I am not a recruiting follower. Is the onset of PWOs due to all grant in aids being handed out and now guys who think they can play at this level are rolling the dice?
Or is there another reason?
Or is there another reason?
PWO's. Why the surge?
- Thread starter Saboteur
- Start date
I was just thinking of starting a thread on PWOs. We have had limited PWOs over the years but this year is different by the shear #. Some schools have great PWO programs and recruits that fall under the radar or feel they can play up to a P5 school gravitate to these schools knowing their reputation is open to PWO. Tex A&M comes to mind and I am sure there are others that excel at this.
This is from the ncaa site:
Preferred walk-on offer
Not all offers come with a monetary reward. Sometimes, the reward is simply a spot on the roster. A preferred walk-on offer means the coach would like you on the team but cannot (or won’t) offer any financial assistance at least for the first year. Preferred walk-ons can earn a scholarship going into their second season, but nothing is guaranteed. Some student-athletes will turn down scholarship offers at smaller schools to play for a bigger program as a preferred walk-on.
This is from the ncaa site:
Preferred walk-on offer
Not all offers come with a monetary reward. Sometimes, the reward is simply a spot on the roster. A preferred walk-on offer means the coach would like you on the team but cannot (or won’t) offer any financial assistance at least for the first year. Preferred walk-ons can earn a scholarship going into their second season, but nothing is guaranteed. Some student-athletes will turn down scholarship offers at smaller schools to play for a bigger program as a preferred walk-on.
I would imagine sometimes it’s academics with the combination of continuing to be part of a team. If the football somehow works out and they get some run, great. But academics comes 1st.
I'd bet there's possibly a future promise in some instances. I think the punter from Belle Vernon was told he'd get a scholarship at some point down the line but it's probably based on performance, too.
The uptick in PWO's is probably a credit to the recruiting. A couple of years ago, some of these kids would have gotten scholarships right out of the gate. Now, you have kids willing to give up a scholarship or grants at a lower level to come to Pitt and give it a shot. That has to be a good thing.
I'll add an opinion. I don't understand why any kid would want to be a PWO. I'd always nudge a kid towards going somewhere they can play. If you're not going pro, go somewhere you'll enjoy playing.
That being said, I know of a family that are big donors to a P5 school. The grandson wanted to play there but was horribly undersized for P5. I think he was good enough to play FCS but size wise, he probably belonged in D2 to play every down. In that case, the family bought the kids way onto the roster. I think he did end up playing some special teams. But that's what he wanted and that's okay, too.
That being said, I know of a family that are big donors to a P5 school. The grandson wanted to play there but was horribly undersized for P5. I think he was good enough to play FCS but size wise, he probably belonged in D2 to play every down. In that case, the family bought the kids way onto the roster. I think he did end up playing some special teams. But that's what he wanted and that's okay, too.
I agree. It seems like getting more bites at the apple. Either the PWO looks great and gets a scholarship or doesn't pan out and is told there's no room and no scholarship is wasted on an unproductive player.
We shouldn't lie but we should also make it clear to all PWOs that scholarships are dependent upon availability and the player's performance. Win-win for Pitt.
I think it's a little bit tricky just below the surface. You certainly don't want to get a reputation for promising too many kids that they can earn scholarships but I can't imagine a PWO walks in with any real expectations. Again, if you're going to bring in some "reaches", at least you're not handing these kids scholarships to do it. That's been a huge problem the last several years.
No inside knowledge, but I would suspect, with all the non-athletic scholarships out there, that schools “find a way” to at least “help” these PWOs with their tuition. Just makes sense to me...
Go Pitt.
Go Pitt.
Agreed. I’m guessing these kids get help in identifying and qualifying for needs based and academic tuition assistance.
Back in the 90's, any such assistance was a violation. A family member was a walk-on athlete at Ohio State and any grants and aid was very strongly questioned by the NCAA. He ended up actually losing scholarships that he had been awarded because of his walk-on status. He ended up transferring after one year. The NCAA doesn't want under-the-counter scholarships in athletics. Ironically, he ended up at DIII where there are no schollies but the school paid his way through other avenues which seemed very similar to what would've gotten him in trouble at tOSU.
I just think Pitt has become a great option for a talented kid who is not being recruited at the P5 level but wants to play P5 football. The success of guys like Morrissey and Aston make Pitt pretty attractive to kids who in other years may have walked on elsewhere. They think they have an actual shot.
Can the team help get PWOs admitted to a certain academic program, or admitted in the school in general? Pitt is a good academic school and I wonder if PWOs get any benefit in that regard.
Private schools have a lot of "funny money" they can give walk ons. Pitt really doesn't do much of anything it doesn't do for regular students (which is almost nothing).
A guy I used to work with would always talk about Mt. Union in this capacity. He would say it isn’t a coincidence that they were so good. He coached against them at one time.
https://247sports.com/Player/Paris-Brown-Jr-83472/TimelineEvents/
This kid has a ton of offers . Ends up at Pitt. My guess is he procrastinated a little too much.
This kid has a ton of offers . Ends up at Pitt. My guess is he procrastinated a little too much.
Back in the 90s I worked at Pitt and I had to verify that certain players/walk-ons were not recruited. Per the NCAA if they were recruited any gift aid they received from Pitt had to be counted therefore a scholarship was used. This was done for everyone on the roster every year. Been out of it for to many years so no clue if that has changed but doubt it and wouldn't be surprised if it got even more restrictive
There's probably a story there. He's not exactly a top tier recruit but a lot of those schools could do worse.
Most P5 schools are similarly situated in that respect and most have PWOs who have wound up being impact players. Basically the cream usually rises. Guys who are popping off in practice will get on the field no matter what their scholarship status.
The good D3 schools operate like that. They magically find aid money for good athletes. I know Miami tells walk-ons that they’ll qualify for all sorts of financial aid.
My nephew attends a D3 school for football. My brother is paying slightly above $10K for him to attend there the past 3 years. This year my niece became a Freshman at the same school. My brother is paying slightly over $30k for her. D3 is a funny situation.
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I know coaches from the FCS level complain about the Ivy League which has a "holier than thou" mindset by maintaining a policy to not award athletic scholarships. Instead they give out very large financial aid packages without limit ... so they can have a roster of 100 kids and theoretically all of them could be receiving generous aid packages, whereas other FCS schools can offer no more than 63 scholarships.
Totally BS as I know firsthand Ivy League does not factor this in! I actually think they do just the opposite—at least that’s what my bank account says
the Ivy’s meet full financial need. It’s very helpful for families with low income
Exactly right, strict formula for determining exact financial aid amount! Hence, no “athletic scholarships” which was Upg bobcat’s assertion above, which what was I was refuting.
Yes and I am sure they find a way to work the system just a tad bit better for select athletes. You really think they are above that?
Nope, I don’t think they’re above that. But I don’t know of one instance in 4 years while meeting lots of athletes. Do you know of any examples?
No I don't have examples, I just know human nature. With that said I know there has to be examples, it is just a matter of locating them.
This is fact!
At the D3 level there are no athletic scholarships but there actually are.
Top D3 schools will find ways to get preferred athletes in, at a reduced tuition compared to non sports students or walk on sports participants.
Some have arrangements with alums in the area who own businesses who provide "no show" jobs.
Its not just D1/P5 programs that do this stuff.
The number of PWO has not changed. The only difference is the process has sped up and with social media and all the media outlets covering recruiting it has become more public. These commitments are not binding in any way and the often change. Far too often when the reality of how much they are going to pay hit they will end up taking another offer. Also often lower level school will have more money open up and the kid will end up with a better package.
To wish me luck, means I would have to care enough to look. I don't care enough, in fact I don't care at all. Good for the kids who benefited, they are set up for life because of the ivy league network. But if I had to look the first place I would look is Cornell Wrestling.
My nephew would have paid the same the same at the local PSAC schools because they lack funding as he does at his current D3 school. He was also recruited by Patriot League schools too, but they didn't want to use a full ship and they asked that he walk on. His current school is considered more prestigious than any of the PSAC schools (I'm not big into school ranks/prestige, but he was), and the funding difference between Patriot League to his deal at D3 was too great. So he went the D3 route because he knew there was no NFL in his future, so he chose where he liked best and what would help his future the most With the least amount of debt.
I have two friends 10 years apart who were recruited by Cornell. One from a middle class 2 teacher household and the other from a wealthy family. The wealthy kid went to Cornell and his family didn’t have to pay a thing for his Cornell educations. The one who’s my age was the middle class principal’s son. He had numerous mid-major D1 offers. Cornell's recruitment of him involved a lavish dinner at a private club with several local Cornell alums. He and his dad were assured that they really wanted him at Cornell and he wouldn’t have to worry about paying for it. He chose one of the mid-major full rides instead, because he wanted his family to be able to attend most of his games. He has regretted that choice ever since. My brother had a teammate from an upper-Middle class family who went to Yale to play football. Again his financial package was such that his family never paid a dime for his Yale degree.
The Ivys have tons of private money at their disposal for scholarships of any kind they wish to invent. So much that they couldn’t spend it all if they tried.
FWIW, all 3 of these guys were accomplished students at large public high schools- but none of them could ever have qualified for admission to an Ivy school without football.
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Its just an example of these high major schools being greedy. I dont blame them for doing this but they are marketing walking-on with a "shot" at a scholarship instead of being a 3 year starter at an FCS school. Kids signing up to sit the bench and this hurts FCS football. I mean I dont shed any tears for FCS but I will never cease to be amazed how many HS kids are willing to sit the bench for 4 years in college. It boggles my mind. Its like nobody wants to play in the games anymore.
Too many of them believe if they eventually get on the field with a power 5 program some NFL scout will take notice.
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