RMU doing well

[HailToPitt1985]

I never knew why RMU never developed any fanbase at all. I realize they are in a tough spot given it's a lower-tier school in a pro town but my God does this town hate college basketball. RMU should be getting 3000 just for opening the doors. Pitt should be getting 8K-9K if the team is in the .500 vicinity and bubble teams should sell the place out consistently. Instead, Pitt gets Horizon League attendance (real attendance, not the made-up numbers) and RMU draws worse than a whole lot of WPIAL teams.

Pitt's real attendance, even while we are playing this badly, is in the 6,500 - 8,000 range. We would get close to selling out if we were a real NCAAT team and playing back in the old Big East. Playing in the ACC has been a hindrance to attendance because there are no real rivalries with Pitt, other than 'Cuse. And now, they're an afterthought. Boeheim is gone and it's hard to hate them.

Coaches are the other factor. Even in the ACC, the great coaches are gone now, the ones who we just loved to boo because it was them. Remember playing against teams coached by Boeheim, Wright, Huggins, Calhoun, Thompson, Crean, Williams, Pitino...we just showed up to root against them.

In the current ACC, the coaches don't exactly elicit any hatred like some of the old Big East coaches did. The identity and aura are gone now.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Pitt's real attendance, even while we are playing this badly, is in the 6,500 - 8,000 range. We would get close to selling out if we were a real NCAAT team and playing back in the old Big East. Playing in the ACC has been a hindrance to attendance because there are no real rivalries with Pitt, other than 'Cuse. And now, they're an afterthought. Boeheim is gone and it's hard to hate them.

Coaches are the other factor. Even in the ACC, the great coaches are gone now, the ones who we just loved to boo because it was them. Remember playing against teams coached by Boeheim, Wright, Huggins, Calhoun, Thompson, Crean, Williams, Pitino...we just showed up to root against them.

In the current ACC, the coaches don't exactly elicit any hatred like some of the old Big East coaches did. The identity and aura are gone now.

No it's not. We are the 9th team out according to Lunardi so still within a prayer of the NCAAT and there will be 3000 people vs GT, so basically the same as Stallings 0-19.

Even if we were 13-14, there should be 8000 there. Its major college basketball.

 

[ColonialInsider]

I never knew why RMU never developed any fanbase at all. I realize they are in a tough spot given it's a lower-tier school in a pro town but my God does this town hate college basketball. RMU should be getting 3000 just for opening the doors. Pitt should be getting 8K-9K if the team is in the .500 vicinity and bubble teams should sell the place out consistently. Instead, Pitt gets Horizon League attendance (real attendance, not the made-up numbers) and RMU draws worse than a whole lot of WPIAL teams.

The students don't show up and the school doesn't have a deep, passionate alumni base.

The students have never shown up consistently. They show up for tournament games and special occasions. That's it. The basketball program has survived because of strong business networking in the region, which has led to the support to do the new arena (and a similar push now has a new hockey arena in the works) and to pay Andy Toole.

I'm not so sure Duquesne would be much of an obstacle to RMU joining. The A-10 already has 2 teams in Richmond (Richmond, VCU), the DMV (George Mason, George Washington), and Philly (St. Joe's, LaSalle). If anything it would help both programs since it would kick-start a true local rivalry. Again, this is assuming RMU has sustained success in the HL and possibly the CAA afterwards.

As for the program's ceiling, the Horizon League or something comparable is it in the current college sports climate. Years ago the ceiling might have been higher had the university been able to capitalize on some momentum, but it couldn't get its act together. Now? You hope for a run like St. Peter's or UMBC or any other mid-major that's made a surprise in the NCAA Tournament. Win 20+ games most years, fight for the conference title and a tournament bid, win enough non-conference games to get you to the 13-seed line or 14-seed line instead of the play-in game, and see what happens.

That's the ceiling. You can still keep good players - to a degree - by doing that. But moving to the CAA doesn't appreciably change their fortunes. And the A-10 will never take them. RMU does nothing for the A-10. It's not an elite academic school. It doesn't have a large donor base. It doesn't give them a new market. The Horizon took RMU because it needed a team and it made sense to connect with YSU and Cleveland State.

 

[BobbyMoPittFan]

RMU beats IU Indy, closing the regular season on a 7 game win streak and winning 12 of their last 13. Thanks to results elsewhere, they have clinched the Horizon League regular season championship outright and will be the 1 seed in the conference tournament. However, Folgueiras exited the game in the second half after landing awkwardly on his ankle while blocking a shot. Luckily RMU being idle this weekend combined with the first round bye in the tournament means he'll have a full week to rest it. Hopefully it will heal up by then.

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

RMU beats IU Indy, closing the regular season on a 7 game win streak and winning 12 of their last 13. Thanks to results elsewhere, they have clinched the Horizon League regular season championship outright and will be the 1 seed in the conference tournament. However, Folgueiras exited the game in the second half after landing awkwardly on his ankle while blocking a shot. Luckily RMU being idle this weekend combined with the first round bye in the tournament means he'll have a full week to rest it. Hopefully it will heal up by then.

Really really hope they get a bid! Where do they play the HL conference tournament?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Really really hope they get a bid! Where do they play the HL conference tournament?

Quarterfinals on campus. Semis and finals in Indy.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

My guess is that Toole leaves RMU this year. I'm not sure how good a job he can get because RMU has been terrible in the Horizon so the A10 or American or a league like that may not be in the cards but I think he takes a job in a league like the MAC or CAA, so basically one level away from the P5. The question is who will be the next RMU coach? My vote is for Mike Rice. What about Brandin Knight? If he wants the Pitt job, maybe go to RMU and win first.

 

[BobbyMoPittFan]

My guess is that Toole leaves RMU this year. I'm not sure how good a job he can get because RMU has been terrible in the Horizon so the A10 or American or a league like that may not be in the cards but I think he takes a job in a league like the MAC or CAA, so basically one level away from the P5. The question is who will be the next RMU coach? My vote is for Mike Rice. What about Brandin Knight? If he wants the Pitt job, maybe go to RMU and win first.

The time for Toole to get poached would have come a decade ago. Is winning a 14-15 seed low major league once after 1 mid season and 3 poor seasons that much more impressive than being consistent contenders in a 15-16 seed low major league? I struggle to see why he would be in higher demand now compared to then.

 

[ColonialInsider]

Whether Toole moves on at any point will be highly dependent on the specific job. He turned down Fordham years ago because they didn't have the administrative support he felt was necessary.

That said, his current contract expires next season. So that could influence anything this spring. Of the current openings, La Salle would be a possibility, but I'm not sure if they're a huge step up outside of obviously being in the A-10. They're not a big budget program and have not been successful much in the last 15 years.

Anything is possible but he won't jump just to jump.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Folguieras won POY. Dickerson won DPOY.

I try to get both if I'm Pitt. Defense translates. And Dickerson will be able to score some and get you 7-8 PPG in the ACC.

 

[Panther Holla]

I never knew why RMU never developed any fanbase at all. I realize they are in a tough spot given it's a lower-tier school in a pro town but my God does this town hate college basketball. RMU should be getting 3000 just for opening the doors. Pitt should be getting 8K-9K if the team is in the .500 vicinity and bubble teams should sell the place out consistently. Instead, Pitt gets Horizon League attendance (real attendance, not the made-up numbers) and RMU draws worse than a whole lot of WPIAL teams.

I’ve lived in the West Hills for 35 years. Unless you have a kid at RMU, nobody talks about them. Zip. zero. They might as well be Moon or Cornell. I’ve gone to two games there in that time, to see Pitt in a tournament and to see the Colonials play Carnegie Mellon.

RMU never moved my needle. But. This year is different. I hope they win their league and get into the dance. Andy Toole would look good behind the Pitt bench.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I’ve lived in the West Hills for 35 years. Unless you have a kid at RMU, nobody talks about them. Zip. zero. They might as well be Moon or Cornell. I’ve gone to two games there in that time, to see Pitt in a tournament and to see the Colonials play Carnegie Mellon.

RMU never moved my needle. But. This year is different. I hope they win their league and get into the dance. Andy Toole would look good behind the Pitt bench.

I understand that and I'm sure there attendance is worse than Moon, West A, Montour, maybe even Single A Cornell. But I don't get it. Why does this area hate college basketball so much? There's no pro team. A bubble program like Pitt should be getting 10K per game. RMU should be able to draw 3000.

 

[GaryMcgheeForThree]

I’m so desperate to watch meaningful college basketball… looking forward to going to the game on Thursday!

Back in the NEC, I think they would have hosted through the conference finals as the one seed, but I’ll take one game on campus.

It’s a nice gym, and I recommend anyone go, just to get some positive college basketball energy.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I’m so desperate to watch meaningful college basketball… looking forward to going to the game on Thursday!

Back in the NEC, I think they would have hosted through the conference finals as the one seed, but I’ll take one game on campus.

It’s a nice gym, and I recommend anyone go, just to get some positive college basketball energy.

RMU marketing strategy:

"Come see tomorrow's Pitt stars today!"

 

[happjack]

I understand that and I'm sure there attendance is worse than Moon, West A, Montour, maybe even Single A Cornell. But I don't get it. Why does this area hate college basketball so much? There's no pro team. A bubble program like Pitt should be getting 10K per game. RMU should be able to draw 3000.

I don't think anyone in the Horizon League even averages 3,000 people a game, the casual sports fan has very little interest in a school they didn't go to fighting for a 15 seed. Oakland University in my neck of the woods had huge upset in the tourney last year, they still get 2,000ish fans at their arena, and when they host Michigan State at the Pizza Box in Detroit its those 2,000 fans and 10,000 Spartys.

 

[Panther Holla]

I understand that and I'm sure their attendance is worse than Moon, West A, Montour, maybe even Single A Cornell. But I don't get it. Why does this area hate college basketball so much? There's no pro team. A bubble program like Pitt should be getting 10K per game. RMU should be able to draw 3000.

Can’t speak for my neighbors. As a Pitt fan I don’t root for the Dukes or RMU. RoMo has a nickname that reminds me of home improvements. Maybe if they were the Bobcats I would feel differently.

 

[BobbyMoPittFan]

I don't think anyone in the Horizon League even averages 3,000 people a game, the casual sports fan has very little interest in a school they didn't go to fighting for a 15 seed. Oakland University in my neck of the woods had huge upset in the tourney last year, they still get 2,000ish fans at their arena, and when they host Michigan State at the Pizza Box in Detroit its those 2,000 fans and 10,000 Spartys.

So I went into Wikipedia and gathered the attendance figures for each team. This is what I found:

Wright State: 4,267
Northern Kentucky: 2,877
Oakland: 2,229
Milwaukee: 2,146
Green Bay: 2,130
Youngstown State: 1,909
Purdue Ft. Wayne: 1,535
Cleveland State: 1,443
Detroit Mercy: 1,138
IU Indy: 993
RMU: 929

That is just pathetic. The newest arena in the league, won the regular season title, and still the lowest attendance in the conference. We could go undefeated and that place still wouldn't get filled unless we played a power team. While it does appear that we will have a good turnout for Thursday's tournament game, based on prior evidence it's very unlikely that the buzz from this will carry over into next season.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

So I went into Wikipedia and gathered the attendance figures for each team. This is what I found:

Wright State: 4,267
Northern Kentucky: 2,877
Oakland: 2,229
Milwaukee: 2,146
Green Bay: 2,130
Youngstown State: 1,909
Purdue Ft. Wayne: 1,535
Cleveland State: 1,443
Detroit Mercy: 1,138
IU Indy: 993
RMU: 929

That is just pathetic. The newest arena in the league, won the regular season title, and still the lowest attendance in the conference. We could go undefeated and that place still wouldn't get filled unless we played a power team. While it does appear that we will have a good turnout for Thursday's tournament game, based on prior evidence it's very unlikely that the buzz from this will carry over into next season.

I would take it a step further. If RMU was in the ACC or Big Ten, it would only get large crowds for games vs Pitt, PSU, Duke, UNC, OSU, etc. RMU vs GT or Minnesota or Wake would only draw 1000 people. Its pathetic and I don't understand it. There is almost a hatred of college basketball in this area. I dont know what RMU can do about it. If tickets were free or even if let's say they paid you $10 to go, it wouldn't increase attendance much.

 

[BobbyMoPittFan]

If tickets were free or even if let's say they paid you $10 to go, it wouldn't increase attendance much.

I was a student during the '19-'20 NEC championship run the year the arena opened and outside the inaugural game vs Pitt and the conference title game, it was woefully bad, especially among students, which is worse because we always got in for free. Even the students who went usually sat on their phones most of the time and left at the half, no matter how close the game was.

 

[happjack]

I would take it a step further. If RMU was in the ACC or Big Ten, it would only get large crowds for games vs Pitt, PSU, Duke, UNC, OSU, etc. RMU vs GT or Minnesota or Wake would only draw 1000 people. Its pathetic and I don't understand it. There is almost a hatred of college basketball in this area. I dont know what RMU can do about it. If tickets were free or even if let's say they paid you $10 to go, it wouldn't increase attendance much.

What's hard to understand, RMU has an enrollment of less than 5,000 with almost all living off campus, plays in league that gets 15th or 16th seeds in the tourney, there's basically zero local press newspaper wise, the 11PM news only mentions them in passing, there's around 10 basketball games NBA/NCAA on tv every night for diehard hoops fans, even more if you have ESPN+, and no one cares about low level college sports, just look at the Horizon's attendance numbers.

There's no hatred for college basketball in the area, no one cares about college basketball because there's nothing to care about, Pitt's best teams ever never sniffed a Final Four, being a bubble team for the ACC tourney is just sad, Duquesne has been to 1 NCAA tourney since Gerald Ford was President, and RMU is RMU.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

What's hard to understand, RMU has an enrollment of less than 5,000 with almost all living off campus, plays in league that gets 15th or 16th seeds in the tourney, there's basically zero local press newspaper wise, the 11PM news only mentions them in passing, there's around 10 basketball games NBA/NCAA on tv every night for diehard hoops fans, even more if you have ESPN+, and no one cares about low level college sports, just look at the Horizon's attendance numbers.

There's no hatred for college basketball in the area, no one cares about college basketball because there's nothing to care about, Pitt's best teams ever never sniffed a Final Four, being a bubble team for the ACC tourney is just sad, Duquesne has been to 1 NCAA tourney since Gerald Ford was President, and RMU is RMU.

The sport of basketball is relatively popular locally. There's no NBA team. If you want to watch higher level basketball in person, your only option is college basketball. Yet, Pitt, RMU, and Duquesne combined don't even equal what Dayton gets (real numbers, not made up ones). There may be some Saturdays where the combined real attendance of all 3 is 5000 or less. Its horrific. Probably the worst college basketball town in America.

And the excuse about the Horizon League not being good or students living off campus isn't a good one. My guess is that 90% of RMU students live within 10 miles of campus and probably 80% within 5 miles. The distance isn't keeping them away. And though the Horizon League isn't the SEC, I'm simply saying they should outdraw Moon and Montour. If you wanted to watch basketball in the West Hills, I dont know why you'd choose to watch future D3 players at Moon rather than RMU.

 

[happjack]

The sport of basketball is relatively popular locally. There's no NBA team. If you want to watch higher level basketball in person, your only option is college basketball. Yet, Pitt, RMU, and Duquesne combined don't even equal what Dayton gets (real numbers, not made up ones). There may be some Saturdays where the combined real attendance of all 3 is 5000 or less. Its horrific. Probably the worst college basketball town in America.

And the excuse about the Horizon League not being good or students living off campus isn't a good one. My guess is that 90% of RMU students live within 10 miles of campus and probably 80% within 5 miles. The distance isn't keeping them away. And though the Horizon League isn't the SEC, I'm simply saying they should outdraw Moon and Montour. If you wanted to watch basketball in the West Hills, I dont know why you'd choose to watch future D3 players at Moon rather than RMU.

RMU and Duquesne aren't high level basketball, there's nothing exciting with Pitt basketball at the moment to bring in casual sports fans, what else is there to do in Dayton? With the exception of Northern Kentucky and maybe Youngstown State, the Horizon is a league of commuter schools with a student body that's most likely working in the evening and weekends.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

RMU and Duquesne aren't high level basketball, there's nothing exciting with Pitt basketball at the moment to bring in casual sports fans, what else is there to do in Dayton? With the exception of Northern Kentucky and maybe Youngstown State, the Horizon is a league of commuter schools with a student body that's most likely working in the evening and weekends.

I understand that Pitt, RMU, and Duquesne aren't exactly exciting. However, my guess is real college basketball attendance is lower in Pittsburgh than any other major city with equivalent level of teams. It's just a terrible college basketball town. Maybe the absolute worst college basketball town. OK, well, it's better than Boston and Miami I guess.

 

[BobbyMoPittFan]

I understand that Pitt, RMU, and Duquesne aren't exactly exciting. However, my guess is real college basketball attendance is lower in Pittsburgh than any other major city with equivalent level of teams. It's just a terrible college basketball town. Maybe the absolute worst college basketball town. OK, well, it's better than Boston and Miami I guess.

Dayton has 2 teams in the same 2 conferences as Duquesne and RMU and no high major programs yet they get more attendance combined than this city's three programs. Part of that is Dayton's incredible passion for basketball but still that's just depressing from Pittsburgh's POV.

 

[happjack]

I understand that Pitt, RMU, and Duquesne aren't exactly exciting. However, my guess is real college basketball attendance is lower in Pittsburgh than any other major city with equivalent level of teams. It's just a terrible college basketball town. Maybe the absolute worst college basketball town. OK, well, it's better than Boston and Miami I guess.

Most urban areas draw flies for college hoops, DePaul, UIC, and Chicago State are a sea of empty seats, Northwestern's attendance isn't that great even with tons of alumni from other Big 10 schools in the area. St. John's has a ton of bandwagon jumpers at MSG when they're good, but no casual fan is going out to Queens to watch them play Big East bottom feeders or non-conference games, is Fordham even on anyones radar there. I live in the Detroit area and you wouldn't know Oakland and UDM basketball even existed, Eastern Michigan's gym out in Ypsi is empty for games, when I lived in Ann Arbor Chrisler Arena was empty on weeknights if Michigan had even a mediocre team.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Most urban areas draw flies for college hoops, DePaul, UIC, and Chicago State are a sea of empty seats, Northwestern's attendance isn't that great even with tons of alumni from other Big 10 schools in the area. St. John's has a ton of bandwagon jumpers at MSG when they're good, but no casual fan is going out to Queens to watch them play Big East bottom feeders or non-conference games, is Fordham even on anyones radar there. I live in the Detroit area and you wouldn't know Oakland and UDM basketball even existed, Eastern Michigan's gym out in Ypsi is empty for games, when I lived in Ann Arbor Chrisler Arena was empty on weeknights if Michigan had even a mediocre team.

Couple things:

You are listing cities with NBA teams. Cities without NBA teams usually have crazy big college basketball fanbases

Lou
Syr
Richmond
Dayton
Omaha
San Diego
Hartford
Raleigh

Why not Pittsburgh?

You also forgot Loyola Chicago who draws very well. DePaul has been the worst major program for 25 years and didn't even play in Chicago until recently. That's a special case.

Pittsburgh is probably the worst non-NBA college basketball city. It doesn't make sense.

 

[happjack]

Couple things:

You are listing cities with NBA teams. Cities without NBA teams usually have crazy big college basketball fanbases

Lou
Syr
Richmond
Dayton
Omaha
San Diego
Hartford
Raleigh

Why not Pittsburgh?

You also forgot Loyola Chicago who draws very well. DePaul has been the worst major program for 25 years and didn't even play in Chicago until recently. That's a special case.

Pittsburgh is probably the worst non-NBA college basketball city. It doesn't make sense.

Of that list only San Diego and Raleigh have pro sports teams and they both have one each, Pittsburgh has three. Plus SDSU and the Padres seasons don't really overlap and Raleigh is an outlier since the 2 big state schools and the bluest of blue bloods are in the region. In the other cities you listed the college team is the only game in town for high level sports.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

You also forgot Loyola Chicago who draws very well.

Loyola Chicago plays in an arena that seats less than 4,500 people. But that's OK, because they are averaging less than 3,000 people per game this year. They average about 500 more people per game than Duquesne.

But maybe you mean last year. Last year they averaged, well, just over 3,000 people per game. And again, about 500 more people per game than Duquesne.

If Loyola Chicago is your idea of drawing well then Duquesne draws well, and Pitt is the gold standard.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Loyola Chicago plays in an arena that seats less than 4,500 people. But that's OK, because they are averaging less than 3,000 people per game this year. They average about 500 more people per game than Duquesne.

But maybe you mean last year. Last year they averaged, well, just over 3,000 people per game. And again, about 500 more people per game than Duquesne.

If Loyola Chicago is your idea of drawing well then Duquesne draws well, and Pitt is the gold standard.

Duquesne makes up numbers like Pitt. They don't even draw 1000 most games.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Duquesne makes up numbers like Pitt. They don't even draw 1000 most games.

Not only do you know that, you know that Loyola doesn't do it.

Yeah, sure.

You could have just said "oh, I didn't realize that Loyola's attendance was that bad. Guess I got another one wrong."

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Not only do you know that, you know that Loyola doesn't do it.

Yeah, sure.

You could have just said "oh, I didn't realize that Loyola's attendance was that bad. Guess I got another one wrong."

Every time I'm flipping through and see Loyola on TV, it looks packed. Now that's probably because it's small but it's full. Like St. Joseph's. Duquesne is friends and family only.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

I doubt Toole is leaving unless it's a huge money offer. Which seems unlikely coming off 4? losing seasons before this. He is a good coach though, he develops his players fast. And has to since he loses them to the portal. He also has two kids in Mt Lebo and his wife is a well paid VP at Dicks Sporting Goods. Like I said, it'd have to be a big offer.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Every time I'm flipping through and see Loyola on TV, it looks packed. Now that's probably because it's small but it's full. Like St. Joseph's. Duquesne is friends and family only.

Yeah, clearly everyone else inflates their attendance numbers, except Loyola Chicago, who has decided to be trailblazers by deflating theirs.