WTF
His arm wasnt going to fall off if he threw 20 more pitches.
His arm wasnt going to fall off if he threw 20 more pitches.
Skenes had a no-hitter through 7 and they took him out?
- Thread starter Sean Miller Fan
- Start date
Watching the game I felt the same way, but after the game Shelton said he was tired and there was no way he would have lasted 2 more additional innings. Now skenes after the game confirmed he was tired but was that the truth or was that Paul just backing his manager because he's mature enough not to start a controversy?
Ultimately it was an unreal performance and had the brewers not fouled a ton of pitches off in the first few innings he would have continued.
As an aside, I know it's impossible to predict something like this, but if you were forced to bet the house and farm on whether or not he pitches a no hitter in his career, would most people bet yes? I would think so...
Ultimately it was an unreal performance and had the brewers not fouled a ton of pitches off in the first few innings he would have continued.
As an aside, I know it's impossible to predict something like this, but if you were forced to bet the house and farm on whether or not he pitches a no hitter in his career, would most people bet yes? I would think so...
It makes total sense to protect players but little sense to protect them for the Yankees.
I hate the Pirates.
I keep waiting for Skenes to turn on this organization. Might just be paranoia, but I feel like it's coming. Feels like we're a dude making $50,000/year trying to date a famous actress. Once she gets that "normal life" phase out of her system, she's going to want to go mingle with her own ilk.
Won't take long for Skenes to realize this whole thing is just so beneath his pay grade - literally and metaphorically. The rookie contract is what it is, but it goes beyond that.
Won't take long for Skenes to realize this whole thing is just so beneath his pay grade - literally and metaphorically. The rookie contract is what it is, but it goes beyond that.
I was pretty ticked off in the moment, but then quickly realized that all 29 other managers in the majors would have probably played it exactly the same. It is what it is, the game is totally beholden to the analytics nerds and I get it, but we get robbed of all the special moments.
Pirates are a joke……AA club masquerading as a major league team. They play by their own rules like kids in the 60’s playing wiffle ball in the alley….anyone up for using an “imaginary man” on third?
I've been very critical of Shelton in other threads and think the Buccos need to let him go after this season if they want to make it to the next level. I don't like yesterday's decision although I think he's made many worse moves than that. Line-ups/pinch hitters he plugs in, failing to react in critical moments to bad calls, etc.
Also, Skenes threw 6 pitches to get through the 7th inning. Do the analytics factor that in? Why not bring him out for the 8th see what happens? Maybe he gets another really quick inning.
First time in 10 years I have interest in the Pirates thanks to Skenes but this crap happens all the time now. Nothing to see here. The game stopped being about winning a long time ago. Christ.
No, it didn't. If you want to say the game stopped being about Ironmen streaks and no hitters, I'd agree. But winning?
You think the Pirates care about winning? Why don't you make me an analogy of that?
In all honesty, yesterday’s decision probably wasn’t Shelton’s. Doesn’t make it any better.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
There was zero danger to hurting his arm if he at least goes out in the 8th and sees what happens. He might pitch two innings at the all-star game. His next start isn't for another week but skipping him in the rotation hurts nothing. Just a club move to deprive the guy of potential negotiating leverage. He's going to complain of arm pain or a back injury when it gets close to his time to be traded for prospects just to torpedo the return and the club deserves it.
I think Nutting would prefer to win but cares much more about his bottom line (the two are congruent to some extent, obviously). But I certainly don't think the manager and players - as bad as they may be - are trying to lose. Of course they're trying to win.
When does the weekend bender start, Bernie?
At that pitch count anyone who thinks he was going out for the 8th inning hasn't been paying attention to major league baseball and clearly not paying attention to the Pirates. The Pirates have an investment to protect and they're going to take every step to do that.
He's too young in his career to risk any arm issues, irrespective of the situation outside a perfect game.
He's too young in his career to risk any arm issues, irrespective of the situation outside a perfect game.
You just made the list , lol.
You take this board way too seriously, in fact you live on here.
What , like 10 posts per hour ?
Yeah, I'm pretty on the fence about it but lean toward being okay with it. Any time you see someone throw 120 pitches in pursuit of no-hitter, they tend to get bombed their next start. So it must do something to one's arm, even if it's just because guys have become so conditioned to throwing less.
I do think it's odd that 100 seems to be about the max(ish) pitch count most have settled on. Seems a little too perfect, no? Like it couldn't be 80 or 120? Just so happens to be 100 on the dot, ha. Regardless, it is what it is and that's what guys are used to.
But Skenes has to be growing frustrated with the clown lineup and lack of run support. He's too good for this franchise.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Zero risk. He threw 107 pitches the other night.
The one thing to absolutely consider is LSU ran him into the ground with innings pitched. I know it was last year but the pirates do need to view it through the lens of risk/reward.
On the other hand, taking 2 of 3 against the brewers needed to be the priority yesterday
On the other hand, taking 2 of 3 against the brewers needed to be the priority yesterday
If it would have been at the end of 8 I would have been pissed. With 6 more outs to get I wasn't as mad. You are 100 % correct that he could have gone forward without his arm falling off. Especially considering how dominant he was in the 6th and 7th. But that is how it goes in today's game. What screwed Skenes was his high pitch count in the 2nd and 3rd. He has been like a lot of star pitchers. A little off early but when he gets it, look out.
He won't have to realize anything or turn on anybody, because he's the hottest pitching commodity in MLB right now. The Brinks truck will be at his doorstep as soon as he's available. The Pirates would be wise to trade him for a whole bunch of value because they will never be able to pay him what he will command, or at a minimum they;d be very foolish to do so.
I'm headed down to Comerica Park tonight to watch the second hottest pitching commodity in MLB, Tarik Skubal, deal against Ohtani and the Dodgers, the team he may be playing for next month. Pretty sure if Skubal were to be working on a no-no through 7, even with 99 pitches thrown, unless there was something obviously wrong with his arm, AJ Hinch would never even think about taking him out. You can give him his next scheduled start off if it's an issue of resting him, it's not like these teams are chasing a league title, they won't even make the playoffs.
Like the Pirates, the Tigers need so much help across the board, they'd be foolish to use half their payroll on one elite starting pitcher.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Unlikely but if he gets three on 8 pitches he's still well below some of his outings in college.
Yeah, he was on pace to need 129 pitches which was never going to happen. Someone mentioned bringing him out in the 8th and seeing if he could have a low-pitch inning, which is the only reason I'm on the fence about it.
I certainly don't think they were doing it to self-sabotage, as has been suggested.
They shouldn't even think about trading him right now. The only way they'd be getting proper value for him is if they got multiple other guys they wouldn't be able to afford either. With a half-decent lineup, he's damn near an automatic win every 5th game.
Should they trade him before his deal expires? Of course. But not right now.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Oh, it's the Pirates. There are always reasons to self-sabotage so you don't have to give off the perception you're unnecessarily cheap. Not saying that is absolutely the case here but it's not unfair to consider.
There's no such thing as zero risk - so what does 107 pitches get you? You think he can complete the game in 20 pitches?
Haha, I don't think the manager or anyone else is actively trying not to win. If you want to tell me Nutting doesn't prioritize winning enough, then we absolutely agree. I was referring to the other guy's theory, not your theory that they were trying to prevent the no-no so as to not have to pay him more. Although I don't know about that one, either. Would a no-hitter now really increase his arbitration value that much in a few years?
You don't think the Brewers understood that if they just take pitches and run his pitch count up Skenes would be out within 8 pitches? C'mon man...they get paid as well.
Justin Verlander threw his last no-no when he was almost 37 years old. 120 pitches. At 100 pitches AJ Hinch started to come out of the dugout and Verlander looked at him and mouthed don't even think about it. Velocity kept getting higher as he got closer to the finish line because he was amped up. 102-103 mph fastballs.
Skenes could have and should have finished that one barring something going on with his arm or mechanics.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
A pitcher near the tail end of an illustrious career took a risk. That's not really comparable to a rookie pitcher being hailed as the possibly the best pitcher in baseball. Remember how dominant Strasburg was pitching his rookie season? He ended up with TJ surgery that same year after tearing his UCL and lost an entire year of pitching and lost almost 3mph on his fastball.
I believe the MLB is up to 22 injuries requiring Tommy John surgeries already this year before All Star Break, not including those that are injured and awaiting confirmation.
Yeah I want an elite starting pitcher for as long as, or least close to as long, as we can possibly have him ... I still have the bad memories of getting Arrieta'd and Bumgarner'd.
How can you make that argument the day after the Pirates pulled Skenes then got smoked for 7 runs in the final two innings?
Oh sorry, I read it wrong. Turns out they brought in 2 fresh pitchers that struck out 4 and gave up 0 runs to win the game.
Doesn't matter if he was tired. Have him go throw underhand the last 2 innings if his arm was so so tired. Aw, musta really been hurting. Soon as he gives up a hit, take him out. He could go throw underhand and luck out and they hit some line drive or fly ball outs. A lot of hitting is pure luck in terms of hitting it where they aint.
There is no reason for the Pirates to protect his arm. He will be a Yankee in 5 years.
Well there is the whole part about trying to win a game, no? I could be wrong, though, as I've learned from this thread that winning doesn't matter.
That would be a good idea if it was 10-0 instead of 1-0.
Pitching underhand in a 1 run game that the bucs absolutely had to have might not be a wise idea.
Show him and Livvy those homes on Justabout but they'll probably get a home in Wexford, Pine, Cranberry, or Sewickley. Heard Russell Wilson bought a home in Sewickley.
