Should Coach Narduzzi be criticized for lack of QB development while at Pitt?

[HailToPitt725]

In my opinion, Coach Narduzzi is one of the best coaches in the P5 at finding “diamonds in the rough” and developing two and three-star prospects into All-ACC players and NFL draft picks. However, does he deserve criticism for the lack of quarterback development while at Pitt?

First, here’s, the season-by-season breakdown of starting QBs since he arrived in 2015:

2015: Chad Voytik, replaced by Nate Peterman (transfer)
2016: Nate Peterman (transfer)
2017: Max Browne (transfer), replaced by Ben DiNucci (left program) and Kenny Pickett
2018: Kenny Pickett
2019: Kenny Pickett
2020: Kenny Pickett
2021: Kenny Pickett
2022: Kedon Slovis (transfer)
2023: likely Phil Jurkovec or Christian Villeaux (transfers)

Meanwhile, the QBs recruited by Narduzzi in his nine seasons at Pitt:

2015: 3* Ben DiNucci; transferred out, eventually made NFL
2016: 4* Thomas MacVittie; transferred out, never became starting QB
2017: 3* Kenny Pickett; Heisman finalist and 1st round pick
2018: 3* Nick Patti; serviceable backup
2019: 3* Davis Beville; transferred out
2020: Transfer Joey Yellen; backup
2021: 3* Nate Yarnell; TBD/recruited over
2022: Transfer Kedon Slovis; struggled, transferred out
2023: 3* Ty Diffenbach, transfers Phil Jurkovec and Christian Villeaux; TBD

Of Narduzzi’s nine seasons, 4-4 1/2 of them have featured QB play that had the majority of snaps taken by transfer QBs. Meanwhile, three (four counting Slovis) of the QBs Narduzzi has recruited ended up transferring out before their eligibility expired. In all, only one incoming freshman QB he recruited actually developed into a starter; that QB just so happens to be (arguably) the best quarterback in Pitt FB history.

A few questions to consider:

• Is Kenny Pickett enough to remove any criticisms regarding the other QBs recruited since 2015?
• Is this really something that should be placed on Narduzzi, or does it fall more on the plethora of offensive coordinators we’ve had during that time span? Can it just be chalked up to the “luck of the draw”?
• Is it really a bad thing to rely on transfer QBs in today’s world of college football? Is there a difference in bringing in transfers such as Jurkovec or Slovis versus a guy like Villeaux, who has three (?) years of eligibility?

I don’t necessarily hold this opinion, as I could be swayed one way or another. However, I think it could make for good discussion. Interested to hear what the rest of the board thinks.

 

[MJG-90]

Wut? He developed Pickett into the top QB in his draft class. Peterman was also drafted. Sure he was a transfer, but he developed under Narduzzi. Slovis was great, other than being injury prone and a head case. The kid that started in place of Pickett in the bowl game looked well prepared. And the third stringer still almost led you guys to a win. I’m struggling to understand why it matters whether or not a QB is a HS recruit or a transfer. Clearly Narduzzi knows what he’s doing with the position.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Wut? He developed Pickett into the top QB in his draft class. Peterman was also drafted. Sure he was a transfer, but he developed under Narduzzi. Slovis was great, other than being injury prone and a head case. The kid that started in place of Pickett in the bowl game looked well prepared. And the third stringer still almost led you guys to a win. I’m struggling to understand why it matters whether or not a QB is a HS recruit or a transfer. Clearly Narduzzi knows what he’s doing with the position.

Agree except for Slovis being great.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Prep qb recruiting has been pretty bad, going well before the portal kicked in.

I know many are buying into no big deal because of the portal, the transfers have basically been been Peterman, who was not particularly good obe season and very solid the other and mule drool.

Yes, the constant turnover w OCs the first half of his tenure was an issue, but Whipple didn't put a lot into it AND was a cranky old dude.

Cigs has a good eye for talent, works at it and is a good guy.

He has had problems getting and holding his top target his first two classes, but the room is better than it has been in terns of talent and depth this season because he roped in Jurk and CV in one week after he was hired.

 

[wbrpanther]

In my opinion, Coach Narduzzi is one of the best coaches in the P5 at finding “diamonds in the rough” and developing two and three-star prospects into All-ACC players and NFL draft picks. However, does he deserve criticism for the lack of quarterback development while at Pitt?

First, here’s, the season-by-season breakdown of starting QBs since he arrived in 2015:

2015: Chad Voytik, replaced by Nate Peterman (transfer)
2016: Nate Peterman (transfer)
2017: Max Browne (transfer), replaced by Ben DiNucci (left program) and Kenny Pickett
2018: Kenny Pickett
2019: Kenny Pickett
2020: Kenny Pickett
2021: Kenny Pickett
2022: Kedon Slovis (transfer)
2023: likely Phil Jurkovec or Christian Villeaux (transfers)

Meanwhile, the QBs recruited by Narduzzi in his nine seasons at Pitt:

2015: 3* Ben DiNucci; transferred out, eventually made NFL
2016: 4* Thomas MacVittie; transferred out, never became starting QB
2017: 3* Kenny Pickett; Heisman finalist and 1st round pick
2018: 3* Nick Patti; serviceable backup
2019: 3* Davis Beville; transferred out
2020: Transfer Joey Yellen; backup
2021: 3* Nate Yarnell; TBD/recruited over
2022: Transfer Kedon Slovis; struggled, transferred out
2023: 3* Ty Diffenbach, transfers Phil Jurkovec and Christian Villeaux; TBD

Of Narduzzi’s nine seasons, 4-4 1/2 of them have featured QB play that had the majority of snaps taken by transfer QBs. Meanwhile, three (four counting Slovis) of the QBs Narduzzi has recruited ended up transferring out before their eligibility expired. In all, only one incoming freshman QB he recruited actually developed into a starter; that QB just so happens to be (arguably) the best quarterback in Pitt FB history.

A few questions to consider:

• Is Kenny Pickett enough to remove any criticisms regarding the other QBs recruited since 2015?
• Is this really something that should be placed on Narduzzi, or does it fall more on the plethora of offensive coordinators we’ve had during that time span? Can it just be chalked up to the “luck of the draw”?
• Is it really a bad thing to rely on transfer QBs in today’s world of college football? Is there a difference in bringing in transfers such as Jurkovec or Slovis versus a guy like Villeaux, who has three (?) years of eligibility?

I don’t necessarily hold this opinion, as I could be swayed one way or another. However, I think it could make for good discussion. Interested to hear what the rest of the board thinks.

How many head coaches actually develop their QBs? Just askin!

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I was prepared to dismiss this idea initially and say, regardless of how they get here, it only matters that you're putting out a quality starter each year and Narduzzi has done a good job with that.

But the more I think about it, it's possible the OP is onto something. Statistically, I wonder how many "above average" seasons we've gotten from that QB position under Narduzzi. At least two out of eight, but probably no more than four.

I mean, Narduzzi isn't really a QB guy, but I kind of wish we had an offensive version of Patridge sometimes. Look at some of the talent UNC has recruited at the position since Narduzzi has been here. Again, I think we've done at least decently well... but it could be better.

 

[Parkview57]

But the more I think about it, it's possible the OP is onto something.

Isn't the real question: Has Narduzzi provided Pitt with the necessary Offensive Coordinators to get Pitt to the next level? Chaney ,Canada, Watson, Whipple, Cignetti

 

[KennyHeisman8]

I think offensive development has been bad in general. Pickett, addison, izzy, and then what? He had ollison, Conner, and hall, but those were recruits from the previous regime.

Frankly, the Pickett addison combo in 2021 really has kind of covered up the fact that he does a pretty bad job bringing in offensive talent

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Isn't the real question: Has Narduzzi provided Pitt with the necessary Offensive Coordinators to get Pitt to the next level? Chaney ,Canada, Watson, Whipple, Cignetti

Canada was awesome but had a ton of talent. Tough to say how much of whipple was addison/Pickett.

What he does feel like is each time he has an explosive offense and the OC leaves he brings in a guy that is going to reign things in like Watson and cig.

His comments last year about throwing too much under whipple are pretty damn embarrassing

 

[KennyHeisman8]

I was prepared to dismiss this idea initially and say, regardless of how they get here, it only matters that you're putting out a quality starter each year and Narduzzi has done a good job with that.

But the more I think about it, it's possible the OP is onto something. Statistically, I wonder how many "above average" seasons we've gotten from that QB position under Narduzzi. At least two out of eight, but probably no more than four.

I mean, Narduzzi isn't really a QB guy, but I kind of wish we had an offensive version of Patridge sometimes. Look at some of the talent UNC has recruited at the position since Narduzzi has been here. Again, I think we've done at least decently well... but it could be better.

I mean I’ll put it this way…chryst was ripped around here a lot but voytik and tino had pretty good years under him and say Slovis duplicated their stats last year we probably go 9-3 or 10-2

 

[pitt_134]

I think Duz's coaching philosophy leans towards a strong run game (obv) so he doesn't need to find a world beater at QB just somebody serviceable. But in the rare occasion he has talent (KP,NP) he seems to open up the playbook more. All makes sense to me. I do find it hard to believe that Pitt can't regularly recruit and attract top QB talent here. You would figure once every 5 years some kid would want the opportunity to showcase their talent. It's not like Pitt isn't putting kids into the NFL. I think in 5 years we will see a jump in recruiting.

 

[pittmeister]

In my opinion, Coach Narduzzi is one of the best coaches in the P5 at finding “diamonds in the rough” and developing two and three-star prospects into All-ACC players and NFL draft picks. However, does he deserve criticism for the lack of quarterback development while at Pitt?

First, here’s, the season-by-season breakdown of starting QBs since he arrived in 2015:

2015: Chad Voytik, replaced by Nate Peterman (transfer)
2016: Nate Peterman (transfer)
2017: Max Browne (transfer), replaced by Ben DiNucci (left program) and Kenny Pickett
2018: Kenny Pickett
2019: Kenny Pickett
2020: Kenny Pickett
2021: Kenny Pickett
2022: Kedon Slovis (transfer)
2023: likely Phil Jurkovec or Christian Villeaux (transfers)

Meanwhile, the QBs recruited by Narduzzi in his nine seasons at Pitt:

2015: 3* Ben DiNucci; transferred out, eventually made NFL
2016: 4* Thomas MacVittie; transferred out, never became starting QB
2017: 3* Kenny Pickett; Heisman finalist and 1st round pick
2018: 3* Nick Patti; serviceable backup
2019: 3* Davis Beville; transferred out
2020: Transfer Joey Yellen; backup
2021: 3* Nate Yarnell; TBD/recruited over
2022: Transfer Kedon Slovis; struggled, transferred out
2023: 3* Ty Diffenbach, transfers Phil Jurkovec and Christian Villeaux; TBD

Of Narduzzi’s nine seasons, 4-4 1/2 of them have featured QB play that had the majority of snaps taken by transfer QBs. Meanwhile, three (four counting Slovis) of the QBs Narduzzi has recruited ended up transferring out before their eligibility expired. In all, only one incoming freshman QB he recruited actually developed into a starter; that QB just so happens to be (arguably) the best quarterback in Pitt FB history.

A few questions to consider:

• Is Kenny Pickett enough to remove any criticisms regarding the other QBs recruited since 2015?
• Is this really something that should be placed on Narduzzi, or does it fall more on the plethora of offensive coordinators we’ve had during that time span? Can it just be chalked up to the “luck of the draw”?
• Is it really a bad thing to rely on transfer QBs in today’s world of college football? Is there a difference in bringing in transfers such as Jurkovec or Slovis versus a guy like Villeaux, who has three (?) years of eligibility?

I don’t necessarily hold this opinion, as I could be swayed one way or another. However, I think it could make for good discussion. Interested to hear what the rest of the board thinks.

Good question…. However, on the flip side, who should be praised for QB development? I’m sure it’s a short list…

 

[Burgh15]

I think Duz's coaching philosophy leans towards a strong run game (obv) so he doesn't need to find a world beater at QB just somebody serviceable. But in the rare occasion he has talent (KP,NP) he seems to open up the playbook more. All makes sense to me. I do find it hard to believe that Pitt can't regularly recruit and attract top QB talent here. You would figure once every 5 years some kid would want the opportunity to showcase their talent. It's not like Pitt isn't putting kids into the NFL. I think in 5 years we will see a jump in recruiting.

I lean toward this. It just hasn't been a QB friendly offense for the most part. I also won't ignore only 2 great offensive seasons out of 9 (Peterman and Pickett). Teams can either have great rosters that elevate a QB or a great QB that elevates the rest of the roster to reach the next tier. Hopefully Pitt improves in this area, though I'm not sure Jurkovec is that guy unless we see improvements.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I think Duz's coaching philosophy leans towards a strong run game (obv) so he doesn't need to find a world beater at QB just somebody serviceable. But in the rare occasion he has talent (KP,NP) he seems to open up the playbook more. All makes sense to me. I do find it hard to believe that Pitt can't regularly recruit and attract top QB talent here. You would figure once every 5 years some kid would want the opportunity to showcase their talent. It's not like Pitt isn't putting kids into the NFL. I think in 5 years we will see a jump in recruiting.

We never really opened it up with Peterman. He had barely over 300 pass attempts both seasons he was here, which is where Pickett was in 2018, when we were a notorious running team. By contrast, Pickett threw almost 500 times in 2021... although Narduzzi often clashed heads with Whipple over that; it definitely wasn't done at his behest.

Frankly, I think Peterman has been overrated a bit in hindsight. He was a solid cog within a good system. But that was a top 5 offensive line in the country, and that's what steered the ship.

Narduzzi definitely thinks running the ball is the most foolproof formula for winning. I think that's correct, but I also don't know how easy it is to pull off. If it were, everyone would do it because it wouldn't make sense to put the ball in the air if you didn't have to.

 

[MajorMajors]

Duzz should not be trying to identify QB talent - we saw what happened with Slovis. Don’t even look at a QB prospect who can’t run.

I suspect the OC turnover has been part of the problem. Often a new playbook means a tough, wasted year on offense - and the second year the players are all saying how much better they understand what they are supposed to be doing. I think Slovis was a victim of that…

QB recruiting is tough for the teams who are in the 25 to 40 range in the rankings. But even the higher viewed teams can struggle - look at PSU…

Go Pitt.

 

[PittMan 72]

Here’s some food for thought on qb recruiting and what may be effecting and influencing it

Excerpt from linked Athlon article:
“Athlon Sports' own projections, 54 percent of college football's starting quarterbacks next year are likely to be transfers. A higher percentage (43 of 69 counting Notre Dame) of Power 5 programs are slated to start a transfer next fall.”
So according to Athlon 62.3% of P5 starting qb’s will be transfers in 2023. This is a very strong trend.

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/college-footballs-projected-starting-quarterbacks-2023-transfers-reign-supreme-again

 

[pitt_134]

I've also been watching game replays and I couldn't even tell u how many times each game Slovis could ha e easily ran for 5-10 yards.. He rarely kept plays alive with his legs, or scrambled for a 1st down. It was zero threat is what I'm saying.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

I've also been watching game replays and I couldn't even tell u how many times each game Slovis could ha e easily ran for 5-10 yards.. He rarely kept plays alive with his legs, or scrambled for a 1st down. It was zero threat is what I'm saying.

Which makes it even more baffling that we didn’t run more quick hitting routes or RPO’s. I mean one of the main reason Wayne racked up so many yards was because his primary route was a go route

 

[HailToPitt725]

Here’s some food for thought on qb recruiting and what may be effecting and influencing it

Excerpt from linked Athlon article:
“Athlon Sports' own projections, 54 percent of college football's starting quarterbacks next year are likely to be transfers. A higher percentage (43 of 69 counting Notre Dame) of Power 5 programs are slated to start a transfer next fall.”
So according to Athlon 62.3% of P5 starting qb’s will be transfers in 2023. This is a very strong trend.

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/college-footballs-projected-starting-quarterbacks-2023-transfers-reign-supreme-again

Thanks for this- helps puts it into perspective. It looks like that’s just how it goes in P5 conferences nowadays. I’d be interested to find what that % looked like pre-Covid. I feel like we used the portal much more than other schools before it became a thing (Peterman, Browne, even Tom Savage).

 

[PittMan 72]

Thanks for this- helps puts it into perspective. It looks like that’s just how it goes in P5 conferences nowadays. I’d be interested to find what that % looked like pre-Covid. I feel like we used the portal much more than other schools before it became a thing (Peterman, Browne, even Tom Savage).

Portal didn’t exist when those 3 transferred to Pitt. Only grad transfers could leave without being released by the school they wanted to leave. And if they were released and transferred and weren’t grad transfers, they had to sit a year at their new school.

MUCH different now with the Portal.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Thanks for this- helps puts it into perspective. It looks like that’s just how it goes in P5 conferences nowadays. I’d be interested to find what that % looked like pre-Covid. I feel like we used the portal much more than other schools before it became a thing (Peterman, Browne, even Tom Savage).

We’re in that difficult position where we are in a P5 rather than MAC etc. so we need better than 1-2 star prep QBs (that would be happy to sign with us) to be able to compete.

But the most desired 3-4 star (and forget 5 star) that we badly need, don’t seem to want any part of us in HS, and indeed would rather commit to the bigger P5 programs, most of which might have 4 or more QBs of at least equal ranking already on their depth charts. Even if they know it’s highly unlikely they won’t start and star at those schools and would be quickly over recruited, they flip us off and sign with Big Ass U.

(Some of this is increased payola; boosters of the huge programs have wallets so bulbous they’re willing to give sizable cash to any remotely attractive recruit. But with most guys, no doubt mostly it’s high school entitlement and delusions of grandeur)

But these years, it’s no real risk to dream the impossible dream, because they know they can transfer to schools like ours and play immediately(and likely will be promised to start without a competition).

Guys WE don’t happen to use can likewise transfer down to the MAC or other G5 (or FCS like Da Nooch).

So little Wonder so many starters are transfers now.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I've also been watching game replays and I couldn't even tell u how many times each game Slovis could ha e easily ran for 5-10 yards.. He rarely kept plays alive with his legs, or scrambled for a 1st down. It was zero threat is what I'm saying.

Perhaps one of the downsides to the transfer portal. Slovis came here to make NFL throws and enter the draft. He didn't come here to take hits for guys he barely knew and elevate the Pitt name beyond what was congruent with his own interests.

 

[Saboteur II]

No.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

We’re in that difficult position where we are in a P5 rather than MAC etc. so we need better than 1-2 star prep QBs (that would be happy to sign with us) to be able to compete. But the most desired 3-4 star (and forget 5 star) that we badly need, don’t seem to want any part of us in HS, and indeed would rather commit to the bigger P5 programs that might have 4 or more QBs of at least equal ranking on their depth charts. Even if they know it’s highly unlikely they won’t start and star at those schools and would be quickly over recruited.

But these years, it’s no real risk to dream the impossible dream, because they know they can transfer to schools like ours and play immediately(and likely will be promised to start without a competition).

I’ll say it again and again, this isn’t an offense a highly rated qb recruit will rush to play in. Ball control with a primary focus on the run isn’t something a highly rated qb is going to look for. Hell, playing under center is something a lot of these guys rarely do in HS.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Portal didn’t exist when those 3 transferred to Pitt. Only grad transfers could leave without being released by the school they wanted to leave. And if they were released and transferred and weren’t grad transfers, they had to sit a year at their new school.

MUCH different now with the Portal.

Sorry, I just meant transfers. Should’ve used the proper terminology.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

I’ll say it again and again, this isn’t an offense a highly rated qb recruit will rush to play in. Ball control with a primary focus on the run isn’t something a highly rated qb is going to look for. Hell, playing under center is something a lot of these guys rarely do in HS.

Kellen Killsgaard - 4 star
LD Crow - 3 star
Andrew Luck - 4/5 star
Taysom Hill - 4 star
Josh Nunes - 4 star
Brett Nottingham - 4 star
Darren Daniel - 3 star
Dallas Lloyd - 3 star
Kevin Hogan - 3 star
Evan Crower - 3 star
Ryan Burns - 4 star
Keller Chryst - 4 star
Zach Gentry - 4 star
Alex Malzone - 4 star
Brandon Peters - 4 star
Dylan McCaffery - 4 star
Joe Milton - 4 star
Cade McNamara - 4 star
Dan Villari - 3 star
JJ McCarthy - 4 star
Alex Ojri - 3 star
Jayden Denegal - 3 star
Jadyn Davis - 5 star

These are Jim Harbaugh's and some of David Shaw's QB's they've landed since 2007. Playing in a pro-style, ball control, under center/gun offense doesn't seem to keep a ton of highly rated QB's away from them.

 

[cashisking884]

Narduzzi definitely thinks running the ball is the most foolproof formula for winning. I think that's correct, but I also don't know how easy it is to pull off. If it were, everyone would do it because it wouldn't make sense to put the ball in the air if you didn't have to.

Right. Saying “you have to be able to run the ball to win” is saying nothing.

It’s like saying, “the key to winning a national title is a Top 5 recruiting class.”
Great, how many teams can do that?

The most difficult thing to do in college football is to just line up and plow over the other team. There’s very few teams that can recruit at a level that will allow them to do that, and even those teams don’t try due to the lack of success they would have doing it when they play teams that recruit at their level.

 

[cashisking884]

Good question…. However, on the flip side, who should be praised for QB development? I’m sure it’s a short list…

I think this is probably right.

It’s more about offensive system that minimizes what the QB is being asked to do, and so allows them to have a lot of success.

Dan Mullen didn’t really “develop” QBs in the sense that they were these fundamentally sound QBs that could play in another offense.

Moorehead is regarded as a pretty elite OC, and he struggled to do anything with Nick Fitzgerald or any of Mullen’s QBs after Mullen left for UF, because they weren’t fit to play in any offense but Mullen’s.

You see that a lot with the Veer and Shoot guys. Does anybody think both Brileses and Heupel just have an elite eye for QBs where they just constantly hit with them or are able to constantly develop whatever trash you give them?
No. They just have the most perfect college offense that even trash QBs can light up college football in.

 

[thebadby2]

How many head coaches actually develop their QBs? Just askin!

And then there's that small detail......

The man literally doesn't put so much as a finger on his offense. It's entirely the OC's responsibility. Narduzzi didn't even know who Nate Peterman was until Chaney asked for Dooz's OK to bring him in as a transfer.

 

[thebadby2]

In my opinion, Coach Narduzzi is one of the best coaches in the P5 at finding “diamonds in the rough” and developing two and three-star prospects into All-ACC players and NFL draft picks. However, does he deserve criticism for the lack of quarterback development while at Pitt?

First, here’s, the season-by-season breakdown of starting QBs since he arrived in 2015:

2015: Chad Voytik, replaced by Nate Peterman (transfer)
2016: Nate Peterman (transfer)
2017: Max Browne (transfer), replaced by Ben DiNucci (left program) and Kenny Pickett
2018: Kenny Pickett
2019: Kenny Pickett
2020: Kenny Pickett
2021: Kenny Pickett
2022: Kedon Slovis (transfer)
2023: likely Phil Jurkovec or Christian Villeaux (transfers)

Meanwhile, the QBs recruited by Narduzzi in his nine seasons at Pitt:

2015: 3* Ben DiNucci; transferred out, eventually made NFL
2016: 4* Thomas MacVittie; transferred out, never became starting QB
2017: 3* Kenny Pickett; Heisman finalist and 1st round pick
2018: 3* Nick Patti; serviceable backup
2019: 3* Davis Beville; transferred out
2020: Transfer Joey Yellen; backup
2021: 3* Nate Yarnell; TBD/recruited over
2022: Transfer Kedon Slovis; struggled, transferred out
2023: 3* Ty Diffenbach, transfers Phil Jurkovec and Christian Villeaux; TBD

Of Narduzzi’s nine seasons, 4-4 1/2 of them have featured QB play that had the majority of snaps taken by transfer QBs. Meanwhile, three (four counting Slovis) of the QBs Narduzzi has recruited ended up transferring out before their eligibility expired. In all, only one incoming freshman QB he recruited actually developed into a starter; that QB just so happens to be (arguably) the best quarterback in Pitt FB history.

A few questions to consider:

• Is Kenny Pickett enough to remove any criticisms regarding the other QBs recruited since 2015?
• Is this really something that should be placed on Narduzzi, or does it fall more on the plethora of offensive coordinators we’ve had during that time span? Can it just be chalked up to the “luck of the draw”?
• Is it really a bad thing to rely on transfer QBs in today’s world of college football? Is there a difference in bringing in transfers such as Jurkovec or Slovis versus a guy like Villeaux, who has three (?) years of eligibility?

I don’t necessarily hold this opinion, as I could be swayed one way or another. However, I think it could make for good discussion. Interested to hear what the rest of the board thinks.

Pitt has struggled to recruit prep QBs since Wanny left--and before WLAT, since the Gottfired days. This is not a Narduzzi problem.

The revolving door of OCs has absoutely been an issue. Narduzzi is hands off with the offense, so his OC is critical. There is not continuity of the playbook when he changes OCs, as there is at programs where the HS is an offensive guy who has his hands on the offense. This is not unique, it's the way many programs are--but it can lead to a lot of unfamiliarity for the players.

 

[thebadby2]

Canada was awesome but had a ton of talent. Tough to say how much of whipple was addison/Pickett.

What he does feel like is each time he has an explosive offense and the OC leaves he brings in a guy that is going to reign things in like Watson and cig.

His comments last year about throwing too much under whipple are pretty damn embarrassing

For the most part Canada had about the same talent level Pitt has typically had over most of the past 25 years. The one major exception is Canada had a historically good OL for Pitt--and he was smart enough to know exactly what to do with it.

Canada made a lot of the skill guys look a lot better than they really were. See J. Weah, Q. Henderson, G. Aston, S. Orndoff and, yes, even N. Peterman for examples. Other than Peterman who was a middling starting QB, those players were not impact players prior to Canada, and they reverted directly back to their pre-Canada status as soon as he was gone.

As for Peterman. I hope he sends Canada a nice Xmas card every year, because if not for Canada, he never would have sniffed the NFL as a drafted player with a decent rookie contract.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Pitt has struggled to recruit prep QBs since Wanny left--and before WLAT, since the Gottfired days. This is not a Narduzzi problem.

The revolving door of OCs has absoutely been an issue. Narduzzi is hands off with the offense, so his OC is critical. There is not continuity of the playbook when he changes OCs, as there is at programs where the HS is an offensive guy who has his hands on the offense. This is not unique, it's the way many programs are--but it can lead to a lot of unfamiliarity for the players.

This is pretty much where I stand on the issue. Like others have mentioned, I agree that there should be a distinction between Coach Narduzzi and the OCs.

Should Narduzzi then get blame for the revolving door of play callers? I’m not sure. Chaney and Canada were out of his control, Watson was his only really screw-up, and I think Whipple did a fine job although it required Narduzzi to go out of his comfort zone a bit regarding philosophies. The jury is still out of Cignetti, so I was make any conclusions on him yet. I respect that he’s more-or-less remained true to the style of play that he wants to run.

 

[thebadby2]

I think Duz's coaching philosophy leans towards a strong run game (obv) so he doesn't need to find a world beater at QB just somebody serviceable. But in the rare occasion he has talent (KP,NP) he seems to open up the playbook more. All makes sense to me. I do find it hard to believe that Pitt can't regularly recruit and attract top QB talent here. You would figure once every 5 years some kid would want the opportunity to showcase their talent. It's not like Pitt isn't putting kids into the NFL. I think in 5 years we will see a jump in recruiting.

Dooz doesn't open the offensive playbook. He doesn't even touch it. It's all about who the OC is. I think Dooz liked Canada and the balanced offense, that's why he went to bat to get Canada a 7 figure salary offer, and why he acted like a scorned child after Canada walked for even more. Watson was a run heavy guy and that was what we did under him. Whipple was a pass happy guy and that's what we did under him. Watson and Whipple had the same QB but ran completely different types of offenses. The only thing Dooz had to do with that is the OC hiring.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Interesting take on talent under Canada. Canada once said that anything over 3 yards was icing on the cake vs Clemson in 2016.

Personally - I thought Canada had such an interesting take on stressing the defense and he was able to do so with limited talent in the "grand scheme of things." He did a lot with less.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

The most difficult thing to do in college football is to just line up and plow over the other team. There’s very few teams that can recruit at a level that will allow them to do that, and even those teams don’t try due to the lack of success they would have doing it when they play teams that recruit at their level.

I agree and disagree.

The hardest thing for run heavy teams is to be able to match up their offensive strategy with their defensive competence. Years ago, I had a conversation with Jim Hueber who was the OL coach at Wisky and if you remember had a cup of coffee with PITT. He was adamant and I agree that you can run the ball on virtually anyone if you're committed to it and your offense can be successful with it as well. However, he said if you aren't able to stop people, especially in the red zone - it's hard to beat the better teams on your schedule - it doesn't matter if your under center smashmouth or in the gun with 10 personnel.

The academies figured this out a long time ago. Rarely do they fail to put up good rushing #'s regardless of their opponents. The Achilles heal at Army, Navy, and Air Force is the lack of athletes on defense.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

The hardest thing for run heavy teams is to be able to match up their offensive strategy with their defensive competence.

Huh? I'm not sure how the two are related, unless you're making an argument that the defense is getting less practice reps against a good passing scheme (but it doesn't sound like you are). The fact that the service academies rack up running yards but can't stop anybody doesn't exactly prove a correlation. They recruit mostly lesser athletes and are able to catch certain defenses off guard running a system that few do anymore.

If Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, etc. wanted to dedicate themselves to running the ball more this season, I'm sure they would fare well against most teams on their schedule and their defenses would still be stout. But, as we saw with Pitt in 2018, it's tough to score a lot of points running against the more athletic/talented defenses. You can beat up on a lot of teams you're better than that way, but it's tough to beat the ones who are as or more talented than you are (Penn State 51-6; Clemson 42-10; Miami 24-3; Notre Dame 19-14) doing things that way.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Huh? I'm not sure how the two are related, unless you're making an argument that the defense is getting less practice reps against a good passing scheme (but it doesn't sound like you are). The fact that the service academies rack up running yards but can't stop anybody doesn't exactly prove a correlation. They recruit mostly lesser athletes and are able to catch certain defenses off guard running a system that few do anymore.

If Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, etc. wanted to dedicate themselves to running the ball more this season, I'm sure they would fare well against most teams on their schedule and their defenses would still be stout. But, as we saw with Pitt in 2018, it's tough to score a lot of points running against the more athletic/talented defenses. You can beat up on a lot of teams you're better than that way, but it's tough to beat the ones who are as or more talented than you are (Penn State 51-6; Clemson 42-10; Miami 24-3; Notre Dame 19-14) doing things that way.

You forgot UCF

 

[OH Pete]

Hard to develop multiple QB's when you have a great one for 5 of your 9 years at a program.

 

[pittdan77]

I wouldn't say Pitt has done that poorly with QB's over the last ten years. Successfully running a pro-style offense is apparently pretty attractive to the NFL. Honestly, the QB position is very hit and miss. So many of these guys flame out after being big time HS recruits. Look at where the top QB's in the NFL played college. League isn't exactly flooded with blue blood darlings.

 

[cashisking884]

I agree and disagree.

The hardest thing for run heavy teams is to be able to match up their offensive strategy with their defensive competence. Years ago, I had a conversation with Jim Hueber who was the OL coach at Wisky and if you remember had a cup of coffee with PITT. He was adamant and I agree that you can run the ball on virtually anyone if you're committed to it and your offense can be successful with it as well. However, he said if you aren't able to stop people, especially in the red zone - it's hard to beat the better teams on your schedule - it doesn't matter if your under center smashmouth or in the gun with 10 personnel.

The academies figured this out a long time ago. Rarely do they fail to put up good rushing #'s regardless of their opponents. The Achilles heal at Army, Navy, and Air Force is the lack of athletes on defense.

Wisconsin has now completely gone away from the “bunch the box and run over teams” offense. And they weren’t exactly playing in the SEC. Imagine trying to make that against actual Top 15 recruiting classes on a yearly basis? Will Muschamp went through 2 SEC jobs trying to figure that out.

And I don’t think your academies example is entirely correct.
The academies do structure their style of play around shortening the game and not getting into a track meet.

And some of that is because of their defenses. But it’s also because of their offenses. They realize they can’t score at will either.

Now, to your point, that could be an offensive athlete problem too.

It should be noted that the service academies are changing their offenses as well. Army is going to a completely shotgun offense. Navy is going to start phasing it in and will probably be completely shotgun soon.