Random Sunday Thoughts

[TFBaum]

Before I get into the post yesterday was almost perfect, unfortunately the Mids lost to a community college that is training United Airline pilots. Pitt and UVa saved my Saturday. I didn't get to watch the Pitt game I went to the Navy AF game. Looking at the stats Pitt dominated the game. Take away the blocked punt score and short field field goal and the prediction scores last week were pretty close.
Per the ESPN stats at the 9:47 mark in the 2nd quarter Pitt win probability at 55.6% and it would never be in favor of UT again.

Reflecting on Johnny Majors leaving Pitt for Tennessee I started to think about coaches who should have stayed at the school were they had their greatest success. Please, if you respond they left to go back to their alma mater, I get that also if the HC left for a bigger program and more money I get that also. It just a list to have some fun with. If I have any of the facts wrong please correct me I am doing this by memory.

1. Johnny Majors Pitt to Tennessee. I believe if he would had stayed at Pitt he would have won at least 2 more NC. Had a great career at UT 23 bowl games in 24 years. He was screwed over by Fuller.
2. Jackie Sherrill Pitt to ATM. I believe he would have won an NC at Pitt if not multiple. I understand why he left but he would never achieve the same level of success.
3. Rich Rod WVU to Michigan. He is at Louisiana Monroe.
4. Ty Willingham Stanford to Notre Dame
5. Rick Neuheisel Colorado to Washington. I get at the time Washington was a higher profile job and Neuheisel is a west coast PAC 12 guy.
6. George O'Leary Georgia Tech to Notre Dame.
7. Dan Hawkins Boise State to Colorado. He back at his alma mater UC Davis
8. Randy Edsall UCONN to Maryland.
9. Todd "Left Lane" Graham Tulsa to Pitt.
10. Walt Harris Pitt to Stanford. I get that Pitt football and the Big East were in a bad place but look at were Pitt is today.
11. Bill O'Brien PSU to the NFL. I understand that he hated recruiting but he was the savior of PSU football.
12. Chip Kelly Oregon to the NFL. Back at UCLA and I predict he will win PAC 12 titles at UCLA.
13. Dick MacPherson Syracuse to the NFL.
14 Steve Spurrier UF to the NFL.
15. Charlie Strong Louisville to Texas
16. Scott Frost UCF to Nebraska. His life has fallen apart.
17. Mike Norville Memphis to FSU.
18. Mike Price Washington St. to Alabama.

Programs that will have a hard time regaining glory (in no order). Meaning that they will compete for an NC.
1. Nebraska
2. FSU
3. Miami
3. Auburn
4. USC
5. Notre Dame (actually be able to compete in a BCS game not just make it to one).
6. Washington
7. Texas
8. Tennessee
9. Michigan

 

[Alan Partridge]

I look at the 2nd list and recall Alabama was lost in the woods for awhile before Saban took the helm. Most of those schools have a wealth of resources that getting the coach right would mean a lot.

But I do think because of a conference change Nebraska and maybe Texas have made their return more difficult.

 

[Saboteur II]

Before I get into the post yesterday was almost perfect, unfortunately the Mids lost to a community college that is training United Airline pilots. Pitt and UVa saved my Saturday. I didn't get to watch the Pitt game I went to the Navy AF game. Looking at the stats Pitt dominated the game. Take away the blocked punt score and short field field goal and the prediction scores last week were pretty close.
Per the ESPN stats at the 9:47 mark in the 2nd quarter Pitt win probability at 55.6% and it would never be in favor of UT again.

Reflecting on Johnny Majors leaving Pitt for Tennessee I started to think about coaches who should have stayed at the school were they had their greatest success. Please, if you respond they left to go back to their alma mater, I get that also if the HC left for a bigger program and more money I get that also. It just a list to have some fun with. If I have any of the facts wrong please correct me I am doing this by memory.

1. Johnny Majors Pitt to Tennessee. I believe if he would had stayed at Pitt he would have won at least 2 more NC. Had a great career at UT 23 bowl games in 24 years. He was screwed over by Fuller.
2. Jackie Sherrill Pitt to ATM. I believe he would have won an NC at Pitt if not multiple. I understand why he left but he would never achieve the same level of success.
3. Rich Rod WVU to Michigan. He is at Louisiana Monroe.
4. Ty Willingham Stanford to Notre Dame
5. Rick Neuheisel Colorado to Washington. I get at the time Washington was a higher profile job and Neuheisel is a west coast PAC 12 guy.
6. George O'Leary Navy to Georgia Tech. He did succeed at Georgia Tech but he would have own Navy Football forever.
7. Dan Hawkins Boise State to Colorado. He back at his alma mater UC Davis
8. Randy Edsall UCONN to Maryland.
9. Todd "Left Lane" Graham Tulsa to Pitt.
10. Walt Harris Pitt to Stanford. I get that Pitt football and the Big East were in a bad place but look at were Pitt is today.
11. Bill O'Brien PSU to the NFL. I understand that he hated recruiting but he was the savior of PSU football.
12. Chip Kelly Oregon to the NFL. Back at UCLA and I predict he will win PAC 12 titles at UCLA.
13. Dick MacPherson Syracuse to the NFL.
14 Steve Spurrier UF to the NFL.
15. Charlie Strong USF to Texas
16. Scott Frost UCF to Nebraska. His life has fallen apart.
17. Mike Norville Memphis to FSU.

Programs that will have a hard time regaining glory (in no order). Meaning that they will compete for an NC.
1. Nebraska
2. FSU
3. Miami
3. Auburn
4. USC
5. Notre Dame (actually be able to compete in a BCS game not just make it to one).
6. Washington
7. Texas
8. Tennessee
9. Michigan

Nebraska is nowhere near fertile recruiting territory and since their “walk on” shenanigans were outlawed years ago, they have barely scratched relevance.
Any team in Florida can win because that state has the best and most high school football players....and it ain’t close.

 

[DaveTrout]

Didn't Strong leave Louisville for Texas?

 

[smenges]

Before I get into the post yesterday was almost perfect, unfortunately the Mids lost to a community college that is training United Airline pilots. Pitt and UVa saved my Saturday. I didn't get to watch the Pitt game I went to the Navy AF game. Looking at the stats Pitt dominated the game. Take away the blocked punt score and short field field goal and the prediction scores last week were pretty close.
Per the ESPN stats at the 9:47 mark in the 2nd quarter Pitt win probability at 55.6% and it would never be in favor of UT again.

Reflecting on Johnny Majors leaving Pitt for Tennessee I started to think about coaches who should have stayed at the school were they had their greatest success. Please, if you respond they left to go back to their alma mater, I get that also if the HC left for a bigger program and more money I get that also. It just a list to have some fun with. If I have any of the facts wrong please correct me I am doing this by memory.

1. Johnny Majors Pitt to Tennessee. I believe if he would had stayed at Pitt he would have won at least 2 more NC. Had a great career at UT 23 bowl games in 24 years. He was screwed over by Fuller.
2. Jackie Sherrill Pitt to ATM. I believe he would have won an NC at Pitt if not multiple. I understand why he left but he would never achieve the same level of success.
3. Rich Rod WVU to Michigan. He is at Louisiana Monroe.
4. Ty Willingham Stanford to Notre Dame
5. Rick Neuheisel Colorado to Washington. I get at the time Washington was a higher profile job and Neuheisel is a west coast PAC 12 guy.
6. George O'Leary Navy to Georgia Tech. He did succeed at Georgia Tech but he would have own Navy Football forever.
7. Dan Hawkins Boise State to Colorado. He back at his alma mater UC Davis
8. Randy Edsall UCONN to Maryland.
9. Todd "Left Lane" Graham Tulsa to Pitt.
10. Walt Harris Pitt to Stanford. I get that Pitt football and the Big East were in a bad place but look at were Pitt is today.
11. Bill O'Brien PSU to the NFL. I understand that he hated recruiting but he was the savior of PSU football.
12. Chip Kelly Oregon to the NFL. Back at UCLA and I predict he will win PAC 12 titles at UCLA.
13. Dick MacPherson Syracuse to the NFL.
14 Steve Spurrier UF to the NFL.
15. Charlie Strong USF to Texas
16. Scott Frost UCF to Nebraska. His life has fallen apart.
17. Mike Norville Memphis to FSU.

Programs that will have a hard time regaining glory (in no order). Meaning that they will compete for an NC.
1. Nebraska
2. FSU
3. Miami
3. Auburn
4. USC
5. Notre Dame (actually be able to compete in a BCS game not just make it to one).
6. Washington
7. Texas
8. Tennessee
9. Michigan

A few edits:
George O’Leary never coached at Navy (that was Paul Johnson), but he deserves to be on this list for leaving GA Tech for Notre Dame and being axed 5 days later when someone noticed what Notre Dame’s background check did not, his bio/resume wasn’t accurate. His Master’s from “NYU-Stony Brook” was literally impossible.

Strong left Louisville for an ill-fated run at Texas.

One addition to the list needs to be Mike Price who turned Washington St. into a 10-win, PAC12 leader. Him leaving for the Alabama job and being fired a few months later for a strip club/hotel scandal was lose-lose.

 

[TFBaum]

A few edits:
George O’Leary never coached at Navy (that was Paul Johnson), but he deserves to be on this list for leaving GA Tech for Notre Dame and being axed 5 days later when someone noticed what Notre Dame’s background check did not, his bio/resume wasn’t accurate. His Master’s from “NYU-Stony Brook” was literally impossible.

Strong left Louisville for an ill-fated run at Texas.

One addition to the list needs to be Mike Price who turned Washington St. into a 10-win, PAC12 leader. Him leaving for the Alabama job and being fired a few months later for a strip club/hotel scandal was lose-lose.

I had a brain fart on O’Leary. I am getting old. I will make the edits as I said I did it memory.

 

[NCanton Panther]

Gerry Faust, Ohio HS to Notre Dame. What was he thinking, errr, what was ND thinking!!

 

[Franb]

Gerry Faust, Ohio HS to Notre Dame. What was he thinking, errr, what was ND thinking!!

He was thinking about all the money he would make at ND, compared to his high school salary.

 

[rmf05]

I don't think Majors gets anything more out of Pitt than Sherril did and everything went right for Sherril for those 3 years and he still couldn't win the NC here. 76' was really special and 80' was a great team but that would never have been maintained. This just isn't an elite program and no hire will change that long term. The 70's proved that.

 

[TFBaum]

I don't think Majors gets anything more out of Pitt than Sherril did and everything went right for Sherril for those 3 years and he still couldn't win the NC here. 76' was really special and 80' was a great team but that would never have been maintained. This just isn't an elite program and no hire will change that long term. The 70's proved that.

We can agree to disagree. It would have taken a major cash infusion into Pitt stadium. What I will say is WPA was producing talent. What still amazes me is that Pitt is truly the last East coast big city school still playing power 5 football. Think about all the schools in the big NE cities that were powers in the 20"s, 30's, 40's, and 50's that dropped or lowered football. At the Yale club of NYC they have the program of Bulldog games Yale v Georgia.

 

[RaleighPittFan]

If Johnny had stayed at Pitt beyond '76 would Jackie have stayed too? He would most certainly be in high demand as a head coach somewhere. If Jackie left, would Johnny have enjoyed the same level of success?

There's no way to answer any of those questions, but it's no guarantee the outcome would have been different.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Walt didn't voluntarily leave so I wouldn't include him on that list. But otherwise a good list. I would add Dennis Franchione leaving Alabama for Texas A&M .

I bet O'brien will resurface for a high profile college gig, one of the SEC schools like Miss State trying to beat Saban by hiring his staff.

 

[Saboteur II]

He was thinking about all the money he would make at ND, compared to his high school salary.

No. Anyone who knew Faust knew that he loved ND more than life itself.
Long after he was fired, he sat in front of me at a Pitt ND game on the “visitors” side. He was alone and I doubt anyone recognized him. He never made a sound.
I met him in the spring of 79 when playing outdoor hoops in a no autopsy no foul game at Moeller.
He rode a little moped - and could hear the tempers flaring. He came over and mentioned nothing about our near brawl. He just came over and acted like the nicest guy in the world. Which he was.
Years later I was told that he could not get in the faces of ND players and they didn’t give their all.
Whatever Faust did, money was not the motivator.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

No. Anyone who knew Faust knew that he loved ND more than life itself.
Long after he was fired, he sat in front of me at a Pitt ND game on the “visitors” side. He was alone and I doubt anyone recognized him. He never made a sound.
I met him in the spring of 79 when playing outdoor hoops in a no autopsy no foul game at Moeller.
He rode a little moped - and could hear the tempers flaring. He came over and mentioned nothing about our near brawl. He just came over and acted like the nicest guy in the world. Which he was.
Years later I was told that he could not get in the faces of ND players and they didn’t give their all.
Whatever Faust did, money was not the motivator.

ND beating Pitt in 1982 at Pitt stadium was the beginning of the end for Pitt football. Not sure if it was Faust who made the call but the gadget play with Alan Pinkett tossing it back to Kiel who then lobbed a TD pass opened up a close game and was essentially the nail in the coffin.

And speaking of nails in coffins, it was Paterno who did that in 1985 by destroying both Pitt & ND that year and mercifully ending the Faust & Foge era. The only good thing Paterno ever did, lol.

 

[Mikefln]

Programs that will have a hard time regaining glory (in no order). Meaning that they will compete for an NC.
1. Nebraska
2. FSU
3. Miami
3. Auburn
4. USC
5. Notre Dame (actually be able to compete in a BCS game not just make it to one).
6. Washington
7. Texas
8. Tennessee
9. Michigan

FSU/Texas/ND just don't belong there. They can right the ship with better coaches. Not that Kelly is bad, but he is one step behind the big 2 and others like Jimbo Fischer

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

FSU/Texas/ND just don't belong there. They can right the ship with better coaches. Not that Kelly is bad, but he is one step behind the big 2 and others like Jimbo Fischer

Not sure what coach can do more than Kelly could at ND. I just don't think they are willing to go to the depths of an SEC school to win it all.

 

[Saboteur II]

ND beating Pitt in 1982 at Pitt stadium was the beginning of the end for Pitt football. Not sure if it was Faust who made the call but the gadget play with Alan Pinkett tossing it back to Kiel who then lobbed a TD pass opened up a close game and was essentially the nail in the coffin.

And speaking of nails in coffins, it was Paterno who did that in 1985 by destroying both Pitt & ND that year and mercifully ending the Faust & Foge era. The only good thing Paterno ever did, lol.

I was at the ‘82 game and remember that Pinkett flea flicker too well. My brother and I were furious because our hometown in Ohio was 50/50 ND and OSU.
ND fans were pissed too because it bought Faust some time.

 

[Mikefln]

Not sure what coach can do more than Kelly could at ND. I just don't think they are willing to go to the depths of an SEC school to win it all.

YMMV but for being a QB guru i think Kelly screws over his QBs more than he helps them. He did better with Book than he did in the past, but he has played mind games with his QBs that I never saw anyone else do. He is close and he has ND close, but he will not get there until he gets a talented QB and doesn't screw with their mind.
With that said the past 4 years it was the big 3, outside of them ND was right there, so they still should not be on the list imo.

 

[pittmeister]

I don't think Majors gets anything more out of Pitt than Sherril did and everything went right for Sherril for those 3 years and he still couldn't win the NC here. 76' was really special and 80' was a great team but that would never have been maintained. This just isn't an elite program and no hire will change that long term. The 70's proved that.

I hear what you’re saying, but then I take a look at the rankings and I see Cincinnati in the top 5…. You mean Pitt can’t duplicate that???? Difficult but not impossible…

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

I don't think Majors gets anything more out of Pitt than Sherril did and everything went right for Sherril for those 3 years and he still couldn't win the NC here. 76' was really special and 80' was a great team but that would never have been maintained. This just isn't an elite program and no hire will change that long term. The 70's proved that.

It most certainly could have been maintained if the commitment was there. The booster organization was in place, good recruiting footprint, etc. Too many factors went against us including the shortsightedness to put all your eggs in the Big East basket

 

[pittdan77]

Before I get into the post yesterday was almost perfect, unfortunately the Mids lost to a community college that is training United Airline pilots.

Better than being an Uber driver for the Marines.

 

[TFBaum]

Better than being an Uber driver for the Marines.

I have a cousin that went to Air Force Academy. He had a very interesting job out of the academy he wrote the launch sequences for the icbm’s.

 

[pittdan77]

I have a cousin that went to Air Force Academy. He had a very interesting job out of the academy he wrote the launch sequences for the icbm’s.

That is pretty interesting. Navy recruited me, too, but I don't look good in white.

 

[TFBaum]

That is pretty interesting. Navy recruited me, too, but I don't look good in white.

When Air Force visits or when we go to their grounds it is a very different experience then the Navy Army game. This Saturday was really special due to the date. Watching the teams running out with battle flags was very emotional.y

 

[DaveTrout]

If Johnny had stayed at Pitt beyond '76 would Jackie have stayed too? He would most certainly be in high demand as a head coach somewhere. If Jackie left, would Johnny have enjoyed the same level of success?

There's no way to answer any of those questions, but it's no guarantee the outcome would have been different.

Didn't Jackie leave to coach Washington State for a year before returning to Pitt as HC?

 

[RaleighPittFan]

Didn't Jackie leave to coach Washington State for a year before returning to Pitt as HC?

How could I have forgotten that. Thanks.

 

[TD_6082]

I hear what you’re saying, but then I take a look at the rankings and I see Cincinnati in the top 5…. You mean Pitt can’t duplicate that???? Difficult but not impossible…

Not playing in a P5 league. This year's Pitt team would be most likely be somewhere between 10-2 & 12-0 with UC's schedule.

 

[pittdan77]

When Air Force visits or when we go to their grounds it is a very different experience then the Navy Army game. This Saturday was really special due to the date. Watching the teams running out with battle flags was very emotional.y

Army/Navy has been a thing for so long that it does hit different. Can't help that. Air Force has only been around since 1964.