Pitt's Talent Level and ACC

[Chescat]

Now that we've played several games in the ACC it's pretty clear that our talent level isn't as
great as some believe. Every team (except BC) seems to have forwards as good as ours. I like
Young and Artis, but let's not think they're way better than other forwards in this conference.
IMO Young is definitely one of the better ones, but when you see a guy like Blossomgame,
it's pretty clear that Artis is good... but just another forward in this league. We saw the NC ST
inside game literally dismantle us inside; Fla ST's big guys handled us, and this will undoubtedly
continue the rest of the season.
Despite the grad transfers at C, we are so weak in comparison to the rest of the league
it isn't funny. Clemson's Centers are not the elite of the ACC, but clearly far superior to our
three. (Yes I know, Luther hustles and hit a few outside J's last night, but he is NOT a true
C.... he's a forward playing out of position because we have no true center) . When Kent St.
has two Bigs outplay our centers, that is problematic to say the least.

However I did expect better performance from our guards. I've supported Robinson on here,
but as other posters have pointed out, his lack of athleticism, poor shooting, and slowness is
costing us big time. The Clemson guards ate his lunch last night. As for SG, we are getting
very little there.....Smith and Jones are not ACC level, and Wilson is raw. Hell, even BC had a
guard better than anyone we have (Carter...lit us up for 30+).

IMO a major upgrade in talent level is needed, and FAST. If Jamie can't get em here, he needs a
recruiter who can. Speaking of Jamie...Clemson is a very well coached team and
came ready to play.

 

[Pitt79]

We have to be allowed to take ANYBODY that ANY OTHER ACC team is willing to take! No "higher standards"... If a recruit meets NCAA minimum academic standards, we have to take them! Just like our competition does! Or else drop to the Ivy League.

 

[Chescat]

OK, so let me get this straight....Pitt has higher academic and recruiting standards than Duke,
UVA, UNC, Wake Forrest, and Georgia Tech?? Is that what you're saying?
Over the years those schools are the reason the ACC is academically considered the best athletic conference in the country. Adding ND,VaTech, Miami, Syracuse, Pitt,and BC have IMO, added to this reputation. Now, maybe a case can be made for Louisville, Clemson,and Fla St as schools that might fit your description. Is there any way you can substantiate what you're saying concerning recruits that are admitted to ACC schools, but not admitted to Pitt?

 

[JRPITT]

You might have a point about the talent level; however,coach also needs to recruit good players who take pride in stopping somebody! This team is hard to watch because they lack toughness and quit easily.

 

[Pitt79]

Now, maybe a case can be made for Louisville, Clemson,and Fla St as schools that might fit your description.

Just make sure that you're willing to take anybody that these schools are taking. We aren't Duke, we aren't going to get all the smart kids that can play. Honestly, who cares. Pitt has 30000 students (or so), having maybe 200 athletes with lesser academic numbers won't bring the average down if that's what you're worried about.

 

[Chescat]

You might have a point about the talent level; however,coach also needs to recruit good players who take pride in stopping somebody! This team is hard to watch because they lack toughness and quit easily.

I totally agree. It's even especially hard to watch for Pitt fans who were used to Pitt teams that routinely out-toughed the competition. I'm not as sure they're quitting as you are, but it does look as though they are. Not sure I've ever seen such terrible D as exhibited by Jeter. There's no reason IMO an athlete of that caliber cannot play better D. It's a matter of learning technique, hard work, and hustle. An athlete of Jeter's caliber should be able to get by on hustle alone on the defensive end.

 

[Chescat]

Just make sure that you're willing to take anybody that these schools are taking. We aren't Duke, we aren't going to get all the smart kids that can play. Honestly, who cares. Pitt has 30000 students (or so), having maybe 200 athletes with lesser academic numbers won't bring the average down if that's what you're worried about.

Ok, now that you explained it that way, I'll agree with your premise. The question I'd ask though is......are those athletes you are referencing actually being rejected by Pitt for academic purposes? Louisville is no academic bastion, but are you saying that Pitt wouldn't take their better players. We actually recruited several of them and lost out to Pitino. How about Cat Barber at NC ST? He owns us every time we play....we lost him due to academic reasons?
So....I agree with your premise, but not sure I agree with the actual recruiting results. Can you substantiate
any of it?

 

[Pitt79]

The question I'd ask though is......are those athletes you
are referencing actually being rejected by Pitt for academic purposes? Louisville is no academic bastion, but are you
saying that Pitt wouldn't take their better players. We actually recruited several of them and lost out to Pitino.
How about Cat Barber at NC ST? He owns us every time we play....we lost him due to academic reasons?
So....I agree with your premise, but not sure I agree with the actual recruiting results. Can you substantiate
any of it?

I'm not sure, but look at some of the teams we play, they have multiple athletic freaks, multiple 7 foot centers from Europe or Africa, and we get un-athletic transfers from Brown and Richmond? Cat Barber? I don't know for sure? All I know is that we haven't been getting athletes that match up lately. I wonder, how easy is it to get a guy from Russia or Liberia or some such place in academically, and it's been years since we've had a foreigner. I don't count Maia, because surely a guy who already graduated from Brown is academically good.

 

[Harve74]

.. it's been years since we've had a foreigner..

Glad to see you are retaining your 100% record for being totally wrong in every post.

Do the names Uchebo and Zanna (Nigeria) and Adams (New Zealand) mean ANYTHING to you? And Shaq Doorson, (Canary Islands) who was rejected by the NCAA originally, not us. Or for that matter, Birch (Canada). 5 guys since 2009.

 

[PITTLAW]

I'm not sure, but look at some of the teams we play, they have multiple athletic freaks, multiple 7 foot centers from Europe or Africa, and we get un-athletic transfers from Brown and Richmond? Cat Barber? I don't know for sure? All I know is that we haven't been getting athletes that match up lately. I wonder, how easy is it to get a guy from Russia or Liberia or some such place in academically, and it's been years since we've had a foreigner. I don't count Maia, because surely a guy who already graduated from Brown is academically good.

If you are a 7' guy and Pitino wants you and Dixon wants you...is it really a hard choice of where to sign if your goal is to play in the NBA? I do not think there is anything to your point about Pitt refusing men's basketball players because of academics--NONE. Pitt will take anyone that has the ability to make it through the clearing house, just look at Dante Taylor as exhibit 1. The problem has been that Dixon has been losing out on the players he has been recruiting--and not due to academics. Hail to Pitt!

 

[pittizit]

only good news is that Artis will be back as he'd be a fool to come out...as he'd end up in Egypt

 

[Pitt79]

Glad to see you are retaining your 100% record for being totally wrong in every post.

Do the names Uchebo and Zanna (Nigeria) and Adams (New Zealand) mean ANYTHING to you? And Shaq Doorson, (Canary Islands) who was rejected by the NCAA originally, not us. Or for that matter, Birch (Canada). 5 guys since 2009.

I thought those guys played high school ball in the US? So maybe you are WRONG!

 

[Pitt79]

Yup, guess I WAS RIGHT and you are 100% wrong! EVERY ONE OF THEM played high school basketball in the USA.

 

[Pitt79]

If you are a 7' guy and Pitino wants you and Dixon wants you...is it really a hard choice of where to sign if your goal is to play in the NBA?

So maybe Dixon isn't that great. convincing NBA talent to come is more important than coaching up who does come.

 

[PITTLAW]

So maybe Dixon isn't that great. convincing NBA talent to come is more important than coaching up who does come.

Well he was given a 10 year extension deal...so for better or worse, he is going to be the coach at Pitt for quite a few years to come. Pitt is not the kind of school where you call a couple of alumni and they come up with the cash to buy out their underperforming, high priced coach--especially in the $15-20 million range. We have to hope Dixon is able to get the program back to where it was earlier in his tenure. His prior performance suggests he can do it, but as each year passes, more doubts among the faithful are gathering--and rightfully so. Hail to Pitt!

 

[Chescat]

All good posts, but it still comes back to talent. Jamie has proven he can coach. Of course his
coaching looks not as good now, lack of real talent when playing elite or very good teams tends
to make his coaching moves and strategy look bad by comparison.
BTW....all those suggesting Artis leaves early....puhleese be serious. Now that you're seeing
ACC teams, game in and game out, isn't it obvious that there are top level forwards as good
and better on just about every league team we've seen? He's good, very good in fact, but an elite
Div 1 forward? IMO if you watch some Big10 teams, SEC, ACC, etc etc., you will see many as
good and better throughout the country. Now Young is a different story...IMO he's closer to
upper level as a power forward than Artis is as a SF, but even with Young...there are many as
good and some better in the country...and yes, in the ACC as well.
Again, just my opinion.

 

[NTOP]

I'm not sure, but look at some of the teams we play, they have multiple athletic freaks, multiple 7 foot centers from Europe or Africa, and we get un-athletic transfers from Brown and Richmond? Cat Barber? I don't know for sure? All I know is that we haven't been getting athletes that match up lately. I wonder, how easy is it to get a guy from Russia or Liberia or some such place in academically, and it's been years since we've had a foreigner. I don't count Maia, because surely a guy who already graduated from Brown is academically good.

Years?? Uchebo last year, Zanna before that, Adams then, you need remedial geography....or a larger hard drive.

 

[NTOP]

Yup, guess I WAS RIGHT and you are 100% wrong! EVERY ONE OF THEM played high school basketball in the USA.

Nope....prep schools for Adams & Birch, at least. And that doesn't change the facts that they're from overseas. Try again.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

I'm not sure exactly if its talent, style or whatever, but I think cat is on to something. The ACC is seeming like more of a different animal than I thought.

 

[Harve74]

Yup, guess I WAS RIGHT and you are 100% wrong! EVERY ONE OF THEM played high school basketball in the USA.

Well, no Shaq Doorson didn' play high school here. And FWIW, Adams and Birch played prep school in New England, not exactly high school. Adams graduated from his high school in Kiwi-land first.

Almost all overseas kids who come to play college in the USA here are brought here first for a year or two of high school, so they qualify. And every one of them who came here from and are citizens of other countries ARE foreigners who signed and/or played at Pitt

So, as always, you continue to be wrong. You really can't add an extra qualifier about playing high school ball here after you've been shown to be wrong to try to APPEAR right.

Try that next time you place a bet at the track or at Vegas.

 

[Pitt79]

Years?? Uchebo last year, Zanna before that, Adams then, you need remedial geography....or a larger hard drive.

They all went to high school in the USA

 

[Pitt79]

Shaq Doorson never played for Pitt.

 

[NTOP]

They all went to high school in the USA

They did NOT. Keep swinging. You're Dave Kingman w/o the homers. Or Charlie Brown kicking a football.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

They all went to high school in the USA

Wrong.
Move on.

 

[Pitt79]

They did NOT. Keep swinging. You're Dave Kingman w/o the homers. Or Charlie Brown kicking a football.

Yes they did, I Googled every single one of them, they all played high school basketball in the USA. Try Google sometimes, even the Pitt official athletic site, names the US high schools they played at.

 

[DT_PITT]

Well he was given a 10 year extension deal...so for better or worse, he is going to be the coach at Pitt for quite a few years to come. Pitt is not the kind of school where you call a couple of alumni and they come up with the cash to buy out their underperforming, high priced coach--especially in the $15-20 million range. We have to hope Dixon is able to get the program back to where it was earlier in his tenure. His prior performance suggests he can do it, but as each year passes, more doubts among the faithful are gathering--and rightfully so. Hail to Pitt!

Agree completely.

 

[DT_PITT]

If you are a 7' guy and Pitino wants you and Dixon wants you...is it really a hard choice of where to sign if your goal is to play in the NBA? I do not think there is anything to your point about Pitt refusing men's basketball players because of academics--NONE. Pitt will take anyone that has the ability to make it through the clearing house, just look at Dante Taylor as exhibit 1. The problem has been that Dixon has been losing out on the players he has been recruiting--and not due to academics. Hail to Pitt!

A comment on your point from my understanding. First, our track record is to back off guys who look like they won't make it through the clearinghouse, perhaps a little earlier than others. However, this isn't always the case, and Detrick Mostella is an example that DOES make your point.

Nonetheless, it's also my understanding the Dixon discusses "academics" and going to class, perhaps somewhat more than may be discussed in other recruiting visits to other schools. But this really actually is a "recruiting issue" (ie: sales pitch) and not an academics issue.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

There isn't as large a talent gap as many in this thread suppose--EXCEPT at the 5. We would be just fine with a Gary McGhee clone down low. Just need a low post guy who is a defensive rebound vacuum and who can get offensive putbacks when our other guys miss. Every ACC opponent with a decent ACC big just plays us tight on the perimeter and doesn't worry about our inside game because it is no threat. That makes the whole team look bad. Better guard play would help but it doesn't solve the bigger problem of the weak inside game.

 

[Harve74]

Shaq Doorson never played for Pitt.

Shaq Doorson signed with Pitt, but was released from his scholarhip here when the NCAA originally declared him ineligible, due to having played in professional games in the Netherlands.

Steve Adams, a New Zealand citizen, graduated from high school in New Zealand and after he had signed with Pitt, played a semester in prep school at Notre Dame Prep to be certain of eligibility at Pitt.

Khem Birch, a Canadian native, played prep school ball at Winchendon Prep, again not exactly a high school.

You originally said, why doesn't Pitt get foreign players like everyone else? .. When was the last time we had a foreign player?

When you were shown to know nothing about your own topic, again, you created a different condition, involving foreigner having played at a US high school presumably to confuse the situation and make yourself look less like an uninformed fool who didn't know Pitt had several scholarship players from foreign countries in the past few years. .

The problem is, you didn't get THAT right either - as has been detailed by several people in different threads.

And, FWIW, Pitt follows the same academic admission standards for their major sports scholarship athletes as the rest of the ACC and most of Division 1 does. They do NOT have higher admission standards as you have been saying the past week or so. So, you are wrong again.

 

[Piranha]

Right now at this moment - we have 2 good ACC players and 2 average ACC players. Everybody else is below average. I would rank our talent somewhere between 10-14 in the league.