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Pitt women’s BB - ouch…

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MajorMajors

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Sep 29, 2002
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Pitt women lost big to Duke today. No surprise but here’s Pitt’s scoring line by quarter: 9-6-6-10. That’s kind of embarrassing.
Faye scored 17 of Pitt’s 31 points. Johnson shot 1 for 14.
Pitt is 0-3 in the ACC. The bad news is there are 15 games remaining. Can they win one?
 
Duke made a three with 3:46 left in the 2nd quarter to go ahead 32-12. If they didn't score another point over the last 23:46 of the game they still would have won.

They'll probably win one or two. The best chances are the home games against BC and Virginia. And they'll have a chance to win the home games against SMU, Virginia Tech and Clemson and the road game with Wake Forest. I mean don't get me wrong, any one particular game would be an upset, but none of those would be a huge upset like say, beating North Carolina would be.

FWIW, Torvik has women's basketball ratings just like his men's ratings, and right now he is predicting that we will go 2-16 in conference.
 
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I was disaointed in yesterday's performance. Of course I didn't
expect a win and playing a ranked Duke team and losing by 38,
shows the enormous difference in talent. The other ranked teams
we played, WVU and GT resulted in losses of 28 and 38 pts. We
knew what the ACC would be like this year. However when you
have an A/TO ratio of 6/29, it's downright scary. I probably annoy
some posters with citing this stat game after game, but it's
revealing. The talent differential is obvious, but some things
should/could be improved. Faye got her 17 pts, but 4 rebounds??
And 5 TO's?? Those #'rs repeat game after game, Marley is starting
to show (finally) some shotmaking improvement lately but still
5TO's. Physicality keeps her on the floor, 5 rebounds and 3 steals.
Malcolm 21 minutes and 0 pts....That simply cannot happen.

The last few games, I saw some better overall bball out of them. I
even posted that they at least showed they had a clue as to what
they were coached to do. Not so yesterday. I realize Duke's D was
overwhelming, but except for this game, I still believe there's been
some improvement. A win somehow in our remaing ACC games
with our talent level? I think it's remotely possible and would love
to see it. These young women do work hard and appear to be
good team mates.
 
They are not worth watching in ACC play until they recruit a drastically better group of players. Pitt is a middle of the road mid-level squad playing in an extremely tough and talent rich P5 conference.
 
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DC_Area_Panther said:
They are not worth watching in ACC play until they recruit a drastically better group of players. Pitt is a middle of the road mid-level squad playing in an extremely tough and talent rich P5 conference.
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I'm sorry, but if you watched them yesterday, inept comes to mind. I will not bash any individual players and hate using that word; but when it takes more than thirty minutes for the score to exceed turnovers, many missed layups, so many more bricks or wild shots that have no chance of going in, what else can you conclude? Duke is good, but for God's sake, they are not a juggernaut.

I've said it before; if Suzie could not resurrect the program, I don't know who can. Not the last guy and certainly not this one. God bless the three or four on the forum who regularly follow the lady panthers.
 
Seneca_Valley said:
I'm sorry, but if you watched them yesterday, inept comes to mind. I will not bash any individual players and hate using that word; but when it takes more than thirty minutes for the score to exceed turnovers, many missed layups, so many more bricks or wild shots that have no chance of going in, what else can you conclude? Duke is good, but for God's sake, they are not a juggernaut.

I've said it before; if Suzie could not resurrect the program, I don't know who can. Not the last guy and certainly not this one. God bless the three or four on the forum who regularly follow the lady panthers.
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I certainly can't argue with anything you said. I can see why you'd say "inept."
As for "resurrecting" the program, I believe it can be done. First and foremost,
the level of recruits must improve drastically if we're going to compete in the
ACC. Nothing new here, a number of us having been posting that for years.
As for this coach, I do think he had a few semi decent recruits coming this year.
A last minute change of mind, a key injury to their best player and it's back to
square one again. I've been saying for several years we're A-10 talent level, and
mid level of that conference at best. What is upsetting is yesterday was a step
back IMO. Duke is very good, but so are a number of teams in this confence.
Not being able to compete any better than what we saw yesterday is bad...REAL bad.
 
Chescat1 said:
I certainly can't argue with anything you said. I can see why you'd say "inept."
As for "resurrecting" the program, I believe it can be done. First and foremost,
the level of recruits must improve drastically if we're going to compete in the
ACC. Nothing new here, a number of us having been posting that for years.
As for this coach, I do think he had a few semi decent recruits coming this year.
A last minute change of mind, a key injury to their best player and it's back to
square one again. I've been saying for several years we're A-10 talent level, and
mid level of that conference at best. What is upsetting is yesterday was a step
back IMO. Duke is very good, but so are a number of teams in this confence.
Not being able to compete any better than what we saw yesterday is bad...REAL bad.
Click to expand...
Do you honestly think Verdi can turn things around before he runs out of rope? I don't. Knowing our AD dept, one more year before he gets the hook is my guess. I hate to be negative, but it is hard for me to believe he can perform a miracle anytime soon.
 
Chescat1 said:
I certainly can't argue with anything you said. I can see why you'd say "inept."
As for "resurrecting" the program, I believe it can be done. First and foremost,
the level of recruits must improve drastically if we're going to compete in the
ACC. Nothing new here, a number of us having been posting that for years.
As for this coach, I do think he had a few semi decent recruits coming this year.
A last minute change of mind, a key injury to their best player and it's back to
square one again. I've been saying for several years we're A-10 talent level, and
mid level of that conference at best. What is upsetting is yesterday was a step
back IMO. Duke is very good, but so are a number of teams in this confence.
Not being able to compete any better than what we saw yesterday is bad...REAL bad.
Click to expand...
I was also a bit encouraged by the recruits we have coming in - I hope they stick with the program. I was not encouraged by the transfers we got, but Faye has been good.

I guess you have to wonder why anyone would transfer to this program given the results of the last 10 years…. Though if we could have teamed Liatu King with Faye, this team would be much better.
 
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Last three times Pitt women were good:

Agnus Berenato's two Sweet 16 trips (1, 2) and the team (3) with Monica Wignot (may she rest in peace) playing the post and the All American point guard, Brianna Kiesel, -- a team good at the two most important positions (1 & 5).

So, it has been done. Why not again? Much better recruiting is clearly the key. NIL money?
 
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Seneca_Valley said:
Do you honestly think Verdi can turn things around before he runs out of rope? I don't. Knowing our AD dept, one more year before he gets the hook is my guess. I hate to be negative, but it is hard for me to believe he can perform a miracle anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Honestly? It's hard to tell at this point. I give him a pass last year given
what he inherited, all those who left before he arrived, and his little to
no time to recruit since he was hired so late. As for this year he had a
few tramsfers who would have played but either injuy or not showing
up on campus, that hurt us. Losing Jenkins, IMO their best player made a
bad situation even worse.

I. I'd like to see what he could do with better talent.
2. I'll give him the opportunity to try and bring in some ACC level talent. The
question is....Can he do it? And how long should he be given?
3. As for what the team is actually doing on the floor, they IMO showed some
improvement the last few games EXCEPT for yesterday. That performance
was a reflection on him as much as his players.
4. Despite the losses, I've seen a little improvement in some players. Marley for
instance is physically all over the floor, and has minimally improved her shot.
5. Malcolm...just the opposite here. She's regressed, and isn't effectively used IMO.
This definitely an indictment of his coaching abilities IMO.
 
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Suzie certainly had the credentials - but something was wrong internally when Pitt’s best players would transfer out. My impression was that Susie wasn’t so good at team-building…
 
We should've hired Carolyn McCombs. She was on staff here with Agnus on the sweet 16 team. I think Verdi gets another year to right the ship. There is no doubt Pitt womens basketball can be successful.
Suzie and her sister shouldn't of argued with parents during games. SMH H2P
 
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Seneca_Valley said:
Wow, did this thread turn stupid. Only in your bizarro world would anyone think Suzie is not a good coach.
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Only someone who didn't sit there for years watching her teams make the same stupid fundamental errors over and over and over again could think that she's a good coach.

But hey, I could be wrong. Obviously she got hired by some other college after Pitt and is probably doing a bang up job there. Remind us all again, which college did she go to after Pitt? And which other schools offered her a job but she turned them down because they didn't meet her high standards?
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
Only someone who didn't sit there for years watching her teams make the same stupid fundamental errors over and over and over again could think that she's a good coach.

But hey, I could be wrong. Obviously, she got hired by some other college after Pitt and is probably doing a bang up job there. Remind us all again, which college did she go to after Pitt? And which other schools offered her a job but she turned them down because they didn't meet her high standards?
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Keep digging Joe; you are wrong.

Family is important to her and the primary reason (IMO) she is out of coaching. By choice and not because she can't find a job. No coincidence that most of her career (all but three years) was spent coaching local jobs. A ridiculous take on your part by the way.

I suggest you reread her Wiki page because you must have forgotten how much of a home run hire she was. The only blemish on her record is failing to resurrect the corpse that is Pitt WBB. Which again was the basis of my post. And if the lack of fundamentals cause you heartburn, I'm wondering how you are enjoying the current cast.

I don't know what the problems are with the program but it is more than coaching. Maybe the water perhaps.
I'm done with this thread so believe what you want. But I suspect your opinion is shared by only a few; if any.
 
Seneca_Valley said:
I suggest you reread her Wiki page because you must have forgotten how much of a home run hire she was.
Click to expand...


Everyone (or at least almost everyone) agrees that she was a home run hire.

And then she got here and started recruiting and coaching here. And she was in over her head. The team her last season was still making the same stupid fundamental mistakes that her team did her first year here.

And hey, that happens sometimes when you step up in level. But it ought to tell you something that Dan Burt has essentially been as successful as McConnell Serio was at Duquesne (.607 in conference winning percentage versus .610 in conference winning percentage), and no one particularly thinks that Dan Burt is anything special as a coach.

I suggest when you are rereading her Wiki page you look and see what her winning percentage was at Pitt, and where things were headed. If for no other reason than at this point you can't really go back and watch and see how bad those teams were for yourself.
 
Pitt had a chance to beat Louisville tonight - until they only score 7 points in the 3rd quarter. Tough to win games when you score less than 60 points.

I listened to Coach Verdi after the game. He has caught a very bad case of the “you knows” — not a good sign.
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
Everyone (or at least almost everyone) agrees that she was a home run hire.

And then she got here and started recruiting and coaching here. And she was in over her head. The team her last season was still making the same stupid fundamental mistakes that her team did her first year here.

And hey, that happens sometimes when you step up in level. But it ought to tell you something that Dan Burt has essentially been as successful as McConnell Serio was at Duquesne (.607 in conference winning percentage versus .610 in conference winning percentage), and no one particularly thinks that Dan Burt is anything special as a coach.

I suggest when you are rereading her Wiki page you look and see what her winning percentage was at Pitt, and where things were headed. If for no other reason than at this point you can't really go back and watch and see how bad those teams were for yourself.
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My opinion of it was that Susie was the obvious, easy, no-effort-put-into-it hire for Pitt. Not a home run hire. Her coaching resume wasn't as good as Agnus' when she was hired. Susie never won anything at Duquesne, never finished higher than 3rd in the A10, which happened only once, and never made the NCAAs there. Whether she was a good coach or not is relative. I'd say she was average, at best. I honestly didn't love the hire when it was made, although I understood hiring the hometown girl and hoped for the best.
 
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CrazyPaco said:
She was the obvious, easy, no effort put into it hire for Pitt. Not a home run hire. Her coaching resume wasn't as good as when Agnus' when she was hired. Susie never won anything at Duquesne, never finished higher than 3rd in the A10, which happened only once, and never made the NCAAs there. Whether she was a good coach or not is relative. I'd say she was average, at best. I honestly didn't love the hire when it was made, although I understood hiring the hometown girl and hoped for the best.
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Yeah, you're the reason why I put (or at least almost everyone) in that sentence.

But regardless of what you thought of the hire when they made it, to still be defending her as a good coach shows that one either wasn't watching the team play, or has some agenda other than what is best for Pitt women's basketball. Because she was absolutely a failure here. No question about it, a failure.
 
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Joe the Panther Fan said:
Yeah, you're the reason why I put (or at least almost everyone) in that sentence.

But regardless of what you thought of the hire when they made it, to still be defending her as a good coach shows that one either wasn't watching the team play, or has some agenda other than what is best for Pitt women's basketball. Because she was absolutely a failure here. No question about it, a failure.
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I wanted to walk away from this thread, but not after you misrepresented what I said. Read slowly Joe because you are seriously lacking in reading comprehension. In this (and other threads on the subject), I have noted that Suzie failed at Pitt. However, you can still be a good coach and not succeed at a particular stop in your career. It is not binary, happens all the time, and to some considered great. That does not diminish what she did before or after the Pitt gig. She had success coaching at every level from scholastic to the pros. And context matters. You and Paco drone on at her less-than-stellar record at Duquesne, but prior to her, Duquesne never won more than 20 games and went anywhere post-season. How many coaching awards do you need to collect before concluding she knows what she is doing? Add this to the fact she is from and well-known in the area, and hopefully would have improved local recruiting. Her intangibles and resume are what made her a "home run hire".

And the point I was trying to make is that this program has been so bad for so long, maybe there is more to it than "less than average coaching". I'm not surprised Agnus was brought up but even with early success, the program collapsed around her at the end, producing back-to-back winless conference records. Suzie, by the way, turned it around in two years before it also collapsed around her.

Full disclosure: My last name is not Serio and I am not a Nitter. Done posting on this no matter your reply Joe so swing away. Promise.
 
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I just watched Pitt score **one ** basket in a quarter in person, and they trail SMU 32-7, so there’s that going for Verdi.
 
So I usually go to some women’s games but hadn’t gotten there this season. Since I had no conflicts today, and I thought they had a chance against SMU, I went to the game. So I was one of maybe 400 people who saw what happened.

At halftime, I considered leaving but decided I’d watch the 3rd quarter. Which turned out to be the best quarter of BB I’ve ever seen the Pitt women play. So Pitt scores 28 points in the 3rd, a monumental total for them, but more importantly, SMU scores ZERO points.

So SMU outscored Pitt 49-18 in the first half and then Pitt outscores SMU 54-10 in the second half. Amazing stuff.

At the beginning of the game it took Pitt 8 minutes before they scored from the floor. The 2nd quarter required a late bucket to get to 11 points. I was feeling sorry for the Coach and the players. It was embarrassing being down 49-18 at the half. You wondered if SMU would score 100.

Then the teams switched uniforms at the half, or so it seemed. In the 3rd quarter, Pitt couldn’t miss; SMU couldn’t hit anything. Miles played good defense on the SMU player who had hit several open 3s in the first half - that seemed to be the main difference, along with good rebounding by Faye and others. That SMU player had 21 points at the half and ended up with 23. And of course Marley caught fire from the floor and Pitt did a much better job of getting Faye the ball underneath with some room to work. Johnson made buckets as well.

Glad to see Pitt get such an improbable win.
 
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mike10003 said:
I cannot wait to see what Joe and Chescat think of this game. The most improbable basketball victory I have ever seen live.
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As I sat there all I could think of was the great Jack Buck calling the World Series when Kurt Gibson hit that game winning home run.

I do not believe what I just saw.

I do not believe what I just saw.

I'm getting pretty old. I have been actually in attendance at somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,000 professional and college sporting events. I have never in my life witnessed anything like that. The only games that I can think of that were in the same vein that I watched on television were the Pitt - Houston football bowl game that we completely blew in the last half of the fourth quarter, although that happened much more quickly over much less time, and the one that maybe is a better comparison, the Buffalo Bills - Houston Oilers playoff game when the Oilers led 35-3 early in the 3rd quarter after a pick six, and the switch flipped and the Bills ended up winning 41-38 in overtime.

In short, I do not believe what I just saw.

Just some numbers to show how ridiculous it was.

SMU went 10-20 from the floor in the 1st quarter. They actually only made three shots in the 2nd (all threes), but they did go 8-8 from the line, so it kind of hid what what already happening to their offense. After the 1st quarter SMU went 5-42 from the field. 3-14, then 0-13, then 2-15. And they only went 4-10 from the line, so there was no hiding all the misses by making foul shots.

OTOH, Pitt went 1-12 in the 1st, and then 21-43 after that. 16-27 in the 2nd half, including 7-13 from three. And after only going 9-17 from the line in the first three, we went 11-13 in the 4th.

And how about the rebounding numbers. In the first half, SMU missed 18 shots and got 9 offensive rebounds, while we missed 22 shots and only got 3 offensive rebounds. They were dominating the glass. And then in the second half, SMU missed 30 shots and only got 5 offensive rebounds, while we missed 17 shots and got 7 offensive rebounds. Somehow, the domination completely flipped there too.

I was there, I saw it happen, and yet I still have no idea how it happened.
 
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In looking at the box score, SMU actually only made 3 two pointers all game long, and all three were in the 1st quarter. They were 3-9 on twos in the 1st, which actually isn't any good, and then the rest of the game they went 0-20 on twos. 3-29 on twos for the game.

7-11 on threes in the 1st, and then when they stopped falling, 5-22 the rest of the game.
 
TheSpecialSauce said:
The biggest comeback in D1 history. I haven’t watched much Pitt women’s basketball, but you can tell Verdi is fully vested based on his reaction.
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When the team came out after halftime for the warmups, he actually went out on the court and got in the middle of the layup line and was slapping hands and talking to all the players as they came by. And I thought, I've never seen him do anything like that before, he's got to be just trying to keep everyone's head in the game so this doesn't get epically bad.

Little did I know.

And then at the end, he let out a big yell as the clock ran out. Another thing I've never seen him do.
 
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