Pitt's attendance - season by season, since 2001
- Thread starter UPitt '89
- Start date
You are largely correct. The stadium or lack of one is not what drives fans to attend or stay home. That said, put 35,000 in Heinz versus Pitt Stadium, and you begin to see just the tip of the ice berg problem. Considering the 2015 season tickets were largely sold when Barnes took over...I say give this new team a little time to see what they can do. Everyone, and I mean everyone, understands that playing college football in an off campus NFL venue is not ideal. But it is now the reality that Pitt must deal with. Hail to Pitt!
They also built a nice stadium that is "right-sized" for the Pirate crowds and the sport. Sure, winning Pitt football will draw more fans--it always has through history. But regardless of what you say, playing in an NFL venue off campus is far from the ideal situation. There really is NO example of a college team that has played off campus in an NFL venue that has been long term successful--ZERO. Hail to Pitt!
When did the Pirates average 15k per year that saw an increase to 32k five years later?
in 2010 they were at 19k and last year they 30.8k. kind of close, well not really but still quite an increase to go from 28th to 15th.
The Pirates have a larger market base than Pitt. Their prospective customers are pretty much everybody within 50 miles. Pitt's customers are alums and football fans.
Example: Some 25 year old guy who went to Slippery Rock is not taking his 24 year old girlfriend who went to IUP on a date to Pitt/Virginia. Pirates games are date nights and guys' night out nights.
Pitt is a tough sell for a guy's night crowd. For 1, the games are almost never at night and half the guys didnt go to Pitt and dont want to do that.
Pitt has a very small market base to sell to which is one reason we need a 45K seat stadium.
Example: Some 25 year old guy who went to Slippery Rock is not taking his 24 year old girlfriend who went to IUP on a date to Pitt/Virginia. Pirates games are date nights and guys' night out nights.
Pitt is a tough sell for a guy's night crowd. For 1, the games are almost never at night and half the guys didnt go to Pitt and dont want to do that.
Pitt has a very small market base to sell to which is one reason we need a 45K seat stadium.
Bingo. This will always be an issue as long as we are playing in Heinz Field. OR....they configure it differently for Pitt (tarps) to draw down capacity.
We need a right sized stadium. You have a 50,000 seat stadium on campus and all of a sudden those 45K crowds are great.
And this is true. Conversely, if you didn't have the Pro Teams here, it would be a destination. I lived in Morgantown, and a WVU game was a social event, an outing that people circle almost a year in advance. I am talking practically everyone.
The problem isn't really the amount of attendance. It's that Heinz Field is simply too big and we don't have a fan base to fill the stadium--and likely never will.
If we played in a right sized stadium of around 50,000 (see University of Minnesota for example), then an average of 40,000 in attendance is fine. Averaging 40,000 in Heinz Field means the stadium is half empty for most games. I don't blame the current administration and think they are totally on the right track and doing everything they can. They are saddled with this situation. But I don't think we can ever hope to fill that stadium.
It looks terrible on TV and our team has no home field advantage. There's no atmosphere. I do think the fans that attend do cheer loudly, support the team, and do their best. But the size and layout of the stadium is not helpful to their efforts.
As for the students, I thought the turnout on Saturday was poor. I think many of them exit early to go and stand in lines to catch buses to return to Oakland--which further illustrates the problem of playing in someone else's stadium off campus.
Pitt needs its own right-sized stadium that can provide a genuine home field advantage and enable Pitt to increase its donations and ticket sales through increased demand for fewer tickets. Heinz Field is not a long term solution.
If we played in a right sized stadium of around 50,000 (see University of Minnesota for example), then an average of 40,000 in attendance is fine. Averaging 40,000 in Heinz Field means the stadium is half empty for most games. I don't blame the current administration and think they are totally on the right track and doing everything they can. They are saddled with this situation. But I don't think we can ever hope to fill that stadium.
It looks terrible on TV and our team has no home field advantage. There's no atmosphere. I do think the fans that attend do cheer loudly, support the team, and do their best. But the size and layout of the stadium is not helpful to their efforts.
As for the students, I thought the turnout on Saturday was poor. I think many of them exit early to go and stand in lines to catch buses to return to Oakland--which further illustrates the problem of playing in someone else's stadium off campus.
Pitt needs its own right-sized stadium that can provide a genuine home field advantage and enable Pitt to increase its donations and ticket sales through increased demand for fewer tickets. Heinz Field is not a long term solution.
To be fair, they only averaged 22k in 1992 when they had a really good team before getting Sid Breamed to end the season.
Maybe if we WIN, and get better they won't stick us with the noon time slot every week. And we get prime time 6, 7 or 8 PM. Face it, Noon time slots are for games people care less about.
All these averages are pretty damn good, considering they are the SECOND LEVEL football team in a city of 300,000 people. Some of you just seem to care about "appearances', if we averaged 45000 in a 50000 seat stadium, is that somehow better than averaging 45000 in a 65000 seat stadium, just because it's looks better on TV?
On the negative side, if you have the so called "right size" stadium, 40000-50000 or whatever that is, if you do become nationally relevant, and have potential for the 55000-65000 crowds, then you won't have the space for it. Look at the biggest numbers, 2003, 2008, 2009, 2010, also coincides with the best years, in the hunt for conference titles and good bowl games. And approaching that this year with a good performance by the team.
We're 8-3 and the stadium wasn't close to half full for a 3:45 p.m. start last week. Do you really think we are going to consistently sell out 68,000 Heinz Field seats for games against Georgia Tech or Virginia or Syracuse? Even if we're undefeated?
Yes, winning will increase ticket sales--but certainly not enough to fill the stadium. We could be 10-1 right now and we're not going to have any kind of home field atmosphere in Heinz Field. After more than a decade playing there, I think that's become pretty evident. We played a nationally televised game against Cincinnati in a de facto Big East championship game at Heinz Field and didn't sell out! We were ranked in the top 15 at the time and Cincinnati was in the top 10.
We simply don't have the fan base to fill this stadium and our players (and the fans that do attend) are not treated to a home field, college atmosphere for games--because a prior administration decided to tear down our home and move us into a rented, pro stadium.
At this point, atmosphere and home field advantage are more important than the size of the stadium--particularly because we don't sell it out anyway! Pitt needs a 50,000 seat stadium where it can charge more for tickets (due to a better matching of supply and demand) and require donations for season tickets.
Yes, 45,000 in a 50,000 seat stadium is better than 45,000 in a 65,000 seat stadium! That's the whole point! It's better for fans--it's better for players to have a college and home field atmosphere--it's better for recruiting. Can you think of one school who has recently torn down its stadium and moved into a rented pro stadium? I can think of many who moved back on campus and into smaller stadiums. Why? Because atmosphere and demand for tickets matters more and schools would rather be in a right sized stadium for the atmosphere and for ticket demand.
Your point about demand for more tickets and bigger crowds in nationally relevant games only supports my point. Greater demand for tickets in a 50,000 seat stadium will enable Pitt to charge more money for those tickets and/or require donations. That's why you want--demand being greater than supply. Our season tickets are incredibly cheap right now because we have way too much supply--not to mention having to deal with many more opposing teams fans (like ND) than if we had our own stadium.
Finally, I'm not sure how many wins you think we need to get in order to be first level--but the team isn't going to go undefeated every year or win 3 titles in 4 years. No one does--not even FSU. If we can't get more than half of Heinz Field filled with an 8-3 team, then there's a bigger problem. And the problem is the stadium is a bad fit for Pitt.
like I said earlier....consistent undefeated/near undefeated teams will get you another 10,000 per game....folks act like Pitt has never been there before....
I don't know about that, in 2003, we had 66000 for the VT game, both teams where ranked, we where on ESPN Gameday. I was there, cold night, great game.
This year we are an unexpected, unranked 8-3, and people are still skeptical, if this team starts being a respected 8-3 and the late season games are for conference titles and big bowl games, the attendance will be bigger.
That's about all you can hope for, I wouldn't get my hopes up for a new stadium.
This year we are an unexpected, unranked 8-3, and people are still skeptical, if this team starts being a respected 8-3 and the late season games are for conference titles and big bowl games, the attendance will be bigger.
That's about all you can hope for, I wouldn't get my hopes up for a new stadium.
Pitt will never be the 1st level football team in Pittsburgh, the Steelers could be 6-10 and still garner more interest and support than a 10 win Pitt team, that's just how it is.
Exactly. So why are we playing in their stadium and trying to match their attendance?
Correct. Pitt can fill Heinz for a de facto conference championship game when the opponent is a short drive away.
He's talking about the ND game two weeks ago. Largest college football crowd in Pittsburgh history.
Sorry.... I meant largest crowd for a college game in Heinz Field history.
There's a lot of good stuff in this post and I'm in agreement with a good bit of what's been said already.
UPitt, with the attendance figures you listed, perhaps the % of stadium attendance capacity would be a truer indication of popularity. Also, you know the figures are badly inflated especially since Smiley was there as compared to Pitt Stadium days. PittLaw is right about that. The announced attendance for the Pitt-North Carolina game this year I believe was definitely inflated. Joe the Panther Fan pointed out that last Saturday's announced attendance wasn't close to being accurate as well.
Hail to Pitt is right, there are about 30-33k diehard Pitt fans and attendance should be better since college football has grown in popularity since the '70s.
Sonofabit and Ghost touched upon game day experience. Do alumni rekindle their nostalgia for their university and college experience going to the North Shore? More so than if they were seeing a game by revisiting campus weekends during the fall? You can't even see the Cathedral of Learning from the North Shore. It's a cold bright yellow stadium surrounded by empty lots with North Shore businesses and not those from Oakland and our college days. The game day experience would be better on campus, period. Perhaps that's why your most loyal Pitt fans are the older ones who remember going to games at Pitt Stadium.
As for the population of Pittsburgh and Pitt's fan base, I think one should consider the number of Pitt alumni and their family members within a two-hour drive of Pittsburgh, particularly Allegheny, Armstrong, Beaver, Butler, Fayette, Greene, Indiana, Washington and Westmoreland counties. All those fans are within driving distance IMO. For those who make the trip from a further distance, those are loyal and true Pitt fans. There are more than enough people in SW PA to support the program.
Pitt79, I find myself in agreement with you on most issues discussed here, but yes it does matter if you have 45,000 fans in a 50,000 seat stadium or a 65,000 seat stadium. If it's a 50K seat stadium, the stadium is 90% filled to capacity, that looks far better than one filled to 69% capacity. As for those opponents that you know will outdraw a 50,000 seat stadium, and you want that additional ticket revenue, then move the game to Heinz Field or whatever they'll be calling the Steelers new stadium in the future.
UPitt, with the attendance figures you listed, perhaps the % of stadium attendance capacity would be a truer indication of popularity. Also, you know the figures are badly inflated especially since Smiley was there as compared to Pitt Stadium days. PittLaw is right about that. The announced attendance for the Pitt-North Carolina game this year I believe was definitely inflated. Joe the Panther Fan pointed out that last Saturday's announced attendance wasn't close to being accurate as well.
Hail to Pitt is right, there are about 30-33k diehard Pitt fans and attendance should be better since college football has grown in popularity since the '70s.
Sonofabit and Ghost touched upon game day experience. Do alumni rekindle their nostalgia for their university and college experience going to the North Shore? More so than if they were seeing a game by revisiting campus weekends during the fall? You can't even see the Cathedral of Learning from the North Shore. It's a cold bright yellow stadium surrounded by empty lots with North Shore businesses and not those from Oakland and our college days. The game day experience would be better on campus, period. Perhaps that's why your most loyal Pitt fans are the older ones who remember going to games at Pitt Stadium.
As for the population of Pittsburgh and Pitt's fan base, I think one should consider the number of Pitt alumni and their family members within a two-hour drive of Pittsburgh, particularly Allegheny, Armstrong, Beaver, Butler, Fayette, Greene, Indiana, Washington and Westmoreland counties. All those fans are within driving distance IMO. For those who make the trip from a further distance, those are loyal and true Pitt fans. There are more than enough people in SW PA to support the program.
Pitt79, I find myself in agreement with you on most issues discussed here, but yes it does matter if you have 45,000 fans in a 50,000 seat stadium or a 65,000 seat stadium. If it's a 50K seat stadium, the stadium is 90% filled to capacity, that looks far better than one filled to 69% capacity. As for those opponents that you know will outdraw a 50,000 seat stadium, and you want that additional ticket revenue, then move the game to Heinz Field or whatever they'll be calling the Steelers new stadium in the future.
