Pitt transfers

[levance2]

saw this tweet today:


I noticed Troy Simons wasn’t on their roster anymore. He transferred to Kent State and has to sit out this year.

Kithcart played 17 minutes for ODU in their opener but didn’t play in the next game. Not sure why.

Ryan Luther has 17 and 5 in 20 minutes in Arizona’s second game.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

saw this tweet today:

View embedded media

I noticed Troy Simons wasn’t on their roster anymore. He transferred to Kent State and has to sit out this year.

Kithcart played 17 minutes for ODU in their opener but didn’t play in the next game. Not sure why.

Ryan Luther has 17 and 5 in 20 minutes in Arizona’s second game.

I didn't think Manigault was any good. However, I did think that if Stallings was going to keep any of Dixon's non-ACC level underclassmen, it should have been him. At least he's 6'8.

He did very little in JUCO. Very surprised by this. Good for him.

Damon Wilson is playing a lot but has gone for 6, 0, and 5. He is the classic Dixon non-scoring/non-scooting backcourt player.

Just for fun, do we beat this team?

PG - Kithcart
SG - Wilson
SF - Johnson
PF - Luther
C - Manigault

 

[FireballZ]

Yeah, letting Manigault go, given who else was brought in to replace him, never really made sense, especially given his connection to Thompson, who didn't perform well last year at Butler despite some serious game action on a solid team. Really like our current guards, so not going to sweat it too much. I still have to believe something went on behind the scenes w/ Manigault. He clearly was out of shape his freshman season.

 

[pittchagg]

Stallings running Manigault out of the program after his true freshman season, given all of the factors (position of need, impact on recruiting given his high school/AAU connection, replacing his roster spot), was my personal final straw in determining that Stallings shouldn’t be long for the program. It was an incredibly short-sighted decision, and one that almost certainly is hurting Pitt’s roster today. I believe that Manigault (and Thompson, who is not here because of Manigault) would have gotten minutes under Capel this year. I still like our current guards more than Thompson, but I think he would have been a contributor and I think Manigault would have been a serious contributor, if not a starter, in the frontcourt this year.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Stallings running Manigault out of the program after his true freshman season, given all of the factors (position of need, impact on recruiting given his high school/AAU connection, replacing his roster spot), was my personal final straw in determining that Stallings shouldn’t be long for the program. It was an incredibly short-sighted decision, and one that almost certainly is hurting Pitt’s roster today. I believe that Manigault (and Thompson, who is not here because of Manigault) would have gotten minutes under Capel this year. I still like our current guards more than Thompson, but I think he would have been a contributor and I think Manigault would have been a serious contributor, if not a starter, in the frontcourt this year.

I agree. Barnes hire of Stallings was strike one, Stallings failure to find a point guard transfer to play in year #1 was strike #2, Stallings complete blow-up the roster which included Manigault and the associated bad effect on Thompson's recruitment was strike #3 for me. After half the OOC schedule was played in the aftermath "I took my ball and went home" (i.e., was so disgusted that I didn't want to watch a single Pitt hoops game the rest of the season.)

 

[levance2]

Just for fun, do we beat this team?

PG - Kithcart
SG - Wilson
SF - Johnson
PF - Luther
C - Manigault

Hard to say because CJ and Luther are probably significantly better and more experienced than what we have, but the other three aren’t likely much better if any.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Just for fun, do we beat this team?

PG - Kithcart
SG - Wilson
SF - Johnson
PF - Luther
C - Manigault

Hard to say because CJ and Luther are probably significantly better and more experienced than what we have, but the other three aren’t likely much better if any.

We would have a huge advantage in the backcourt as Wilson/Kithcart are terrible. Luther and Johnson are legitimately good players and good Jamie finds. Needed more of those guys.

But the fact that we are not sure if Jamie's guys could beat Capel's freshmen/Stallings's guys in what would be the 4th or 5th year for the Jamie guys is telling.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Stallings running Manigault out of the program after his true freshman season, given all of the factors (position of need, impact on recruiting given his high school/AAU connection, replacing his roster spot), was my personal final straw in determining that Stallings shouldn’t be long for the program. It was an incredibly short-sighted decision, and one that almost certainly is hurting Pitt’s roster today. I believe that Manigault (and Thompson, who is not here because of Manigault) would have gotten minutes under Capel this year. I still like our current guards more than Thompson, but I think he would have been a contributor and I think Manigault would have been a serious contributor, if not a starter, in the frontcourt this year.

I agree. Barnes hire of Stallings was strike one, Stallings failure to find a point guard transfer to play in year #1 was strike #2, Stallings complete blow-up the roster which included Manigault and the associated bad effect on Thompson's recruitment was strike #3 for me. After half the OOC schedule was played in the aftermath "I took my ball and went home" (i.e., was so disgusted that I didn't want to watch a single Pitt hoops game the rest of the season.)

None of the players he got rid of were ACC players. He didn't want Johnson to leave. As for Manigault, he was far from being an ACC player. Perhaps, in year 3 here he would have been. I was fine with everyone leaving except Johnson

 

[pittchagg]

None of the players he got rid of were ACC players. He didn't want Johnson to leave. As for Manigault, he was far from being an ACC player. Perhaps, in year 3 here he would have been. I was fine with everyone leaving except Johnson

Which, as I said before, is an incredibly short-sighted way of building your roster. You don’t run players out of the program - especially bigs, and especially not borderline four-star bigs with serious connections to the most talented recruiting territory in the country - just because they aren’t starting-caliber players in the best conference in college basketball as true freshmen.

Would Capel have run him out of the program had he been here in 2016-17? I don’t believe so. He has all the look of the swing bigs Capel has recruited so far.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Good for Corey, though I don't remember much of the supposed outrage when he left. Seems like revisionist history to act like his departure was met with any angst.

 

[hoopsguy72]

For those speculating, I'm just going to say this: Stallings HAD to show Manigault the door. He couldn't NOT do it. Stallings has taken a lot of heat on these boards, and that heat is understandable and, in many ways, fair. But one thing I've always admired about the guy is that he's been unwilling to torpedo players' careers to save his own skin (I'm not talking about the occasional, "This guy sucked rant in a post-game press conference). If people knew some of the things going on in the program with some of the Dixon holdovers, they'd have applauded HCKS and his decisions—because they were merited.

And one of the things that always bothered me about media hacks like Meyer is that they never bothered to dig for the real story and just accepted the narrative that started with the initial press conference, which was that HCKS was a has-been, know-nothing who was torpedo'ing the program just because he could. Man, was that not the case. ... I cannot, and will not, go into particulars, but I'll just say if I'd been HCKS, I'd have not only shown Manigault the door, I'd have publicly eviscerated him on his way out. He's lucky to be on scholarship anywhere.

P.S. And yes, even with Thompson coming, Manigault had to go. I don't believe Thompson's change of heart had anything to do with Corey being sent packing, either. But if keeping Manigault was the price of getting Thompson, it was too high a price to pay.

 

[pittchagg]

For those speculating, I'm just going to say this: Stallings HAD to show Manigault the door. He couldn't NOT do it. Stallings has taken a lot of heat on these boards, and that heat is understandable and, in many ways, fair. But one thing I've always admired about the guy is that he's been unwilling to torpedo players' careers to save his own skin (I'm not talking about the occasional, "This guy sucked rant in a post-game press conference). If people knew some of the things going on in the program with some of the Dixon holdovers, they'd have applauded HCKS and his decisions—because they were merited.

And one of the things that always bothered me about media hacks like Meyer is that they never bothered to dig for the real story and just accepted the narrative that started with the initial press conference, which was that HCKS was a has-been, know-nothing who was torpedo'ing the program just because he could. Man, was that not the case. ... I cannot, and will not, go into particulars, but I'll just say if I'd been HCKS, I'd have not only shown Manigault the door, I'd have publicly eviscerated him on his way out. He's lucky to be on scholarship anywhere.

P.S. And yes, even with Thompson coming, Manigault had to go. I don't believe Thompson's change of heart had anything to do with Corey being sent packing, either. But if keeping Manigault was the price of getting Thompson, it was too high a price to pay.

I won’t pretend to have any inside knowledge, and I know you’re a knowledgeable poster. If the kid got involved in something criminal or fought Stallings or something like that, it’s a bit of a different story - though I’m a bit surprised that his departure wasn’t described in the same “violation of team rules” language that Justice Kithcart’s was if either of those were the case.

And I do think it’s fair to say that the sheer number of departures during Stallings’ two offseasons give a bit less room for the benefit of the doubt as to whether the roster reshaping was a “all these guys are cancers and need to go” situation or a “I’m going to reconstruct the roster to get the players I think I need to win” situation. Both are judgment calls on the part of the coach, but the sheer number calls leads me to suspect that it was more of the latter.

But that’s all beating a dead horse, more or less. I’m pleased with where we are now, even if it’s a little frustrating to see someone like Manigault potentially become a double double type of player in a different uniform when it’s a position of need here.

 

[JD1976]

Stallings was a historically bad coach and did a poor job here, but let’s not just assume that every decision he made was wrong or that he didn’t have a bit of a stacked deck coming in.

 

[buckage]

For those speculating, I'm just going to say this: Stallings HAD to show Manigault the door. He couldn't NOT do it. Stallings has taken a lot of heat on these boards, and that heat is understandable and, in many ways, fair. But one thing I've always admired about the guy is that he's been unwilling to torpedo players' careers to save his own skin (I'm not talking about the occasional, "This guy sucked rant in a post-game press conference). If people knew some of the things going on in the program with some of the Dixon holdovers, they'd have applauded HCKS and his decisions—because they were merited.

And one of the things that always bothered me about media hacks like Meyer is that they never bothered to dig for the real story and just accepted the narrative that started with the initial press conference, which was that HCKS was a has-been, know-nothing who was torpedo'ing the program just because he could. Man, was that not the case. ... I cannot, and will not, go into particulars, but I'll just say if I'd been HCKS, I'd have not only shown Manigault the door, I'd have publicly eviscerated him on his way out. He's lucky to be on scholarship anywhere.

P.S. And yes, even with Thompson coming, Manigault had to go. I don't believe Thompson's change of heart had anything to do with Corey being sent packing, either. But if keeping Manigault was the price of getting Thompson, it was too high a price to pay.

Bull shit...either give the "real story" or you are no better than Meyer.

 

[H2P 2003]

Look, I know it is fun to rehash this, but I am very happy where we are at right now. Whether it be Dixon recruits or his own, stallings destroyed the program. It is telling that I think this year’s team is fairly significantly better, and has more upside than last years.

Stallings is gone, so is Jamie. Even if it was the wrong decision to run him off, we are in a good place now I feel.

 

[Pittx9]

Dixon wasn’t a great recruiter, but he wasn’t as bad as some made him out to be. His later recruiting classes are actually looking pretty good now. Looks to me like stallings had no need to completely blow the program up.

I do think even this early Capel looks to already be a much better recruiter than even Dixon. He’s done well coaching what is still a pretty inexperienced team too.

Consensus - Kevin Stallings was an absolute joke of a basketball coach.

 

[below0w]

If memory serves, Manigault was quite young for his class and would have likely benefited from a redshirt or even a reclassification. As for this vague talk about why he "had to go", in the absence of specific details I'm not giving Stallings the benefit of the doubt for any decision that he made. If you want to explain why I should, go for it, otherwise skip the innuendo.

 

[hoopsguy72]

Bull shit...either give the "real story" or you are no better than Meyer.

I wish I could. Really, I do. I literally asked someone at the time, "Why the hell won't HCKS explain this? He needs to save his own skin." And I was specifically told that HCKS was adamant that he didn't want to throw kids under the bus and that if any of his staff shared the details, he'd fire them. HCKS wanted some of these players to have a chance to grow up and play the game, just not at Pitt.

I wish I could share what I know, but if I do, I risk burning one of my sources. And I'm not willing to do that just so you won't call BS.

If you want to equate me to Meyer, be my guest. But bear in mind, I pay $9.99/month to share what I know. Meyer gets paid to share what he knows. Big difference.

 

[BigZeke]

I agree. Barnes hire of Stallings was strike one, Stallings failure to find a point guard transfer to play in year #1 was strike #2, Stallings complete blow-up the roster which included Manigault and the associated bad effect on Thompson's recruitment was strike #3 for me. After half the OOC schedule was played in the aftermath "I took my ball and went home" (i.e., was so disgusted that I didn't want to watch a single Pitt hoops game the rest of the season.)

The Kevin Stallings Experience was one of mind blowingly atrocious decison after painful decison and only in sports would be “bought out” after such an utterly incompetent run of employment.

 

[pittman71]

I wish I could. Really, I do. I literally asked someone at the time, "Why the hell won't HCKS explain this? He needs to save his own skin." And I was specifically told that HCKS was adamant that he didn't want to throw kids under the bus and that if any of his staff shared the details, he'd fire them. HCKS wanted some of these players to have a chance to grow up and play the game, just not at Pitt.

I wish I could share what I know, but if I do, I risk burning one of my sources. And I'm not willing to do that just so you won't call BS.

If you want to equate me to Meyer, be my guest. But bear in mind, I pay $9.99/month to share what I know. Meyer gets paid to share what he knows. Big difference.

why would it even matter at this point? Both the player and coach are gone and forgotten. It would just be gossip, I cant imagine anyone really gives a damn about either one at this point. Except maybe their families.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Is this guy an insider with inside information?

It’s hard to tell with how subtle he is about this proclamation.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Bull shit...either give the "real story" or you are no better than Meyer.

I wish I could. Really, I do. I literally asked someone at the time, "Why the hell won't HCKS explain this? He needs to save his own skin." And I was specifically told that HCKS was adamant that he didn't want to throw kids under the bus and that if any of his staff shared the details, he'd fire them. HCKS wanted some of these players to have a chance to grow up and play the game, just not at Pitt.

I wish I could share what I know, but if I do, I risk burning one of my sources. And I'm not willing to do that just so you won't call BS.

If you want to equate me to Meyer, be my guest. But bear in mind, I pay $9.99/month to share what I know. Meyer gets paid to share what he knows. Big difference.

Somebody punched Mike Young. That seemed pretty obvious. I thought it was Kithcart. Maybe it was Manigault

 

[levance2]

Somebody punched Mike Young. That seemed pretty obvious. I thought it was Kithcart. Maybe it was Manigault

Did he deserve it? I say this as a big Mike Young fan.

 

[levance2]

Look, I know it is fun to rehash this, but I am very happy where we are at right now.

I didn't post it for the purpose of rehashing anything, nor to claim Manigault proved to be any sort of talent. I just think, for better or worse, we jettisoned many players in a short period of time, and it's genuinely amusing to find out whether those brief stints were or were not representative of how guys might develop. Sometimes you have a guy like Gary McGhee who totally revolutionizes himself, and other times you have Malcolm Gilbert.

 

[levance2]

For those speculating, I'm just going to say this: Stallings HAD to show Manigault the door. He couldn't NOT do it.

Without any knowledge, I certainly can't refute your opinion here. I'll just say that poor attitudes don't develop in a vacuum. The head coach is responsible for the environment surrounding the team, and there's no question that the environment was absolutely terrible in both of his seasons here.

I also think your story is a little questionable given that Stallings publicly kicked Kithcart off the team at the very end of the season. Clearly he could've sat on that, as you suggest he did with Manigault.

 

[levance2]

HCKS was adamant that he didn't want to throw kids under the bus and that if any of his staff shared the details, he'd fire them.

Too bad he didn't demand that level of accountability for actually coaching and developing players...

 

[hoopsguy72]

Without any knowledge, I certainly can't refute your opinion here. I'll just say that poor attitudes don't develop in a vacuum. The head coach is responsible for the environment surrounding the team, and there's no question that the environment was absolutely terrible in both of his seasons here.

I also think your story is a little questionable given that Stallings publicly kicked Kithcart off the team at the very end of the season. Clearly he could've sat on that, as you suggest he did with Manigault.

I understand your skepticism, but I'm not going to "prove it" to anyone. Corey Manigault was, IMO, more deserving of being shown the door than Kithcart. I'll limit the conjecture here by saying he didn't hurt or assault anyone, either teammates or co-eds. I'm not going to elaborate any more than that. Believe me or not, doesn't really matter to me. I'll sleep fine tonight.

But HCKS got this one right, and that will be true even if Manigault averages a 30 spot this year.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I understand your skepticism, but I'm not going to "prove it" to anyone. Corey Manigault was, IMO, more deserving of being shown the door than Kithcart. I'll limit the conjecture here by saying he didn't hurt or assault anyone, either teammates or co-eds. I'm not going to elaborate any more than that. Believe me or not, doesn't really matter to me. I'll sleep fine tonight.

But HCKS got this one right, and that will be true even if Manigault averages a 30 spot this year.

Upper deckers
Which he renamed A “Barnes “

 

[DT_PITT]

For those speculating, I'm just going to say this: Stallings HAD to show Manigault the door. He couldn't NOT do it. Stallings has taken a lot of heat on these boards, and that heat is understandable and, in many ways, fair. But one thing I've always admired about the guy is that he's been unwilling to torpedo players' careers to save his own skin (I'm not talking about the occasional, "This guy sucked rant in a post-game press conference). If people knew some of the things going on in the program with some of the Dixon holdovers, they'd have applauded HCKS and his decisions—because they were merited.

And one of the things that always bothered me about media hacks like Meyer is that they never bothered to dig for the real story and just accepted the narrative that started with the initial press conference, which was that HCKS was a has-been, know-nothing who was torpedo'ing the program just because he could. Man, was that not the case. ... I cannot, and will not, go into particulars, but I'll just say if I'd been HCKS, I'd have not only shown Manigault the door, I'd have publicly eviscerated him on his way out. He's lucky to be on scholarship anywhere.

P.S. And yes, even with Thompson coming, Manigault had to go. I don't believe Thompson's change of heart had anything to do with Corey being sent packing, either. But if keeping Manigault was the price of getting Thompson, it was too high a price to pay.

I never got the exact story, but I understand that Manigault and Stallings clashed from the very first day.

 

[Pittx9]

I understand your skepticism, but I'm not going to "prove it" to anyone. Corey Manigault was, IMO, more deserving of being shown the door than Kithcart. I'll limit the conjecture here by saying he didn't hurt or assault anyone, either teammates or co-eds. I'm not going to elaborate any more than that. Believe me or not, doesn't really matter to me. I'll sleep fine tonight.

But HCKS got this one right, and that will be true even if Manigault averages a 30 spot this year.

I’ll take your word for it, I’m just curious... if it was that bad why did they make it sound like manigault was just leaving as many kids during their college career do, yet kithcart they just came out and said he was being dismissed as the season was nearing it’s end?

 

[lilspainishflea]

Was watching the Sixers-Magic game last night and saw Khem Birch gets about 8 mins per game for Orlando. Didn't notice him on the floor during the game though.

 

[buckage]

I wish I could. Really, I do. I literally asked someone at the time, "Why the hell won't HCKS explain this? He needs to save his own skin." And I was specifically told that HCKS was adamant that he didn't want to throw kids under the bus and that if any of his staff shared the details, he'd fire them. HCKS wanted some of these players to have a chance to grow up and play the game, just not at Pitt.

I wish I could share what I know, but if I do, I risk burning one of my sources. And I'm not willing to do that just so you won't call BS.

If you want to equate me to Meyer, be my guest. But bear in mind, I pay $9.99/month to share what I know. Meyer gets paid to share what he knows. Big difference.

So you like attention without accountability...got it.

 

[joeydavid]

You were probably asking the wrong question. What you should have asked is why Kevin Stallings was so willing to throw every other player under the bus but not Manigault?

Stallings had no issues throwing every other Jamie Dixon recruit under the bus in a public forum on a weekly basis.

I wish I could. Really, I do. I literally asked someone at the time, "Why the hell won't HCKS explain this? He needs to save his own skin." And I was specifically told that HCKS was adamant that he didn't want to throw kids under the bus and that if any of his staff shared the details, he'd fire them. HCKS wanted some of these players to have a chance to grow up and play the game, just not at Pitt.

I wish I could share what I know, but if I do, I risk burning one of my sources. And I'm not willing to do that just so you won't call BS.

If you want to equate me to Meyer, be my guest. But bear in mind, I pay $9.99/month to share what I know. Meyer gets paid to share what he knows. Big difference.

 

[Black Panther]

Hard to say because CJ and Luther are probably significantly better and more experienced than what we have, but the other three aren’t likely much better if any.

The sad part is, Johnson and Luther could still be on the current team.But it wasn't to be.But moving along with younger players will be better in the long run.

 

[Thee Jackie Treehorn]

The sad part is, Johnson and Luther could still be on the current team.But it wasn't to be.But moving along with younger players will be better in the long run.

People said that last year, that we were better off longterm without Cam Johnson on the roster, that the younger guys would develop better without him logging minutes. I disagreed then and I disagree now. And Luther would have been a productive member of this year's team. If, of course, he could stay healthy and on the court.

 

[H2P 2003]

I didn't post it for the purpose of rehashing anything, nor to claim Manigault proved to be any sort of talent. I just think, for better or worse, we jettisoned many players in a short period of time, and it's genuinely amusing to find out whether those brief stints were or were not representative of how guys might develop. Sometimes you have a guy like Gary McGhee who totally revolutionizes himself, and other times you have Malcolm Gilbert.

Oh I’m not calling you out. Usually these posts are only made to bash former players or coaches, and honestly if manigault turns into a productive player there are several people who deserve to have it rubbed in their face.

That said, I’m ready to move in from stallings/Dixon and the players that moved on...though stallings does deserve all the criticism in the world.

 

[H2P 2003]

People said that last year, that we were better off longterm without Cam Johnson on the roster, that the younger guys would develop better without him logging minutes. I disagreed then and I disagree now. And Luther would have been a productive member of this year's team. If, of course, he could stay healthy and on the court.

If CJ and Luther were on this team, I’d be saying they could be a borderline NIT Team in the 7 ACC wins category.

 

[Black Panther]

I'd take them back in a heartbeat.And they would improve this team without a doubt.But they apparently didn't want to be at Pitt anymore.So you got to go with what you have.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

The last few seasons for Pitt Bb have been unbearable for everyone involved and that includes coaches , players and fans . I'm sure there's a lot of behind the scene issues we as fans just aren't privy too.
No one can blame any of the players wanting to get out of the program and no sane coach drives off useful players without cause . Cam and RL would've been great additions , but for the rest of them ....
Pitt Bb in the hands of JC is in better shape for the long term than with either of the previous coaches .

 

[DT_PITT]

People said that last year, that we were better off longterm without Cam Johnson on the roster, that the younger guys would develop better without him logging minutes. I disagreed then and I disagree now. And Luther would have been a productive member of this year's team. If, of course, he could stay healthy and on the court.

I agree as well, with one caveat.
If players don’t want to be here, we are better off without them. Still, I understand your point assumes they would want to be here.