to ignore you.
Unfortunately tennis is a sport that's at the end of it's life cycle in the US.
Mrs Buffett and I were in a local summer outdoor tennis league that had close to 500 members in the 90's. Today the league doesn't exist.
In the past we had around 50 outdoor courts for use, today there's one park with 6 outdoor courts. Two big clubs with indoor /outdoor courts shutdown.
Tennis courts are being taken down, sporting goods stores that used to have large sections for tennis equipment and apparel have dropped the product line.
But had the PITT women's tennis program helped itself it might still be around!
Lehigh U built an indoor/outdoor tennis center which they help finance by renting courts out to the public. Since most places are closed they're the only game in town.
Bubble indoor /outdoor tennis facilities are the most cost efficient to build and maintain.
I'm was surprised to hear that PITT didn't have indoor and outdoor tennis facilities. When you travel the small private and state U's in PA you see tennis court complexes at most places.
Another example of how PITT administrations mis-managed sports programs going way back.
'it's five o'clock somewhere"
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go PITT & CSU Rams!
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Your ignore list. You are a joke.
The only communication you like is whatever you agree with if supports your views.
Otherwise you launch into your name calling swear word rants. Great self control.
Read it all, respond if you want to or not like most posters!
Buffet, I don't understand your point about the tennis team not helping itself. Are you expecting 18/19 year old kids and one coach to make up for the lack of attention from our athletic department by making cold calls to an alumni base that is the lowest rated in donations to all sports in the ACC?
Are you aware that Pitt was approached by the City's head of parks and recreation several years ago to jointly develop an indoor/outdoor tennis facility in Schenley Park and after much discussion was vetoed by Peduto?
If it had gone forward there actually was a fund-raising effort planned.
I could add more but to what end? Your jab at the team not helping itself is misplaced. Can we just leave this be and move on.
Are you aware that Pitt was approached by the City's head of parks and recreation several years ago to jointly develop an indoor/outdoor tennis facility in Schenley Park and after much discussion was vetoed by Peduto?
If it had gone forward there actually was a fund-raising effort planned.
I could add more but to what end? Your jab at the team not helping itself is misplaced. Can we just leave this be and move on.
I think we all know what motivates Bike Lane Bill. Unfortunately whoever was involved in the process didn’t know and wasn’t able to identify what his own personal win was and build the proposal into something that fit his agenda. But this isn’t the board for that. It’s too bad.
it never fails. We can't seem to get across the finish line with anything in Schenley.
That’s sales 101. Finding out what it was that truly was in it for him was not properly identified. Pitt should have guaranteed rainbow colored uniforms and special bathrooms that cater to the 100+ genders that we apparently have now. I’m not trying to make light of an unfortunate situation. But republicans and Dems alike would probably all agree that the plan simply wasn’t progressive enough.
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