For those that think it is the head coach or coordinators that are the main recruiters, CBS sports is stating otherwise. I always wondered how Tennessee got good athletes, CBS sports is saying they have the number 1 recruiter in the nation in their 30 year old tight ends coach. Number 7 was listed as psu's running backs coach who has made great inroads into Fla. One thing very noticeable was the young age of the majority and the fact they were position coaches.
Recruiters
- Thread starter pbrad
- Start date
You have to have good recruiters over the whole staff. Once that happens the difference between whether or not a recruit picks your school comes down to a number of things like facilities, tradition etc. Having a head coach who can close the deal is a major factor as well. Having a coach who publicly states he does not like recruiting is a major handicap.
Not to generalize ... and I'm sure some of you geezers here are proud exceptions... but let's face it, younger guys are more likely to be single, able to hit the road constantly, and especially, to be willing to take the recruits out to strip clubs and get them boozed up.
Plus, they're working for big money blue bloods, willing to pay, willing to have em conduct the activities above. So that doesn't hurt either. Put em on our church lady team, and see if they're as effective.
Plus, they're working for big money blue bloods, willing to pay, willing to have em conduct the activities above. So that doesn't hurt either. Put em on our church lady team, and see if they're as effective.
Your assistant need to be young aggressive recruiters who are full of energy and can connect with the kids and their families......or they need to be old guys that are masters of their position that hearing their name commands respect from these kids. The best teams have a blend.
When you have neither....that's bad.
When you have neither....that's bad.
It's funny... I was at SFA for a few days the past few weeks. It seems that the bluebloods send their head coach along with an assistant early in the process. I was told the same thing applies at IMG.
Have you ever been to State College, PA? Those clubs and girls would scare away top recruits. Nothing a lot of $$$ cant fix though which is the only reason they can get all these 4-5 stars.
That's why Franklin makes sure the assistant's wives are hot!
wait a sec, WHAT? You are saying that asst coaches, younger single ones, take recruits to strip clubs and get them drunk? think about this for a second, lets break this down and think about this.
When do they do this? When they go to a high school kid's house? They take a teenager away from mom and dad, take them out to a strip club, get them drunk then take them home and drop them off at their house? This doesn't even make sense.. it doesn't even make sense, logistically..
Maybe, well probably, when a high school kid visits a school, they get paired up with a player (NOT A COACH) and they probably do what college kids do on a Friday night on a college campus but an asst coach isn't involved with this at all.
im no prude here but to think an asst coach is getting kids drunk and taking a minor to a strip club is beyond ridiculous..
Every U is different and all coaches should be good recruiters and the HC should be a great closer.
One reason to have great recruiters buried in the coaching org chart is if anything blows up a HC will probably say "hey he's the TE coach, who reports to another guy, who reports to another coach, who reported to me, and no one made me aware of this problem." Furhtermore he's just the TE coach, has no authority to do what he just did, so he must have done this on his own???
The sports business isn't much different from business-business or the politics- business, or any other business which works that way.
Didn't Brady and Belichick blame the equipment manager for Deflation Gate??
The HC will say.
I don't recall ( remember that line) anything about this but I will fix this today and he fires the TE coach.
This is chapter 5 in the Organization Handbook.
While I was working my way up the Org Chart I had a Business Controller fired. I was sorta like in the position of the TE coach just starting out.
The Business Controller asked me to do something in the area of cooking the books, I said no, he threatened to fire me, he did it and made it look like I did it but he got canned.
On his way out I told him he didn't study Chapter 5 like I did.Toward the end of the chapter it does say a good plan is a must, document everything, recordings/listening devices and pictures help. Yes they do!
One reason to have great recruiters buried in the coaching org chart is if anything blows up a HC will probably say "hey he's the TE coach, who reports to another guy, who reports to another coach, who reported to me, and no one made me aware of this problem." Furhtermore he's just the TE coach, has no authority to do what he just did, so he must have done this on his own???
The sports business isn't much different from business-business or the politics- business, or any other business which works that way.
Didn't Brady and Belichick blame the equipment manager for Deflation Gate??
The HC will say.
I don't recall ( remember that line) anything about this but I will fix this today and he fires the TE coach.
This is chapter 5 in the Organization Handbook.
While I was working my way up the Org Chart I had a Business Controller fired. I was sorta like in the position of the TE coach just starting out.
The Business Controller asked me to do something in the area of cooking the books, I said no, he threatened to fire me, he did it and made it look like I did it but he got canned.
On his way out I told him he didn't study Chapter 5 like I did.Toward the end of the chapter it does say a good plan is a must, document everything, recordings/listening devices and pictures help. Yes they do!
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This is 100% true. Especially for unofficial visits. A lot of schools also have "liaisons", so to speak, that just happen to be young, pretty co-eds that give tours and answer questions. Except sometimes they end up being something of an escort service.
SEC school got called out for that not too long ago. forget which one but yeah, university affiliated group that was nothing but hot co eds who escorted recruits. some things they were "allegedly" forced to do crossed the line..
Think this was common back in the day, Bear Bryant started it up going back as far as the 60's, "The Bears Angels" lol, God knows what they were doing back then..
Actually, a certain "ace recruiter" that's working just up the road may have been accused of running something similar at Vandy.
man, that's pretty slimy. asking college girls to "whore" themselves out for high school recruits.. it doesn't get much worse than that. I respect Pitino getting professionals over college girls, seriously, at least the professionals are getting paid and chose that job..
To be fair, I doubt many of the girls needed to be forced. We all knew people like that in college. We probably all know someone like that in the office.
Yep, they're all going to church, my mistake.
Agreed with both of you actually. The coaches are certainly aware, but need to try to maintain plausible deniability
That's all that matters. Worst case you self report some minor stuff and move on.
Franklin had “The Vandy Girls” show players around at Vanderbilt. That is one of the reasons why Recruiting picked up there when he was the coach.
And it's not exactly news that some organizations/companies use a pretty face to get out in front of what they're selling.
Look at any pharmaceutical rep hired from mid 90s to present. You’ll notice that 95% of them are female, under40 and can stop traffic with their looks.
Wining and dining make doctors to push the latest pills isn’t as unregulated as it was 10+ years ago though but pharm companies knew what they were doing.
This is actually quite true, although it began earlier than that. Drug sales calls were always a male and a female, and the female was always, always, always a knockout. She'd get your attention, but as soon as the drug came up in conversation, the guy would wedge his way in and take over the conversation. The lady was never much involved in the actual drug spiel. It was very effective.
That said, I don't think it happens that way anymore. UPMC hasn't permitted this kind of interaction in over a decade.
Thank you... thank you... thank you!!
This McKee Place guy is a one-note Johnny: the only way that schools win is to pay players, all winning programs are dishing out money, Pitt doesn't play the game... yada yada. Now we're learning that it takes young, soul-less recruiters who take school kids out and corrupt them... recruit after recruit. And, of course, they don't ever caught.
I'm not cloistered and I understand some of the crap above goes on. Probably too much. But it can not possibly be the main-stream means of having kids matriculate to schools. That would take a conspiracy too large to be hidden.
I would like him to win more of the big games if i were them, given the soul selling involved with him. I think he has what, one "good" win to date by the usual barometer? Thanks to a botched FG in the rain?
If you're gonna go full blown satanic, at least it should net you regular wins vs your primary division competitors.
Frankly, anyone would do about as well there recruiting, just with the usual payola and treated as a god aura alone. Obrien did solidly, even with the phony sanctions at the time, which were bogus but still a nusiance. They didn't need to go with a freaking pimp. Can't there be one line they won't cross there, especially with so many of them there complicit in the assaults on children? I guess not. Sad.
Listen.. I've met the guy and had several conversations. Is he egotistical, without a question. But, the dude grinds and so does his staff about as hard as any staff that I've seen. He's not a bad guy by any means. It nets them top 15 rankings and national exposure every year.
Nevertheless, it's true that the first of the modern "pimps", as you describe it, was Jackie Sherrill. He was essentially the first of the modern football coaches. He and the Golden Panthers were at the forefront of a new reality.
Yep. I'd take him over Narduzzi any day of the week. I think some of the stuff he does is stupid, but he stops at nothing to get the best talent on the team which is critical. Narduzzi on the other hand.....
Narduzzi or any other coach brought in here would be happy to do the same, if only freed up similarly like a blue blood coach to do so.
He likes it because he gets unlimited resources and support and top priority for it. Narduzzi, nor any other coach we've hired since Wannstedt (and he wasn't as great as some romanticize either), do not. No wonder it's seen as drudgery to him, which i do agree with.
But recall it didn't start that way, Narduzzi hit the ground running here full of pith and vinegar, he was doing things right on his end. But eventually hands get put out and nothing is there to fill them, and commitments don't come. And we are where we are now... pretty much where we always are with every coach.
And if people want to put the blame on the cheap fans, if we'd donate more, or that Pitt would be fine if boosters sent bag men to subsidize players but ours are too cheap or whatever you want to claim there, I'll even be willing at this point to agree. But please, don't be deluded that a mere personality of one random guy over that of an other random guy is strictly what makes dozens and dozens of top prospects sign up to go to a shithole in the middle of Klan Country North like State college.
I think I'd be willing to accept this explanation if we saw some very high profile kids coming through on visits. Maybe there's a reputation that's preceding them but I know that kids do talk. But that could also be about how the program is run, too. By that, I mean the kids who were "better" recruits aren't seeing the field very early. That's a really big problem with HS kids when you're only winning half your games.
Of course there are many factors in recruiting.
1) Success and profile of the program
2) Location, location, location
3) Facilities and Stadium
4) And of course, fan support.
But there is no bigger factor than the coach and coaching staff, and their ability to recruit. Look at the aforementioned James Franklin, not just at PSU, but at Vandy. And look at the hyper difference in recruiting between him and his predecessor Bill O'Brien?
Look at Michigan, the last years of Brady Hoke they were pulling in classes in the 30's and 40's, where Michigan rarely was outside of the Top 10. Alabama before Saban came, they weren't have top 10 classes, now are never outside the top 3. Clemson before Dabo, they never recruited like they did. USC always recruited well, but when Pete Carroll was there, it was #1 or 2 every year.
So a lot of the infrastructure can be in place, the fan support, the stadium but without the coach, it is hard to really put it all together. A great recruiter can sell a losing season as "opportunity". A great recruiter can sell winning and the success like say Alabama as "visibility", "fun" and a gateway to the NFL. A great recruiter knows how to use a big fan base. A great recruiter also can look at empty stadiums and sell recruits on a vision, that they are the guys that is going to turn it around.
Look at Kevin Stallings. Look at Jeff Capel. Look at Bryce Drew. Look at the two schools recruiting after the former left?
So yes, there are a lot of factors, but nothing is a bigger factor in recruiting than the coach and his staff. We don't have good recruiters (outside of Partridge and perhaps Beatty) and that is holding us back. In my opinion.
I'll definitely agree that this staff has little success with its higher profile guys, as well as quarterbacks, seeing the field vs others. Whether bad luck or stubbornness or incompetence. And it certainly isn't a good look, with either recruits or fans. Like you said, it'd be different if we were winning 10 or more annually. He doesn't have the luxury to make himself look hardass with a Paris Ford or some of the other guys who have transferred or languished on the bench.
