Robinson
- Thread starter JD1976
- Start date
not athletic and if he can't hit very makeable shots, makes it a long night.
Yes all the players were bad yet again but if we can't get solid play and leadership from our senior PG at this point against a winless team at home, he really is useless and indefensible. How many open shots did he miss? Carter was letting him shoot without even defending him as the game went on because he couldn't buy a basket. Just no excuse.
Part of NC State's defensive philosophy was to leave Robinson open. Pretty effective
Who is this "Carter" you speak of? Your analysis of basketball is on about the same level as your knowledge of the opponents' names.
Laughing. I think Carter is Barbers cousin who also lit us up for 30 last Saturday.
JR is way to slow and athletic to play PG in the ACC. He has trouble playing man to man D and can’t drive to the hoop fast enough. Nice young man but it will be interesting to see Kithcart next year. I think we will see an up and down remainder of the ACC games depending on the athletic ability of the opposing PG.
Just sorts of speaks volumes about what some posters see. And which game they're talking about.
Meant Barber, obviously at 4 am I was tired. Give me a break Mr. Perfect. You're the 1 a few seasons ago who was adamant that James was better than Levance and you'd rather have him on the team. Haven't forgotten that gem.
Yeah, the cataract eye test. Robinson has done nothing in 4 years. He is a mediocre point guard along with the vast majority of the recruits. Had enough of him already.
Overall game, I prefer Robinson. Much better defender. Faster, Better A/TO ratio. Robinson guards the opponent's best. Fields never did.
Are you serious? Fields had all the intangibles as a winner. He was clutch, he had that emotion to bring the team together. He was a leader. Who cares about freaking A/TO ratio when all he does is play it safe and pass pass pass all day around the perimeter.
Robinson is supposed to protect us from what happened last night. If nothing else, he is a floor general, and lately he hasn't been successful at that. I am very disappointed with him.
J
JR can't carry Levance's jock as a PG. The next time JR makes a big play will be his first
He had Fella and Young who carried the load. He had Ramon taking a lot of the big shots. After Ramon left, he had Jermaine Dixon to defend the tough match ups. Cook before his injury and Gil Brown after Cook went down. His teamates were much stronger than Robinson has played beside.
If you are the poker player you claim, you know statistically it is about probabilities. There is no "clutch" gene. Fields was physically strong but he played much of his career 20# overweight and might have been much quicker and better had he lost the weight he later did for overseas professional play.
His clutch reputation in this town, much like Bill Mazeroski, stems from one big play that won a big game. He was a nice player and a tough guy. But, he was physically limited too. With this team, J Rob is better. With the 2009 team, I think JRob is better, too.
James has made big plays.
Which is why memories are faulty and nostalgia is a poor marker.
I REALLY liked Levance, a lot, too. But, he was likewise flawed.
The difference is the team around Levance was MUCh better than the team around James..so plenty people are having problems isolating the play of the players.
Let's do it this way:
Player A: Career avg: 9.5 PPG, 4.9 APG, Shot 41% from the field and 34.6% from 3. FT % 71.5%. A/TO ratio 5.56, 3 RPG, 0.9 Steals per game.
Player B Career avg: 7.5 PPG, 4.4 APG, Shot 38 % from the field and 32.4% from 3. FT % 80.4% A/TO Ratio 3.52 2.9 RPG, 1.2 Steals per game.
The difference is that Robinson pads his stats against the OOC and struggles in conference play. Can't even imagine JR making the shot against Duke at the garden or making the key plays that Levance's did in the ncaas against Xavier which essentially won that game. People who trot out selective stats to prove a point have small minds.
Nothing selective about my stats. It was a pretty comprehensive list.
And I'd say on Player A was better to me...but, not substantially.
Last year James put up double digit scoring efforts against 3 ranked teams. 12 against UNC, 15 against a top 10 Notre Dame team, and 16 against #10 Louisville.
19 against UNC in the ACC tournament the year before...
I remember him converting a 4 point play to force overtime against VT in the final seconds.
making the winning shot against #8 ranked notre dame last year with 7 seconds left.
remember him converting a 4 point play to force overtime against VT in the final seconds.
making the winning shot against #8 ranked notre dame last year with 7 seconds left.
Nice, 2 clutch shots in 4 years. Glad we have him then.
Will you be there when Pitt retires his number?
So, I accept your concession.
He's also made literally dozens of clutch FTs to extend leads or extend games.
My only criticism of JR at any point has been lack of quickness.
He has done everything else JD has asked of him during his career.
His last three games have been horrendous in terms of shooting. I like that he is being more aggressive looking to score, but a stretch like this was bound to happen when he would be ineffective on the offense end.
He has enjoyed some big moments when he has carried the team. But the narrative has been fairly consistent - quicker guards create a problem for him. News flash - quicker guards create a problem for anybody if your guards are a notch or two slower.
He has to put it in the rear view and get ready for Saturday.
He has done everything else JD has asked of him during his career.
His last three games have been horrendous in terms of shooting. I like that he is being more aggressive looking to score, but a stretch like this was bound to happen when he would be ineffective on the offense end.
He has enjoyed some big moments when he has carried the team. But the narrative has been fairly consistent - quicker guards create a problem for him. News flash - quicker guards create a problem for anybody if your guards are a notch or two slower.
He has to put it in the rear view and get ready for Saturday.
Dixon and Biggs were essentially non-factors on offense. Adding Robinson, a 3rd non-scorer, to replace Fields, a scorer, puts Young in a tenuous position. You seem to be implying that Robinson's D will offset the loss of Fields O. Which seems farfetched.
Which games can we attribute Ws solely to Robinson's D? Specifically, his lock-down D on these superior offensive talents that he invariably guards? I can't think of any. Does he shut down Scottie Reynolds? Of course not. He's not that kind of a difference maker on defense, and Fields is not as bad as you suggest.
With regard to the weight issue, that's debatable at best. Would you rather have the slimmed-down version of Blair on the 2009 team? I wouldn't. That extra heft was part of his game. He used it to his advantage. Ditto Fields. Robinson isn't any faster, and Fields was more fluid with the ball. You never saw Fields get bottled up in the lane and have to reverse pivot in the middle of the break like Robinson.
Fields made bigger plays when the stakes were higher. His mentality was totally different; that's your clutch gene. When Ramon was a no-show against MSU, who carried the load? Against Florida, what did Robinson do? Shut anyone down? No, he padded his stats when the game was over.
Both games were loses, so does it really matter. Fields made some significant plays when it mattered just like Ramon before him, and Gibbs & Robinson did after him.
Robinson never had the luxury of having Blair to erase poor shooting nights that Fields had.
This team is flawed, but past teams were also flawed...it easy to remember the the high points of prior year's games & forget the games where they came up short.
Would I like more from this team? The answer would be absolutely yes, but they don't play defense...the entire team not just Robinson.
When the offense is completely clicking, they can compete with any team, but there is no room for error because their opponent will likely shoot near a similar clip. If they have a poor shooting night, they will more than likely lose because they cannot make any stops on defense.
Robinson never had the luxury of having Blair to erase poor shooting nights that Fields had.
This team is flawed, but past teams were also flawed...it easy to remember the the high points of prior year's games & forget the games where they came up short.
Would I like more from this team? The answer would be absolutely yes, but they don't play defense...the entire team not just Robinson.
When the offense is completely clicking, they can compete with any team, but there is no room for error because their opponent will likely shoot near a similar clip. If they have a poor shooting night, they will more than likely lose because they cannot make any stops on defense.
The difference in scoring between Fields and Robinson is about 1.6 ppg. Is that significantly more, given the roles Field and Robinson played for their teams? Not much. And even that is sort of offset by Levance committing an extra halfper game.
Your argument that Fields and Blair needed the extra weight to be effective is beyond specious. Do you think they took off the weight in their pro careers because they wanted to be WORSE?
Look, I like Levance. He was a pugnacious, tough SOB. But, if he had missed the step-back trey against Duke, we're not having this conversation. Like Mazeroski's homer, that made him a near mythological figure.
Neither of us will change the other's opinion on this. But, Pitt survived a stretch when Fields was injured. Does anyone think we'd win many gsmes, if ANY, if Robinson went down for 3 weeks?
Also, the lay-up and and two free throws this year against Notre Dame to preserve our lead. In the ACC tournament against Virginia, he got a steal and a lay-up, and should have had a free throw to tie the game at the end but didn't get the foul call.
EDIT: Three-pointer against Villanova freshmen year to tie the game and send it to overtime.
I have to agree with Harve (I think) on this one in that you are not giving Robinson a fair shake on this one.
Game after game we are playing teams with the Cat Barbers of this world... and game after game James Robinson is drawing the assignment, and this means running around all over the court trying to keep up with the guy.
If you don't think that gets tiring you should try it some time.
In the case of Fields... who I really liked as a player... he had Jermaine Dixon to handle those major defensive assignments.
Also... IMO due to injury... not only had Fields' D become less, his in-game shooting had really fallen off. He was still Mr Big Shot, but if you look at the stats after the game you would see overall poor shooting on the part of Fields, and thus his scoring UNTIL the end of the game was not good. Again, IMO this was due to all the injuries he had but still it was a problem and why we were fighting with teams we SHOULD have beaten easily in that NCAA run.
My complaint with Robinson... if you are not hitting your shot.. .STOP SHOOTING... as opposed to going 3-12 and what not.
The critical thing that we SHOULD be talking about though... is... as Dixon says... 'we need another guard that can defend'. Smith and Jones have been really inconsistent and Wilson is ragged out there. IMO there is nothing Smith can do to get much better as he is constrained by his size. Jones is inconsistent also but does not have the size problem so IMO Dixon should give him the chance at starting at SG. Swim or sink.
Another guard that can defend, would take a lot of pressure off of Robinson.
Game after game we are playing teams with the Cat Barbers of this world... and game after game James Robinson is drawing the assignment, and this means running around all over the court trying to keep up with the guy.
If you don't think that gets tiring you should try it some time.
In the case of Fields... who I really liked as a player... he had Jermaine Dixon to handle those major defensive assignments.
Also... IMO due to injury... not only had Fields' D become less, his in-game shooting had really fallen off. He was still Mr Big Shot, but if you look at the stats after the game you would see overall poor shooting on the part of Fields, and thus his scoring UNTIL the end of the game was not good. Again, IMO this was due to all the injuries he had but still it was a problem and why we were fighting with teams we SHOULD have beaten easily in that NCAA run.
My complaint with Robinson... if you are not hitting your shot.. .STOP SHOOTING... as opposed to going 3-12 and what not.
The critical thing that we SHOULD be talking about though... is... as Dixon says... 'we need another guard that can defend'. Smith and Jones have been really inconsistent and Wilson is ragged out there. IMO there is nothing Smith can do to get much better as he is constrained by his size. Jones is inconsistent also but does not have the size problem so IMO Dixon should give him the chance at starting at SG. Swim or sink.
Another guard that can defend, would take a lot of pressure off of Robinson.
WHAT??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Robinson over Fields? Did I just read what I think I did???????????????????????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Actually, other than the ball handling, Robinson is more like Jermaine Dixon than Levance Fields.
Robinson draws the other teams best offensive player and I would call him a 'good' defender but not a 'great' defender. In other words, a 'B' and that is about what I would rate Jermaine Dixon.
Also, Robinson tends to put up a lot of bricks and Jermaine, at least his senior year, resembled that remark also.
So, other than the ball handling, pretty similar between the two.
Robinson draws the other teams best offensive player and I would call him a 'good' defender but not a 'great' defender. In other words, a 'B' and that is about what I would rate Jermaine Dixon.
Also, Robinson tends to put up a lot of bricks and Jermaine, at least his senior year, resembled that remark also.
So, other than the ball handling, pretty similar between the two.
Another game - We were down very late against Oakland at the Pete, and JR almost single handedly brought us back to win at the end. I was about to leave and then rushed back to my seats.
